i have an idea. have to post something about it, so i won't forget, but going to work out the details before i say anything substantial.
i think i know how to do flying melee perfectly. as in, fliers can melee other fliers, and will get a super advantage vs ground opponents; fly in, melee and fly away. all using the ingame system as is.
i'm super exhausted, which is probably where the epiphany came from. xanadu, anyone?
please, someone reply here, so it will remind me tonight when i click on 'show new replies to posts'.
Sounds like a great idea... Good luck.
- CrimsonQuill
Do tell.
*Flies in and bumps this thread, without landing first, and then flies away*
Paging Mr Bearded...
must... see... flying... melee... *dies*
Wouldn't it be horrible if it turns out that bearded was working on a "Little Mermaid" mesh all this time (see the thread title!)?
awww now I have "Under the Sea" stuck in my head :thumbdown:
.... The subject is interesting.
Finally the greatest problem in FF may have been solved :)
thanks guys, i appreciate the support. i'm pretty sure this is going to work. i'll start on it now, and by morning i will know.
it works. but only in very specific conditions. here's what i did. i renamed flying to running, and hovering to melee idle. then i used max to move the new running and melee idle up several units.
when fighting a flying opponent this way, he will fly up to you, hover and swoop down for melee hits.
if you are fighting him with a wieldable weapon, it is perfect. when he is up high, you can't hit him. when he swoops down for an attack on you, you can smack him.
but, when you use your melee powers, you can hit him if he is near you. it seems that the bounding box is the reason. with wieldable weapons, the box comes into play, you have to hit the box to hit the character. with melee powers, you have to be able to hit the...heck, i dunno...selection circle?
using the flying for running method, the flying character can now do all ground based things, like pick up wieldables and throwables.
i've been reading the docs, and i can't see why melee doesn't work with the bounding box correctly.
wieldables can hit actual flying characters anyway, if they are low enough, so this doesn't solve anything.
how to make melee powers that function just like wieldables?
edit update: ranged powers seem to react to the bounding box correctly.
Just to clarify, bearded:
You renamed the fly and hover animations to run and melee_idle, respectively. So, the character will never run now? He'll always be flying everywhere?
You increased the height of the the run and melee_idle animations? So the character will never be in a "Landed" state, except when attacking with melee?
While it wouldn't take near as much time to edit KFs for this method compared to the method I found, I still think the method I discovered functions better. Did you see this?:
http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=41583.0
QuoteYou renamed the fly and hover animations to run and melee_idle, respectively. So, the character will never run now? He'll always be flying everywhere?
yes. why run when you can fly? of course it's not true flight, so you don't get the ingame flight bonuses. i got the idea from some of the meshes that seem to hover all the time, like one of the storm meshes.
QuoteYou increased the height of the the run and melee_idle animations? So the character will never be in a "Landed" state, except when attacking with melee?
not quite, the regular idle is grounded. and so is walk. so, custom walk commands would be non flight, as well as when the character is in mental blank state. what happens is you are landed, when a bad guy is detected, you immediately hover. the melee attacks should be the same ones you use, based on hover, but lower, so the character swoops down.
unfortunately, it's not just editing keyframes, as that results in the flight animation being at ground level.
i did see yours, it's what got me thinking about it.
i just can't figure out why the melee's work when you can't reach the character. it's only melee that does this, everything else in the game totally supports my idea. it just occurred to me, when 2 fliers would melee each other, they would swoop down also. maybe there should 2 melee's for each flier, ground target and other flier. this would be tough for the ai's to figure out tho...
assuming i can work around the melee bounding box block.
also, if i get it all working, this throws cp cost for flight.
i note that ffvttr considers the bounding box more important. maybe this would work better in ffvttr. what have ppl discovered about melee and the boxes?
i think i know why the ranged attacks look for the bounding box. it's because the projectile is actually an object isn't it?
somehow must make melee attacks be objects, so they need to contact bounding box verts. if we could do this, then we wouldn't need my silly keyframe renaming. wieldables track height of target. if in range, they smack. there must be a way to transfer melee powers to wieldable objects. with weapon master attribute, a gun is attached to the characters hand. is the gun an fx, or an actual ingame object? does the custom shoot power come from the gun or the character?
Quote from: bearded on May 15, 2007, 04:39:27 AM
yes. why run when you can fly? of course it's not true flight, so you don't get the ingame flight bonuses. i got the idea from some of the meshes that seem to hover all the time, like one of the storm meshes.
Yes, but not all characters fly everywhere. Take for instance Wonderman and Northstar. Wonderman is just as likely (if not more likely) to engage melee standing on the ground where Northstar would probably be zipping everywhere, and attack from the air. This doesn't seem to really apply universally to all fliers.
Quote from: bearded on May 15, 2007, 04:39:27 AM
not quite, the regular idle is grounded. and so is walk. so, custom walk commands would be non flight, as well as when the character is in mental blank state. what happens is you are landed, when a bad guy is detected, you immediately hover. the melee attacks should be the same ones you use, based on hover, but lower, so the character swoops down.
Hmm. This sounds pretty cool. I'll have to test it out.
Quote from: bearded on May 15, 2007, 04:39:27 AM
unfortunately, it's not just editing keyframes, as that results in the flight animation being at ground level.
i did see yours, it's what got me thinking about it.
i just can't figure out why the melee's work when you can't reach the character. it's only melee that does this, everything else in the game totally supports my idea. it just occurred to me, when 2 fliers would melee each other, they would swoop down also. maybe there should 2 melee's for each flier, ground target and other flier. this would be tough for the ai's to figure out tho...
Yes, I was wondering how this would work with flier vs. flier. I've begun to edit the flying_melee animations I've been doing to fly a bit more forward and at less of an angle. I have them flying more straight, rather than down, so it looks better whether they're attacking someone on the ground or in the air. Also, using a trick Renegade showed me, I've been making the flying_melee animation have both a contact and a leave_hand so the animation can be used as either a melee attack or a ranged. As for the AI, try something like this to get them to attack correctly:
'TLand(subtype="not flying")',
'TAirSuperiority(time=0.88,subtype="flying")',
"TMelee('flying melee',time=2.83,subtype='flying',situation='flying')",
"TMelee('flying melee',time=2.83,subtype='not flying',situation='not flying')",
'TMoveTo(mindist='melee',time=0.88,subtype="flying")',I'm going to try this out and see how it works and get back to you.
One idea I had and just tried was to physique the bounding box to to custom bones and then animate these to move up during melees, and down during flight, so the bounding box would get bigger/taller then return to normal size. The idea being that a bigger bounding box would somehow allow air/ground ground/air melee contact.
Easy enough to implement in Max and export, it turns out to be not much use in game. A flyer still has to land to melee a walker, and still has to be landed to be melee'd by a walker. You still need to set up powers that work around the game's "flyers cannot melee/be melee'd" rules.
The best solution is still the ranged projectile using an altered melee animation with leave hand replacing contact, as far as I can see at the moment.
That or someone altering the game's executable...
could custom ai be used to trigger powers based on targets height? if so, you could use my fake flying to determind if an ai would even attack at all. it sounds likely, as ai's don't attack characters on buildings.
there must be some data based on the characters ground level. the bottom of the character is x,y,z = 0, so no matter where you put the mesh, the x,y,z still is zero, and targetable by melee.
does target's height start at x,y,z or at the bounding box? could you target the bounding box's height?
i've discovered, with fake flight, a player can not pick up a trash bin if he is in melee_idle/hover mode. if he is in idle on the ground he can pick it up.
if there were a way to generate an object, invisible or even sim it with an fx, then check to see if the object is in line with the target, and if not cancel the melee, or somehow make sure it misses...
what if every character were spawned with an invisible object attached to them? woa, something just him me! delete the selection box on the character, but the invisible objects selection box is big! the invisible object would have the same material as the character, and damage done to it would be transferred to the character!
change the ai to attack the invisible objects!
it occurs to me this would work for straight damage, even resistances, and characters shields would still block, but is there a way to transfer knockback and stun?
I tried it out and found a few things (BTW, I used the male_basic mesh w/ Gren's male_swimmer KFs):
1.) The character would start the mission in his new melee_idle animation even though there were no enemies anywhere near him. So he always began hovering. I tested this in the M25 Team Mode.
2.)When I chose to fly, because I now had no fly animation, he'd use the idle animation while flying. (This is simple to fix but time-consuming using Nifskope. Just make a copy of the fly animation for fly and use the original fly for run.)
3.)While flying, I couldn't use the melee attack, it was greyed out. I had to land, then use the melee. Of course, this is obvious, but I'm already used to using my method, which you don't need to land before attacking.
I have no clue when it comes to working with bounding boxes and such, probably because it's something you can only play around with in Max, which I don't have. I hope a solution can come out of going in that direction because I'd really like to see a "perfect" aerial melee!
I have been thinking a bit about this.
What we want:
flyers can hit(ie melee) each other in the air, can hit grounded targets without landing. Groundlings(ie heroes on the ground) can hit each other, and hit flyers when they are close enough (ie within 2-10 feet?).
What we have in the game:
flyers cannot hit flyers. They have to land to hit groundlings. Groundlings can hit each other, and hit flyers only when the "melee airborn" dinosaur flag is active.
So it seems like the game does the equivalent of an "if x then y" when a character flies, and says "if flying, disable the melee mechanism (both as hitter, and hitee) ".
Now, wouldn't the best solution be to find the bit of code (in the games executable most likely) that checks for flying and disables the melee mechanisms, and disable it?
As long as only that part of the flying code was affected, you could only be melee'd whilst flying when close enough (as with normal ground-ground melee) and would be out of range of melee the rest of the time. Flyers could melee each other when close enough, or do air-ground melees when close enough.
It seems to me that since you can only melee when in close proximity anyway, that flyers who are above that limit would be safe from melee, so would have the advantage, but would not be untouchable.
I'm going to poke about in the exe and see if I can identify the bit that says "flying=no melees" and break it...I mean turn it off...
I'll report back when I know more..
Quote1.) The character would start the mission in his new melee_idle animation even though there were no enemies anywhere near him. So he always began hovering. I tested this in the M25 Team Mode.
that sounds like the 'war' command is in effect. try it with the 'peace' command.
Quote2.)When I chose to fly, because I now had no fly animation, he'd use the idle animation while flying. (This is simple to fix but time-consuming using Nifskope. Just make a copy of the fly animation for fly and use the original fly for run.)
yes, my fake flying is supposed to be a replacement for true flight. fake flight, or below the radar flight would be for arial melee.
to compensate for no running, and immediate hover type things, the thing to do would be to set the ai to wander goal. then the character would walk around.
another interesting thing i've noticed. when a ground character with a wieldable left clicks on a flier, if they are to high, out of range, the grounder will not approach the flier. if they are low enough, the grounder will follow the flier until he hits him, or he is out of range.
the key to this is smackdown, or rather, objects. objects are apparently smarter than characters and can track melee-able opponents. there must be some way to transfer an objects tracking to a character type.
tommyboy, are you sure it's not stashed in a python somewhere? what is ff.py? i can't find it.
i opened the exe with a hexer, and i think you are very very correct. i found a lot of interesting things, just by searchign for the string fly, i'm sure you'll run across all the states i found. i have no clue how to change things.
there seems to be the list we want to change under the heading 'Melee_Controller'.
Quote from: bearded on May 15, 2007, 08:39:20 AM
tommyboy, are you sure it's not stashed in a python somewhere? what is ff.py? i can't find it.
i opened the exe with a hexer, and i think you are very very correct. i found a lot of interesting things, just by searchign for the string fly, i'm sure you'll run across all the states i found. i have no clue how to change things.
there seems to be the list we want to change under the heading 'Melee_Controller'.
Yep, for those who've never opened the EXE in a hex editor, I find the following particularly interesting:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/airmelee1.jpg)
Note the "melee attack on a flying character", "airborn melee attack on a grounded character" etc. The stuff is in there, but I am no programmer, so it's a bit like trying to fix a car by randomly hitting engine parts with a hammer....
i've got an idea for how we could start figuring this monster out. remember back in the day, when speeding bullet worked while flying? then in the patch they changed that.
if we open an old exe and the patched one, and compare the difference, maybe we could reactivate the flying speeding bullet. this could tell us how to activate the other things.
I should point out that I am looking at the FFV3R exe NOT the FF one, but much of it is very similar to the FF exe when it comes to this stuff..
FFV3R has the "sonic boom" power, which is a sort of aerial speeding bullet....
Hmmm...I wonder if this is part of what I'm looking for...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/airmelee2.jpg)
that has got to be it. there has to be a number it references.
i noticed that right after melee_control there is another melee_control that has a series of numbers.
what is the heading under what you found?
after the heading melee control there are 16 categories. after the second heading melee control there are 16 series of 0's. after each series there are 5 numbers.
:popcorn :popcorn2
Nice find TommyBoy! This is looking good guys! :thumbup:
that last bit of code is not in :ff: at all.
i'm wondering if we even manage to activate melee fighting if we would still have the same range problem i had with my fake flight. so not only do we have to make valid targets, we also somehow have to activate the range finder that is used in the wield valid target code.
for some reason valid targets register with melee regardless of height. but that's not entirely true, is it? becuase if a target is on a rooftop, they are not valid.
Quote from: bearded on May 15, 2007, 11:11:35 AM
that last bit of code is not in :ff: at all.
i'm wondering if we even manage to activate melee fighting if we would still have the same range problem i had with my fake flight. so not only do we have to make valid targets, we also somehow have to activate the range finder that is used in the wield valid target code.
for some reason valid targets register with melee regardless of height. but that's not entirely true, is it? becuase if a target is on a rooftop, they are not valid.
I think that the "weild object" type attacks use an "arc" or "area" type attack, and most melees don't. This may be one reason why they catch fliers when normal melees don't.
As for range, my thinking is that there is already range finding code built into the standard ground-ground melee (ie nobody swings till they are next to the target character, and if they aren't, they run to them then swing), so if we can convince the melee_controller that flying characters are the same as grounded ones, that range finding code will still work. So if character A is on the ground and character B is flying on a rooftop right next to A, neither will be able to hit the other till one moves to the level of the other.
Of course this is pure speculation on my part at the moment, but it makes sense to me.
Well, no joy yet.
I just put strings of zeros in place of some of the references, saved the exe and ran the game, and was surprised to find nothing had changed. I thought at the very least I would have broken the game by doing this so it would CTD, but no.
I'll hack at it some more.... :P
i wont' be able to look at it for hours, but when i do, i'm going to compare the changes in the speeding bullet power in the different patches.
assuming the code is similiar in :ff: and :ffvstr: (and i'm guessing they probably are even the exact same code, in spots), that will give us a starting point for what sort of numbers to look for, for other stuff.
Quote from: tommyboy on May 15, 2007, 09:31:02 AM
Hmmm...I wonder if this is part of what I'm looking for...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/airmelee2.jpg)
Hmm... Since the phrases used wouldn't have any meaning in machine code, it doesn't surprise me that changing them has no effect (though it wouldn't have surprised me if there had been some effect, either). Have you tried changing the part of the code just before or just after the words, where the .... show up? It strikes me that that might have some effect... On the other hand, what you found could be some sort of index or something, and for all we know may not even be implemented in the game as we have it. Have you tried searching more, to see if the same phrases appear anywhere else?
Edit: For that matter, is it possible that the game's reading the .exe from the disk or something, rather than the changed version?
Quote from: Alaric on May 15, 2007, 05:51:14 PM
Hmm... Since the phrases used wouldn't have any meaning in machine code, it doesn't surprise me that changing them has no effect (though it wouldn't have surprised me if there had been some effect, either). Have you tried changing the part of the code just before or just after the words, where the .... show up? It strikes me that that might have some effect... On the other hand, what you found could be some sort of index or something, and for all we know may not even be implemented in the game as we have it. Have you tried searching more, to see if the same phrases appear anywhere else?
Edit: For that matter, is it possible that the game's reading the .exe from the disk or something, rather than the changed version?
Yes what you say makes sense.
The bit I edited is actually not text, but rather what seems to be an array, or perhaps a list of "jump to"s that you can see above the text in my first quoted code thingy.
Those seemed to correspond to this:
[spoiler]
SSZ0081C7B4_CMeleeController:
db 'CMeleeController',0
Align 4
L0081C7C8:
dd L0051B040
dd L0051B0B0
dd L0051B010
dd L005DFFB0
dd L0051B120
dd L0051B4B0
dd L0051B3A0
dd L0051AF60
dd SUB_L00401000
dd L0051BDB0
dd L0040F6B0
dd L0051BA60
dd L0051AFF0
dd L0051AFC0
dd L006A1FD0
dd L0040F6B0
dd SUB_L006A1FF0
dd L0051B970
dd L0051B460
dd SUB_L00554AC0
dd SUB_L0070FDA0
dd SUB_L00482060
SSZ0081C820_melee_target_is_dead:
db 'melee target is dead',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C838_target_gone_invisible_or_dim_shi:
db 'target gone invisible or dim shifted',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C860_frozen_friend_freed:
db 'frozen friend freed',0
SSZ0081C874_melee_attack_on_a_flying_charact:
db 'melee attack on a flying character',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C898_airborn_melee_attack_on_a_ground:
db 'airborn melee attack on a grounded character',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C8C8_melee_attack_while_flying:
db 'melee attack while flying',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C8E4_melee_target__s_is_out_of_2d_sce:
db 'melee target %s is out of 2d scene extents',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C910_Already_running_requested_melee_:
db 'Already running requested melee attack, sinking trigger',0
SSZ0081C948_Attacking_target__s__s_:
db 'Attacking target %s(%s)',0
SSZ0081C960_ERROR__Melee_Power__s_has_range_:
db 'ERROR: Melee Power %s has range 0',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C984_CMeleeController__start__:
db 'CMeleeController::start()',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C9A0_power_ref___is_not_valid:
db 'power ref # is not valid',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C9BC_closed_range__resumed_normal_att:
db 'closed range, resumed normal attack',0
SSZ0081C9E0_target_ready_to_interogate:
db 'target ready to interogate',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C9FC_Melee_recharging__range_already_:
db 'Melee recharging, range already closed',0
Align 4
SSZ0081CA24_Waiting_for_melee_recharge__clos:
db 'Waiting for melee recharge, closing range',0
Align 4
SSZ0081CA50_Failed_to_reach_target:
db 'Failed to reach target',0
Align 4
SSZ0081CA68_Reached_target__Attacking:
db 'Reached target, Attacking',0
Align 4
L0081CA84:
dd 3DCCCCCDh
[/spoiler]
(taken from a disassembly of the exe), and that seems to either point to or load values from some other subroutines elsewhere.
I'd probably get better results from editing the disassembly, but 1. I'm a newb/feeb at this, 2. It's 40Mb long, 3. I'm not entirely sure how to re-assemble it in a manner that works, 4. It's a LOT quicker and easier to edit in a hex editor than to disasemble, edit, reassemble.
I think maybe I'm not the best person to be doing this, but it's one of those "but nobody else is" deals at the moment...
EDIT: and the exe I'm hacking at is a "cracked" no-cd one as I can't be bothered swapping CDs in and out all the time. So I know IT is whats running, and not some other file on the CD.
:popcorn2
you know fiddling with the .exe is illegal, right?
let's just hope we don't get closed down...
Quote from: Lunarman on May 15, 2007, 10:14:52 PM
:popcorn2
you know fiddling with the .exe is illegal, right?
Why, no, that hadn't occurred to me.
But now that you have gone to the trouble to publicly point that out, I'll stop doing it, along with stopping any meshing, skinning or Modding of any trademarked or copyrighted characters, as that too may well constitute a breach of some law or other.
Thanks
so much for so usefully, and so publicly, pointing that out to me.
It's
incredibly helpful that you have done so.
So that's the end of that then.
Move along people, nothing to see here anymore...
I'm sorry about that Tboy. I didn't intend to be threatening or attacking you. I hope you can forgive me :)
Back to Flying melee!
I do think this could actually work! and be a great addition to the game at that :)
LOL, come one guys, let's keep this friendly. Tommy, Bearded, you have my rapt attention on this. I imagine that the entire community is waiting with baited breath. I'm afraid that I can barely follow your thoughts here, so I doubt I can be of much help, but just know that we're all cheering you on!
Just a random thought, you'd think that if it was a (comparatively) simple change of code to get workable flying melee Irrational would have done it for the sequel, huh? Then again, you'd think they'd have enough sense to NOT remove functionality from the sequel by hamstringing the energy system.....but I digress. Good luck guys!
Not to worry Lunarman, I just would prefer a heads up privately for such matters in future.
Hopefully you caught that my reply was sarcastic rather than angry, so no hard feelings?
Back on topic I just haven't the time to do much on this right now. I desperately need to finish up the first episode of the LSH Mod before i plunge into a new project. Which is not to say I wont look into it further, just that it may take a while..
Interesing code segments in the executable. I did mess around with that file a few times (vainly, I'm no hacker) but had never seen these. FWIW, I'm pretty certain these are error/status message fired by an event. This measn we'd need to find the event itself in the code... or how to display these messages in-game (which would be amazing, but is probably impossible since someone decided these messages shouldn't be available with the debugging commands (MLOG(), for example) available with the shipping game... :angry: )
Anybody knows a good .exe hacker? :P
I'm not sure if this is any use?
http://filext.com/info/archive/index.php/t-2269.html
It mentions some editors, specificly non-hex editors. It may help to address the problem from a different angle using these.
But then again the functionality might be the same still.
i've discovered in every list of special powers, like sprint, bullet, and teleport self, after the series of 0's there is a designator. speeding bullet is '1e', energize is '1f' and so on.
i think '1e' is used as a reference for subroutines that speeding bullet would apply to. i think by changing 1e in some circumstances would be all you would need to do to reactivate speeding bullet in flight. still working on it.
if i'm right, and the programmers used this style of referencing, then all we have to do is find the designator for melee powers and flag it for the flying header.
i'm going to try and flag speeding bullet this way.
oh, and the reason the coders may have never included arial melee is becuase of the headache of remaking all the custom keyframes that would be necessary.
I have found the jump tables that reference the dialogue tables we found before. the jump tables apparently control each function.
I can do this. I want some dialogue as to whether I should. Where does it end being an acceptable mod? what if i created an executable that accesses the correct functions inside the fforce.exe?
The question is not whether you should but if you can and if it works should you distribute either the file or the info on what to edit.
I say prove the concept first, then discuss the ethics of distribution.
i got a program that locates strings and then shows you what references them.
0x2d1f1c - 36 : char[] string_1388 = melee attack on a flying character
goto block_fn_5162
block_fn_5162 has a bunch of code that it does.
i think if we redirect it to
0x2d1d8c - 24 : char[] string_1378 = Attacking target %s(%s)
0x596f6 - 0x296 block_fn_5154()
so, i think 5162 is code for 'no target available', and 5154 is code for 'targetable'.
i'll experiment some more tonight.
I agree with Tommy.. If we are this close to figuring out how to make this huge breakthu then it should be done and celebrated before we work out the details of how it will effect modding.
- CrimsonQuill
Just a quick postscript.
I went back to working on the LSH Mod, forgetting that I'd hacked the EXE.
Then I wondered why it kept CTDing everytime there was a fight.
Evidently my removal of that code DID do something, just not what I wanted.
Quote from: bearded on May 17, 2007, 10:52:07 AM
0x2d1f1c - 36 : char[] string_1388 = melee attack on a flying character
goto block_fn_5162
block_fn_5162 has a bunch of code that it does.
i think if we redirect it to
0x2d1d8c - 24 : char[] string_1378 = Attacking target %s(%s)
0x596f6 - 0x296 block_fn_5154()
so, i think 5162 is code for 'no target available', and 5154 is code for 'targetable'.
Looks very interesting. :)
BTW, personally, I wouldn't see any
ethical (not so sure about
legal) problem in hacking the .exe of a practically unsupported game if it doesn't circumvent copy protection and if the full executable is not distributed.
I think as long as we keep this in the community, we should do it.....I don't know that my opinion counts for much, but I have to say that as long as we don't try and sell the result, I can't imagine that Irrational would be too upset with us.
By the way, Bearded, good luck!
I don't see why the full exe couldn't be distributed. It wouldn't work without all the other textures, scripts, py files and such like would it?
baby steps closer. i know where the blocks of code are stored in the hex file that controls combat, i just don't know exactly what they mean. and they are different sizes. so changing one for the other crashes the exe.
i swear, i look at a person carrying a dog and i see the people function referencing the dog block now. 2 straight nights of this, with a few moments of playing nexus war, and i think i'm living in the matrix.
'nother step closer. i have decyphered the asm (assembly?) and know what hex each is located in. i know basically what variables the asm is using, but i'm not sure which variables applies yet. so, i've got the variables, i've got what asm is doing to the variables; push, pop, mov, etc. now all i have to figure out is which variable controls the melee flag, figure out which function assigns it, and then hex it.
i think it is eax and ecx.
Go bearded! :thinkingidea Go Bearded! :thinkingidea
Quote from: Lunarman on May 17, 2007, 11:44:53 PM
I don't see why the full exe couldn't be distributed. It wouldn't work without all the other textures, scripts, py files and such like would it?
Cheers, fellows! Very interesting work here. I just thought I might ask the following question: rather than distributing a modified version of the IG executable, would it not be better to distribute an executable patch that makes the desired revisions to the end user's copy of the FF executable? I'm not certain about the legality of this alternative either, but distributing an executable (as opposed to an add-on or a patch) that contains at least some of IG's original programming sounds to me a bit suspect.
That is all I have to add. Good work on this project! :)
ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and The Prat in the Hat
Are bearded's posts reminding anyone else earily of something out of an H. P. Lovecraft story? Y'know, the journal entries as the protagonist is slowly coming to understand things, while slowly going insane?
Very interesting. Though my first thought is that collection of strings you've found there are messages referenced by other parts of the code.
Quote from: Symon on May 18, 2007, 10:28:04 AM
Very interesting. Though my first thought is that collection of strings you've found there are messages referenced by other parts of the code.
exactly so. it's the other parts of the code i'm digging in now. the only clues i have are the strings, because there is no commentary at all. the strings led me to the blocks of code that deal with everything dealing with melee.
QuoteAre bearded's posts reminding anyone else earily of something out of an H. P. Lovecraft story? Y'know, the journal entries as the protagonist is slowly coming to understand things, while slowly going insane?
exactly so. I swear, Irrational must have hired 1000 monkeys at 1000 keyboards to do this code. it's like each function is totally arranged differently from each other.
Quotewould it not be better to distribute an executable patch that makes the desired revisions to the end user's
i had a thought, that if i could discover exactly what variables needed exactly what flag, i could make a call to them externally. sort of the way mods supercede base data. it's not likely, as they are 'hard coded', but i'll try.
i feel like i'm very close, but i might not be able to work on it for a couple of days. it's time to reference my birthday function, under the header 'out all night', with if drinking => tolerance then goto directory sick all next day.
I put my programmer head on (neither assembly nor machine code sadly) and looked at this bit some more:-
SSZ0081C820_melee_target_is_dead:
db 'melee target is dead',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C838_target_gone_invisible_or_dim_shi:
db 'target gone invisible or dim shifted',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C860_frozen_friend_freed:
db 'frozen friend freed',0
SSZ0081C874_melee_attack_on_a_flying_charact:
db 'melee attack on a flying character',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C898_airborn_melee_attack_on_a_ground:
db 'airborn melee attack on a grounded character',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C8C8_melee_attack_while_flying:
db 'melee attack while flying',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C8E4_melee_target__s_is_out_of_2d_sce:
db 'melee target %s is out of 2d scene extents',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C910_Already_running_requested_melee_:
db 'Already running requested melee attack, sinking trigger',0
SSZ0081C948_Attacking_target__s__s_:
db 'Attacking target %s(%s)',0
SSZ0081C960_ERROR__Melee_Power__s_has_range_:
db 'ERROR: Melee Power %s has range 0',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C984_CMeleeController__start__:
db 'CMeleeController::start()',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C9A0_power_ref___is_not_valid:
db 'power ref # is not valid',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C9BC_closed_range__resumed_normal_att:
db 'closed range, resumed normal attack',0
SSZ0081C9E0_target_ready_to_interogate:
db 'target ready to interogate',0
Align 4
SSZ0081C9FC_Melee_recharging__range_already_:
db 'Melee recharging, range already closed',0
Align 4
SSZ0081CA24_Waiting_for_melee_recharge__clos:
db 'Waiting for melee recharge, closing range',0
Align 4
SSZ0081CA50_Failed_to_reach_target:
db 'Failed to reach target',0
Align 4
SSZ0081CA68_Reached_target__Attacking:
db 'Reached target, Attacking',0
Align 4
L0081CA84:
dd 3DCCCCCDh
Looks like it might be AI code to me. Conditions that flag attacks to be made or reasons they need to be aborted. If that's correct, sadly there isn't code to be enabled here. (Hope I'm wrong).
As for the legality of such a patch release. I'd say no problem. There are numerous Morrowind add on executables (MGE - Morrowind Graphics extender, MWE - Morrowind extended, MWSE - Morrowind script extender (and IS MW scripting primitive compared to FF/Python) etc.) that Bathseda know about and allow discussion of on their own forums.
Quote from: Symon on May 18, 2007, 05:13:39 PM
Looks like it might be AI code to me. Conditions that flag attacks to be made or reasons they need to be aborted. If that's correct, sadly there isn't code to be enabled here. (Hope I'm wrong).
As for the legality of such a patch release. I'd say no problem. There are numerous Morrowind add on executables (MGE - Morrowind Graphics extender, MWE - Morrowind extended, MWSE - Morrowind script extender (and IS MW scripting primitive compared to FF/Python) etc.) that Bathseda know about and allow discussion of on their own forums.
no, that's right. but it links up with the proper code. i'm pretty sure i've flagged melee and speeding bullet to work in flight now. what i didn't consider was that i then have to figure out where the user interface is located so you can actually use them in game. and i don't think the ai's will use them either, because i'll have to find the code that activates different behaviours.
basically, they are allowable powers in flight now, but you can't access them yet, if that makes sense.
Wowee!
That's great news Bearded!
Well done on figuring out that crazy code :)
Hey guys, what's the status on this exciting approach?
I'm also very interested on what can be accomplished with this...any word from those involved?
DEATH
I just haven't the time to do this properly.
I can either mesh/skin/Mod, which will definitely produce results, or I can do things like blindly experiment with the .exe, which may well produce nothing.
Seems to me that the safe bet is the one to make.
So for now, I'm leaving it to those who have either the time, or the know-how, or the bloody-mindedness to see this through.
For the next few months, I'm not one of those people...
Haha, hey Tommy, we'll take whatever you feel like giving us! ^_^