Freedom Reborn Archive

Freedom Force Forums => Hex Editing => Topic started by: Podmark on September 05, 2007, 10:34:07 AM

Title: Nifskope Permission List and Rules
Post by: Podmark on September 05, 2007, 10:34:07 AM
Mesher listed here have given permission for users to skope their existing meshes and to distribute said skopes to online users.

Rules
-Please ensure that when releasing a skope to the community you include a text file listing all meshers whose work you have used in your skope. This includes keyframe skopes.

-Also the naming convention of released skopes is preferred as "characterName_skope". Please refrain from adding individual mesher's signature naming conventions such as 'Ren', 'VX', '69', 'tv' etc.



Permission Given:
Tommyboy - rules amended see below.
Ink
Renegade
Vertex/Bobby 69
Beyonder (except Doc Ock and winged meshes)
UnfluffyBunny/Syn
Tomato/Antmananext
Bearded
Valandar (exceptions Voltron, Vighna Ghina, and GP-01 Gundam)
Grenadier
Gni
Texas Jack
yell0w_lantern
Jik
Wingzero2525
Interceptor
Volsung
DravenXII
Shevek
Lord Ehmsidy
Saracen/Crusader
IPS keyframes

Special
ow_tiobe_sb (check readme for permission)
IPS (by request only, keyframes are ok to skope)

Denied
Fusion
X-Dud
Webrider (as he is no longer with us we will be respecting his inability to express a decision)


Tommyboy's amended rules:
1. You may use my existing body of work to create original 'skopes PROVIDED that said 'skopes are not labeled as some other mesher's creation.

2. You may NOT take the parts I have made that define a character and just plonk them down on someone else's mesh to create the same character I have already made. IF there are sufficient additions/changes/recombinations made to justify it as a new version that is SUBSTANTIALLY different from the version I have already made, then fine. (Johnny's Doc Doom works as an original skope, But fails the Naming Convention rule. Call it 'Dr.Doom_skope' or 'Dr.Doom_fingers' even, just not 'VX_Dr_Doom'). Just adding or removing a buckle, for instance, does not justify a new 'skope, as far as I'm concerned. I'm willing to discuss this with some leeway if people contact me, but if you can't be bothered to do that, assume that my answer is 'No, you may not skope the Pied Piper, or whoever, changing one or two parts'.

3. If you want to 'skope a version of something I've made onto a mesh with fingers but for whatever reason feel my fingered meshes aren't suitable, DO NOT label the resultant 'skope with someone else's name.

4. I like Nifskoping, really I do. Some wonderful, creative, brilliant stuff has been done, and is being done with it. My permission remains to use my meshes, within the terms set out above. 90-95% of the stuff in this thread I have no issues with. 90-95% of the 'skopes using my work I have no issues with. If anyone is unsure about using my stuff, PM me and ask, preferably with a picture of the end result. I'll crosspost some of this in the 'nifskope permissions' thread to reflect my changed 'rules'.

5. Should people feel unable or unwilling to abide by my wishes, I'll simply stop releasing meshes, and remove my work from my site, anyone else's sites, and close all my Yahoo groups. Not a threat or an ultimatum, just a statement of fact. You'll still have whatever has already been downloaded to play with, but nothing new will be added.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on September 06, 2007, 09:01:56 AM
Added Wingzero2525 based on his permission being stated on the wiki. Is there any documentation on him? I hadn't heard about him giving permission.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on September 09, 2007, 12:58:29 PM
Added IPS. In the other thread he has stated that he is NOT giving general permission but will consider it on an individual request basis.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on September 14, 2007, 11:29:20 PM
Does Gni allow his/her meshes to be skoped? :(
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on September 15, 2007, 01:34:33 AM
Quote from: GGiant on September 14, 2007, 11:29:20 PM
Does Gni allow his/her meshes to be skoped? :(

Yep, he's on the list. I emailed him personally.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on September 15, 2007, 02:01:44 AM
How about Lord Ehmsidy? :unsure:
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on September 15, 2007, 10:52:15 AM
Quote from: GGiant on September 15, 2007, 02:01:44 AM
How about Lord Ehmsidy? :unsure:

Far as I know we haven't heard from him yet. If anyone knows his name we could tr asking.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on September 15, 2007, 09:56:04 PM
Added Interceptor.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on September 16, 2007, 11:37:31 PM
Quote from: Podmark on September 15, 2007, 09:56:04 PM
Added Interceptor.
Yes!
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on September 23, 2007, 05:38:43 AM
Saracen?
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Boalt92 on September 24, 2007, 04:49:59 AM
Silly question:

This list implies that it's o.k. to redistribute a skoped mesh (with credit/acknowledgement, of course).

Is this correct?

B92
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on September 24, 2007, 05:10:36 AM
Yes.
This is a list of meshers that give them permissions to create and distribute skopes.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on September 24, 2007, 06:13:44 AM
I haven't heard anything about Saracen.

Yes this list lists meshers who have given their ok for skoping, and also those who have not.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on September 24, 2007, 07:47:56 AM
It means releasing or distributing the skope and giving proper credit to the mesher.
Or am I WRONG? :unsure: :lol:
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on September 24, 2007, 09:52:46 AM
I got a bit confused on IPS's wording, but essentially a mesher who gives permission on this list grants permission for a skoper to skope his existing meshes and to distribute that skope to online users.

It is expected that the skoper will provide a readme file stating the origin of any parts used in the skope.

Essentially the same rules as the hexing list had.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Tomato on September 26, 2007, 11:21:59 AM
I hesitate to ask this, but... I know certain meshers, such as Webrider, are... well... no longer in any living community. I don't feel it's right to just steal their meshes, but I also think it's unkind to say that their work cannot further impact the community because they're unable to tell us "yes you can use them".

In Webrider's specific case I'm going to ask his parents what they think, but I know there's more then one case like this out there, and I wanted to know what you guys think
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: the_ultimate_evil on September 26, 2007, 11:40:05 AM
GG confusing people never in all my years would i expect such a thing  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on September 26, 2007, 10:40:41 PM
Quote from: Podmark on September 24, 2007, 09:52:46 AM
but essentially a mesher who gives permission on this list grants permission for a skoper to skope his existing meshes and to distribute that skope to online users.

It is expected that the skoper will provide a readme file stating the origin of any parts used in the skope.
That's exactly what I mean! :D
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on September 30, 2007, 08:59:55 PM
Quote from: Tomato on September 26, 2007, 11:21:59 AM
I hesitate to ask this, but... I know certain meshers, such as Webrider, are... well... no longer in any living community. I don't feel it's right to just steal their meshes, but I also think it's unkind to say that their work cannot further impact the community because they're unable to tell us "yes you can use them".

In Webrider's specific case I'm going to ask his parents what they think, but I know there's more then one case like this out there, and I wanted to know what you guys think

Thanks for reminding me about this. The group consensus seemed to be that we should consider his work off-limits unless we hear from a relative. The list will be updated.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: detourne_me on October 29, 2007, 08:03:16 AM
Does anyone know anything about 3D Master? has he given or denied skoping? is he even around at all?
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on October 29, 2007, 08:10:23 AM
Quote from: detourne_me on October 29, 2007, 08:03:16 AM
Does anyone know anything about 3D Master? has he given or denied skoping? is he even around at all?
I thought no one would ever ask.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on October 29, 2007, 09:59:52 AM
Haven't heard anything
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on November 12, 2007, 01:36:58 AM
Dear everybody,

Is my understanding of this correct?

Some meshers are not in the community and thus some include readme's or anything for reference with there meshes and I see some stating if they are giving permission to modify their mesh.
For example, I have this mesh named thing_effects by Jude Martin and this is stated in it's txt file:

Use it as you will but always give credit where credit is due.

Does this state that we can modify or more likely "skope" their meshes?
To my vision it is yes but we always should give credit to the mesher, of course.
But I thought I should ask you guys first.


Anyways, Can anyone ask Volsung if we could "skope" his sweet meshes?

                                                             
                                                                                                       Thanks for your time,
                                                                                                                GGiant :)
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on November 13, 2007, 06:51:53 PM
contacting Volsung should be easy as he's still active.

The readme thing is sticky. I know from talking to some meshers that once their stuff is out there it's fair use, but others, regardless of what they may have put in their readmes, might have reservations about future advances in mesh modification (ie importers, nif skope) that they couldn't have foreseen.

Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: style on November 13, 2007, 08:00:11 PM
Podmark I agree. I think when they stated "Do what you like with the mesh just give credit where credit is due" I think they was talking about putting it in a mod.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on November 14, 2007, 05:32:54 AM
Okay. Is Felideo okay for skoping?
I saw some skopes of his meshes so probably yes?
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on November 14, 2007, 09:21:21 AM
Quote from: GGiant on November 14, 2007, 05:32:54 AM
Okay. Is Felideo okay for skoping?
I saw some skopes of his meshes so probably yes?

I haven't heard from him.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on November 15, 2007, 02:05:47 AM
Quote from: Podmark on November 14, 2007, 09:21:21 AM
Quote from: GGiant on November 14, 2007, 05:32:54 AM
Okay. Is Felideo okay for skoping?
I saw some skopes of his meshes so probably yes?

I haven't heard from him.
Funny, I remember some one releasing a skope with his mesh parts.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on November 15, 2007, 11:56:47 PM
Quote from: Podmark on November 13, 2007, 06:51:53 PM
contacting Volsung should be easy as he's still active.

The readme thing is sticky. I know from talking to some meshers that once their stuff is out there it's fair use, but others, regardless of what they may have put in their readmes, might have reservations about future advances in mesh modification (ie importers, nif skope) that they couldn't have foreseen.


Silly me. I guess I didn't see this:
Quote from: Volsung on April 24, 2007, 05:32:16 AM
Like I said in private,as long as there's correct credit i'm ok with nifskoping of any kind
Especially on timmverse male basic which was made for the community. :)
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on November 16, 2007, 09:34:35 AM
Ok added Volsung.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on November 20, 2007, 04:40:45 AM
I have a question:
Is the Nifskope Permission List being followed by all?
I saw this guy who released this skope that has this part from this mesh Fusion created?
Hey, this is just a question, I don't want a debate. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on November 20, 2007, 09:04:28 AM
Quote from: GGiant on November 20, 2007, 04:40:45 AM
I have a question:
Is the Nifskope Permission List being followed by all?
I saw this guy who released this skope that has this part from this mesh Fusion created?
Hey, this is just a question, I don't want a debate. :rolleyes:

Giant its not the law, we can't legally enforce it as forum members, we just encourage others to follow it as it respects the creators and their work. I'm not really certain of the legal rights the creators, like Fusion, have though.

If you see someone who has skoped something they shouldn't, first assume they either made a mistake or are unaware of this list. Politely inform them of their error and refer them here. Hopefully they are good members of our community and will abide by the rules. If they don't...well we get less polite  :angry:
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on November 20, 2007, 10:56:53 PM
Yeah..... :mellow:
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on December 03, 2007, 12:15:50 AM
Quote from: Tomato on September 26, 2007, 11:21:59 AM
I hesitate to ask this, but... I know certain meshers, such as Webrider, are... well... no longer in any living community. I don't feel it's right to just steal their meshes, but I also think it's unkind to say that their work cannot further impact the community because they're unable to tell us "yes you can use them".

In Webrider's specific case I'm going to ask his parents what they think, but I know there's more then one case like this out there, and I wanted to know what you guys think
His mom is still in the webrider yahoo groups...still I suggest we don't contact her.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: billdamn22 on December 17, 2007, 06:46:09 AM
Any news on Lord Ehmsidy's meshes?
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on December 17, 2007, 11:28:52 AM
Quote from: billdamn22 on December 17, 2007, 06:46:09 AM
Any news on Lord Ehmsidy's meshes?

Haven't heard anything.

I usually only contact people if I'm planning to use a part from their mesh, and thus far I haven't needed anything from Ehmsidy's meshes.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Renegade on December 17, 2007, 03:10:04 PM
I'm not sure if this perspective helps or not, but as a mesher I've got to say that I don't care what might happen to my meshes if I were to drop dead tomorrow. I would prefer that people don't claim the work as their own, but beyond that if folks want to skope the heck out of them so be it. I almost view it like leaving behind an organ donor card.

I'm sure someone will chime in with a opposing point of view though.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on January 03, 2008, 10:19:23 PM
I'm sorry if you meant me Ren. :( ;_;
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: cripp12 on January 04, 2008, 06:21:52 AM
Quote from: Renegade on December 17, 2007, 03:10:04 PM
I'm not sure if this perspective helps or not, but as a mesher I've got to say that I don't care what might happen to my meshes if I were to drop dead tomorrow. I would prefer that people don't claim the work as their own, but beyond that if folks want to skope the heck out of them so be it. I almost view it like leaving behind an organ donor card.

I'm sure someone will chime in with a opposing point of view though.
Even though that was a very generous offer I hope you live for a hundred years.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on January 11, 2008, 07:57:22 PM
And I hope he doesn't lose his genius of making meshes! :D
Quote from: pinocchio on January 11, 2008, 05:07:31 PM
this topic was brought up several years ago , when skoping was fairly new and 3d master had just gotten back from Iraq . he was asked and did give permission to hex or skope his meshes.
  this happened sometime before the big hack attack and the  move here .
i haven't heard from either 3d master or Lord Ehmsidy in several years.
I have only stopped to check up on things here very rairly in the last two years due to real life stuff .
as to whether you wish to mess  with hexing or skoping either of their meshes thats up to you .
Shall we agree to this, I mean if I read clearly there was a list before the boards went down, right?
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on January 11, 2008, 08:13:55 PM
Quote from: GGiant on January 11, 2008, 07:57:22 PM
And I hope he doesn't lose his genius of making meshes! :D
Quote from: pinocchio on January 11, 2008, 05:07:31 PM
this topic was brought up several years ago , when skoping was fairly new and 3d master had just gotten back from Iraq . he was asked and did give permission to hex or skope his meshes.
  this happened sometime before the big hack attack and the  move here .
i haven't heard from either 3d master or Lord Ehmsidy in several years.
I have only stopped to check up on things here very rairly in the last two years due to real life stuff .
as to whether you wish to mess  with hexing or skoping either of their meshes thats up to you .
Shall we agree to this, I mean if I read clearly there was a list before the boards went down, right?

That list was the hexing list. Skoping is something separate.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on January 11, 2008, 08:17:32 PM
Thank you for clarifying, Pod. :)
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: GGiant on January 23, 2008, 04:30:42 AM
Quote from:  SaracenThis directory is for PUBLICLY released meshes which may be freely hexed, skinned, modified, distributed or otherwise used.
I found this is at Saracen's first yahoo group (http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/peaceloveandunderstanding/), I think.
Shall we take skoping a part of modifying the mesh?
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: The Hitman on January 23, 2008, 11:58:00 AM
Quote from: GGiant on January 23, 2008, 04:30:42 AM
Quote from:  SaracenThis directory is for PUBLICLY released meshes which may be freely hexed, skinned, modified, distributed or otherwise used.
I found this is at Saracen's first yahoo group (http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/peaceloveandunderstanding/), I think.
Shall we take skoping a part of modifying the mesh?

Hrm... Gray area, I think.... e-mail to make sure?
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Blkcasanova247 on February 10, 2008, 08:25:20 PM
Heya guys.....here's another to add to the permission list....DravenXIII! :thumbup: I PM'd him and surprisingly he got back to me right away ^_^...here's what he had to say...
Quote from: DravenXIII on February 10, 2008, 02:35:52 PM
Hello there Blkcasanova247 and thank you for your recent PM. I'm really pleased to see things are still going strong in the FF community and wish you all well. By all means feel free to play around with the meshes and what ever you can make good use of. All I really ask is a little mention, which I know most of you do anyway. Thank you also for the info about Nifskoping, sounds good and I can see you've really got to grips with it. Well done and keep up the good work!  :thumbup:

Kind regards, Draven.

Now I can release my Iron Fist with the Mortal Kombat keyframes! :thumbup: :D
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on February 10, 2008, 08:40:24 PM
Ok cool. updating the list.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Tomato on March 10, 2008, 02:47:39 PM
I just PMed Shevek (who did Deadpool_Muscular, for those who weren't aware) but I was wondering if he went by another alias or if anyone has an email because it said he hadn't been active since 2004.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Blkcasanova247 on March 10, 2008, 02:52:47 PM
I PM'd him too...last week.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Blkcasanova247 on April 12, 2008, 11:56:14 AM
Quote from: Shevek on April 12, 2008, 11:33:58 AM
Feel free man. I put it out there for people to use

Add Shevek to the list. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: TAP43 on April 14, 2008, 12:55:02 PM

Here is the responce from Lord Ehmsidy after I PMed him and asked to use his meshes for skoping, He answerd me right back.
Very cool  :thumbup:

QuoteSure, go ahead. You can do anything you want to them (if it works). Have fun!

One other thing I thought Kennex had posted that Saracen/Crusader had said it was o.k. to skope his meshes
here:
http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=45647.msg635007#msg635007 (http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=45647.msg635007#msg635007)

Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Podmark on April 14, 2008, 09:59:20 PM
Thanks Tap, hadn't seen the KennX post. Glad we finally heard from Lord Ehmsidy.

List updated.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: the_ultimate_evil on April 18, 2008, 07:27:56 AM
sweet

*goes to work on beastman*
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: Zivon23 on June 21, 2008, 09:17:28 PM
So....has anyone heard from 3D bout skoping?


~Z23~
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List
Post by: tommyboy on July 09, 2008, 06:53:54 AM
Crossposted, my new 'Rules' concerning NifSkoping:


1. You may use my existing body of work to create original 'skopes PROVIDED that said 'skopes are not labeled as some other mesher's creation.

2. You may NOT take the parts I have made that define a character and just plonk them down on someone else's mesh to create the same character I have already made. IF there are sufficient additions/changes/recombinations made to justify it as a new version that is SUBSTANTIALLY different from the version I have already made, then fine. (Johnny's Doc Doom works as an original skope, But fails the Naming Convention rule. Call it 'Dr.Doom_skope' or 'Dr.Doom_fingers' even, just not 'VX_Dr_Doom'). Just adding or removing a buckle, for instance, does not justify a new 'skope, as far as I'm concerned. I'm willing to discuss this with some leeway if people contact me, but if you can't be bothered to do that, assume that my answer is 'No, you may not skope the Pied Piper, or whoever, changing one or two parts'.

3. If you want to 'skope a version of something I've made onto a mesh with fingers but for whatever reason feel my fingered meshes aren't suitable, DO NOT label the resultant 'skope with someone else's name.

4. I like Nifskoping, really I do. Some wonderful, creative, brilliant stuff has been done, and is being done with it. My permission remains to use my meshes, within the terms set out above. 90-95% of the stuff in this thread I have no issues with. 90-95% of the 'skopes using my work I have no issues with. If anyone is unsure about using my stuff, PM me and ask, preferably with a picture of the end result. I'll crosspost some of this in the 'nifskope permissions' thread to reflect my changed 'rules'.

5. Should people feel unable or unwilling to abide by my wishes, I'll simply stop releasing meshes, and remove my work from my site, anyone else's sites, and close all my Yahoo groups. Not a threat or an ultimatum, just a statement of fact. You'll still have whatever has already been downloaded to play with, but nothing new will be added.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List and Rules
Post by: Podmark on July 09, 2008, 11:39:26 AM
Tommy I've added your rules to the first post for simplicity's sake.

Additionally this thread has been renamed "Nifskope Permission List and Rules" and guidelines discussed today in the skoping thread have been added to the first post. Please give them a read through.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List and Rules
Post by: billdamn22 on July 27, 2008, 11:05:37 PM
Are Ink's Falcon meshes alright to skope? I ask because I believe the wings may be Beyonder's.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List and Rules
Post by: Podmark on July 27, 2008, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: billdamn22 on July 27, 2008, 11:05:37 PM
Are Ink's Falcon meshes alright to skope? I ask because I believe the wings may be Beyonder's.

Are they?
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List and Rules
Post by: Blkcasanova247 on July 28, 2008, 04:44:51 AM
The wings are not The Beyonders...in fact I'm pretty certain that Ink released his Falcon mesh before Beyonders Vulture.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List and Rules
Post by: billdamn22 on July 28, 2008, 06:45:20 AM
Guess I was wrong....  :oops: They seem similar. This is great news for me.
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List and Rules
Post by: Zivon23 on December 21, 2008, 11:06:14 AM
3D Master? anyone try to contact him?  I know he hasn't said yea or nea cause the permission list doesn't have him even listed.  Can someone please address this quandry.Podmark?


Thanks in advanced,

~Z23~
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List and Rules
Post by: Blkcasanova247 on December 21, 2008, 01:52:06 PM
Quote from: Zivon23 on December 21, 2008, 11:06:14 AM
3D Master? anyone try to contact him?  I know he hasn't said yea or nea cause the permission list doesn't have him even listed.  Can someone please address this quandry.Podmark?


Thanks in advanced,

~Z23~

Before and during his breif comeback I had asked him a couple of times about giving permisson...but he never replied. :(
Title: Re: Nifskope Permission List and Rules
Post by: Podmark on December 21, 2008, 08:45:15 PM
Quote from: ips on December 21, 2008, 12:07:10 PM
the guidelines i ask you to follow are:

please include a readme with any kf work you do which properly credits me. don't label another's work as mine and don't label my work as someone else's please. it's you're responsibility to know who's work you are handling if you want to use my animations for something. if you do this you are showing me you are respecting me, my original work and the right to alter it.

thanks everyone for your understanding and i hope this allow you guys to do some fun stuff.

I just want to remind everyone that the above is expected with any skoped or hexed work.



I haven't heard from 3D-Master. If anyone does let me know.


IPS I can't remember, have you done any mesh work? Or is it all keyframming? Need to know to set the list correctly.