So Hulk 05 comes out next week I think, with Thor taking on the Red Hulk. I remember Thor saying to Iron Man that he wasn't holding back anymore. If this is true then the fight between him and Red Hulk should last around three panels. The Odin Force is as much a part of Thor now as is Mjolnir. Panel one has Red Hulk charging Thor proclaiming that he is the newest strongest one there is. Thor raises Mjolnir with both hands to the sky. Panel two has Red Hulk leaping at Thor ready to crush him. Mjolnir begins to burn with the brightness of a dozen suns, illuminating half of the planet. Panel three has Thor lowering Mjolnir and letting loose a antiforce/Odinforce blast that vaporizes Red Hulk into nothing. End of fight. Of course this won't be how the fight goes, it will be a drawn out slugfest meaning the writers will contradict what was told in a earlier issue. But that is always how it goes in comics.
Bah. I know nothing of this "Red Hulk" but if he is anything like the original Hulk then Thor is in for a fight.
-MJB
me no like red hulk.RRRrrr!
Red Hulk is new on the scene, in his brief time has shot (yes, Shot) and killed Abominaion, destroyed a SHIELD Helicarrier, and trounced Iron Man, She Hulk and GREEN Hulk. He has his full intellect, and is quite vicious in his fighting style. He seems to get hotter, as his anger increases.
[spoiler]
It has also been hinted at, he may be Doc Samson, (but totally out of character with him.)[/spoiler]
He's only been around 6 or so issues, so I doubt Thor will kill him.
Is the green hulk who was trounced by red hulk at his hax WWH power levels or has he been depowered to an extent since then?
Quote from: Carravaggio on July 23, 2008, 05:05:12 AM
Is the green hulk who was trounced by red hulk at his hax WWH power levels or has he been depowered to an extent since then?
It seems like he's being written....with less seathing rage and therefore not as strong as in WWH. And he's also gone back to "stupid" Hulk. Thor at the power level he is being written at should whup Red Hulks behind...but for the sake of this bad story...he won't.
Quote from: Blkcasanova247 on July 23, 2008, 05:48:46 AM
Quote from: Carravaggio on July 23, 2008, 05:05:12 AM
Is the green hulk who was trounced by red hulk at his hax WWH power levels or has he been depowered to an extent since then?
It seems like he's being written....with less seathing rage and therefore not as strong as in WWH. And he's also gone back to "stupid" Hulk. Thor at the power level he is being written at should whup Red Hulks behind...but for the sake of this bad story...he won't.
Actually we don't know Thor's power level. We know he might have the Odin force and has gone head to head with the Destroyer but (only one person was controlling it) but I have a feeling he'd never really tap into the Odin-level of power after what happened in the Reigning.
Thor certainly has the Odin-force, in issue 08 he met with Odin while in the Odin-sleep, which Odin told him is now the Thor-sleep. Odin also tells his son that the power that was his, is now forever Thor's. This power added to Thor's already massive power, makes Thor one of the most powerful of all beings in creation and that is including the cosmic beings. There is no way in hell that Red Hulk should even give Thor trouble but we all know that he will. I suppose that it would be a boring story if Thor killed him in two panels.
So, I just got home after picking up Hulk #5 and I have to say I'm more than a little disappointed.
[spoiler]I mean come on, Red Hulk took a shot by Mjolnir dead in the face and it didn't even phase him. Give me a break! They're not even being consistent from issue to issue. Even though Green Hulk got beaten, at least he put up a fight. Thor just got completely punked. [/spoiler]
Sounds like I'm really glad I'm giving it a skip. Almost got it because Thor was in it.
Really, this was a bad showing for Thor. You might have just had spider-man take a swing. Would have been the same outcome. Though, his trick did remind me of one Ghost Rider used against him. Thor threw his hammer at GR. GR drives away on his bike as fast as he can. When the hammer returned to Thor, GR grabbed the handle and rode it back to deliver a great looking haymaker.
I actually liked this issue. Rulk is clever you have to give him that. I loved the way he got around the enchantment of not being able to pick up Mjolnir. Also anyone that can pummel Thor with his own hammer deserves respect.
You don't "get around " the enchantment. Its not just really heavy. NOBODY who's worthy should be able to pick it up, much less use it as a croquet mallet on Odin's boy. It says so right on the side of the freaking hammer. The second thor let go of it , Rulk should have shot down toward earth like a missile, period.
Quote from: B A D on August 07, 2008, 08:53:36 AM
You don't "get around " the enchantment. Its not just really heavy. NOBODY who's worthy should be able to pick it up, much less use it as a croquet mallet on Odin's boy. It says so right on the side of the freaking hammer. The second thor let go of it , Rulk should have shot down toward earth like a missile, period.
This was exactly the same complaint (amongst other complaints) I had about the
Ultimate Avengers animated film. Of course, I know too little about the Ultimates' reality to know if their Thor, not to mention his axe-edged Mjolnir, operate under different magical conditions.
ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning
Yeah, whilst I can see that they are setting up red hulk as the Baddest Bad Bottom Around, having him beat up all the heaviest hitters in the MU, I disliked the way the hammer was handled.
For many a year villains or heroes would just separate Thor from the hammer if a beating were needed, thats what should have happened here. Otherwise we have the hulk holding the hammer and jumping up out of the earths gravitational pull, while thor holds on to the strap. Not very well written. Not very important, either, in the larger scheme of things, but could have been done better. :thumbdown:
Based on what I'm reading here, I think I'm glad I've decided to pass on the Red Hulk.
We've already had green hulk, grey hulk and red hulk ... and I'm beginning to wonder if Marvel is heading down DC's kryptonite past - green, red, silver, gold, black, jeweled, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
Color me ... unimpressed.
While I did like the idea of a Red Hulk and the mystery of who he was at first, Loeb has proven that no matter what comic he is writing his main character is always stronger and better than anyone else's. For Rulk to do as much damage as he did to Thor is a joke. In fact, I'm not even sure why Thor was in this issue other than Loeb trying to prove to his readers just how strong Red Hulk is. I really, really hope this new character is not Doc Samson or Gen Thunderbolt because this would be a terrible development that will just complicate these characters for future writers and readers.
Since I haven't read any red hulk since I browsed issue 1...I just want to know...was anyone expecting anything different with Loeb's track record of late? I mean, of recent times, I've only seen him praised for Captain America: White #0 and that was only 6 or so comments (I havent looked in awhile). I'm just waiting on red hulk to send some character flying two states [exag] away, smack thor through a wall, and um...the mystery reveal. Coincidentally, I can already get these things (with venom) from Loeb's ultimates which is an 616 story under the guise of the ultimate characters. DOUBLE WHAMMY! HEEHAW! *turns red*
BUUUUUT...I wouldn't be surprised if JMS strikes back, metaphorically speaking, and has Thor overcome red hulk later. I doubt anyone will complain about such a thing happening. :P
Does Thor transform anymore?
i really dislike red hulk.you guys have been hitting things on the head with him.yeah,its his idea so everyones going to get smashed.ugh!thats what i dont like about venom.thats why i dont like wolverine as much as i did.theres got to be a limit to what a character can do.i predict our green hulk's going to come back and beat him.
Quote from: B A D on August 07, 2008, 08:53:36 AM
You don't "get around " the enchantment. Its not just really heavy. NOBODY who's worthy should be able to pick it up, much less use it as a croquet mallet on Odin's boy. It says so right on the side of the freaking hammer. The second thor let go of it , Rulk should have shot down toward earth like a missile, period.
The enchantment states that only those that are worthy may lift the hammer right? It does not say that only those that are worthy may wield the hammer. In zero gravity one does not have to lift the hammer to use it, since the laws of gravity no longer apply. I know that you are going to say that Mjolnir is governed by magic and not gravity and that is true, but the enchantment does state "lift" not "wield". Loeb no doubt saw this as a great way to find the loophole in the enchantment and I think it is brilliant. Hey don't blame Loeb blame the guy that originally wrote the enchantments for Mjolnir. Loeb was being creative and you guys are bashing him for it. :thumbdown:
Quote from: captmorgan72 on August 07, 2008, 03:49:03 PM
[
The enchantment states that only those that are worthy may lift the hammer right? It does not say that only those that are worthy may wield the hammer. In zero gravity one does not have to lift the hammer to use it, since the laws of gravity no longer apply. I know that you are going to say that Mjolnir is governed by magic and not gravity and that is true, but the enchantment does state "lift" not "wield". Loeb no doubt saw this as a great way to find the loophole in the enchantment and I think it is brilliant. Hey don't blame Loeb blame the guy that originally wrote the enchantments for Mjolnir. Loeb was being creative and you guys are bashing him for it. :thumbdown:
You would NEVER write any heroic or magic fiction EVER on my watch with that perspective. However if I had the cash I would send you to law school. Seriously I really do hope you know that's not creativity. its cheating by finding a loophole that's not really there. Wielding requires lifting. Time and time again others including green Hulk have grabbed the hammer while it was not on the ground and it smashed immediately to the ground when they tried to lift it. Its always worked that way Loeb just changed the rules for his pet and made up a rationalization. I loathe loathe loathe the practice of showing how tough new characters are by trashing the tough veterans. It just invalidates the new guy to me.
Devil's advocate here. Has anybody tried this before in space? What planet would the hammer fall to? If you are in a weightless enviroment, you do NOT have to lift something to weild it. I could weild a gun in space and not lift it. It was a creative loophole. However, they made him look too indestructable. Thor should have hurt him for a little bit at least. Heh, I think it's gonna be Thing and Hulk that take him down. Ares will run straight in and get punked. Wonderman is strong, but not in the league that Hulk is. Hulk and Thing have been doing this thing with each other for awhile. They will know how to beat him. BTW, why have The Human Torch there? He's useless. What they should do is have Mrs. Marvel just drain away his gamma radiation. Or call in a favor from Silver Surfer.
I just read this issue as well, and like most I was disapointed greatly with this issue and the way Red Hulk is handled alltogeather. He just went through 6 Hulk class opponents without even breaking a sweat? (Wendigo, Abomination, She-Hulk, A-bomb, Hulk (who just beat the Marvel Universe durring WWH) and Thor). And this Hammer debate, How do you wield something without lifting it or holding it? The Mjolnir should of been immoble in zero gravity, immovable alltogeather, stationary.
The only other thing that is mentioned by Thor after Red Hulk lifts the hammers is "unless in my father's absence..."
I'm wondering if they'll actually make it Doc Samson in the end. It COULD be him and still make some sense. In Thunderbolts he states that all gamma-irradiated beings have an incredible rage inside them, though he's been able to suppress his own through his psychological knowledge/skill. There's enough rage in there to incapacitate a psychic who was attempting to control him by letting a fraction of it leak out. This makes it not entirely ridiculous that he could have become this through some as-yet unknown means.
Then again, the way it's being presented so far, it's looking like the Samson identity could be a red herring. Either way, there's still a lot of things that need to be revealed.
This Red hulk storyline is bad, like most of Loeb's writing. This thing with Thor is just the most recent example of it. If you haven't read it, don't bother.
As to the whole 'zero' gravity thing, its my understanding that there is no such thing. A gravitational field extends infinitely, but diminishes with distance. Additionally, everything in the solar system is subject to the gravitational attraction of the sun. Although in space you can be 'weightless', there is no such thing as 'zero' gravity.
However, in Mr. Loeb's favour, in Avengers #122 Thor is deprived of his hammer in a weightless state in space (though that author also is confused, since they are 'in orbit', and to be in orbit you have to be affected by gravity), and Iron Man flies carrying Mjolnir, thinking "it's a good thing we're both weightless, on earth nobody but goldilocks could carry this thing". So there is predecent of a sort for the part in space, even though the precedent itself is flawed.
However it's the getting into space part that bugs me. The art shows thor hanging onto the strap as hulk jumps, thor's not holding the hammer, he's being dragged by it. The writer could have had thor hit the hulk hard enough to go into orbit, or have the hulk hit thor thus.
It's all a bit geeky, I know, if I'm prepared to accept Thunder Gods and magic hammers and gamma powered monsters, why quibble over the contents of a panel or two?
Quote from: thanoson on August 07, 2008, 06:50:31 PM
Devil's advocate here. Has anybody tried this before in space? What planet would the hammer fall to? If you are in a weightless enviroment, you do NOT have to lift something to weild it. I could weild a gun in space and not lift it. It was a creative loophole. However, they made him look too indestructable. Thor should have hurt him for a little bit at least. Heh, I think it's gonna be Thing and Hulk that take him down. Ares will run straight in and get punked. Wonderman is strong, but not in the league that Hulk is. Hulk and Thing have been doing this thing with each other for awhile. They will know how to beat him. BTW, why have The Human Torch there? He's useless. What they should do is have Mrs. Marvel just drain away his gamma radiation. Or call in a favor from Silver Surfer.
Finally someone who is using their head and not crying foul play about their beloved Thor! I love Thor as much as the next guy but how Rulk managed to use Mjolnir against Thor is creative, not crappy writing as many of you here are saying. Loeb was thinking outside of the box and not following the same old same old.
question...what happened to his odin enhanced power.havent picked this issue up yet but if he hit red in the face with his hammer and nothing happened whats up?thor dented caps shield with odins power boosting him up.hmmmm....
Quote from: captmorgan72 on August 08, 2008, 02:47:43 AM
Quote from: thanoson on August 07, 2008, 06:50:31 PM
Devil's advocate here. Has anybody tried this before in space? What planet would the hammer fall to? If you are in a weightless enviroment, you do NOT have to lift something to weild it. I could weild a gun in space and not lift it. It was a creative loophole. However, they made him look too indestructable. Thor should have hurt him for a little bit at least. Heh, I think it's gonna be Thing and Hulk that take him down. Ares will run straight in and get punked. Wonderman is strong, but not in the league that Hulk is. Hulk and Thing have been doing this thing with each other for awhile. They will know how to beat him. BTW, why have The Human Torch there? He's useless. What they should do is have Mrs. Marvel just drain away his gamma radiation. Or call in a favor from Silver Surfer.
Finally someone who is using their head and not crying foul play about their beloved Thor! I love Thor as much as the next guy but how Rulk managed to use Mjolnir against Thor is creative, not crappy writing as many of you here are saying. Loeb was thinking outside of the box and not following the same old same old.
If Mjolnir had done the massive damage it should have striking Rulk as it should have and he just not shrugged it off I might agree but Rulk is just crushing heavy hitter after heavy hitter to prove he's tough. It just not Thor, I hate when any character is nerfed to prove another is tough. especially a new one crushes all the old vets to give him his creds. It diminishes both of them. God I wish I could see some of the "old same old' it seems all "crappy writing " these days. Thor is at least being written decently in his own comic. I do wish writers would remember Thor is 1000s of years old and not some rookie fighter. If everyone is given their due things work so much nicer. I think it was a bad idea for him to trounce green Hulk also BTW. In one issue of the Avengers where Thor became possessed and was no longer worthy the hammer tore itself from him hand.
Quote from: captmorgan72 on August 07, 2008, 03:49:03 PM
Quote from: B A D on August 07, 2008, 08:53:36 AM
You don't "get around " the enchantment. Its not just really heavy. NOBODY who's worthy should be able to pick it up, much less use it as a croquet mallet on Odin's boy. It says so right on the side of the freaking hammer. The second thor let go of it , Rulk should have shot down toward earth like a missile, period.
The enchantment states that only those that are worthy may lift the hammer right? It does not say that only those that are worthy may wield the hammer. In zero gravity one does not have to lift the hammer to use it, since the laws of gravity no longer apply. I know that you are going to say that Mjolnir is governed by magic and not gravity and that is true, but the enchantment does state "lift" not "wield". Loeb no doubt saw this as a great way to find the loophole in the enchantment and I think it is brilliant. Hey don't blame Loeb blame the guy that originally wrote the enchantments for Mjolnir. Loeb was being creative and you guys are bashing him for it. :thumbdown:
Its an ENCHANTMENT. The laws of gravity, physics, and driving 55 don't freaking apply.
Quote from: captmorgan72 on August 08, 2008, 02:47:43 AM
Finally someone who is using their head and not crying foul play about their beloved Thor! I love Thor as much as the next guy but how Rulk managed to use Mjolnir against Thor is creative, not crappy writing as many of you here are saying. Loeb was thinking outside of the box and not following the same old same old.
By the same token, just because you "like" something and find it to be "creative" does not make it a good writing. Welcome to the internet...where opinions live. Also, it's not just a Thor thing, Red Hulk is going around doing ridiculous things like punching out Watchers. He's being built up to a ridiculous level and no one can take him seriously OUTSIDE of Loeb's *cough* creative *cough* writing. If Rulk ever leaves Loeb's hands, I can see him being beat down...a lot.
I don't even really like Thor and I thought this was dumb.
Some writers, whenever they introduce a new character, feel the need to have their little darling beat up more established characters to make them seem tough/powerful. It rarely comes off as believable, and just looks like the author is playing favourites with his creation while dumping on those of other writers.
That's all that's happening here - I mean, Rulkie took out the Abomination, Idiot Green Hulk (why is he dumb again, who knows?) She-hulk, and now Thor, all without seeming effort.
Maybe this can cross-over with something Bendis writes and the Sentry can punt Rulkie into the sun. Bendis seems to pull more weight with Marvel right now, so his plot-device characters should trump Loeb's, right?
thread jack:
i recently got the planet hulk TPB and what surprised me most is hulk is intelligent and talking normally, is this prof hulk or did i miss something when did he get his brains back
Hulk's been intelligent for quite awhile now - since before House of M at least. I don't know when exactly it happened, but at least Loeb's reset the status quo without explanation or comment. Yay?
Hmm... maybe that wasn't the real Hulk we saw? Banner and Ross are being very secretive. Maybe there's something more we don't know yet? Anyone getting a Maestro vibe here? Maybe it's someone that has tapped fully into the rage. Could Maestro have given a beating like this?
i would like to say that i very much disliked the space skirmish.
Quote from: tommyboy on August 08, 2008, 02:45:36 AM
As to the whole 'zero' gravity thing, its my understanding that there is no such thing. A gravitational field extends infinitely, but diminishes with distance. Additionally, everything in the solar system is subject to the gravitational attraction of the sun. Although in space you can be 'weightless', there is no such thing as 'zero' gravity.
correct. gravitational forces exist between all objects with mass.
since mjolnir drops to the ground when people let go of it (and stays there when the unworthy try to lift it), it probably takes gravitational forces into account, and so, it would crash on earth or the moon (since those would be the most convenient locations :D).
I found this over at Newsarama. Loeb has some precedent on his side.
http://www.newsarama.com/common/community/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a46ada8ea-92e4-4618-9265-5be7cad0342bForum%3aeddf0de6-9daf-45e6-a15c-da5305371fbeDiscussion%3a9c399fcf-8eb7-401b-bc24-911ab91274c1&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0 (http://www.newsarama.com/common/community/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a46ada8ea-92e4-4618-9265-5be7cad0342bForum%3aeddf0de6-9daf-45e6-a15c-da5305371fbeDiscussion%3a9c399fcf-8eb7-401b-bc24-911ab91274c1&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0)
Doesn't matter, everyone here already has it set in their minds that what Rulk did or rather what Loeb did was garbage. You can show them all the evidence in the world why this can happen and probably even if Stan Lee thought it was cool, they would still cry "that's just stupid, that could never happen."
I already settled the Rulk vs Thor thing in the rumble room awhile back anyway and Thor almost never loses to him. Why? One answer, the god blast.
Quote from: captmorgan72 on August 09, 2008, 02:49:38 AM
Doesn't matter, everyone here already has it set in their minds that what Rulk did or rather what Loeb did was garbage. You can show them all the evidence in the world why this can happen and probably even if Stan Lee thought it was cool, they would still cry "that's just stupid, that could never happen."
I already settled the Rulk vs Thor thing in the rumble room awhile back anyway and Thor almost never loses to him. Why? One answer, the god blast.
If that makes you happy to believe it I'm happy for you. The method he used isn't as important to me as the fact Rulk is going through the A list and thrashing them to prove how great he is and the combo of him being crazy overpowered and his opponants being writer fiated too wimp out. ( Mjolnir in the face and unfazed, seriously,Also did Thor forget all his fighting skills and poor green Hulk his rage factor and durability )
Interesting I don't even give my version of Thor the godblast. If Stan Lee thought something stupid was OK BTW, It would still be stupid.
Quote from: Renegade on August 09, 2008, 01:58:07 AM
I found this over at Newsarama. Loeb has some precedent on his side.
http://www.newsarama.com/common/community/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a46ada8ea-92e4-4618-9265-5be7cad0342bForum%3aeddf0de6-9daf-45e6-a15c-da5305371fbeDiscussion%3a9c399fcf-8eb7-401b-bc24-911ab91274c1&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0 (http://www.newsarama.com/common/community/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a46ada8ea-92e4-4618-9265-5be7cad0342bForum%3aeddf0de6-9daf-45e6-a15c-da5305371fbeDiscussion%3a9c399fcf-8eb7-401b-bc24-911ab91274c1&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0)
Thanks for the link, Ren. This was mentioned earlier, but it's nice to see scans. Capt Morgan, just stop. All those generalized comments aren't gonna make anyone reconsider their stance. Your mind is made up too and no one is trying to convince you or call your opinion wrong, so why are you trying to do it? They don't agree with it and they don't have to no matter what you believe. And please...Stan Lee may be a comic legend...but why should his opinion on something dictate anything to the public? He's a fan like the rest of us.
What I find interesting is that you keep focusing on Thor when most people here are tired of Red Hulk in general. I find it especially funny because you start all these threads asking others how so and so did this and then you argue against it...like in that captain america thread you started, iirc.
Quote from: captmorgan72 on June 25, 2008, 04:14:17 AM
What issues did Cap fight and beat Sub Mariner and the Wrecker? I don't believe that Steve could beat any of these guys. If it did happen it was terrible writing, no way should this happen. The Wrecker was beating on Cage's Avengers and it took all of them to take him down.
So...what was the difference between then and now? How the tables turned. :P
This all reminds me of the Onslaught saga. This whole thing is a common practice with superhero and science fiction writing. The reason I bring up onslaught is that after that I didnt have the ability to get comics as easily as I used to so I stuck with the trade paperbacks. But anyway in that arc they sent a no-name villian called Post to basically trounce Cable and the X-men, then an overpowered Mimic and also Juggernaut got punked hardcore. All they are doing is setting up this Jerk to be the Big Bad of the season and then Hulk, or the Avengers or some combination of Hulk characters will end up trouncing him and save the day and then Rulk will basically be useless in future encounters unless they do portray him as Doc Samson
Quote from: Previsionary on August 09, 2008, 08:40:58 AM
Quote from: Renegade on August 09, 2008, 01:58:07 AM
I found this over at Newsarama. Loeb has some precedent on his side.
http://www.newsarama.com/common/community/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a46ada8ea-92e4-4618-9265-5be7cad0342bForum%3aeddf0de6-9daf-45e6-a15c-da5305371fbeDiscussion%3a9c399fcf-8eb7-401b-bc24-911ab91274c1&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0 (http://www.newsarama.com/common/community/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a46ada8ea-92e4-4618-9265-5be7cad0342bForum%3aeddf0de6-9daf-45e6-a15c-da5305371fbeDiscussion%3a9c399fcf-8eb7-401b-bc24-911ab91274c1&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0)
Thanks for the link, Ren. This was mentioned earlier, but it's nice to see scans. Capt Morgan, just stop. All those generalized comments aren't gonna make anyone reconsider their stance. Your mind is made up too and no one is trying to convince you or call your opinion wrong, so why are you trying to do it? They don't agree with it and they don't have to no matter what you believe. And please...Stan Lee may be a comic legend...but why should his opinion on something dictate anything to the public? He's a fan like the rest of us.
What I find interesting is that you keep focusing on Thor when most people here are tired of Red Hulk in general. I find it especially funny because you start all these threads asking others how so and so did this and then you argue against it...like in that captain america thread you started, iirc.
Quote from: captmorgan72 on June 25, 2008, 04:14:17 AM
What issues did Cap fight and beat Sub Mariner and the Wrecker? I don't believe that Steve could beat any of these guys. If it did happen it was terrible writing, no way should this happen. The Wrecker was beating on Cage's Avengers and it took all of them to take him down.
So...what was the difference between then and now? How the tables turned. :P
If you would have kept reading the posts in that thread you would have seen that I changed my view about that, after reading tons of Captain America issues. So sorry no tables turning over here. ;) Also don't tell me to stop when all I am doing is discussing this issue that everyone is so fired up over. Geez, some people here think they have some sort of authority to dictate what others can say. If you don't like what I have to say don't read my thread, simple as that bud. :rolleyes: I am not making "generalized comments " and I am not trying to persuade people to "reconsider their stance". I am doing the same thing as everyone else is, discussing the issue and what Loeb did. You must hate Rum or something. :blink:
mhm, sure. You didnt post anymore in that thread so it's kinda hard to read on. You keep harping on about thor and everyone who doesn't agree with your stance and going on about evidence when people keep posting that they dont particularly care for the way it was handled and red hulk in general. And no, I don't think I have authority and no one is even really fired up over this issue...so...what? But yeah...sure.
Also, I was pretty sure you would miss the point of me posting something you wrote. You didn't think Capt could beat those characters posters posted and immediately called it bad writing without even any knowledge on the issues (you certainly didnt bring up creativity). The difference here is, now you think Rulkie can go around beating up high class characters like thor because of "creative writing" and people who also read the same issue don't. See, how simple that was? Wasn't even insulting you. ^_^
Quote from: captmorgan72 on August 09, 2008, 02:49:38 AM
Doesn't matter, everyone here already has it set in their minds that what Rulk did or rather what Loeb did was garbage. You can show them all the evidence in the world why this can happen and probably even if Stan Lee thought it was cool, they would still cry "that's just stupid, that could never happen."
I already settled the Rulk vs Thor thing in the rumble room awhile back anyway and Thor almost never loses to him. Why? One answer, the god blast.
What Loeb does in Hulk doesn't matter - everything he writes these days is garbage. I enter Ultimates III as evidence, and the prosecution rests.
Sorry to change the subject but, how did red hulk even beat hulk though? I thought hulk still had his world war hulk persona which means he was stronger than ever before or something? :unsure:
Quote from: gengoro on August 09, 2008, 05:00:16 PM
Sorry to change the subject but, how did red hulk even beat hulk though? I thought hulk still had his world war hulk persona which means he was stronger than ever before or something? :unsure:
No, Hulk regressed as soon as Loeb came on board and we still don't know why. So smart, strong Planet-WWH hulk is now dumb, weaker, hulk again. Fun in a can, no? Anyway, going by what i remember reading in reviews, Red Hulk strangled Green hulk until he passed out and then carried him up onto a bridge...for some reason. Green Hulk escaped and Thor showed up for one reason or another. Actually...like AA mentioned, I don't have any idea why Thor appeared in this book.
Quote from: Previsionary on August 09, 2008, 03:13:47 PM
mhm, sure. You didnt post anymore in that thread so it's kinda hard to read on. You keep harping on about thor and everyone who doesn't agree with your stance and going on about evidence when people keep posting that they dont particularly care for the way it was handled and red hulk in general. And no, I don't think I have authority and no one is even really fired up over this issue...so...what? But yeah...sure.
Also, I was pretty sure you would miss the point of me posting something you wrote. You didn't think Capt could beat those characters posters posted and immediately called it bad writing without even any knowledge on the issues (you certainly didnt bring up creativity). The difference here is, now you think Rulkie can go around beating up high class characters like thor because of "creative writing" and people who also read the same issue don't. See, how simple that was? Wasn't even insulting you. ^_^
Oops my bad, I thought you where quoting my "what's so super about the super soldier serum" thread. In that thread I did a John Kerry and flip flopped. After reading a ton of Captain America issues I saw the light. Also your right about me prematurely calling those Captain America stories bad writing. I'll admit to that. I don't think that Rulk can go around beating up high class characters because of creative writing though. In my opinion, I think that Loeb was being creative with how he handled the Mjolnir enchantment. I realize that it is splitting hairs but the enchantment does say lift not wield. I hope you don't take these debates personally. I have a blast debating with the people here but sometimes I wonder if I go to far. :unsure:
Meh, I'm not particularly interested in Loeb's Hulk, but I'm not really that worried about Thor's hammer. Bad guys have been manipulating it for years (riding it when it returns to Thor, removing its enchantments, etc), so Loeb's use of it isn't particularly controversial.
As someone else pointed out, Loeb isn't even the first person to present the "lack of gravity" scenario.
Loeb is obviously trying to create a new superstrong villain who is a Hulk-level "threat" in the Marvel universe which, post-World War Hulk, is no easy feat (World War Hulk beat up EVERYONE!). Having Red Hulk beat up Cloak & Dagger or the Runaways isn't going to make him look formidable. He beats up on She-Hulk, Hulk, Thor, etc ... conversations, arguments, and discussions are started on comic message boards. "No way so-and-so could have beaten so-and-so because in issue #113..." Back issues are consulted. Previous feats are debated. Attention is drawn to the comic.
Anyway,having the new baddie on the block beat up on the good guys during the first round is nothing new. I'm sure the goodies will rally and return the status quo.
OT, Captmorgan72 ... did you ever end up reading that Avengers storyline where the Masters of Evil invade Avengers mansion? If so, what did you think?
i dont know if that questions for anybody but i read it and yeah it was believable.they caught the avengers with their pants down.hardly anyone was at the mansion,the ones there were lower power leveled,(except jarvis),well thought out assault,and it was a quick assault with alot of power.oh yeah...and herc was drunk & drugged.but they rallied and came out on top.
i think i mustve missed reading Hulk #3, how did banner get out of that jail he was in?
i guess hulk reverted back at the end of WWH when hulk and sentry released all that energy, it just burned out both of them.
and i gotta stick up for loeb, ultimates 3 may stink, but seriously, what in the ultimate line doesn't right now?
Loeb and Sale are doing Cap: White and that's already off to a great start.
does everyone forget Jeph Loeb's incredible track record, and work with Heroes? (not to mention Teen Wolf!!!)
Um...ultimate spider-man. Also, Ultimate X-men is back on a rise until Loeb takes over and kills a bunch of the cast...so...yeah. There's also Ultimate Origins. Ultimate Ironman II and Ultimate Human were good too, so that line does hold some merit. Also, tv and comics are two different mediums. :P Even people who loved Long Halloween said it doesn't hold up after a few readings and the plots he's doing now can also be found in that book...it's kinda odd to me. Every book he's doing right now (not including cap since im avoiding that until more comes out) has a mystery going on (Red hulk and Black Panther). He's off his game in Ultimates and Red Hulk, me thinks. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed something by Loeb. :S
Anyway, I could take the burned out reasoning if Sentry wasn't still running around as fresh as a daisy. But yeah, this should have been stated in the first few issue instead of just being dragged out. As to your question, while Red hulk and A-bomb/Rick fought, they cracked the cell holding Banner allowing him to hulk out and escape.
Well, I believe part of the reason Hulk was so strong during WWH was that he was "madder than he's ever been". Now that WWH is over, and certain things have been revealed about who's really responsible for the things that happened to Hulk, I think he feels more guilty and/or sad and less angry, therefore less powerful (possibly less smart aswell?).
Quote from: detourne_me on August 10, 2008, 08:29:55 PM
i think i mustve missed reading Hulk #3, how did banner get out of that jail he was in?
i guess hulk reverted back at the end of WWH when hulk and sentry released all that energy, it just burned out both of them.
and i gotta stick up for loeb, ultimates 3 may stink, but seriously, what in the ultimate line doesn't right now?
Loeb and Sale are doing Cap: White and that's already off to a great start.
does everyone forget Jeph Loeb's incredible track record, and work with Heroes? (not to mention Teen Wolf!!!)
I haven't really ever liked Loeb's writing, so his "incredible" track record doesn't do much for me.
Quote from: Jakew on August 10, 2008, 04:29:20 AM
Meh, I'm not particularly interested in Loeb's Hulk, but I'm not really that worried about Thor's hammer. Bad guys have been manipulating it for years (riding it when it returns to Thor, removing its enchantments, etc), so Loeb's use of it isn't particularly controversial.
As someone else pointed out, Loeb isn't even the first person to present the "lack of gravity" scenario.
Loeb is obviously trying to create a new superstrong villain who is a Hulk-level "threat" in the Marvel universe which, post-World War Hulk, is no easy feat (World War Hulk beat up EVERYONE!). Having Red Hulk beat up Cloak & Dagger or the Runaways isn't going to make him look formidable. He beats up on She-Hulk, Hulk, Thor, etc ... conversations, arguments, and discussions are started on comic message boards. "No way so-and-so could have beaten so-and-so because in issue #113..." Back issues are consulted. Previous feats are debated. Attention is drawn to the comic.
Anyway,having the new baddie on the block beat up on the good guys during the first round is nothing new. I'm sure the goodies will rally and return the status quo.
OT, Captmorgan72 ... did you ever end up reading that Avengers storyline where the Masters of Evil invade Avengers mansion? If so, what did you think?
I have and I liked it. I can relate with Herc getting his arse kicked fighting drunk, hard to concentrate on what your doing when everything is spinning :lol:
with different personalities of the hulks comes different power levels.he's not as strong/invulnerable when he's mr.fixit and the banner/scientist hulk.he's stronger when he's the child like minded hulk and the tough guy quasi-intelligent hulk(WWH).both those are fueled by explosive hair-triggered anger.they also have more ego thrown in also.(the strongest there is!)
In my opinion, that whole issue was just poorly written.
- Thor was a match for the Hulk before he got the Odin power. Now that he has it, he is... weaker? Dumber? I mean, he's no rocket scientist, but all Thor tried was punching and hammer swings. Red hulk even mentioned that Thor's fighting skills were legendary... so where were they?
- The "magical" enchantment" was explained as gravity? Just plain stupid. Loeb's writing did for Thor what Highlander II did for Highlander: It turned something cool, mythological and even magical into something very trite, poorly explained with simple science. In both cases, the latter explanation greatly defaces the original creation.
- Thor's a god. No wait... Thor is now a god to other gods... and this 5 issue old red Hulk shrugs him off like he's nothing. I guess we have our new Galactus, or Beyonder, or whatever.
I'm not saying Thor had to win. I mean, it happens in the pages of the Hulk, and everybody knows a hero is at their strongest in their own comic. But they way they wrote it, it may as well have been Jubille fighting red Hulk for all the difference Thor made. Loeb wasted a great chance to write a legendary clash of titans and turned it into tripe.
Oh, and this..
"Finally someone who is using their head and not crying foul play about their beloved Thor! I love Thor as much as the next guy but how Rulk managed to use Mjolnir against Thor is creative, not crappy writing as many of you here are saying. Loeb was thinking outside of the box and not following the same old same old. "
Someone liking Thor doesn't make their opinion any less valid than yours. That was arrogant. In my opinion, Loeb's writing was a crappy and denied the fans a great fight, whoever would have won.
Quote from: Mowgli on August 11, 2008, 10:37:50 AM
In my opinion, that whole issue was just poorly written.
- Thor was a match for the Hulk before he got the Odin power. Now that he has it, he is... weaker? Dumber? I mean, he's no rocket scientist, but all Thor tried was punching and hammer swings. Red hulk even mentioned that Thor's fighting skills were legendary... so where were they?
- The "magical" enchantment" was explained as gravity? Just plain stupid. Loeb's writing did for Thor what Highlander II did for Highlander: It turned something cool, mythological and even magical into something very trite, poorly explained with simple science. In both cases, the latter explanation greatly defaces the original creation.
- Thor's a god. No wait... Thor is now a god to other gods... and this 5 issue old red Hulk shrugs him off like he's nothing. I guess we have our new Galactus, or Beyonder, or whatever.
I'm not saying Thor had to win. I mean, it happens in the pages of the Hulk, and everybody knows a hero is at their strongest in their own comic. But they way they wrote it, it may as well have been Jubille fighting red Hulk for all the difference Thor made. Loeb wasted a great chance to write a legendary clash of titans and turned it into tripe.
Oh, and this..
"Finally someone who is using their head and not crying foul play about their beloved Thor! I love Thor as much as the next guy but how Rulk managed to use Mjolnir against Thor is creative, not crappy writing as many of you here are saying. Loeb was thinking outside of the box and not following the same old same old. "
Someone liking Thor doesn't make their opinion any less valid than yours. That was arrogant. In my opinion, Loeb's writing was a crappy and denied the fans a great fight, whoever would have won.
Now why would you say this "Someone liking Thor doesn't make their opinion any less valid than yours" I completely agree with you and I am not sure why you said this. You think Loeb's writing was crappy and I don't, that's cool, everybody has their own opinion. A writer can't please everyone with their ideas obviously. I love Thor, he's one of my all time favorite marvel characters and mythological characters. Despite being a huge Thor fan I was not bothered by Rulk beating up on him. Obviously Loeb is trying to build up Rulk to be the next big threat for the marvel universe and beating down someone like Thor is a given. I have no doubt that Thor will come back to kick his arse. As far as how the enchantment on Mjolnir was handled, I thought that was clever. Apparently it's not the first time a writer used that angle either. Either way it's just a story and certainly nothing to get worked up over. Comics are full of stories that contradict previous stories and violates canon already established. So this is nothing new. In the end did it entertain you? It did me.
Captmorgan72: This quote, "Finally someone who is using their head and not crying foul play about their beloved Thor!" says that you think Thor fans are only crying "foul play" because they love Thor. Being a fan doesn't make someone's opinion of a fictional character any less valid.
And as far as being entertained goes, it seems like the vast majority of readers were not (check other boards as well). I certainly wasn't. I am a fan of Iron Man and Captain America. I didn't really care who won this fight, as long as it was good. And it was far from good. One character stomps all over the other who barely fights back at all. The loser acts like an idiot throughout the fight. And let's face it, it wasn't even a fight. Thor did nothing the red Hulk didn't shrug off. One panel of the red Hulk saying, "You suck and I don't" tells as much story as that entire issue. I'm sorry I paid for it. I expected an epic battle of titans, but I got a mild drive by. I guess it's entertaining if you like watching an adult beat on a child (because that's how one sided it was).
I will sincerely reconsider anything Loeb writes from now on (that perspective also inlcudes what he has done to the Ultimates).
Oh gods, why bring up the Ultimates? Thats not fair.
what this thread needs is a serious injection of some Thorpool!!
(http://unfluffybunny.net/images/thorpool1.JPG)
[spoiler]
(http://unfluffybunny.net/images/thorpool2.JPG)
[/spoiler]
lol tell me how that happened
trying not to threadjack so very quick summary...
Loki tried to break thor by convincing him that deadpool was his son and the hammer had chosen him over thor (turns out deadpool had a fake hammer mjolnir and the real one was invisible
so deadpool make thor look like a fool but also kicked cap in the nuts
i've really missed a lot with this character
Haven't been to a comic book shop in more than a year (can't get them in China) so I pick up Hulk 5 at my old hangout. This was complete trash. I'm not a Thor fan and I don't care if he gets his butt kicked, but this was just stupid on too many levels.
Hulk's book now is complete TRASH. I use it in the bathroom when I am out of Charmin. Look, Ed McGuinness's artwork is a marvel, but it is being wasted here. This book sucks in every way possible. The characters are all one-note cardboard cutouts of themselves. The characterization is way off. This is not Hulk: Gray and the characters need to stop being written as if it is still that time period in the Hulk's history. The Incredible Hulk was "gravage" and the ruler of a planet. He was a freaking KING! After the mostly awesome Planet Hulk storyline he goes right back to the status quo of Bruce turning into the Hulk when he is stressed and the old "hulk Smash" baby talking!? What is going on here? I gave them 5 issues to try to explain and try to win me over, but it is not happening. Where is the build up? The mystery of who the Red Hulk is has not been solved and there are red herrings all over the place. Bruce is a baby talker again for explained reason and Rick Jones is the baby talking A-Bomb. (probably so named because he is not smart enough to even say Abomination). I can't take it. I feel stupider for continuing to read this garbage and insulted by Marvel that after the World War Hulk that they feel fans wanted this. You know, with BND and now this it seems that the only idea that is popular at the "house of Ideas" is to hit the rewind button on their characters as opposed to letting them breathe and evolve.
so, i read spoilers that thor beat hulk this issue...pretty lamely. And Rulkie's identity is STILL unknown. Why do people keep supporting this book. Let Loeb go and let Hulk go back to good stories.
MJB will not purchase a copy of any issue of this book.
Why? None of your business, that's why!!
-MJB
I enjoyed it quite a bit. I thought it was a fun read. :P
Yeah, Thor got some creds back in this one. Hulk too, though, why is Hulk baby talk again?
I dunno if you can say either got too much credit back. Rulkie was still a threat to Hulk until near the end of the book and Thor interrupted the fight, got in some quick hits, and Hulk finished it out. Imo, it proves to serve that Rulkie can take on two big threats and still be able to fight for 20 pages until overheated or w/e. And I have a fundamental problem with a book being only able to go on based on a character's secret, artificial drama, and fighting just to fight. Of course, Loeb worked in his famous twists by having three people know who Rulkie is and placing one of those peeps on a even darker path. Yay. -_-
Also, why have none of you guys pointed out how OOC Namor was in this book? He may be more mature now...but he's nowhere near that kind and last I remember...Ironman and Namor still have issues.