Apparently, ratings for Heroes dropped for this episode--drastically.  It was one of the bottom shows this week, instead of being on top, like it used to be.

While I agree that the season has been slow starting off, I think that some people are being a little too hard on the show because of the amount of spoilers/theories that we are getting via the net.

It's the end of week 3 and we have some key developments:

[spoiler]

• Kaito Nakamura is dead and it seems someone is gunning for the "older generation" of Heroes.  The general assumption is that the "older generation" are the nine members of The Company.  Parkman is investigating the death of Kaito and presumably will be aided soon by at least Nathan Petrelli. Could the mysterious "Kane" character that has been eluded to be involved?
• Parkman and Mohinder are caring for Molly who is still suffering from the nightmares about this mystery figure and from an illness we presume is The Shanti Virus. Could the mysterious "Kane" character that has been eluded to be involved?
• Noah "HRG" Bennett, Mohinder, and The Haitian are looking for the "lost paintings of Issac Mendez".  They have two of them.  Mohinder has gone undercover to try and locate them.  The Company has a new figurehead in "Bob" and I wager that there is more to Bob that we currently suspect. Could the mysterious "Kane" character that has been eluded to be involved?
• Nikki has left her son in the care of his paternal grandmother in New Orleans.  She has done this because she is apparently either ill,  is looking for a cure for her powers or both.  It is suspected that Nana has a power.  It is known that Micah's cousin does.
• Sylar is back!  He killed Candace but was unable to access her powers despite apparently draining them.  He is unable to access any of his powers that he has stolen.  It is presumed that Sylar is being held by The Company, but is he? Could the mysterious "Kane" character that has been eluded to be involved?
• Kenshi is not the grand hero that Hiro thought him to be initially.  However, with Hiro's coaching, Kenshi may well become that legend very quickly.  As for the mysterious disappearance of Kenshi and The Princess that is noted in the legend?  It might be safe to say that Hiro could very well bring them back to the present with him.  He may also find them waiting for him in the present.
• Peter Petrelli is in Cork, Ireland with no memories of who he is and how he got there.  We know he has a new power (the lighting zapping) and we know he has a dark side now.  We also know that Peter has become willing to leave whatever past he doesn't remember behind him for Caitlin.  And last but not least, Peter is believed dead by his mother and brother.  It's been four months since anyone has apparently seen him at the beginning of the episode but this is not likely the case.  So, what happened to Peter in those four months? 
• Claire is trying to adjust to her new "incognito" existence.  How long will this last?  Apparently not long, as West has already learned her secret.  West has a secret of his own . . . not that he can fly but that he has a grudge against Claire's adopted father. 
• And last but not least: Maya and Alejandro.  The pair that many fans here are quickly writing off.  However, I've noticed a few things about their story that seems VERY methodical and well planned.
  
  
  • Week 1 - We are introduced to them and we learn about Maya's power.  Her "black tears" are fatal to anyone around her.
  • Week 2 - We learn that Alejandro has the power to counteract her tears and absorb her "pain" into him where he neutralizes the tears and those in the immediate area that she has affected.  We also are given the hint that its believed her tears could kill "The Devil himself". 
  • Week 3 - While Maya has been reluctant to use her power in the past.  She very willingly uses her ability to free her brother as she knows her brother can counteract the act.  They pick up an American whose car bears a resemblance to the car that was stolen from Claire in the week two episode. 

[/spoiler]

While things are coming together slowly, things are coming together.  The writers obviously have a plan but rather that plan works as they have envisioned remains to be seen.

Yes, I do agree with you.  In fact, in many ways, things are coming together much more quickly than in Season 1.

However, the fact that new/casual viewers are finding this show confusing, frustrating and impossible to follow is already hurting it and may doom the show, especially as they are advertising and pushing it for new viewers.

G4 is picking up Heroes re-runs.

Got an e-mail and they're going to do Season 1 marathon on Oct 27th and 28th, then they're going to start re-running Season 2 episodes on Saturday nights at 10pm EST starting November 3rd.

That, I have no problem with, but they're also going to have a post-show after each episode on Saturdays, hosted by Kevin P and Blair Butler. Not too fond of that idea, unless it means a shuffle in the schedule that means the Man Show re-runs or some other crap gets dropped.

No ones arguing with your recap of the events, Mr. H.  Its the dunderheaded, heavy handed implementation that bothers us.

[spoiler]
But who is this "Kane" you keep referring to?  I've never heard anything about him.

I think its fairly obvious that the killer is Kenzei:
a) He's immortal, so he's alive in the present
b) Hiro is going to abscond with the swordmakers daughter - there's your motive
c) He fits the build of the figure in the hoodie that pushed Hiro's dad off the building.
d) The fact that he has Claire's power means he'd survive the fall. [/spoiler]

As for the rest of it, the show will be VASTLY improved, and I will take back about half of what I said if next weeks episode has at least one (preferably both) of the following scenes:

[spoiler]
a) A very alive Candace watching Sylar freak the heck out along with several other armed guards.

b) Peter(or Hot Irish sister, either works) opening the box while the other one sleeps after shagging

[/spoiler]

Bredon, the only point I was arguing was in reference to the "inconsequential storyline" comment made by IPS.  As for your comments about my "dunderheaded, heavy-handed implementation", I don't see anything being said negative or positive about my recap method of trying to illustrate my point about rather or not the Alejandro and Maya storyline and rather or not it will be important to the overall story.  I believe it will be and I also believe that the writers have a very deliberate pace, even if that pace is a bit slow.  It's slow because of the amount of stories being told. 

[spoiler] As for the mysterious "Kane" character: No idea on who the character is or was intended to be.  Just that the character was referenced by the creators over the summer.  The reference was made in relation to both "the being that could see Molly" and "to someone who will be very involved with Sylar's storyline".  If I recall, the character was said to be immortal (not capable of resurrecting himself) which is the reason that many are expecting it to be Kenshi.  However, material up on the Heroes website right now is suggesting otherwise.  There are suggestions is that Kenshi is a healer (like Claire) and that he is not immortal but will be brought forward in time by Hiro. [/spoiler]

Quote from: Mr. Hamrick on October 12, 2007, 05:48:04 PM
Bredon, the only point I was arguing was in reference to the "inconsequential storyline" comment made by IPS.  As for your comments about my "dunderheaded, heavy-handed implementation", I don't see anything being said negative or positive about my recap method of trying to illustrate my point about rather or not the Alejandro and Maya storyline and rather or not it will be important to the overall story.  I believe it will be and I also believe that the writers have a very deliberate pace, even if that pace is a bit slow.  It's slow because of the amount of stories being told. 

[spoiler] As for the mysterious "Kane" character: No idea on who the character is or was intended to be.  Just that the character was referenced by the creators over the summer.  The reference was made in relation to both "the being that could see Molly" and "to someone who will be very involved with Sylar's storyline".  If I recall, the character was said to be immortal (not capable of resurrecting himself) which is the reason that many are expecting it to be Kenshi.  However, material up on the Heroes website right now is suggesting otherwise.  There are suggestions is that Kenshi is a healer (like Claire) and that he is not immortal but will be brought forward in time by Hiro. [/spoiler]

Whoops! Sorry I wasn't clear!  I didn't mean YOU were dunderheaded and heavy handed, I meant the SHOW was being dunderheaded and heavy handed in the way they were showing the events you cleanly and smartly recapped.!

Sorry for any offense, none was inteded, I assure you! :(

Just popping in here to say one thing.

[spoiler]

Quote from: bredon7777 on October 12, 2007, 05:20:50 PM
d) The fact that he has Claire's power means he'd survive the fall.

Ando looked down at most about 5 seconds after they fell off the roof.  I highly doubt he could have landed, regenerated, gotten back up, and ran out of sight in that time.  And even if he did, he would have left a pool of blood where he landed.
[/spoiler]

I'm wondering if Heroes might not be better if each week they showed more story but less characters:

Week 1- 15 min each of Hiro/Claire/Peter

Week 2 - 15 minutes each of Parkman/Mohinder/Sylar

Week 3 - 15 minutes of Micah/Niki/Nathan

Then back to week 1, etc

Of course there'd be some overlap- Mr. Bennet appears in both Mohinder and Claire's storylines, etc.  You could adjust the times as the threads weave closer together, as well.

I think it might work better than trying to connect with every character, every week. What do you think?

I was browsing the Heroes site and found something--it's Zeroes, Episode one!

Yep, the viral marketing parody has now spawned its own parody series.

Unfortunately, I can't get a direct link from the heroes website.  Fortunately, it's up on Youtube as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX3TRcKNf5E

Lots of straight up parody scenes of Heroes episode 1.  Hee hee.

According to the advertisements for season 2, one of the "heroes" is responsible for the  murder of Kaito Nakamura (aka George Takei).

-MJB

Sigh... Looks like my theory about Candace and Sylar has been utterly demolished.

[spoiler]So it looks like Candace really was fool enough to get killed by Sylar, who would then have attempted to eat her brain to get her powers.

I have another theory as to why Sylar didn't get her powers from eating her brain, though.

Candace had no brain.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Yes, what a shame.  However, the silver lining is that he can now kill Maya and Alejandro, which will improve the show immensley. [/spoiler]

ETA: [spoiler]
Parkman, you are an idiot. Molly gave you the building address and the floor. There was no reason to push her- how many apartments can there BE per floor! I hope your proud of yourself. So best guess- Molly Astral projects when she searches for someone, and Parkman's father has some way of keeping her from returning to her body.[/spoiler]


Overall, better than the complete mess that was last week, but still not up to what I expect on this show.

I like Micha's cousin quite a bit- [spoiler] She's basically Taskmaster, yes? [/spoiler]

[spoiler]
I loved the
Matt-Petrelli storyline.  Could have actually done without the rest of it, although the Maya-Sylar part was at least an improvement.

I do find the cousin's copy any skill she see's ability interesting--and it makes her another potentially overpowered character.  They don't learn do they?
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Yes, bredon, it seems she's got the same power as Taskmaster. However, I wonder if it only works on stuff she sees on tv.....

Nice 619 on the robber.[/spoiler]

Cat
[spoiler]
Gotta disagree here.  There's a big difference between skills and powers.  All the skills in the world wont help her against anyone with a power.

She might be overpowered for normal people, but then normal people arent what this show is about. [/spoiler]

[spoiler]I like how the powers of relatives seem to be somewhat similar.

Micah has a cybernetic brain in order to speak with machines.....not her brain and body
are almost hotwired like a machine in order to take in and store information from TV signals.

That is why when Micah went and hugged her....he could see her dreams and such because she is like a living machine almost.
I do wonder what their Grandmother's power is though.

Also, Matt's father might have similar mental powers especially because he can see/sense Molly's gift.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
It's a little early to be jumping to the "she can only copy what she sees on TV" conclusion, isn't it?  I agree that this power isn't "over-powered" so to speak, as it would only allow her to copy the abilities of normal, if skilled, people.

Sylar's arrival actually made Maya & bro. a lot more interesting to me.  His "golly" in response to learning they'd killed someone made me laugh out loud.  I still need a good reason as to why his powers aren't working (could it be as simple as a mental block due to his broken watch?), and I think they missed an opportunity in having him manipulated by Candice, but things are looking up.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
I doubt Sylar ate her brain.  There was blood all over his hands, but none on his mouth.
[/spoiler]

There wasn't much I liked about this episode, though maybe that's just me.  The pacing was very slow, there were big plotholes, and several characters exhibited an alarming lack of common sense (don't get me started on Claire's storyline, just don't).  I do have a few comments, though.

[spoiler]
I don't have much concern about Monica getting overpowered.  From what I've heard, it involves duplicating specific physical motions.  I suppose she could become a really good martial artist, maybe a few other skills like lockpicking, holding a gun right, etc. but there's plenty of skills that she can't master.  And, as bredon7777 says, it doesn't help her much against someone who has powers of their own.

I found the depiction of New Orleans to be better than most.  The house looks like one you would find here.  The "you can just walk down Bourbon Street for that" line, in addition to being hilarious, rang very true, as was the one about FEMA trailers.  I could easily imagine someone here saying that.  On the other hand, the Southern accents, particularly on Monica's friend, were too thick.  Also, despite having Katrina be a major part of a character's background, they apparently didn't research its actual effects much.  Thanks to a lot of people moving away after Katrina, unemployment was drastically reduced.  I remember hearing about a year ago that New Orleans had a full employment economy, and anyone who wanted work could get it.  Nitpicking a little, in Louisiana, counties are called parishes.

In general, I like most of the New Orleans characters, especially Monica.  They're a big improvement over the other new characters.  Her storyline, like the rest of the episode was a little slow, though.

Is it really necessary for Maya to use her powers every. Single. Episode?  And thanks to Derrek getting killed, their storyline of last episode was mostly pointless.  They could have just had Alejandro steal a car and not get caught and there would have been no further effect on the story.

Talavar, Sylar's watch has been broken since he first appeared last season.  It's even still on the same time, seven minutes to midnight.

Besides, meeting the new characters, Nathan, Molly, Mohinder and Matt's shared storyline was the only good part of this episode.  The scene where Molly located Matt's father was great.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

QuoteIs it really necessary for Maya to use her powers every. Single. Episode?  And thanks to Derrek getting killed, their storyline of last episode was mostly pointless.  They could have just had Alejandro steal a car and not get caught and there would have been no further effect on the story.

Ah, but you're forgetting... in every episode Sylar is in now, he must kill someone. It's like the riddler with his riddles...even when he tries to not kill people, he ends up killing them.

Meh, that part blew, but I liked everything else. The fact that Parkman's dad is the baddie is horribly anticlimatic (as soon as Nathan handed the photo to him I just went, "Yeah, it's his dad, of course"), but the scenes waere good enough I could overlook it. 

I dissagree about family's having similar powers, because no matter how you toss it, Pyrokenetic+Flier does not equal Healing.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on October 15, 2007, 08:01:52 PM
I dissagree about family's having similar powers, because no matter how you toss it, Pyrokenetic+Flier does not equal Healing.

Nor does superstrength + phasing = technopathy.

[spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on October 15, 2007, 08:01:52 PMThe fact that Parkman's dad is the baddie is horribly anticlimatic (as soon as Nathan handed the photo to him I just went, "Yeah, it's his dad, of course"), but the scenes waere good enough I could overlook it.

My theory is that the father isn't the bad guy. I think it's a red herring.
[/spoiler]

-MJB

[spoiler]
I missed it when I was watching, but apparently Matt said that Janice was pregnant with someone else's kid.  Even though Five Years Gone established that that kid has a power.  It says a lot about how low my expectations have gotten that this doesn't bother me in the least.
[/spoiler]

Could it be Bob? Anyways, did anyone notice if Kensai was in the pic?

I liked this episode, overall. Still some holding pattern malarkey, but I wasn't constantly annoyed as I watched it.

[spoiler]Random comments;

I like that Nathan is pulling his crap together. Teaming up with Parkman and, presumably, Mohinder and Molly, is a good thing. It was a little predictable that Matt's father is one of the twelve along with Bob, a.k.a. Ned "Needlenose" Reyerson.

Did anyone else get the impression that Mrs. Petrelli confessed hoping for some protection in jail? I don't like the premise, but  don't see where else that is going. Unless the killer is some sort of redemption judge who kills unless he thinks the target has made amends for his crimes. What Hiro's dad mentioned might fit in with that. Still, pretty odd.

Also, Ohura wasn't in that photo of the twelve older specials that Nathan found. Take that to mean what you will. It's possible that some of the people in the photo weren't in the group of older specials or that the composition of the group changed over time.

Also, Kensei wasn't in it either, unless he is supposed to look considerably different now.

Do we really even know that all of the people in that photo have powers? I think Bob sort of implied that, but I am not certain. I don't think we ever saw Sulu using a power. We've only really seen that some of them do. It seems to me that at some point Nathan (and Maybe Mohinder, who knows Bob has a power) should realize that many people in the photo have powers and start asking his mom some questions (e.g. what powers did she and his dad have?).

Nice touch with the symbol in Molly's eyes in the "He is the nightmare man!" scene.

It was out of character for Matt and Mohinder not to think of Molly's safety after she had given him the address and floor of the apartment where her father was and then she says, "He knows I'm here. He's coming!" I mean, Matt would have pulled her out at that point, not pressed her for the apartment number. Admittedly, he doesn't really know what danger his father poses to Molly and some apartment buildings (though not that one) have dozens of apartments per floor, but he does know the guy's real name (whether or not he still uses it) and what he looks like. There is no point in putting her at risk to save himself a couple hours of stakeout work.

It would be kinda cool if Matt's dad recognizes Matt while Matt is reading Molly's mind, trying to bring her back around.

We don't know that Monica only learns skills she's seen on TV, though that's a likely read of the scene, if only because maybe they finally are trying to establish some link between the powers of related specials. It will be interesting to see where they go with this. If she can acquire powers and not just skills, then we may have another uber on our hands. But, maybe she can only acquire skills she sees demonstrated, not ones that just happen. I'll bother pointing out the obvious: just about anything you can see in real life, you can show on a TV. If that's really her mechanism, then she may want to invest in a video camera.

BTW, I don't know that Micah sense her thoughts because of her connection to TV-related skill acquisition. It could be, of course, but I thought that line was a throwaway.

On a purely silly note: Four episodes in, I am voting Monica hottest new character and in the running for hottest overall.  :cool:

FWIW, we have no more idea what happened to Candace at the end of this episode than at the end of the last one. It would really suck if she was bright enough to transport Sylar thousands of miles to the coast of Mexico, treat his injuries and maintain an illusory world for him for all this time and she completely forgets that he's a killer. I know we can't say one way or the other, but I would prefer to think that she or her employers decided to let him think he escaped.

I agree that the Wonder Twin story is much more interesting now that Sylar is part of it. And, I totally agree that the Derek storyline was wasted space. It's more of the cut-and-paste approach to their arc that we've seen before. At least now there is some connectedness to the rest of the show. And, yes, Sylar's "golly" was classic.  :D

As a side note, the last time Alejandro cured Maya's victims, afterward they seemed weakened by the experience. Sylar seemed to recover very quickly, even though we know he is still recovering from serious injuries. Maybe he was cured earlier than Derek and the others were, though, since Alejandro was right there.

Claire's storyline has taken top spot for most annoying (displacing the Wonder Twins arc).

No Peter this episode, but I don't miss it. I like the character and have some interest to see if his arc becomes interesting. But, I have the feeling that it's all filler to keep him from reconnecting with the others until later in the season.

Basically ditto for Hiro.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 15, 2007, 10:51:18 PM
Did anyone else get the impression that Mrs. Petrelli confessed hoping for some protection in jail? I don't like the premise, but  don't see where else that is going. Unless the killer is some sort of redemption judge who kills unless he thinks the target has made amends for his crimes. What Hiro's dad mentioned might fit in with that. Still, pretty odd.

She explained her reasonings to Parkman via mind reading. She said that if they keep digging into their past they will surely find out about the "heroes". While it can be argued that she wanted to be arrested for the protection her explanation to Parkman is all we have to go on right now.

Quote from: stumpyFWIW, we have no more idea what happened to Candace at the end of this episode than at the end of the last one. It would really suck if she was bright enough to transport Sylar thousands of miles to the coast of Mexico, treat his injuries and maintain an illusory world for him for all this time and she completely forgets that he's a killer. I know we can't say one way or the other, but I would prefer to think that she or her employers decided to let him think he escaped.

This raises the question that if Candace and her employer decided to allow Sylar to escape what do they want from him? Sylar made the comment about being hunted, who's hunting him?

Quote from: stumpyAs a side note, the last time Alejandro cured Maya's victims, afterward they seemed weakened by the experience. Sylar seemed to recover very quickly, even though we know he is still recovering from serious injuries. Maybe he was cured earlier than Derek and the others were, though, since Alejandro was right there.

None of Maya's victims have been cured as quickly as Sylar was. It's quite possible that he didn't have the sickness long enough to be weakened.
[/spoiler]

-MJB

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 15, 2007, 10:51:18 PM
On a purely silly note: Four episodes in, I am voting Monica hottest new character and in the running for hottest overall.  :cool:

From the preview for next week, we can see Elle (played by Kristen Bell) will finally make her debut.  I'm rather excited and she'll definitely get my vote  :P
[/spoiler]

A prediction/theory

[spoiler]
Matt's dad is not the real baddie.  He's actually hiding from the real one or from the Company, or both.  Molly's a little girl, so just because she thinks he's so bad doesn't really mean he is.  He, likewise, has no way of knowing who it is that can see him, but probably assumes it's the bad guy and/or Company and is merely trying to scare whoever it is away to protect himself.  When he realizes it's just a little girl that his son has adopted, the nightmares and scariness will stop.
[/spoiler]

This is sort of a wild theory, so it may not even be close.

[spoiler]Has anyone else noticed that, despite saving the cheerleader and stopping the bomb, everything is still spirling down to the events of "5 Years Later"? Whenever Sylar's extra powers stop being blocked (given the cockroach next to whats his face's body, it's likely the actual "bad guy" who's doing it) He'll have Candice's abilities, Nathan is sort of unofficially teaming up with Parkman and Mohinder, Clair has begun her fate of being continuously in hiding, etc.

But yeah, the more I think about it, the more I agree that Parkman's dad isn't the baddie. But if he isn't, why is he giving molly nightmares and taken her mind captive? Is it an attempt to send some kind of message?[/spoiler]

Tomato, see my theory above.