I'm not a huge DC fan and I didn't realize that Batman has the "he always wins" power like Cap does.  I had this discussion on the JohnByrne Forum a few months ago and nearly everyone said the same thing...Cap alway wins.  Cap vs. Galactus with the Ultimate Nullifier in one hand and a cosmic cube in the other?  Gotta go with Cap.  I'm sure he'd give some speech that would tug the heart, mind, and soul of the Big G.  You just can't beat Cap.

I think my Superman and Hulk are about even.  I don't really try to replicate the character, I just try to find a  balance for them within my Rumbe Room.

Quote from: wickerman on November 01, 2007, 06:37:06 PM
Ya know like the Wolverine Lobo fight....   or Aquaman/Submariner :)

Mmm... while I wasent looking to make a marvel vs DC discussion that is totally what I ended up doing. Sorry about that! It's just that like you said, the super speed thing always gets on my nerves because he never uses it and the unfettered might... Thor has probably used it only a handful of times. It must annoy you when people use that to end arguments.

But Wolvie Vs Lobo I mean ugh... imagine that gig? "The fans voted that Wolverine wins... and no other hero can help him. Script it by tuesday".

About superman I think that one thing that dosent help him in my rumble room is that he pulls his punches. That means that my superman can do amazing amounts of damage but his default punch is designed to be fast, accurate and do enough damage to knock out your average thug or costumed hero (a la hawkeye). Hulk dosent do uber damage with zero cost punches but he does do one level more. Still mostly superman wins like I said... his flying attack is pretty lethal.

QuoteDid that Wolverine v. Lobo fight ever happen? Talk about pitting the overhyped "bad boy" characters against one another. I am almost sure I have old comics where Lobo holds his own against Superman. I don't mean he can win, but one has to be pretty powerful even to stay standing against Superman, assuming (as per topic) that he isn't written to be a twit. So, I have a hard time imagining that Wolverine is even vaguely in that league. Oh well.  :rolleyes:

IIRC they had Lobo and Wolverine dive behind a bar and Wolverine emerge smoking Lobo's cigar a moment later.  It was VERY weak.   Likewise, Storm beat Wonder Woman by zapping her with lightning, Thor beat Cap Marvel by knocking a ferris wheel over on him and Aquaman squished Namor by having a whale jump out of the water and land on him...   I think i stopped reading comics around that time....

I decided to try out the Hulk vs Superman with my hero files, and to my surprise the Hulk won 3 out of 3, I only watched one of the fights and let the other 2 play out and just checked out who won later, and during the fight I watched it was neck and neck to the very end, after both used a heroic remidy the Hulk was down to 20HP when he KOed Superman.
That just didnt seem right so I checked out closely what when down.   Supes had 340hp and Hulk only had 220 I think, but with Hulks healing that adds another 100 so they were close there.  They both have the same amount of body armor/resistances and both their melees do similar amounts of damage, so what gives?   
Well, it all came down to the Hulks "defence mechanism" set to "strength through pain".  While normally they both do between 18-30 points of damage, but after the Hulk starts loosing health he does 30-60 points of damage.  So if it wasnt for that Supes would win every time. 
I'm gonna have to try and tweek Supes to be able to take down the Hulk at least 2 out of 3 times.   Aw man, now that means I gotta go through all my Kryptonions/Daxonionsomites or what ever they are called now.

Quote from: USAgent on November 05, 2007, 07:56:04 PMWell, it all came down to the Hulks "defence mechanism" set to "strength through pain".  While normally they both do between 18-30 points of damage, but after the Hulk starts loosing health he does 30-60 points of damage.  So if it wasnt for that Supes would win every time. 
I'm gonna have to try and tweek Supes to be able to take down the Hulk at least 2 out of 3 times. 

Before you go tweaking, does the AI ever overpower melee attacks (I'm still playing the first flavor of the game, and I only tend to notice it overpowering ranged attacks)?  And even so, is an overpowered punch from a standard Superman hero file really indicitive of what he can really dish out?  I think the way he took Hulk down in the pre-Amalgam showdown was the right way to do it.....nail him so hard, so quick, that he doesn't have time to get mad.  Perhaps it would call for a completely seperate Superman hero file, since Clark typically tends to hold back on his powers.  There aren't many foes that he goes full out on until you get up to Darkseid/Silver Surfer/Thanos/Mongul/Doomsday level, and he's intelligent enough to know that if he's going to bring it to someone of that level, he needs to bring *all* of it.  Perhaps you could call it Superman Unleashed, or something like that.  Speed should be amped up to 10, Strength should already be there (unless you reserve that for Galactus level cosmic beings, or whatever).  I don't recall off the top of my head if there are any attributes that increase Strength for melee damage, but all melee attacks should be maxed out (in intensity, speed, and level), as well as heat vision.  I'm not so sure if the breath attacks should be increased much, but it might be feasible (depending on which interpretation you're using) to give him an extra vision attack -- a radiation damage extreme X-Ray vision (think Daxamite kid in the LSH Servants of Darkness/Darkseid story arc).  On second thought, he probably wouldn't mess around with that, as I don't think he could ever pump out enough to scratch the level foe this would be aimed at, anyway.

So, am I completely off the deep end on this one, or does it sound not halfway bad?  ;)

I think it's a decent idea to have more than one version of a character to use when dealing with heavy duty foes. That way, you can reflect the Superman who can take on a Darkseid-type character, even though he wouldn't use that level of power against a normal baddy for fear that one punch would vaporize the target into a pale red mist.

The only question is when to use one version as opposed to the other. I have a fairly low-powered Supes (compared to the comics, not compared to other FF heroes) that I play in the RR because it's fun to play a character who is challenged by several FF-level characters instead of always needing to put just the ubers on the list to have any fun.

FWIW, my approach is to give him 300%er to use against the tough guys. I think that amps his powers up enough to reflect him "going all out" and also puts a bit more drain on his energy to reflect the extra effort of maintaining that intensity.