Freedom Force verses

[Blitzgott]

Aquaman vs. Man O' War: Aquaman summons sea life to distract MW, whose electric ranged attacks barely phase Aquaman (he could also command some electric eels to disrupt the charge, or form a protective barrier.)  Manny can only take so much from a school of pirahnas or some great white sharks thrown at him.

We don't really know if Man O' War doesn't also has control over sea life, since there's not a single mission in the game that revolves underwater. Also, while Aquaman has control over sea life, Man O' War has control over the sea itself. Remember when he stopped that huge wave on it's tracks with but a thought in order to save himself and Sea Urchin?

So, assuming Man O' War does not have control over sea life, what disadvantage would it give to him when he can go all Moses and split the ocean in half, taking the water from the sea life and leaving them motionless at the dry bottom of where once there was a bunch of water? Not to mention that staying away from water for a long time drains Aquaman's powers, so he would also be prejudiced if Man O' War pulled this stunt.

Also, I'm not even sure if the current Aquaman is stronger than Man O' War, and even if he is, not by a large margin. Man O' War can also fly, and therefore he can just throw electrical attacks in bunches from a safe distance and, eventually, Aquaman would be down for the count. Sure, Aquaman can throw "water blasts" or what have you, but I bet they would have little, if any, effect on Man O' War.

[BentonGrey]

Ha, if it's on land, he could do more than throw water blasts, he could throw cars and trees :P  Not to mention knocking him out of the sky with a telepathic attack.  I mean, think it would be a good fight, but I would deffinetly give it to Arthur.  I mean....after all....he IS the King ;)

[Alaric]

I wonder if we are thinking about these matchups in a reasonable way. There is no value in speculating how a mainstream hero would do against an FF hero by comparing the powers the mainstream guys have in the comics versus the powers the FF heroes have in the game. We have to think about how the mainstream heroes would be represented in the game and go from there.

How is translating the mainstream characters into game terms any more "fair" than translating the FF characters into comic book terms? The original question didn't specify either way, after all.

[stumpy]

When did I say one was more fair than the other? It seemed to me that we were doing neither. Most of our experience with the FF characters is through the game, so we don't have much idea how they would be portrayed in the comics, which is a venue where many more things can happen. A perfect example is that, despite their aquatic natures, we don't have any info on whether Man'O'War or Sea Urchin have any interesting powers when actually in the water because the game doesn't support that environment. But, we have some experience in translating mainstream heroes for use in the game, so I think that is generally easier and requires less speculation.

But, the point is that comparing apples to oranges isn't really the best way to have this discussion.

[Protomorph]

And if we're going to compare aples to oranges, at least use the ones picked the same time.


What I mean is, since Freedom Force is from 1962, the mainstream characters should be the versions from then too. When put that way, Eve Vs Wonder Woman isn't quite so one-sided. Wonder Woman is entangled in Eve's vines, then bound with her own lasso. practically ripped from the pages of the 60's bondage-fest Wonder Woman books. :twisted:

Liberty Lad might stand a chance to 60's Dick Grayson.

Microwave vs Ma Hunkle?

1962 Human Torch could get extinguished by a strong breeze! Like the kind generated when ElDiablo misses by a mile.

Of course, Professor X, even in his chair, can move faster than Mentor.

ManBot could generate an explosion that could decimate Stamford, CT. But even clunky Grey Iron Man would wipe the floor with him.

Actually, Tombstone would do quite a bit of damage on most of the 60's heroes, if only for the possession.

[Podmark]

I think Cable and Deadpool could take out the whole team. Nate's got a powerful built in forcefield that replace telekinesis for offensive and defensive capabilities, the very murky infonet powers that could easily shut down Microwave in a second, teleportin ability, and he's got probably the best munitions arsenal in comics. And Deadpool, will he's just there for fun.

But I agree Freedom Force should be compared to characters from the same era. And you're probably better off comparing them to the Avengers than the JLA, as the JLA tend to have more consistenly "god-like" characters on their team. I think Freedom Force could probably take down the "Kooky Quartet" team of Cap, Pietro, Wanda and Clint pretty easily.

[Alaric]

I think Freedom Force could probably take down the "Kooky Quartet" team of Cap, Pietro, Wanda and Clint pretty easily.

Hmm. A normal four-member FF team (say, Minute Man, Mentor, El Diablo, and ManBot- the first four members) vs "Cap's Kooky Quartet"? If we take the FFers from the end of the game, they certainly outpower that particular team of Avengers, and could likely take them one-on-one. However, when working as a team, the group of Avengers was surprisingly affective- they even took down Dr. Doom once...

Of course, here we come into another of those "apples and oranges" problems. The whole thing about that team was their ability to function as a team (dispite their constant in-fighting). However, that's not really a fair comparison with Freedom Force, since FF's ability to act effectively as a team depends on the skill of the individual player... I don't see any fair way to compare the two teams, frankly.

[Podmark]

Well obviously we can't really compare. Even if the two teams really existed I'm betting one wouldn't always beat the other. It's really just speculative based on comparative power sets, capabilities, personalities, and team dynamics. It's more food for thought than anything definitive.

[Dweomer Knight]

Actually, I think there's a big difference between a golden age team created in the 60's versus one created in the early 0's. 

DK

[BentonGrey]

We really should consider all of the mainstream characters as just beginning their careers, I suppose.  Well, here's one for you:
Ant Man vs. The Ant

Personally, I'd give it to the Ant, since he seems to have a more innate connection with bugs, and he's got his giant ants to call upon.

[lugaru]

We really should consider all of the mainstream characters as just beginning their careers, I suppose.  Well, here's one for you:
Ant Man vs. The Ant

Personally, I'd give it to the Ant, since he seems to have a more innate connection with bugs, and he's got his giant ants to call upon.

Oh dude, even without giant ants the guy is a major scrapper, consistently one of my favorite freedom forcers (reminds me more of spidey) and capable of great damage output. I think he could take several Avengers, although a fight between him and cap would rock.

[Primeguardian616]

Ant would kick total arse :thumbup:

  :D I love Captain America but I would really enjoy Ant to win.

But If the Ant fought Spider-man I think it would be a matter of whom hit whom first.  :banghead:

[Urthman]

ED has his PD vs fire at the "very frequent" (75%-85%) level in FFvT3R, and he is made of fire 100% of the time (so he only takes 25% damage from fire attacks that get through, even when stunned, entangled, etc.).

In the first game, El Diablo is made of flesh, not fire, and gets hurt by fire all the time (including his own explosive projectiles).

But then, when the Human Torch was starting out, he could only keep his flame on for a few minutes, threw tiny little fireballs instead of big blasts of flame, and would get exhausted easily and could be doused by water or wind...

[Blitzgott]

In the first game, El Diablo is made of flesh, not fire, and gets hurt by fire all the time (including his own explosive projectiles).

No. Only El Diablo (MP) is made of flesh. The El Diablo you use in campaing mode is made of fire.

Edit: My mistake. All El Diablos on the first game are made of fire.

[stumpy]

Yeah, his material is and was fire. The only difference in this regard is that his passive defence has a higher frequency now (it went from "frequent" to "very frequent"), but his active defense no longer protects against crushing projectiles.

[Urthman]

Dang, you're right about ED.  I don't know why I had it in my head the other way.