Combining FF and FFvsTTR

[queo_Lita]

So I've been wishing for a while to make FF and FFvsTTR into one whole game. I just think it would be fun. Using the FFvsTTR engine and FFX3 modifications. And so I think I wanna give it a shot. Of course when I tried to start merging the FF levels into FFvsTTR it gave me errors such as it couldn't find stuff, so far.
I understand that I have to merge all the ART from both games into one folder as well sounds, and actually use NIF converter (I'm pretty convinced) to make the ART readable from FFvsTTR. I'm pretty sure I don't have to do anything with the characters as they all are already in FFvsTTR.
So if someone would like to give me a few pointers as to where to start from, please do. I just installed FF and FFvsTTR, then added the FX 3.2 (the one from Alex FF) and then FFX3 to FFvsTTR. So far I'm at zero station.
I figured I need to merge Sounds and Art (not FX and Characters though) in to one folder.
Pointers from here on?
P.S: Actually is there a mod like that already somewhere?
Anyway. :P
Have fun everyone.

[lmalonsof]

"I understand that I have to merge all the ART from both games into one folder"

I would start from Goggles maps, it has the objects added to the .dat

(btw, great work Goggles!!!)

[Previsionary]

It probably would have been best for you to actually start from Alex/tommy's FF1 FFVTTR mod also on Alex's site then add in goggle's map pack.

Though, imo, I think you're taking on A LOT of work for very little gain. The errors alone will probably drive you insane as ff1 and FFVTTR aren't fully compatible.

[queo_Lita]

OK. So I got the first 3 levels to play - and by play I mean to load properly. It's really going to be a lot of work, but I'd really enjoy it if I could make it all one big game. So I basically copied mission and sound files and merged around for a while. The baddies, objectives or anything didn't really load or any cutscenes, but at least I got it to work (on some level).
OK. I'll check with AlexFF's FF1 on FFvsTTR Mod and see what I can get from there. It's nice that he's made it all work like in FF, but I need to make it so that it will continue with the FFvsTTR mishes. Anyway. Won't post a screen or anything right now untill I get something solid going on.
Anyone has any pointer or a warning they'd like to share.

[stumpy]

Can someone explain what the outstanding issues are for this sort of project? Or, obviously, point to a thread where they are discussed...

My impression has been:

1. Scripting issues: there are a few, but most are faily minor and none are even close to insurmountable.

2. Art assets: There are several items here. I know there is an issue with bounding boxes for FF NIFs. If I recall correctly, those can be added in by meshers and by NifSkope. Is that right? I have also read that some of the maps have issues with road textures. I should go back and re-read that thread to see if it was something that was overcome or not. Were there other big issues remaining?

3. Obviously, there is potentially a pretty serious job of rebalancing the FF campaign for FFvT3R. If the technical problems are fixable, I think that task will make or break this sort of project. Ultimately, I would love to be able to play the FF campaign under the FFvT3R engine. That would be a great thing by itself, due to the trouble some people are having keeping FF running with the advance of time ond OSes.

Once you start trying to make one giant fifty-ish mission campaign, there is a real game design problem, aside from issues with compatibility of scripts and art. The characters at the end of the FF campaign are way too powerful for the missions at the start of FFvT3R. But, if you take the characters as they are at the start of FFvT3R and back-project them to what they would be thirty missions earlier at the start of FF, then they would be very weak characters. If one the other hand, you take the characters at the end of FF and rewrite FFvT3R to start there, then you have some pretty uber characters by the end and you end up having to re-write the entire campaign for the second game. Let's face it, Microwave from the end of FF could take down Nuclear Winter (even in Frozen Giant form) by himself. It's worth thinking through that part of the project, IMO...

[Previsionary]

It's not even outstanding issues. It's the minor issues with compatibility that would probably drive a person mad because once the minor issues started piling up...then...you know. It's a large scale project for any one person to take on and I just don't really see much of a gain from it (your post presents some of the problems that I'm sure were brought up before).

Scripting probably wouldn't be a huge issue unless they used commands that didn't carry over into FFVTTR or they used a command that randomly breaks in missions like explode(). Also, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't ff1 have a problem after you reached a certain mission number? Like mission 28 or so? I recall Dr. Mike talking about this. Was it ever fixed in FFVTTR?

[GogglesPizanno]

As someone who did tackle this...

1. Scripting issues: there are a few, but most are faily minor and none are even close to insurmountable.

This is mostly true. the lingering issues don't seem to follow a lot of logic as to why they break, but is definately doable.

2. Art assets: There are several items here. I know there is an issue with bounding boxes for FF NIFs. If I recall correctly, those can be added in by meshers and by NifSkope. Is that right? I have also read that some of the maps have issues with road textures.

My Map pack addresses both of these issues mostly. All the FF1 objects in the map pack have bounding boxes, and the road texture images (and corners) are better. Not 100%, but better.

3. Obviously, there is potentially a pretty serious job of rebalancing the FF campaign for FFvT3R. If the technical problems are fixable, I think that task will make or break this sort of project. Ultimately, I would love to be able to play the FF campaign under the FFvT3R engine.

This is a big one. Not just from a character standpoint as Stumpy said, bit also from a game object standpoint. The game objects in FFvTR as a lot stronger (or FF objects are a lot weaker) in the two games. The mutiplayer version of manbot was able to take out a FF building in 3 punches when I was testing the mappack, so a re-balance across the board for characters and objects would be needed. This would be the most tedious.

Ultimately, I would love to be able to play the FF campaign under the FFvT3R engine. That would be a great thing by itself, due to the trouble some people are having keeping FF running with the advance of time ond OSes.

This was actually a project I took on a while back and got it pretty far. When Alex came back on the scene and released his first version, with an interest in finishing it, I passed on what I had learned to him, and let him run with it. He seems to have vanished again, and so I don't know what the status of his conversion was. I know that the two of us had set up the MODS slightly differently in that (I believe) he was replacing content, whereas I was adding it to the FFvTR content in a seperate directory just for FF stuff (like i did with the Map Pack).

I could look at incorporating the FF1 campaign as a Mappack Add on (include the sounds/cutscenes etc), since almost all of the asset conversions I've already done for the mappack. As IPS said, it would be up to others to work out the balancing etc... but if we wanted to try and turn this into a group effort, I lot of the heavy lifting has already been done.

[queo_Lita]

OK, I didn't mean to cause offense to anyone. I'm a newbie (least to editing, mod making and all). I can barely script (and still need to look at a read me file throughout the process). I decided to work my way from AlexFF's mod since it has all the work I first tried (unsuccessfully) to do in advance. I hope Alex and Tommy wouldn't mind.
Really all I need to do at this point is merge a few files with their FFX3 equivalents (or Data) and copy all of that into FFX3 folder and re-arrange the level set on Campaign. That's the way I see it.
So I could manually do that (which would be sooooo time consuming, and let's face it - there will be ... uhhh ... blood!? Just kidding :P errors.)
Just so you know it's something I wanna do for myself, if you feel that this is repulsive, laughable or whatever please do ignore me.
OK, so is there like a dirt tool or something that can merge DAT files?
EDIT: OK so I worked it out. The game ran. Things were working properly (for the most part). Of coruse I didn't modify a lot so there were conversation errors, things wouldn't play right, objectives showing wrong and all. It's definitely doable, it's just that I don't have the skills to put it right.
I think I'll just stick with Alex and Tommy Boy's mod. When I'm skilled enough I'll try again.
Thanks for the tips though. You guys were right, it's just that those things that seem simple to you, are ... well, impossible for me.
Would have been fun though. Was thinking of few modifications that would balance the game out. So anyways.
Have fun :P

[stumpy]

Don't be discouraged. It's a worthy idea and I think you might have some fun getting into the modding part of the game. It's just not advisable to bite off such a big project as your first go at modding.

[wickerman]

Not to thread jack, but what exactly ARE the scripting issues between the two games?

[GogglesPizanno]

If i remember correctly,  the ones I ran into were mostly cutscene based.
Freezing, Dialogue abruptly ending, interrogation scenes not interacting....

Moving lines from one block to another or commenting out certain lines seemed to fix a lot of the problems. Other instances were cutscenes trying to access character's that weren't there. Stuff like that.

It was really just kind of random weird quirks as opposed to a definitive single issue.

[wickerman]

thanks GP