possible new skins sub forum

[the_ultimate_evil]

this is an idea a few of us  have batted around with some of the confusion and arguing on here, basically it would be a sub forum where skinners/meshers/skopers/fx'ers can post there work when they want full critique and feedback.


there would be no punches pulled though we would still maintain the family friendly and polite atmosphere of the FR community, it would be made permission only, so if you want in you would have to request it, this is done so as someone doesn't post in it and then complain they didn't like what they heard, but agreeing to post in it you know what you're signing up for

for older member it's the same idea we had over at npi

why a sub forum and not a hole new board basically in the past we've shown we're too lazy to go to another site or post our work twice.

i've spoke to a admin about this and they seem ok with it, but i'm posting here to find out who exactly would use it and what the numbers are. if you happy enough with the level of feedback you get know then fair enough, this is just an alternative.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

This subforum already exists: Clicky!  Plus, at no additional charge, you'll enjoy the benefits of the occasional script-kiddie mayhem event...

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[Blkcasanova247]

Well...I tell ya...I like and don't like this idea at the same time. The reason I don't like it is because it feels like we can't be honest and constructive in the "reg" forum....that it's just for niceties and patting each other on the back. However the thing that I like about this idea is that it be a good way for creative folks around here to gather and give good and constructive feedback to help us all grow as artists without anyone "taking" something the wrong way or misconstrueing someone's comments...you know what you're getting into when you sign up. Count me in the "unsure but thinking seriously about it" box. ;) ^_^

[The Enigma]

All I want to know is if it will be limited to people who put their own stuff up for critique. Essentially, if I, as someone who has done some very poor skinning a long time in the past, wanted to go in and critique things, would I have to start skinning again? I only say this because I remember some members who have given fantastic advice without ever having skinned/meshed/etc. anything (Lightshear, anyone? He was giving superb advice long before his first, and I think only, skin) and feel that, although there's the potential problem that if you give critiques on the work of others and do not allow your own work to be seriously critiqued that some people might put others down for the hell of it. I don't think the latter will be a serious problem as this community is probably the most mature I've ever been a part of and some of the people here have been skinning since the really old days of FreedomForceCenter and I've not seen much criticism that was not constructive and useful. I doubt that people will just start slating each other's work left right and centre. I say "yes", assuming that a lapsed skinner like myself can come and marvel at the shinies and the helpful advice.

[AfghanAnt]

All for it but I can see it causing problems like noobs thinking we are being elitists...

[Gremlin]

All for it but I can see it causing problems like noobs thinking we are being elitists...

We're not elitists. We're just better than them.

Honestly, I'm fine with the current configuration. And it may be...awkward if someone only posts their skins in the "no comments" zone and critiques others constantly.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

Elitism is just sooooooo beneath us.

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[the_ultimate_evil]

This subforum already exists: Clicky!  Plus, at no additional charge, you'll enjoy the benefits of the occasional script-kiddie mayhem event...

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

sadly this is what i meant you know i love MM, but sadly most wont take the time to post on both fourms

Well...I tell ya...I like and don't like this idea at the same time. The reason I don't like it is because it feels like we can't be honest and constructive in the "reg" forum....that it's just for niceties and patting each other on the back. However the thing that I like about this idea is that it be a good way for creative folks around here to gather and give good and constructive feedback to help us all grow as artists without anyone "taking" something the wrong way or misconstrueing someone's comments...you know what you're getting into when you sign up. Count me in the "unsure but thinking seriously about it" box. ;) ^_^

that wasn't the intent, the main forum would have critique if the artists want but with this forum you'd be guaranteed actual feedback on your work. without as you say someone taking it as an insult

All I want to know is if it will be limited to people who put their own stuff up for critique. Essentially, if I, as someone who has done some very poor skinning a long time in the past, wanted to go in and critique things, would I have to start skinning again? I only say this because I remember some members who have given fantastic advice without ever having skinned/meshed/etc. anything (Lightshear, anyone? He was giving superb advice long before his first, and I think only, skin) and feel that, although there's the potential problem that if you give critiques on the work of others and do not allow your own work to be seriously critiqued that some people might put others down for the hell of it. I don't think the latter will be a serious problem as this community is probably the most mature I've ever been a part of and some of the people here have been skinning since the really old days of FreedomForceCenter and I've not seen much criticism that was not constructive and useful. I doubt that people will just start slating each other's work left right and centre. I say "yes", assuming that a lapsed skinner like myself can come and marvel at the shinies and the helpful advice.

of course anyone could use the forum not just people posting work, maybe having it permission needed would be a bad idea, but of course if a person feels they have an opinion on the work and it can put forward in a polite and constructive manor then they would be welcome

All for it but I can see it causing problems like noobs thinking we are being elitists...

again that may not come across if the forum was "locked"

We're not elitists. We're just better than them.

Honestly, I'm fine with the current configuration. And it may be...awkward if someone only posts their skins in the "no comments" zone and critiques others constantly.

sadly with the events like what happened recently becoming more frequent  the current configuration doesn't seem to work as well as it used it

as to your other point if they think they don't need to constantly learn and grow as artists then thatis up to them

[Previsionary]

Why wouldn't people be up to posting on a new forum? I know in the past a select few said they don't post on spin-offs because this is the home base, but if you post on a forum at all...more than likely you post on more than one even if they cover the same material. Me thinks that the skinners/feedback wanters are going to have to make the move and make the other forum worth visiting either for tips, feedback, or exclusive sneak peeks like NPI used to have. NPI was never widely popular no matter what our memories tells us and it often went postless a few times a week, but the skinners (+ some meshers like Val) were mostly on board over there and there was always a helpful tip to be had. Not to mention that NPI was advertised by HQ and all proponents of it like ubah crazy...MM never got that luxury as it started out as a secret to begin with. Though, really, MM fulfills the tips, sneak peaks, and feedback demand already when it's in use.

A subforum that is "locked off" from everyone (as in those without a "key") just seems off as it makes it seem like a club or something that you have to work into. Not only are you somewhat limiting participation to a select few, but you're also creating a clutter and more areas the moderators will have to moderate...and let's keep in mind that not many mods are floating around these days. :S

Besides...a "locked" forum won't prevent the problems and the negativity. It may dwindle certain issues...but there's always a chance a new, worse problem will emerge because of it. And I don't think the "critique causing issues" thing is having an uprise right now. There were one or two problems that may have been fueled by something else entirely inside of 10+ good spots...but it seems like you're saying it happens frequently enough to warrant a whole new division. That's just my $.02...what do I win? A new avatar? A cake? Anything? No? Well...*poof*

[House Quake]

Hmmm... a skinning forum in which people can receive brutally honest and constructive critique.

Never heard of a place like that.  ^_^

As a sub forum here... I think it may be a good idea if handled properly.  But take it from experience... avoiding the 'elitist' tag would be difficult and this community has never been too keen on supporting multiple message boards with similar features.  As Prev pointed out... the NPI forums (and UFB) became known community assets because I pushed the things that were different. But it still lacked over all support except from the type of skinners who desired critical comments.  If a skinner came there for show and tell... they didn't hang around to long.  But if they came for show and tell me how to do it better... they had a second home.  The former out numbered the latter 3-1 though.  There were a few non skinners who were regulars and enjoyed the 18+ level of communication ( it was not a family friendly forum)... but they were the exceptions.

Still I think a sub forum may be a good idea and if people post... they accept that the critique may be elevated  beyond the standard "love it" replies. 

[laughing paradox]

I'm not certain what the purpose of this new forum would be, since this forum could, and has, served that purpose already.

Certainly people receive the "that's really good work" posts, but they also receive critical feedback as well. It's like saying, "Yeah, I don't post in your threads now, but if you post in this NEW forum, THAT'S where we'll pay attention."

I'm not sure who this forum would be helping..the newer skinners? The more experienced skinners probably wouldn't warrant much feedback, since they're... y'know... experienced. Many of the experienced skinners here also know each other, so I'm certain they receive feedback on a personal basis, whether through IM or email. I know plenty of newer skinners, including myself, have already asked for critical feedback in their own threads and while some are lucky and have received them, others have been ignored. I don't think a new forum will change that. It would make me think, "What's the point of even posting in the original forum?"

Maybe if the people who want to be more involved and help others made more of an effort in posting in other people's threads and giving that feedback, it would solve that dilemma. I think another problem is that people don't feel qualified in giving other people critiques because they are so new to things themselves. I'll offer assistance anywhere I can, but who am I to help someone like AA or C6? That's an attitude many people share.

I'm not aware of where people have misconstrued strong feedback for a personal attack.. I'm sure it's occurred, but I've not seen it.. but I doubt it's a major issue plaguing the board. The bigger problem, I think, is the lack of feedback. People are quick to resolve conflicts here, which is a nice approach on this forum. I am under the impression that the majority of people who post here aren't juvenile and are actually mature, so I think things would be fine and mended promptly on that front.

Anyway, those are my two cents.

- LP

[Deaths Jester]

Everyone I think knows I am all for critiques where ever they may appear...here, in Meshmatters or elsewhere.

[Outcast]

If ever, what kind of "no punches pulled/brutally honest but family friendly and polite" constructive critiques/feedback would one expect there?

[Sioux City Dynamo]

Hi,

I think if it would help to improve my skills I would like to participate.

"That which does not kill us makes us stronger!"

Respectfully,

[the_ultimate_evil]

hmm guess this idea is a no go then

[Podmark]

I think a subforum could certainly be useful, is it necessary? Well I think past experience here and conversations I've had show that this forum has never been ideal for no punches pulled critique. And I think thats right. Here you can post a skin and unless you really ask for it people don't know what you're after. Are you just showing your work, are you looking for some minor help, or are you looking for a serious critique? I know sometimes I've posted work where I'm just showing what I've done and don't really want too extensive help, but other times I have.

A subforum could be that kind of place, a place you only go to for full proper critique. It should be like a wip area before we're ready to show it to the masses. Does it need to locked, I'm not sure about that but it shouldn't be a place where anyone just posts "looks good" etc. It should be a place where you get proper feedback.

I've always preferred just going to one place, it's familiar, I like it here. I'm personally unlikely to make regular trips to a separate site unless I have a specific reason. But that's just me.