Alpha Channels

[Revenant]

I'm working on a few meshes that have alpha enabled parts, which are turned "on" and "off" depending on what skin is applied.  However sometimes a part that is "off" still has an effect on the mesh, like it cancels out other Alpha'ed pieces. 

It's hard to explain and I will post pics of what I mean later... For example, I have a Captain America mesh with two shields, the badge shaped and the round one, but when the round shield is alpha'd "on" and the badge is alphad "off", you can still see an outline of the badge shield.  Its shape makes the round shield invisible where they intersect, from certain angles.

Is there need for a second aplha channel?  Or would upping the threshhold solve this?  Right now I am using a value of 125.

[UnfluffyBunny]

it's a fairly common problem with the game engine, overlaying alphas is tricky stuff, in FF it'll show the whole outline of any other alpha it passes over, if you play GW you'll see if you overlay an alpha over another it makes the enderneath alpha completely dissapear, as far as I know there's no fix for this

[Revenant]

Arrgh that was what I feared... oh well, seperate meshes for different shields I guess. :o

[detourne_me]

hmm, i dunno tohugh,  i was just gonna preview some alpha stuff i have done tonight.
maybe my video card is pretty good though... but i have multiple pieces with nor translucent outlines...  hmmn.

just waiting for approval from youtube, then i'll  post a proof-of concept video.  i've skoped together cyclops and wolverine meshes to take advantage of the alpha channels.

[Revenant]

Awesome!  I've been working on a Cap hex,  Maybe if I put the shields on different arms...

Isaiah Bradley ever throw his shield?

[UnfluffyBunny]

*mindslip* I forgot nifskope alphas work differently to max applied alphas, i'm not sure of the extent, but from doing quasars hair I can say they're more stable, tho i'll leave the exploration to det :P

[detourne_me]

hmmn.  one thing i've noticed for alphas in nifskope (and i've been using the values that you supplied UFB in the nifskope ideas thread in Requests) is that you really need to delete the images in the normal layer, as well as black out the spots in the alpha channel.  I have been duplicating the background, deleting the background,  and then deleting the pieces of the skin on one single layer. then you get the invisible checkerboard pattern underneath.  I've noticed that you need to delete outside the lines...so erase a bit further out than the regular mapping.  that could be what causes a faint outline.

as for the cap mesh,  ive successfully taken the cap_america V2 mesh, and hexed in GA cap's shield, as well as the Ultimate_Cap accessories too, and with alpha layers i can switch between cap with pouches, GA Cap, USAgent without pouches, and Ultimate Cap with accessories.  There is a trouble though. the gloves are built into the basic mesh, although they can be hidden.  i've tried to redirect the texture for them (since ult cap doesnt have flappy gloves) but no good.  so i'm going to add the GA cap's gloves in place, since I need to use different texture files for his shield anyway, and his gloves are mapped to the texture file with his shield.

I will probably try to add Guardian, Battlestar, and Protocide as well to the mix. I'm going to stay away from Patriot and Isiah Bradley for my own purposes.  their meshes are too beautiful to mess with.

EDIT:
and my video was approved:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMAVR-Xwl6o

[stumpy]

EDIT:
and my video was approved:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMAVR-Xwl6o

But it isn't playing (at least not at this moment).

[crimsonquill]

and my video was approved:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMAVR-Xwl6o

It's working now...    EDIT: Ok...well, it worked once when I clicked it the first time.

WOW! I'm impressed... Keep this up and I'd finally be able to save some space on my harddrive from multiple meshes. I especially want to see your Captain America now.

Oh yeah, you going to add the cowboy hat and cigar to your Wolverine too before release?

- CrimsonQuill

[Revenant]

I'm going to stay away from Patriot and Isiah Bradley for my own purposes.  their meshes are too beautiful to mess with.

EDIT:
and my video was approved:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMAVR-Xwl6o

I agree, they are awesome meshes.    Can't see the video yet... it says I gotta wait a minute!

[Revenant]

Okay it worked... and DAAYYYum i like it!  From working on Hawkeye, I know it's a lot of work putting those alpha'd bits together... setting up the NiAlphas, placing the bits, making sure the skin files are in proper order.... you did a really nice job on these! !

Now I'll have to get to work on a Cyclops skin.  Would you mind terribly if I asked you to send me the nif file?  Pleease??  :P

[Sioux City Dynamo]

Hi Guys,

This looks great!  Really nice way to add variety to the game.  I am currious would it work to have the character file have a random skin so that you could have various looks of the character?  If so, how would one set this up?

Also, Revenant, have you checked out the vxCyclops?

Respectfully,

[detourne_me]

its really easy to set up characters as having random skins in-game.  use a hero file editor program, like Mr. Brdo's hero tool, or Alex's Hero Tool  and just set the skin to random.
trouble is, if youre hero file has FFVTTR-only powers,  such as speed increase or a cone attack...those kind of get defaulted to a crushing beam.  and if you open up the hero file in-game,   it re-writes the random-skinning aspect.   i haven't figured out how to successfully hex the hero file by myself yet (so i could preserve the FFVTTR only aspects.   but i might try to figure it out..... maybe it could be as simple as making an extra skin folder and calling it "random"


i'm going to put the character.nifs for cyke and wolverine,  maybe even captain america up on my yahoo groups.  but no skins or keyframes to go with'em

EDIT:
well,  its sure is easy to get random skins in FFVTTR, just make a copy of a skin, and call it random.   these work great in-game,  i ran three different rumble rooms with cap, cyke, and logan and got different skins each time.  the only issue is that the FX for the shield throw has to stay the same,  so even if it's golden age cap, he'll be throwing a modern shield.
i'm just going to update the nifs (fix some lighting and stuff) then i'll upload those versions to my yahoo

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Nice way of cheating around that limitation!  You'll want to delete that folder afterwards, unless you want that skin to appear twice as often as any others.  It won't matter if it's missing, so long as you set it in the hero editor first.  You're basically just forcing the hero editor to except "random" as the skin, and once the engine sees that, it doesn't even look for a skin by that name.

[Talavar]

You can also use a hex-editor to change the skin to random, the advantage being that it doesn't reset cones, etc.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Um, Talavar, didn't you just read about the workaround that he described?  It requires no using any editor at all and certainly reset's nothing.  It's genious, too.

[FLASH_22798]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMAVR-Xwl6o

This kicks @$$ !!!

Alphas have always been above my skill level, so seeing this is just awesome.   Killier stuff.

[Volsung]

I've got some disquiet about that system. :huh:
Some fxs may reveal the whole mesh (betraying the alpha channels)
(It already happened on alpha capes)

[detourne_me]

i hear ya Volsung.
this fix probably isn't for everyone, but it's a way to make the game a bit more interesting if your pc can handle the alphas.
and Cat,   i totally considered the odds of the random skin appearing more often... thats why i copied my favourite skins from the bunch into the random folder ;)

heres a short Cap video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahY4XaGtiu4

i've been trying to make a jean grey amalgamation, but was getting a little frustrated (since phoenix classic, jean Grey_2, newx_jean, and classic Jean grey are all seperate base meshes)
so i think i'll make a storm, or shadowcat amalgamation first.  i also plan to make a beast, rogue, and maybe nightcrawler one too.   actually, i might try to add professor x to the mix, i could never decide if i like hoverchair or wheelchair better :)

[crimsonquill]

so i think i'll make a storm, or shadowcat amalgamation first.  i also plan to make a beast, rogue, and maybe nightcrawler one too.   actually, i might try to add professor x to the mix, i could never decide if i like hoverchair or wheelchair better :)

The Cap clip looks great and I'll finally have a non-TM based Cap with the Ultimate bits on it. Plus I assume this mesh uses the keyframes with the salute, right?

Sounds like you have lots of work ahead of you.. and I'll be looking forward to seeing them one by one.

And PLEASE tell me that you might hex on swords to the Nightcrawler mesh... *begs on bent knees*

- CrimsonQuill

[Revenant]

That Cap video is so freakin cool!  And great idea, regarding the "random" folder. 

I was about to start enabling alphas on Ink's Storm_X mesh since it has so many bits... But if you are doing X-Men, maybe I'll concentrate my efforts on some JLA hexes instead.  I have already started one with Wonder Woman using Vertex's mesh, with Golden Age and Secret Agent Diana Prince versions.  It'll eventually have the toga and biker costumes that were featured in JL Heroes the video game.  And maybe even the George Perez Greek armor wondie  :)

[detourne_me]

sweet... i was a bit hesitant about tackling DC just yet.
I've gone through quite a few marvel characters alredy, and put some nif's up in my 2nd yahoo group.
i'm still kind of wary about releasing these,  but some of them look and work great.  for example i spent a few hour on luke cage last night for all 5 of his variants made by Renegade and Courtnall6, but i don't want to step on anyones toes here ... *tugs collar uneasily*

[Revenant]

On a side note... I didn't know my Ultimate Cap skin was so dark!
:unsure:

[Revenant]

How do you like this idea:

One person does a hex and / or skin, adding bits and alpha-enabling them to create a nice, neat package.  Then, they send the nif and skin over to person #2, who does their own hex and skin.  And then they send it on to person #3, and so on, until a character is built up with various appearances.

The downside is, alpha layers can't really overlap...

[style]

On a side note... I didn't know my Ultimate Cap skin was so dark!
:unsure:

I thought you did that on purpose. I do wish sometimes your color work were more bright.