Liberty Bay, Feedback and Testing

[Alphanaut]

I was the one entrusted with the task of working on the Odysseus skin.

[Gremlin]

Did anybody save the information in the original thread?  I remember the board got shut down after the first one was started, and I was interested in what the whole mod was going to be.  I remember there were some greek gods, and an entity called Cosmos or something that wanted to eat the universe or something.  And Energy Man and Nemesis were big players...but I can't recall much else.  I really need to know the characters especially, since I have to pester my actor friends about it (and everyone I talked to said they'd love to help! :thumbup:).

Also, what was Microcosm's origin?  I wrote something about him being from another dimension that accidentally "fell" into ours, but Unkoman's skin cast him in an almost Superman-like light, as the last survivor of a tiny subdimension.  He's not on the website yet, so I'm a tad confuzzled.

I was thinking about EM and N the other day, and was wondering just how big their role was.  I kind of had this idea: on a cosmic scale, everything balances out somehow, while at the level of regular people, fate and destiny are relative.  Think of Time Master.  He was a regular guy, then became a cosmic level player, and suddenly he needs a counter-balance, which in the long run comes from Entropy.  Without Entropy, Freedom Force would only have been able to hold him off for so long until he won.  Thematically they're polar, too: TM wants to stop the universe in its tracks, Entropy wants to run it into the ground.  What if that was the same for EM and N as well?  They're two sides of the same coin, and no matter what happens they're always going to cancel each other out in the long run.  Since they're both the same guy (if I recall correctly), they have two options: combine into a single neutral ultra-powerful entity, or both die.  The balance must be maintained now that they're in the "big leagues."  Think of it like relativity versus quantum mechanics: on the huge scale, objects cannot choose their motions or behaviors, the follow rigid laws; on the small scale, everything is chance and probability and, depending on how philosophical you want to get, choice.  That's how people and cosmic players work.

Other questions that came to mind:
-Why did Odysseus travel foward in time?  Who or what moved him here?
-What powers does he get?
-Could Goo drop the Loner attribute?  I think it would be better to handle his antisocial tendencies through writing and free up his attribute slots for other superpowers.  If he was a showstalking nighttime vigilante then I wouldn't have a problem, but his powerset doesn't seem conductive to it.  Not to mention it's strange to have such a central character in a team game suffer when he works with other characters.  Unless we had a bunch of Goo solo missions or somesuch.
-When's the first time we fight Grendel himself, and what powers does he have?

[BentonGrey]

I'm fairly sure that I was the one who suggested Ulysses, so I'll be happy to fill in the blanks.  I had some plans for the Greek gods, and an explaniation for why they were going by their Roman names, but that's all a little fuzzy.  I do remember Microcosom's origin can be found on Unko's site.

I'll give my thoughts on Ulysses tomorrow, it's late and I'm a bit too tired to remember the details at the moment.

[UnkoMan]

Yes, the origin of MicroCosm on my site is copied directly from that old thread. The same for all Liberty Bay heroes I've done, except Mighty Mercury, Hawk, and CopperTop.

Grendel, I believe, has powers similar to Mentor's, but more violent. I think we were even going with the theory that the jewels on their head were a focus for their mental abilities? Or was that just something I made up?

As for Goo... I think it would be great if you could purchase some kind of cancellation of his loner attribute. That way he's got a very useful upgrade.

Energy Man and Nemesis do combine and turn into Cosmos. I am pretty sure that is the deal, by the end. And they fight the Greek Gods? Or did the team fight both villains? Lots of fighting, I dunno.

[Epimethee]

As for Goo... I think it would be great if you could purchase some kind of cancellation of his loner attribute. That way he's got a very useful upgrade.

It would need a bit of coding (for example, Loner isn't currently a removable attribute), but it should be trivial; just ask if you want me to do it. However, instead of simply removing the attribute and losing the Loner bonus, I suggest removing only the penalty – this way, the character better keeps his personality and the player who buys the attribute is rewarded without being punished too.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

-Why did Odysseus travel foward in time?  Who or what moved him here?

The Greek deities did.  Everything that happens in the mod until the end is a manipulation by them to bring Energy Man And Negativity (I'm renaming Nemesis.  Never did like that name) out into the forefront and test their abilities.

-What powers does he get?

Greek heroes basically had exagerated abilties.  Ulysses was mentioned as being unusually strong and he'll be fairly tough.  He's also a tactician and a leader and that will be reflected in his attributes and powers.

-Could Goo drop the Loner attribute?  I think it would be better to handle his antisocial tendencies through writing and free up his attribute slots for other superpowers.  If he was a showstalking nighttime vigilante then I wouldn't have a problem, but his powerset doesn't seem conductive to it.  Not to mention it's strange to have such a central character in a team game suffer when he works with other characters.  Unless we had a bunch of Goo solo missions or somesuch.

It's really too late and go changing him now.  IF that suggestion had been made earlier, I might take it, but to force everyone to restart and replay the whole thing AGAIN just because I went and messed with the characters.  Well, I wouldn't want to do so.

-When's the first time we fight Grendel himself, and what powers does he have?

Not until near the end.  As was said, an evil Mentor.  At least that's what I'm planning for now.

As for Microcosm, his origin has been changed.  He is now a resident of an alternate dimension, a scientist testing a shrinking suit intended to allow for teleportation by slipping through the cracks in time and space.  His calculations are off and he slips into a hole leading to the LB dimension instead.  Doc helps him correct his calculations, allowing him to teleport safely, but he is not sure how to get back to his home dimension.

I have an idea for a short mod that has him and doc sliding through several different dimensions looking for Microcosm's home and teaming up with many alternate version of familiar characters in the process.  As a result, he would no longer be there for LB2, although I doubt that mod will ever get made.

[BentonGrey]

Okay, here's what I've got for Ulysses.  I'm afraid I didn't make notes, and the loss of the original thread is quite a loss indeed.  My memory is abysmal at best. :P

Ulysses steps into the LB universe out of the mists of time.  His last memories are of his final voyage.  Growing bored of his beloved Ithaca and missing the life of adventure, he convinced his aging crew to sail to the ends of the earth.  The last man alive on the ship, after sailing beyond the Pillars of Hercules, the man once known as Odysseus sailed into Hades itself, down the River Styx.  Forces beyond his ken have brought him to this day and time, and returned him to his prime.  Now he seeks to join his faithful wife Penelope in the paradise of Elysium.

He possesses his fabled bow, his strong sword, maybe a shield, and his devious mind.  It was Odysseus who came up with the gambit of the Trojan horse, outsmarted the Cyclops, and succeeded through guile and wits where his contemporaries succeeded through strength and skill.

If I remember correctly, we had discussed a split in the other dimensional world of Olympus (heralded by Pan's incursion in FF1), and represented by unknown forces bringing Odysseus to combat the coming storm.  He's eventually joined by Mercury, also using his Roman name to differentiate himself from the newly antagonistic rule of Zeus.  At least, that's how I remember it.  Cat, I imagine your memory is sharper than mine, having dealt with this all more recently, and plus I'm sure you have your own ideas of how all this ties together.  I'd love to discuss it with you, though.

[Gremlin]

Okies, this is pretty helpful, thanks.

As I recall it, there were missions of ascending scale until we bumped into the gods who were trying to stop Cosmos...EM and Nemesis merged into one being and fought him off?  I think?  Or is Unko right and they BECAME Cosmos?  I'm pretty sure Cosmos was an external threat.  What did he want to do?  Eat the universe?

I had an idea, since that's still far off from being written, that Cosmos could want to jump-start the universe into going Big Bang again, then absorbing all the energy into himself, or maybe transferring his consciousness into the universe as it restarted and becoming a being of near-infinite power composed of the energy of an entire universe.  Or something like that.  Maybe he's not evil, per se, he just doesn't comprehend this whole "universe has life in it" thing.  EM and N, with their whole neutrality and balance schtick, could combine into a new being and stop him because destroying the universe would definitely ruin its cosmic balance.

Cat, can I get a list of all the characters in the mod and a real brief description of each?  I can hardly recall any of the other ones (Energy Man, Nemesis, Floro and Pyre just from Unko's site, Mercury, the vampire guy, the cop guy...bleh.  BLEH).  And who do we have voices for?  Just the ones already recorded?

I was going through the characters I could remember and wrote a short character development thing for each; let me know what you think.  Some new bits I threw in for fleshing out depth in the future.  This has everyone from the website and Unko's skins page (which really needs to be added to the main site soon).  If any of this is contradictory to anything else, then the other stuff takes precidence; I just wanted to get all the characters on the same page and through in some depth, underlying motivations, and the like.  I really should've done this earlier, I think it'll make my writing much better.  Any extra ideas to add on, please feel free to do so; a lot of these characters need even more depth and history and humanity.

Goo: Funny, sarcastic, annoying at times.  Starts off hesitant to be in the group, later gets mroe into it when he realizes he'd be lost without them.  Uses humor to make light of the crazy world he's in because if he'd never be able to come to terms with the weirdness of it all.  Kind of scared underneath everything (also part of the reason he's a loner at first); grows out of it and comes to terms with it.  Fights crime at first because it seems like the natural thing to do, but starts to question it once he realizes just how scared of everything he is (I'd love to write some dialogue between him and Grendel where Grendel's being all psychoanalytical with Goo and he's so spot-on and it's just breaking the poor guy...it would be horrifying and dramatic and rock so hardcore), and he realizes he's actually a good guy.

Doc Astounding: Hyper-focused on the details, but sometimes loses sight of the big picture.  Or focuses on the big picture and overlooks details.  A tad absent-minded, but ceaselessly honest.  He'd die for his allies, or anyone, really.  Lives his life in service of others with very little thought for himself.  Rather detached from everything and everyone due to his logical outlook; very awkward around people.  Never really had the time for a girlfriend; might even be gay and not realize it, although that wouldn't ever be mentioned or brought up, just something to keep in mind while writing him, like Albus Dumbledore.

White Lightning: Calm and collected on the surface, a raging sea of emotional chaos underneath.  Anything that comes through is filtered by her tremendous self-control, so the most she'll normally show is a small smile.  Only thing she'll ever fully reveal is fury--and when she gets mad, she gets MAD.  Hates when she isn't in control of situation, especially when someone is forcefully wrenching control away from her.  Despises tyranny in all its forms for that reason.  Very accepting of others, except when they want to get in her way.  Takes tremendous joy in other peoples' happiness.

Microcosm: Bewildered to the extreme.  Endlessly fascinated by everything.  It's all new to him: the culture, the landscape, the people.  He loves to learn, which is a wonderful blend with DA's desire to teach.  Very passionate and excited about everything that he does; sees his science almost as an art (great foil to DA's dispassionate, straight-faced approach to science and life).  Easily excited.

Floro: Quiet, reserved.  A passionate environmentalist (obviously).  Once he opens up to you, you find a caring, tender soul who would do anything for the people he cares about.  Very optimistic about the human spirit and condition, and strives to do as much good as he possibly can.  Thinks that nobody is completely evil, and everyone deserves a second chance.

Iron Hide: Strong silent type.  Kind of cynical, but in that kind of hopeful existentialist sort of way.  Treats everyone with a kind of dispassionate affection.  You'd think he didn't like you at first, but then you realize that's just how he is.  Honest, but avoids conflict with people he cares about.  Goes ballistic when his friends are hurt, but only when they're really hurt; he knows most of his super-buddies can hold their own.

Jester: Joking, carefree; like Goo, uses it to hide how terrified she is because of the world around her.  Hopefully they can bond over this and become relatively close friends.  Of course, she's crazy about the Rogue, so nothing romantic would happen between them; Goo realizes this as he matures over time and stops being such a chauvinist pig towards her.  Part of what scares her about adventuring is just how much she loves it; she never longed for action before, and now it seems she can't get enough of it.  She's always itching to throw on her tights (*rimshot*) and beat some baddies down.  She's been told for her whole life that she has to be cautious and dependable and boring, and she loves how much she breaks the status quo.  Rogue is probably a little worried by how much she changes when she goes superheroing.

Rogue: Always trying to prove himself.  He compares himself to his favorite literary legends, especially Robin Hood, and he always finds himself coming up short.  Sets a high bar that he never reaches because he can't.  Very self-critical.  Focuses WAY too much on the little things and constantly finds himself missing the big picture (which he gets mad at himself for afterwards).  Enjoys being a hero, and loses himself in the action, though; it's the only time he isn't critiqueing himself.  Cares for Jester a great deal, but as he's too focused on his own perfection, misses out on the fact that she's in love with him.  Also kind of socially awkward, like the Doc, but not as bad.

Pyre: A young girl still trying to figure out where she is in the world.  Kind of whiny, but underneath is as limp as a wet noodle; easily persuaded to take any particular course of action.  Not stupid, just not very independent.  Will gradually grow into a strong-willed, passionate and caring young woman who lives for righteousness, hates evil, and appreciates the good that happens around her by regular people every day.

Odysseus: This is after The Odyssey, when his hubris has died down a bit.  But only a little.  He thrives on conflict, loves to win, and enjoys a good fight.  Relatively arrogant still, but has this nasty habit of boasting about how great he is and then actually being as awesome as he claims.  Always wants to push himself harder and farther, always almost-but-not-quite pushing himself past his limits.  Can be selfish at times.  Will sometimes butt heads with the controlling leadership of Doc, but works his way up be on equal leadership status with him.  Knows his teammates' very well so he can keep track of their strengths and weaknesses when he needs to use them.

Mighty Mercury: If you thought Odysseus was arrogant, you haven't met Mercury.  He feels very entitled to everything.  If he wants something, he'll take it, although only through deception; a god of trade, he despises theft.  Only the nudging of Reynolds' on his subconscious prevents him from turning into a lavish hedonist...along with the hidden message of the gods.  Loves adventure and fun.  Cares little for other people, unless he personally likes them.  Something of a womanizer.

Coppertop: Loves finally being at the top of the pile.  Dumb as a brick, naturally, and a huge bully, thus a huge coward.  After living for so long at the feet of everyone around him, he finally has the ability to put them into their place, so he does it whenever he can.  Terribly lazy, although hyperactive; he has a lot of energy, but he hates expending too much of it.  Highly sadistic to normal people, but greatly admires Hawk; fiercely loyal to him, he'll kill anybody who badmouths the only friend he's ever had.  Very talkative.

Hawk: Like Coppertop, loves finally being on top.  Feels a sense of entitlement due to his smug superiority.  Nothing gives him more satisfaction than smashing somebody's hope of success at the last second.  He wants to be important, he wants people to acknowledge his self-evident superiority.  Very manipulative and shrewd, and he never lets his guard down; he's learned by now that the only way to the top is through hard work, and he isn't going to slack off and lose everything he's gained so far when he's still such a long way from his goal.  Hates Coppertop because he sees him as the idiotic weakling everyone used to think he was, but manages to convince the crook they're equal partners.  Hates that Coppertop admires him so much, but understands his neccessity.  Longs for the day he has a self-powering suit and can just kill the guy in his sleep.

Dinosaur: Ambitious and crafty.  He has a lot of power and doesn't mind tossing it around.  Cruel to the extreme.  Sees himself as someone above his feeble humanity, better than the peons underneath him.  Enjoys finally having the power to back up his arrogance, and as a result, his arrogance has increased dramatically.  Loses track of things easily; it's easy for things to get out of control.  He loses his cool more and more as a result of his loss of control until it's completely shot to all heck.

Rat King: An angry, bitter monster-man who hates the surface world for what it's done to him and his family.  Will never rest until his father's murder is avenged, and sees the entire human race as the murderers.  Violently xenophobic.  He doesn't even like touching human-made objects and treats them as if they were coated in acid.  Coldly cruel and efficient; he'd rather kill a hundred men instantly than torture a dozen slowly, and his desire to cause as much damage as possible is one of the reasons he's such a threat; the other reason is that he's so damn good at it.

Comissioner Goodman: Uptight, bossy, controlling, but not just to be in control.  Firmly believes that vigilanteism is the last step towards anarchy, and doesn't want the citizens to take the law into their own hands.  Cares a great deal about Liberty Bay and its people, and doesn't want the superheroes taking any authority away from the police, where he sees it belongs.  Is especially worried about supervillains, since whenever the good guys show up on the scene, the bad guys are sure to follow.

Chief Brenner: A cop who broke long ago and sees in Liberty, Inc. a newfound source of hope.  Where Goodman sees anarchy, Brenner sees citizens who are finally taking a stand against corruption and evil.  While he would prefer it if they were a part of the police force, as long as somebody is willing to fight the good fight, he'll help.  He's starting to grow a spine again, with Liberty Inc to bolster his courage, and he's slowly turning into the bright-eyed young beat cop he used to be, convinced that one man can make all the difference in the world.

Big Ben: Very patient and cautious due to his longer lifespan.  Tries to be the voice of reason.  Dislikes barging into conflicts unprepared; sees them as little better than suicide.  Sometimes this can be a problem; he tends not to have much of a sense of urgency.  Doesn't like getting close to people, since he's seen too many of his good friends die.  Loves to explore new things, because things stay where they are.  You can age a day every century and the Himalayas will never lose their majesty.  Very big-picture, very optimistic; he's seen a lot of good done in his lifetime, and has seen a lot of change that has outlasted the people that brought it about.

Black Hole: The Black Hole is a criminal because of the mysterious influence of his Singularity Rod, which is gradually transforming him from a curious scientist into a cold, calculated criminal.  He is hardly aware of his transformation, but others have seen him change from a jovial man into a dispassionate, callous monster.  Eventually, once the Rod has completely engulfed him, he will have transformed into a living singularity with complete control over his mass, angular momentum, and electric charge (3 independent internal properties of a black hole).  The entity living in the Rod wants this to occur, because as Cheung draws power from the device he's also pulling on the cosmic entity within it, becoming its willling host.  Once the transformation is complete, Cheung will be gone, and only the Black Hole will remain, now on a cosmic entity level of power.  If the Rod were removed from Cheung long enough, he would feel horrified at his transformation, but would long to have the Rod back, now that he's grown so addicted to its power.  Which choice he makes depends on how the mod goes...

Cobra King: He's lived his entire life in devotion to his craft, and he's an expert at what he does.  He is entirely defined by his position as the head assassin of the Society of Serpents, and there is nothing else to him; if expelled from the Society, he would have no purpose, no meaning, no value in his own eyes.  He lives for the Society, and puts it above all else, although his underlings are meaningless to him.  The High Council is effectively god to him, and he strives his hardest to please them as best he can.

Energy Man: Johnny Volts is scared and confused, but he knows he has but one purpose: do good.  Altruistic to a fault, completely selfless and caring.  He's fun to be around most of the time, except when he's being such a boy scout.  There's a part of him that feels empty, though, and he's never known what it is, but he senses it's something dark and sinister.  And what really scares him is how much he wants to reach out and grab it, find out what it is, just how far it wants to go, and revel in it.  He always keeps in mind his own potential (*rimshot*) for evil, and always pushes himself away from it.

Nemesis: Unlike Energy Man, Nemesis knows exactly what he is: the anti-Energy Man.  They will always oppose each other, always cancel each other out.  There can be no victory, only a delay in their inevitable death by each others' hand.  They have no fate, no destiny, they simply are.  Nemesis is everything Energy Man hates because he must be.  It is his only purpose.  And he hates that he'll never win.  He hates that he is doomed to negation each and every time, because he exists solely as an opposite.  It drives him mad with fury that the universe is so cruel as to deprive him even of the dark hope of his victory.  He does know that EM isn't aware of this universal balancing act, however, and dangles tantalizing hints as to their destiny whenever he can, longing for the day he can reveal everything and finally crush the do-gooder's irritatingly optimistic spirit.

Grendel: He longs for a return to the Domain.  In a society where rank is everything, this once-great leader is now less than nothing, a rankless peon on an abandoned planet left with the impossible task of dominating it single-handedly.  He will always push on, however.  He always strives as hard as he can, without a second's thought for mercy, because he wants so badly to be reaccepted by his beloved Lord Dominion, his Master, Lord, and near-god.  He venerates the Lord Dominion, which makes his exile that much harder.  He doesn't like taking life unneccessarily, after all, what good is a planet if everyone on it is dead?  But his definition of "unneccessarily" is very different from anyone else's.  If it will make the heroes run away, it is neccessary.  If it will distract the heroes, it is neccessary.  He will never send his troops into a suicide battle, however; he's far more intelligent than that.  He's very proud of his race and their accomplishments, and compared to other species he is proud, but among his own race he will be forever humbled by his chastisement at the hands of the Lord Dominion.

Lord Darkholme: His primary drive now is his hunger.  Before his revenge, before his hedonism, there is the hunger, a ceaseless, tireless yearning for the life force of human beings.  The only thing that truely sates his need is to kill with his ability, but even then, the feeling of peace is temporary, and he is driven again to feed.  He sees people as cattle, fit only for his consumption.  He's something of a connaisseur; he prefers superpowers for the strange new abilities they give him when he feeds.  Funnily enough, he's kind of always seen people like food, except before he wanted their money and now he wants their life, so his powers haven't really changed him, just made him worse.  Since he cares so little for people, he finds his purpose in material goods; wealth, lavish living, and the like.  A hedonist in every sense of the word.  He easily takes great offense at even the tinest slight, and has a strong sense of arrogant pride he labels "honor."

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

You've honestly put a lot more thought into these characters than I have, and I have no real objections.  I do have a few notes however.

Neither Black Hole or Cobra King are featured in this mod.  Black Hole will likely make a guest appearance as part of the huge supervillain team.  Both would be in LB2, and Black Hole would probably be one of the plyable characters in the villain mod.

I'm not using Lord Darkholme, as nice as that skin is, but am sticking to the original The Count, who is more of a refined, arrogant aristrocrat.  Count looks mostly human, just a tad pale, and in outdated clothes.  He's probably a bit like Rogue, who looks to the past rather than the present.  In fact, the sub-group Medieval (consisting of The Jester, The Rogue, The Bard, and the Shepherd--Mercury's host post-LB using just the power of the staff) lead by the Rogue fights him a lot.  They might appear in a 1 mission minimod.

I'll pm you more about the characters and story details later.  And don't worry, must is still changeable.

[Lunarman]

Wow, that was a great read. I'm really looking forward to playing more of LB, and it inspires me to do something with my own mod...

I'm available for mapping and any voices you might want. I'm young, english and male, but can do quite a few accents. Just pm me.
At a push I might be able to persuade my sister to do a small part. But one with more than a mission of lines would likely be a no-no from her.

Nice work!

[Gremlin]

Thanks, Cat and Lunarman.  I love character work.  I've really enjoyed working on these guys; it's been very illuminating.

Neither Black Hole or Cobra King are featured in this mod.  Black Hole will likely make a guest appearance as part of the huge supervillain team.  Both would be in LB2, and Black Hole would probably be one of the plyable characters in the villain mod.

Okay.  If BH does show up, now we have a blurb to put into his string.  I'd really like to get this made...if we get enough momentum going, I would love to try a second one.  But no worrying about it now!  A villain mod would also be cool, and so would that one you mentioned earlier about DA and Microcosm (or is it MicroCosm?) going on an adventure through dimensions.  I'd love to mess around with that, especially if we could toss in some evil versions of classic characters, since I love those guys to death.

I'm not using Lord Darkholme, as nice as that skin is, but am sticking to the original The Count, who is more of a refined, arrogant aristrocrat.  Count looks mostly human, just a tad pale, and in outdated clothes.  He's probably a bit like Rogue, who looks to the past rather than the present.  In fact, the sub-group Medieval (consisting of The Jester, The Rogue, The Bard, and the Shepherd--Mercury's host post-LB using just the power of the staff) lead by the Rogue fights him a lot.  They might appear in a 1 mission minimod.

Who is the Count, exactly?  Still vampiric?  If so, I can probably keep the mindset and backstory.  I've always figured the Thirst is the primary drive in anything a vampire does, and everything else is window dressing.

I'll pm you more about the characters and story details later.  And don't worry, must is still changeable.

Cool, can't wait!  I'm getting super excited about this all over again. I've been spending all my slacking off time writing up little character short stories.  It's helped a lot.

Which brings me to the next bit.  So, Grendel was exiled from the Domain for not being able to secure Earth.  I was pondering more his specific backstory, and I noticed some discrepencies: Freedom Force happens.  Grendel is scapegoated, causing his exile.  Then he kidnaps White Lightning, and then crashes on Earth.  How does that work?

How about this.  Grendel gets scapegoated for letting Earth fall to Freedom Force, which isn't a problem in and of itself, but now there are all these pesky rebellions popping up all over the place now that people are hearing about these guys who fought off the Domain.  Grendel, exiled, has a small squad of mercenary Domain in his control (who might make for interesting sub-bosses, like the Shi'ar Imperial Guard or somesuch).  He intercepted a signal from Zzzvvzsz  asking for a peace conference.  Grendel knew the Domain would ignore such a plea, but he saw a valuable opportunity.  He forged a reply, and sent his crew down as fake diplomats, but once the conference was under way he ambushed them and killed everyone--except Whhltgg, who he captured as his personal slave.  He figures he'll break her spirit and deliver her to his Lord Dominion, and take sadistic glee in the process, too.

Now, here's where things get fuzzy.  He comes to Earth for some reason, White Lightning overloads the ship in a massive surge of energy, bing bang boom, Earth, hominid form, etc.  Now, the question is WHY.  Why is he near Earth?  Is there a new opportunity there?  Maybe there's a rumor along the spacevine that some phenominally powerful energy signature (Energy Man/Nemesis, perhaps?) is there, and he's hired to scout?

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

The current origin for Grendel (Unko's stuff is the original version for those characters mostly, not the one I typically have adapted for the mod) is that, after ending the rebellion, he is sent to Earth to conquer it covertly, which he does by starting up his own gang with Dominion-style weaponry.  You may feel free to tweak this somewhat.

[Gremlin]

Okay...hmm.  I do kind of like the element of exile; it makes him more desperate.  What if he was being threatened with exile?  Or...OR.  He and Praetor (lets have some other fellows in the upper echelons, shall we?) are constantly at each other's throats, trying to prove themselves superior and gain the favor of their Lord Dominion (I use possessive pronouns in front of his name because it adds a feeling of veneration, and Lord Dominion would totally want to be revered).  He wants to succeed too usurp Praetor's position at the top of the pack, maybe?

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

That would fit.

[Gremlin]

Oooh, sweet.  Now I have an excuse to delve into the lovely world of DOMAIN POLITICS!

How much is there in FF canon concerning the Domain?  They weren't in FFvTTR...what about the comics?

What I'm imagining is something like Rome or Egypt, where the ruler is viewed as a god, and everyone vies for his favor.  Probably extremely xenophobic.  Praetor is one of the highest of LD's minions, one of his personal military advisors.  As such, he's shrewd, cunning, and excellent at making people underestimate him.  I see that as his major strength over Grendel, who's too proud to ever try to conceal himself.  Without the threat of exile, he wouldn't have that element of humility, but that definitely doesn't lead to hubris, since he's smart enough to never needlessly boast.  Maybe he volunteered for the job.  Yeah, Praetor got blamed for it all falling apart last time, and Grendel finally sees the opportunity to prove himself to his Lord Dominion and usurp Praetor's prestigious position!  (Aliteration not intended.)

[Epimethee]

Just my 2 cents:

Odysseus: This is after The Odyssey, when his hubris has died down a bit.  But only a little.  He thrives on conflict, loves to win, and enjoys a good fight.  Relatively arrogant still, but has this nasty habit of boasting about how great he is and then actually being as awesome as he claims.  Always wants to push himself harder and farther, always almost-but-not-quite pushing himself past his limits.  Can be selfish at times.  Will sometimes butt heads with the controlling leadership of Doc, but works his way up be on equal leadership status with him.  Knows his teammates' very well so he can keep track of their strengths and weaknesses when he needs to use them.

Mighty Mercury: If you thought Odysseus was arrogant, you haven't met Mercury.  He feels very entitled to everything.  If he wants something, he'll take it, although only through deception; a god of trade, he despises theft.  Only the nudging of Reynolds' on his subconscious prevents him from turning into a lavish hedonist...along with the hidden message of the gods.  Loves adventure and fun.  Cares little for other people, unless he personally likes them.  Something of a womanizer.

Odysseus is, from what I remember of the books, dead on. Kudos! Hermes too, except on one point, if you really want to follow the traditional mythology: His chief attributes, apart from being the messenger of the gods (with Iris), was the being god of trade and thieving. Which should tell us something about the opinion the Ancients had of merchants. ;)

[Gremlin]

Thanks! :thumbup:

Well, looking perusing Wikipedia, Mercury was a god of trade while Hermes was a god of theft.  There were slight differences when he was assimilated into the Roman religion.

It'd be interesting to touch on that, actually...hmm.  I can see him mentioning how he used to be a theif, until the Romans started praying to him instead of the Greeks...

[Epimethee]

Well, looking perusing Wikipedia, Mercury was a god of trade while Hermes was a god of theft.  There were slight differences when he was assimilated into the Roman religion.

While there are indeed differences between the two Pantheons' versions, of the couple of books I have at hand on the subject, one mentions that Hermes was among other things (I certainly forgot that he was the god of sheperds) the patron of both thieves and merchants, while the other signals that Mercury was the tutelar deity of thieves. The former does reference syncretism between the Greek model and an old Roman merchant god, though. Anyway, the list of attributes for any major divinity changed according to epoch and region (e.g. the Artemis of continental Greece – a virgin huntress– vs. the version adored in Ephesus – a polymastic fertility goddess), so you've got license to pick what suits you.

It'd be interesting to touch on that, actually...hmm.  I can see him mentioning how he used to be a theif, until the Romans started praying to him instead of the Greeks...

I like your thinking. :D

[Gremlin]

Well, looking perusing Wikipedia, Mercury was a god of trade while Hermes was a god of theft.  There were slight differences when he was assimilated into the Roman religion.

While there are indeed differences between the two Pantheons' versions, of the couple of books I have at hand on the subject, one mentions that Hermes was among other things (I certainly forgot that he was the god of sheperds) the patron of both thieves and merchants, while the other signals that Mercury was the tutelar deity of thieves. The former does reference syncretism between the Greek model and an old Roman merchant god, though. Anyway, the list of attributes for any major divinity changed according to epoch and region (e.g. the Artemis of continental Greece – a virgin huntress– vs. the version adored in Ephesus – a polymastic fertility goddess), so you've got license to pick what suits you.

Artemis?  Kill-you-when-you-catch-me-bathing Artemis?  HA!  That's amusing.

Plus there's this whole "writing like we're in the 60's" thing going for us.  Who needs accuracy?

It'd be interesting to touch on that, actually...hmm.  I can see him mentioning how he used to be a theif, until the Romans started praying to him instead of the Greeks...

I like your thinking. :D

  Thanks!  I've always loved making mythical gods a function of the people who believe in them.  Got a lot of mileage in my D&D campaign with that.  Hey, that could also explain why he's so weak now and needs a mortal host!  The mythic gods don't exist much any more; they're abstracts, stories and myths that don't have substance.  Mercury needs a host; who else would actually believe in his power?  Maybe that's the other gods' plan?  Push through the divide from fiction to reality?

Thought of something awesome.  Instead of Johnny, Energy Man/Nemesis's civilian name should be Jules [Something].  Since, you know, a joule is the SI unit of energy.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

As part of my attempt to work on the mod again, I've starting playing through Issue 2.  I've now added Jester as a main character, and not just a recruitable as before.

Anyway, I just underestimated myself.  I left the mayor alone for just a few minutes, even though I knew I had coded dino thugs to periodically spawn and go after him, and what do you know, the guy wandered right away from my team and what should have been simply if I had left a guy with him turned into a losing attempt to catch up.  And the mayor went down.  And the mission didn't fail.

If I had to beat myself, at least I caught a new bug while doing it!

I'll also be adding Floro as a recruitable soon.  I really should add Microcosm first, but he's going to be a little more work.  He has at least one, and probably two, new attributes that I have to code up.

[Gremlin]

Okies.  You want me to throw in a "let's meet Floro!" script dealie, or will he just be recruitable ala Iron Ox?

And what are Microcosm's powers in-game?

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Okies.  You want me to throw in a "let's meet Floro!" script dealie, or will he just be recruitable ala Iron Ox?

If you can do it within the current plan, sure go ahead, if you want to.

I've now got him in game and he ended up a bit different.  He is a combination Acid-based ranged fighter with various effects with all attacks and a healer.

Microcosm is a combination technology-based type with shrinking based skills.  He will gain two new attributes, Energy Containment, which lets him store Energy X cannisters for later use, and an as-yet-unamed one that will cause Energy X to effect him half as much as it does everyone else (being from a different universe and all)  He will also be able to summon giant amoebas.

I may change my mind on some of this.  I'm going to take a look at Unkoman's hero file and will likely incorporate ideas from it.  I'm planning on working on him next anyway.  I'm also going to go back to Unko's version, as far as the mesh goes, although the large size mesh hexed for me will be used for cutscenes where he appears full-sized.

[Gremlin]

Okies, I'll throw it in pre-Microcosm.

How about "Dimensional Visitor" or "Extradimensional Physiology?"

And that amoeba thing is awesome. :thumbup:

Hey, you know what would be cool?  If he's normally male_basic size, then when he shrinks down to male_tiny he stays on that little hoverpad; skope all the ranged forms into regular, I mean.  That way he could still zip around super fast and it would look cooler.

[BentonGrey]

Howdy guys!  I've been thinking about LB lately, and I was just wondering if anything was going on with it.  I can't wait to play with these characters some more, and I'd love to see Issue 2!

[kkhohoho]

Howdy guys!  I've been thinking about LB lately, and I was just wondering if anything was going on with it.  I can't wait to play with these characters some more, and I'd love to see Issue 2!

Me too. :cool:

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Haven't done anything with it in months.  Hit a couple of bugs, got lazy and distracted by other things, and never got back to it.

I'd be willing to hand it over to another programmer either partially or fully, or you can bug me back into it, I suppose.

I could also make the current version of issue 2 public if need be, but it's hardly in a fully playable state.

[BentonGrey]

Curses!  I wish I could script, because if so I'd be willing to take this on after releasing DCUG, before I moved on to the next set of campaigns.  I WOULD be willing to do anything else I can, including playtesting or whatever else, after January 10th.

[Gremlin]

I have the beginnings of the shooting script for the next section...I think level 6 and after? Like Cat, got lazy and distracted.

[kkhohoho]

I'd be willing to help. I don't know how, but the idea is great and I'd like to see it become a reality.

[Blkcasanova247]

I was wondering what had happened to this mod as well....you gotta keep goin' with it Cat! :thumbup: