The DCUG Back on Track!

[BentonGrey]

I'm sorry for the lack of responses the last few days, but I've just started a new job and my free time is more limited than I would like.  Still, I'm plugging away.  So, let me adress your points:

Just out of curiosity, what made you change your mind about physical resistance?

Captain Marvel: Yeah, I don't have much of a problem with implementing those changes.  You didn't like the passive defence of Courage?  I thought it was a rather novel idea (it wasn't mine!), I'll consider chaning it.

Although I'm not saying I won't do it, giving non-speedsters really high speeds (over 6 or 7) doesn't work for me, on a visual level.  If you want Supes to burn rubber, put him in the air, or maybe I'll give him a sprint option (like I did with CM).  You ALWAYS see Flash zooming around, but not usually Superman.  I mean, he's pretty quick in the air, does he need high speed too?  Same for CM.  I'll think about it, but I'd like to hear other opinions on this as well.

I've considered the acrobatic (amateur) for some of the fliers, and I'll keep thinking about it.  They have the CAPABILITY to do that every time, more or less, but you usually see them get knocked for a loop and go crashing through bulidings, not just land on their feet.  Which characters, in particular would you suggest it for, besides Supes?

I may give Supes both of those, but I'm hesitant to give him solar powered, because he's just as strong at night, which he wouldn't be if that attribute were in play.  It only really affects him after a full day or more without sun.

You have a point about the visual effect of freezing attacks...but I'm hesitant to limit it like that.

NOTE FOR ALL TESTERS:  Hey guys, please take a long, hard look at Green Arrow.  Are his attacks strong enough?  Do they use too much energy?  Are there any other changes I need to make to him?  I am a little conflicted about it.  The same goes for Speedy. 

Alright, I've been working on maps the last few days, and I've made some progress.  I've managed to successfully convert the Batcave and Underwater maps, although I am having some major trouble with 'Gotham.'  However, I need to get back to work on entering in characters and sampling for voicepacks, so I'm going to put out an open call for help with maps.  Here are some suggestions, in order of importance.  Anyone who would be willing to offer help, I would really appreciate it.

Gotham: even if someone can just convert the old one, that would be good.  I need a large map, in which vehicles would be useful...and I'll say no more.
Apokolips: Red tints to everything, lots of fire, you get the picture
Darkseid's Throneroom: Red tints, rocky, fire...yeah.
Underwater Maps: ESPECIALLY one of Atlantis.  This is the one that I will most likely do myself, if no-one else volunteers.  I can build off the original Underwater.
Ferris Airfield: If someone could just remove the US symbols from the Airfield map, that's all this needs
Oa: Green.....and....yeah.....
Midway City Museum: Perhaps some kind of version of the 'pictures in an exhibition' level from The Strangers?  I will also do this one if there are no volunteers
New Genisis: A port of a Time Master disc?


Well, that's just a smattering of DC locations that I think might be fun to include.  Feel free to post suggestions.

[Mystik]

oooh we always need the same type of goodies, I got every last one of those maps on my to do list.

about gotham. try deleting the gargoyles and the trucks in FFedit, that might work

[BentonGrey]

Okay TR, I'll give that a try.  Ha, I'm glad that they're on your to-do list, maybe we can split up the work on them, get them done quicker :)

[joemama]

Benton,

I mentioned this a few weeks ago and totally dropped the ball.

http://engineering.freedomu.info/

This page has my "pc" (politically correct) textures.  All Nazi, Soviet, and US insignia have been removed.  This includes the airport hanger, military huts, fuel barrels, military crates, etc.

It should help you with the Airport map and any of the Berlin maps you might be adjusting.

The textures are:
blitz_Shield_Generator.DDS -- removed Nazi insignia
cub_bomber.DDS -- changed to Boeing aircraft
cub_fruit_basket1.DDS -- changed spanish to english
cub_fruit_stand2.DDS -- removed (alpha) sign
cub_fruit_stand3.DDS -- removed (alpha) sign
cub_fruit_stand.DDS -- removed (alpha) sign
cub_fuel_barrels.DDS -- changed U.S. insignia
cub_hangar.DDS -- removed U.S. insignia
cub_hangar_roof.DDS -- removed U.S. insignia
cub_market_crate.DDS -- removed spanish
cub_military_crate.DDS -- removed U.S. insignia
cub_nw_fuel_barrels.DDS -- removed USSR insignia
cub_nw_military_crate.DDS -- removed USSR insignia
cub_nw_military_hut_interior.DDS -- removed USSR insignia
cub_nw_warehouse02.DDS -- removed (alpha) USSR insignia
cub_plane.DDS -- changed to Boeing aircraft
cub_stand_fish.DDS -- removed (alpha) sign
Euros_Generator&Extractor.DDS -- removed Nazi insignia
Ger_Civ_auto1.DDS -- removed (alpha) Nazi insignia
Ger_guard_post.DDS -- removed Nazi insignia
ger_manhole.DDS -- removed Nazi insignia
ger_nazi_ammo.DDS -- removed Nazi insignia
Ger_nazi_barrel.DDS -- removed Nazi insignia
ger_nazi_tank.DDS -- removed Nazi insignia
Ger_park_bench.DDS -- removed (alpha) Nazi insignia
ger_radar_large.DDS -- removed Nazi insignia
ger_radar_small.DDS -- removed Nazi insignia (?)
Ger_RadioTower.DDS -- removed (alpha) Nazi insignia
ger_search_lights.DDS -- removed Nazi insignia
Ger_Sign_Bootmaker.DDS -- removed German writing
Ger_SignButcher.DDS -- removed German writing
Ger_SignHardware.DDS -- removed German writing
Ger_SignPub.DDS -- removed German writing

I've got to get my kid to daycare and then go to work, but I'll put 'skoped items up this afternoon/evening.  These include German factory (no banners) and a few other items (I'm not exactly sure what all I have right now)

Hope it helps

JM

[BentonGrey]

Thanks Joe, no hurry. 

NOTE FOR TESTERS: Hey, as well as testing Green Arrow, please test the Joker as well.  I'm of conflicted mind about my mesh choice and setup.  I'm thinking of moving him back to Joker_Fixed with a 'skoped' gun animation with more contacts.  That way we can take advantage of the C6 skin, pluse the hammer and other custom anims (especially his idle!).  Please tell me what you think!

[Mystik]

working on a joker hex

[Urthman]

I think you should remove bedeviled from Superman. He is not really vulnerable to magic. As far as I know, the problem with it is that Superman has no defenses against it; he is as vulnerable to magic as a regular human being.

I think bedeviled is essential for Superman. 

Superman has a high endurance (9 or 10 in some hero files), meaning he can take lots of punishment before being KOed.  But if he's as vulnerable to magic as a regular human, then his endurance with respect to magic attacks should be 3 or 4.

So, a magic lightning bolt that KOs a normal human ought to KO Superman.  A magic hammer that takes half of a normal human's HP in one blow ought to take half Superman's HP in one blow.

If anything, bedeviled is not enough of a magic penalty to properly simulate the damage Superman ought to take from magical attacks.

[Urthman]

I completely disagree with the way you simulated Aquilles' courage. Why a passive defense? And why one that protects against most types of damage? I think you should remove it and give him fearless instead.

Achilles is where Cap gets is invulnerability, just like he gets his speed from Mercury.

Calling it the "Courage of Achilles" is kind of a joke, I think.  Achilles was dipped in the River Styx, making him completely invulnerable to all harm, except for one spot on his heel where he was being held when he was dipped.  So of course he's "courageous," nothing can hurt him!  His "courage" is not bravery in his heart, but the magic protecting him.

[joemama]

Benton,

The objects are up if you want.  Turns out the only objects I skoped were the Nazi War Factory.  I found a second set of textures for nazi tank and civilian auto (in area_specific\berlin\vehicles\), so I included them in the objects.zip as well.

Use 'em if you want.  If not, no sweat.

JM

[Blitzgott]

BentonGrey:

On the invulnerable thing, I changed my mind because, with physical resistance, uber attacks such as Darkseid's omega blasts won't inflict that much damage. See, with inv. 5 and PR, a hero will be taking only 27 points of damage. If he has only inv. 15, for example, he will take 45 damage. The later is more accurate from a comic book stand point.

I still stand to my point that you should tune down the invulnerability a bit, though. Invulnerability 20 should be the max you give a character, and only to Darkseid-level characters.


On speed, I agree with what you said, but giving 7 to Superman and 8 to Cap. Marvel looks good to me. They are fast, even if not Flash-level. If you just ignore what I said about giving them afterburner, although they will still move faster than Flash when they are airbone, if Flash starts spamming sprints or activates speed force, he'll move faster, so everything will be fine.

On a related note, you overused the fast flier attribute. For Cap. Marvel it makes sense, but Wonder Woman (not sure if you gave it to her)? Martian Manhunter? Green Lanterns? Flier by itself already improves a characters movement speed considerably, so I think you should save fast flier for only the very (very) fast fliers, otherwise it'll look strange, like you even said yourself when you mentioned Flash.


Acrobatic is another thing you overused. I think knockback damage is too much of an important part of the game to be completely ignored by so many characters. You should give acrobatic (amateur) to all those you gave acrobatic to, IMO. They will still avoid knockback damage, but it won't be 100% guaranteed it'll happen.

I think the only character(s) it makes sense giving acrobatic to are characters underwater that would have acrobatic (amateur) when on land, because, underwater, the water resistance makes it easier for one to regain his stability mid-flight, and therefore avoid damage, but even on this I'm not really sure.


You have a point on not giving Supes solar powered. I suggested it because I thought that characters with this attribute would regen energy faster during the day and at a normal pace during the night, but it's not quite like that. You should still give him enhanced senses, though.


Courage of Achilles as a passive defense really doesn't cut it, IMO. Stamina of Atlas makes sense as a passive defense, but since Cap. Marvel already has a bunch of stuff on the defensive department (high endurance and invulnerability) it doesn't seem necessary. If you must give Cap. a passive defense, give one that protects him from all kinds of mystical attacks, because he really excels at it.


Urthman:

I don't think bedeviled is needed for Superman. He is as resistant to magic as any regular person, and since mystical attacks can only inflict direct damage using the power swap mental damage, and invulnerability is not subtracted from such damage, he will be taking as much damage from it as any regular human being. Also, damage inflicted by mental damage attacks is always the same, so him being vulnerable to it will only increase the chances of him taking damage, not the amount.


What gives Cap. his invulnerability is the "stamina of Atlas". I agree that Achilles should be the one giving the invulnerability, though.

[bearded]

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/who/who-intro.php?topic=nightwing-flamebird
no nightwing?  who will flamebird team up with?
isn't there a batcave map somewhere with lots of stuff in it?
for green arrow, i think it's important to be able to run out of arrows.  especially the gimmick arrows.  battery powered works, so does the one that does limited number of uses on powers.  or the archer attribute that gives certain number of shots for different types of arrows.  that last one would need to be reworked a bit, increase the number of uses and the number of types probably.  also, the default animation would have to be changed from ranged 1 to ranged 16, or whichever mesh your using.

[the_ultimate_evil]

working on a joker hex

sort of a thread jack, but what have you planned

[BentonGrey]

Blitz: Okay, I will review fast-flier usage, I'll specifically check those characters you mentioned.  Acrobatic...well, I feel like I've only used it on the most athletic/super fast reflexes type of characters.  Batman and Robin have it, Speedy and Green Arrow, the Flash, but that's about it, if I recall.  I think it's viable for the Dynamic Duo, perhaps a little less so for GA, but I think it still works.  The Flash, I remember Barry being able to pull off some pretty impressive stuff.  I will also take a look at the Marvel PD, not really sure what I'll do with it yet, but I'll let you know.  I'll probably bring it more towards what you suggested.

Thanks Joemama!

Ha, well, that's not the Nightwing I was talking about, but I'm afraid he's a bit too obscure for me to add him :D  I have thought about that Green Arrow issue...and I'm sort of reluctant to do it, mostly out of laziness ;).  I do need to at least test it out, I suppose.  I'll make a note of it, and I'll try to get to it eventually.

[kkhohoho]

Okay.  After a week of a disconnected internet, I'm finally back, and I have been playing the mod.  Things of notice:

-After many meshes not working, I finally found that I did not unload Mesh Pack 1. :P  Now there's only 1 or 2 meshes that don't work.
-Joker can't use his gun.  If he tries to use it and he's currently running, he'll run in place till given another command.
-Mongul doesn't have a single attack.  I checked in the rumble room, and he doesn't have a single one.  None.  Zip.  Nadda.

Now that I'm connected, I'll download the textures. :P  The mod was still great fun though. :)

[BentonGrey]

Okay, I've fixed the Mongul issue....someone forgot to add his attacks to his character..... :unsure: ....whoops.  Ha, Joker, I'm not really sure what could cause that, maybe I have the wrong anim selected.  I think I'll be switching meshes anyway, so I'll look it over when I do that.

[DEATH]

Hey Benton,

     Any chance you could PM me on the mod's location?  I'm interested in shamelessly using you as my inspiration on my Marvel mod.

DEATH

[Shazam]

Oh, has anyone noticed that Doomsday's grapple does not work?

[kkhohoho]

By the way, is Starfire supposed to only have one attack? :huh:

[Blitzgott]

You forgot to include Catwoman's weight.


I noticed that you gave Darkseid two three contacts beam attacks; Hawkgirl, an eight (or so) contacts cone attack, and Firestorm an eight (or so) contacts direct attack. Just though I'd let you know that cone, beam and direct attacks do not support multiple contact animations. If you choose those animations only for the look instead of the extra contacts, then just ignore this remark.

[BentonGrey]

Bingo Blitzgott, just for the looks.  I'll fix Catwoman's weight right away. 

Starfire should have two...well....actually, she should have three, but I can't find fx for the other one I want, so I'll have to spend some time searching.  Thanks for the reminder.

Doomsday's grapple is probably an FX problem, as I didn't tweak that power.  I'll look into it.

Death, no problem, but remember, it's VERY rough at the moment.

[Blitzgott]

Vigilante and Amazo's weights are also missing.

Oh, and Starfire has three powers here. She has a melee attack, a beam attack and a passive defense.

Edit: That's funny... I checked Starfire built-in and she had three attacks. Now I checked again and she has three power slots filled, but where her melee attack should be is a "power0" thing of some sort.

[kkhohoho]

More bugs:
-Question's melle attacks are the only attacks of his that work.
-Martain Manhunter can't turn invisible.

[BentonGrey]

Seriously Kkhohoho?  Man, I spent some time on him too, I'll have to check that out.  I'll see about the Manhunter issue.  Thanks Blitzgott, I'll fix those.

Yeah.......I know about that, and I haven't a clue what causes it.  Would someone be so kind as to test her in the RR and see if all of her attacks show up and actually work?

[Blitzgott]

The thing with some powers not working is because of the fx. I was having the same problem, but then I changed the fx of Joker's joker gun and it started working normally. BG must have forgotten to include on the .zip some of the fx he used.

Edit: On Martian Manhunter, you forgot to set the special type tag of his invisibility power to cloak.

You also forgot to set the stat swap of Doomsday's grappling power (unless I misunderstood and the power is supposed to inflict density instead of pull).

[kkhohoho]

The thing with some powers not working is because of the fx. I was having the same problem, but then I changed the fx of Joker's joker gun and it started working normally. BG must have forgotten to include on the .zip some of the fx he used.

Edit: On Martian Manhunter, you forgot to set the special type tag of his invisibility power to cloak.

You also forgot to set the stat swap of Doomsday's grappling power (unless I misunderstood and the power is supposed to inflict density instead of pull).

I don't know how to change the FX because the're built ins.  Is there a way to do this in game, or do I have to use the FF2 editor?

[Blitzgott]

I don't know how to change the FX because the're built ins.  Is there a way to this in game, or do I have to use the FF2 editor?

You have to use FFEdit.


Black Manta's trident mini-missiles is not working either due to missing fx.


You set the three Aquamen and Atom Smasher's powers and attributes' start levels in a way that they do not start with everything you gave them.

[Blitzgott]

Other than his passive defense and cloaking power, everything on Shade's tier b does not work.

[BentonGrey]

Thanks guys, this is exactly the kind of stuff I need to know about.  It looks like I'm going to be busy tonight.

[BentonGrey]

Okay guys, everything is fixed except for: Captain Marvel (I'll probably provide a custom attribute for him eventually), Joker (switching to a new mesh), and Manta (ditto). 

[quiet]

superman has the power "super super combo" but I don't see it in the powers tab of the editor, instead I see "super blitz".