Marvel U: Iron Man's Dystopia

[Spe-Dog]

 :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler:





Seriously?  That is it?  All that time, all the delays, all of it for what?  Civil War #7 was so hyped and then just landed with a thud.  The boards are alive with the sound of anger all over the net.  IGN was right when they voted Tony Stark (at least as he appears in Civil War and it's tie-ins) as villian of the year in '06.  I wanted some redemption of the character.  This can't really be the way that he's going to be going forward.  He is such and egotistical, over the top arrogant, smarmy sack of sludge here.  He's smug facing off with Captain America who is supposed to be his best friend.  He's sexist and demeaning to Maria Hill (who in my opinion so richly deserved it) and then is sipping lattes with Miriam Sharpe and smiling on the SHIELD helicarrier while his 'friend' Steve Rogers is rotting in jail, and apparently not the nice, pleasant Negative Zone prison either.  Not a touch of remorse for what he's done to anyone.  Locking up HEROES, taking away their personal and private freedoms (even the ones that did register had to give that up). betraying long time friends and allies...the list goes on.  As portrayed here, he is pretty much a low-rent Dr. Doom in a lot of ways.  Captain America realized that this particular argument could not be solved with fists anymore.  Resisting was the right thing to do, but this was not the way to do it.  Cap is a soldier of the people and once he lost touch with what they wanted (even though it means bad things for them too) it was over.  Cap, Spidey, and the rest knew that this was the first step on a slippery slope that could lead to something out of Orwell's 1984, not just for their fellow heroes but for the common man as well.  The common person in the Marvel U doesn't see that at this time, they just want to feel safe...and they will just like most Americans did after 911 when all the legislation was going through.  However, now they are questioning if it was a good idea and the public opinion has really swung the other way and a lot of common people think that government may have overstepped it's bounds.  The same will probably happen eventually in the Marvel U when the rest of Tony's, Reed's, and Hank's police state ideas come out.  Throwing people into lockdown without rights, or a trial for eternity just because they are different?  Yeah, it didn't go over in the X-Men books years ago, but apparently fascism is more palatable now to the common Marvel inhabitant; I mean it worked so well for America during WWII and at Gitmo, right?  I see a lot of parallels to DC's Kingdom Come in this story.  Captain America (Superman) has given up his never-ending battle because the people turned their backs on him.  They wanted to feel safer so they embrace a new, harsher way of dealing with superpowered threats put forth by Iron Man (Magog).  Eventually, the world is in the toilet, and people find humanity is losing ground the the new regime.  Will this all be tied up later by the return of Captain America?  Will Miriam Sharpe threaten to leak the superheroes secret ID's to keep them in check?  If so, what happens when those who have registered start seeing their loved ones gunned down by psychotics?  Will Tony just play the fiddle while the whole thing burns?  I know both sides are heroes, but in this single issue from Simon punching Cloak to Tony having a coffee break with Miriam, the pro-reg people are portrayed as having no qualms about trampling anything or anyone who gets in the way of their government ordained rightness.  They are shown to be thugs and bullies to any super powered person they come in contact with despite any personal feelings or experiences they may have with that person.  "Hey, I know that the people of America owe you their lives about 100 times over, but they want you arrested now because you think you are entitled to the same freedoms that they are".  I was so angry about this that I nearly tore my issue in half.  Security is more important than freedom, is that the message?  Joe Q, this is the ending we didn't want, you were right about that, but not the one we needed.  The Marvel Universe: where great power means a responsibility to a government mandate to join the army or face a lifetime of imprisonment without trial.   :thumbdown:

[Dweomer Knight]

I bought and read all the Civil Wars yesterday.  I have to agree with you Spe-Dog, the ending was, at best, anticlimatic.  Not even just Iron Man but many others on his side I'm having a hard time viewing as heroes right now. 

In Illuminati, Namor, Black Panther and Dr. Strange were appalled at Iron Man's plans (which is at odds with Strange's later conversation with Uatu in CW #7, where his rationale for not getting involved was rather weak I thought; especially when in Illuminati he called the entire plan manipulative and playing off of people's fears). 

I also don't buy Cap's surrender or his reason for doing it.  I don't accept that damaging a few streets and apartment buildings would cause a complete collapse of Cap's psyche. 

Iron Man doesn't even acknowledge Dr. Strange's or Luke Cage's arguements for why what's being done is wrong.  Reed Richards doesn't even acknowledge his wife's heartfelt plea that you can't view people as just numbers and statistics.  Yet at the end he has his own plea for his wife that she (apparently) accepts.  Ugh. 

Thor's hammer Mjolnir has always been very picky about who it would let hold it.  I don't believe for a second that a psychotic fake Thor would have been able to wield the hammer. 

The story had some good moments at various points but the ending/resolution was atrocious.  So is the US a police state now?  That's how it sounded to me.  The only ray of hope I see is that the New Avengers under Luke Cage are not giving up the fight.  I think it's going to be in May where they have the New Avengers fighting Iron Man's new team (the Mighty Avengers).  We'll see where that goes.

DK

[Agent]

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The boards are alive with the sound of anger all over the net.  IGN was right when they voted Tony Stark (at least as he appears in Civil War and it's tie-ins) as villian of the year in '06.  I wanted some redemption of the character.  This can't really be the way that he's going to be going forward.  He is such and egotistical, over the top arrogant, smarmy sack of sludge here. 

I can't speak for New Avengers since I don't read it but in his own title this wasn't the case.  Tony was genuinely conflicted about what he was doing almost to the point of a full on depression.  He was also torn up by the fact that he and Cap were at odds in Casualties of War.  The inconsistency between those portrayals and the one in CW is why I say Millar wasn't writing Tony Stark he was writing the Invincible Generic Rich Guy.  If Millar had actually portrayed that insecurity and inner conflict for not just Tony but all the pro-reg heros, fan reaction wouldn't have been so one sided and Marvel wouldn't need as much damage control for those characters now.

[Dweomer Knight]

I'm glad to hear that Agent.  One of my friends is a huge, huge Avengers nut (of which Iron Man has frequently been a part of so I've read quite a few issues over the years) and I didn't care for the CW portrayal of him.  It's good that, at least in his own title, he wasn't portrayed so one-dimensionally. 

DK

[captmorgan72]

[quote author=Dweomer Knight link=topic=41342.msg575927#msg575927 date=1172253070   

Thor's hammer Mjolnir has always been very picky about who it would let hold it.  I don't believe for a second that a psychotic fake Thor would have been able to wield the hammer. 


DK
[/quote]

That hammer wasn't Mjolnir by the way. Reed made it, just a techno war hammer made to mimic and look like Mjolnir.

[Talavar]

We've been talking about a lot of the same stuff in the comic review thread, and I mostly agree.  I can see why people would want super-powered people registered with the government, but the methods and attitudes of the pro-reg side ranges between super-villainous to the just plain jerky.

[Dweomer Knight]

[quote author=Dweomer Knight link=topic=41342.msg575927#msg575927 date=1172253070   

Thor's hammer Mjolnir has always been very picky about who it would let hold it.  I don't believe for a second that a psychotic fake Thor would have been able to wield the hammer. 


DK

That hammer wasn't Mjolnir by the way. Reed made it, just a techno war hammer made to mimic and look like Mjolnir.
[/quote]


I hate it when I somehow miss stuff like that.

DK

[EDIT]  Though it makes me wonder, if it was just a techno hammer, why go through all that trouble of falling from the sky biz? 

[Talavar]

The hammer that fell from the sky in Fantastic Four was the real Mjolnir; the guy who picked it up is still conspicuously absent.  The hammer Bizarro-Thor was using wasn't it.

[GhostMachine]

The problem with Civil War is, they've painted themselves into a corner.

They can't eventually pull some sort of cop out like DC did with Hal Jordan and make it so Tony wasn't responsible for his actions, and I don't see any way that Tony can redeem himself and still be a hero. What he's done has gone beyond misguidance or misunderstanding and into the realm of villainy.

Iron Man used to be one of my favorite Marvel heroes. Probably my second favorite after Cap, in fact. But the character has been screwed with an twisted so much that I can't stand him now.

Hopefully, they'll do some kind of sequel that has a lot of damage control. Stark as head of S.H.I.E.L.D.? I don't think so. Is the Fury controlled LMD still running around? If so, then Nick could screw up Stark's plans considerably.

I hate to say it, but I wish someone would assassinate Stark, and make it so they can't later bring him back and reveal it was actually an LMD that was shot or whatever. Tony Stark is now one of the most dangerous villains in the MU, and is NOT a hero, and some kind of `he was being manipulated by Psycho Man or Hate Monger' or `its Kang....again' type of bs to let him off the hook will NOT be acceptable.

Civil War should have ended with either some of the pro-reg heroes realizing that they've been going about things the wrong way and turning on Stark, not with the pro-reg side winning, no matter if the public was on their side or not.

The whole series shows another reason why Mark Millar sucks as a writer and why Joe Q should be ousted as EIC, because it wouldn't ended the way it did with someone competent behind it and might have actually been a good series if characters were actually written in character.

I hope Marvel's readership drops off sharply as a result of this crap and the powers that be have the sense to fire Joe Q. But that probably won't happen.

[lugaru]

I hope Marvel's readership drops off sharply as a result of this crap and the powers that be have the sense to fire Joe Q. But that probably won't happen.

That's because WE are not the totality of marvel readership. And honestly I dont mind the ending too much, I think it's kind of hardcore that the badguys won. Then again Im the kind of guy who loves movies with unhappy endings as they seem more realist to me. Also with the lack of tons of mutants well now unregistered heroes are the new mutant, and well worth a few years of original storytelling hooks. Also I think it is a great political commentary, I mean expect to see "dont blame me, I was anti-registration" bumper stickers and "free negative zone detainee" t-shirts.  ;)

Was everything perfectly executed? Nope. Am I glad that Iron man acted the way he did? Nope.

And on the subject of clone thors hammer let me add one thing: pay attention to the pannel. You will notice it was not much harder than clone thors head (heheeh, ouch!).

And on Captain America I agree with one thing he said: "We are not fighting for the people, we are simply fighting". It is sad that he surrendered but then again his oponents where not going to until every innocent hero and civilian had suffered a considerable price.

[Talavar]

I hope the World War Hulk event has Hulk beating the ever-loving **** out of most of the mainstream Marvel characters when he comes back.  Come on, the only pro-reg hero Hulk couldn't wipe the floor with is the Sentry, and they're supposedly BFFs anyway.  Maybe the Sentry will help him.

[thanoson]

Well, if Hulk inlist some of his new friends, then the eorlds gonna have issues.

[Spe-Dog]

This was an excerpt from Axel Alonzo's comments on the Newsarama site at the editors panel yesterday:

"The growing diversity of the Marvel Comics' line excited Axel Alonso. He discussed how Civil War used superheroes to comment on the cost of freedom and how much freedom people will give up to have security."

They don't get it.  The thing that gets me is the people of the Marvel U are pretty ungrateful to their protectors.  It's not how many freedoms and liberties the people gave up to feel secure, just that the people sacrificed the HEROES' freedom and liberties so that the people could feel safe.  This costs the average person nothing, while it costs the hero EVERYTHING.

[Talavar]

This was an excerpt from Axel Alonzo's comments on the Newsarama site at the editors panel yesterday:

"The growing diversity of the Marvel Comics' line excited Axel Alonso. He discussed how Civil War used superheroes to comment on the cost of freedom and how much freedom people will give up to have security."

They don't get it.  The thing that gets me is the people of the Marvel U are pretty ungrateful to their protectors.  It's not how many freedoms and liberties the people gave up to feel secure, just that the people sacrificed the HEROES' freedom and liberties so that the people could feel safe.  This costs the average person nothing, while it costs the hero EVERYTHING.

I can see that though.  The normal people aren't stand-ins for normal people in real life, the super-heroes are, and most of them were willing to give up almost everything for this "greater security" too. 

[lugaru]

This was an excerpt from Axel Alonzo's comments on the Newsarama site at the editors panel yesterday:

"The growing diversity of the Marvel Comics' line excited Axel Alonso. He discussed how Civil War used superheroes to comment on the cost of freedom and how much freedom people will give up to have security."

They don't get it.  The thing that gets me is the people of the Marvel U are pretty ungrateful to their protectors.  It's not how many freedoms and liberties the people gave up to feel secure, just that the people sacrificed the HEROES' freedom and liberties so that the people could feel safe.  This costs the average person nothing, while it costs the hero EVERYTHING.

Dude... comment = criticism in this case. The idea is that if the state of the marvel universe makes you mad the current state of politics should make you mad. Dont think of it as a comic about everyone's favorite hero beating up a villain and going home. Think of it as a comic about the government changing its definition of who is good and who is bad, of what certain crimes mean... and people having to choose if they are going to sit idly or fight back. Also it's not canned rebellion like the V for Vendetta movie... here they fought the law and the law won.

[Spe-Dog]

I get it.  It's just that in the real world, the good guys don't win; more often than not the bad ones do.  I expect better in the comics.  Even when something like this happens there is some light or redeeming quality shown and here there was none.  The arrogance of the pro-reg side, in particular Iron Man in this issue really left a bad taste in my mouth.  I almost expect him to show up in Cap's cell to do the "I told you so" dance.  In this issue, and others, a lot of the pro-reg side have been portrayed as pretty cavalier when it came to FORCING friends to register or JAILING them.  These are people that they have bled with and fought with.  I wanted to see more conflict and emotion  from the pro-reg heroes and all I got was Tony being the king of jerks and Simon's emotion of anger that the plan was screwed up.  Aside from that, no one among the pro-reg side even gave a care that they were not jailing villians, but heroes and friends.  That should mean something more.

[GhostMachine]

That's one of my biggest gripes about CW:

If people had been written in character and the pro-reg side had acted as heroes conflicted because they have to battle and capture other heroes...some of whom they've been close allies and friends with....it might have worked. Instead, they acted more or less as cold-blooded jerks who didnt care that they were battling other heroes and used tactics that were more suited to what villains would do, such as the Thor clone. It doesn't matter that the public was on the pro-reg side, because the pro-reg `heroes' crossed the line and committed villainous acts.

So I guess once the Mighty Avengers series hits the stands, we'll have yet another villain book out.

[Dweomer Knight]

That's one of my biggest gripes about CW:

If people had been written in character and the pro-reg side had acted as heroes conflicted because they have to battle and capture other heroes...some of whom they've been close allies and friends with....it might have worked. Instead, they acted more or less as cold-blooded jerks who didnt care that they were battling other heroes and used tactics that were more suited to what villains would do, such as the Thor clone. It doesn't matter that the public was on the pro-reg side, because the pro-reg `heroes' crossed the line and committed villainous acts.

So I guess once the Mighty Avengers series hits the stands, we'll have yet another villain book out.

Agreed.  The pro-reg side was portrayed so one-dimensionally that it's difficult to ascribe anything less than outright villainy to them.  I'm glad that Stark was portrayed as more conflicted in the actual Iron Man comic but, unfortunately, a lot of people will read CW but not the individual character titles.

Just my opinion, but I hated the whole mutant hysteria thing.  You've got a 100' Dormmamu striding down New York, Galactus trying to eat the planet on numerous occassions, Terminus wipes out the entire Savage Land etc. etc. and what do people freak out about: "Jubilee, get her!"  I understand that mutant hatred was meant to mimic discrimination in its various forms but within the MU itself, it made little sense to me that people were so worked up over mutants but had no problems with other hero types; many of whom were vastly more powerful and dangerous.

DK

[BentonGrey]

DK, I understand your confusion about the mutant hysteria stories, but I would suggest that you pick up Alex Ross and Kurt Busiek's 'Marvels.'  It does a really wonderful job of creating a discernable.......thread in the Marvel Universe.  It's a really interesting look at the births of the the heroes and villains from the eyes of a man living in the time.  It actually, at least to my thinking, provided a very good explination about why people were so upset about mutants.

[Dweomer Knight]

DK, I understand your confusion about the mutant hysteria stories, but I would suggest that you pick up Alex Ross and Kurt Busiek's 'Marvels.'  It does a really wonderful job of creating a discernable.......thread in the Marvel Universe.  It's a really interesting look at the births of the the heroes and villains from the eyes of a man living in the time.  It actually, at least to my thinking, provided a very good explination about why people were so upset about mutants.

How should I look for them?  Are they trades?

DK

[BentonGrey]

I believe it's only been done as a graphic novel, at least that's what I've got.  I'll encourage you to pick it up, it is a REALLY wonderful story, and an absolute delight for any Marvel fan.

[detourne_me]

Just my opinion, but I hated the whole mutant hysteria thing.  You've got a 100' Dormmamu striding down New York, Galactus trying to eat the planet on numerous occassions, Terminus wipes out the entire Savage Land etc. etc. and what do people freak out about: "Jubilee, get her!"  I understand that mutant hatred was meant to mimic discrimination in its various forms but within the MU itself, it made little sense to me that people were so worked up over mutants but had no problems with other hero types; many of whom were vastly more powerful and dangerous.

DK

well, we got billions of dollars being put into an ineffective war machine (killing thousands on all sides) that could be better spent on eliminating poverty and researching renewable energy resources, but still people are afraid of two men getting married or a teenager choosing not to have a baby...
and thats the essence of the x-men, and why for the most part they've been much more popular than Avengers et al,
but well, Civil War kicked in and ideological differences create controversy, and look at what we got,  the new avengers have topped x-men.
its a rather interesting shift having stories about the underdogs and the discriminated upon, to having stories about upholding and evolving the status quo (illuminati being a prime example)...
actually strike that,  its plain demographics, marvel has been built upon it. baby boomers and generations afterwards are the inspiration and reflection of marvel comics since peter parker was a twinkle in Stan Lee's eye.

[BentonGrey]

Ha, not exactly DM....but your general point is true enough.

[MyndVizion]

I have no problem with creating conflict amongst heroes in order to tell a good story. But one of the things I would expect with the writing is to stay consistent with the characters.

Cap is a soldier. And by that account has a good understanding of what war is all about.  How many countless times has Cap been involved in battles/conflicts that resulted in destruction of civilian property? To just all of a sudden throw his arms in the air and surrender seems a bit flat.  It feels as if the writer didn't know how to end the event.  I would have preferred to see Cap go out fighting, maybe getting jumped by several other "heroes" and winding up in the hospital - with the head of the resistance out of action the remaining force begins to crumble into defeat. 

We already knew Cap was going to lose - he had too many odds stacked against him. It would be foolish to believe that Cap and his few resistance fighters would be able to defeat S.H.I.E.L.D. and overturn a political law in a 7 issue event.

In the Captain America Iron Man Casualties of War, Captain America says a line that reminded me why he's a "hero". Cap said, "What's right is what's right. If you believe it you stand up for it."  This is a man who is standing for what he believes in, even when the idea is not popular, even when public opinion is against him.  Yet in Issue 7 Cap folds and changes course like a politician reviewing the latest negative polls.  I expected something more from one of the premier heroes of the Marvel U.

As far as Stark is concerned, well that character has been totally obliterated. Even when he was battling with alcohol that was a dark side of Tony that readers could rally support for him to "get clean". His drinking primarily affected Tony only. While his drunken binges may have lashed out to others around him, the episodes were typically constrained and easily dealt with which only built on the heroic deeds Tony did while he was sober. In essence Tony was making up for all of the heartache he caused friends while he was Iron Man.

If during Civil War the depression of attacking friends such as Cap, Spider-Man, etc caused Tony to fall back into a drunken jerk, then there may have been more compassion from the readers. Instead we were treated to a Tony who's just plainly a jerk.

I can't even stand Mister Fantastic anymore after Civil War.  While I never was a Fantastic Four fan, I never thought of Mr. F one way or another. But to completely throw away his marriage is deplorable. I could never see myself continuing a war knowing I would meet my wife on the battlefield. I would have to respectfully bow out of the entire thing.  And I agree with a previous poster - creating a clone of Thor to battle other heroes is akin to somebody like Dr Doom.

Apparently the only way to write conflict at Marvel is to just step all over characters and make them do something completely against their nature. I would rather have seen all the Marvel heroes battling the US military/SHIELD as the Civil War and watch villains run amok while the heroes are in hiding.  The other thing that turned me off of Civil War was the whole registration act.  It's too similar to the Mutant Registration Act.  Where was Tony Stark when all that was going down in 616?  I know, getting all fat off his government contracts, drinking, and relishing in the fact that he didn't have to register.  And yet he has the audacity to go to the X Mansion and ask the mutants to join his side???

The Marvel villain list now looks like:

1. Tony Stark
2. Reed Richards
3. Dr. Doom
4. Magneto
5. Galactus

Galactus doesn't care he's just hungry. Magneto thinks the whole Civil War fiasco is a nice diversion and humorous at best. Dr. Doom is mad that he's being out done by his own nemesis. Reed is to narrowminded to see the forest for the trees. Tony is now set for an amazing downfall.

When Hulk comes back to earth I hope he smashes Iron Man into a pulp along with his super villain teams. 

Something tells me Avengers North Dakota isn't going to be seeing much action.

[Dweomer Knight]

Just my opinion, but I hated the whole mutant hysteria thing.  You've got a 100' Dormmamu striding down New York, Galactus trying to eat the planet on numerous occassions, Terminus wipes out the entire Savage Land etc. etc. and what do people freak out about: "Jubilee, get her!"  I understand that mutant hatred was meant to mimic discrimination in its various forms but within the MU itself, it made little sense to me that people were so worked up over mutants but had no problems with other hero types; many of whom were vastly more powerful and dangerous.

DK

well, we got billions of dollars being put into an ineffective war machine (killing thousands on all sides) that could be better spent on eliminating poverty and researching renewable energy resources, but still people are afraid of two men getting married or a teenager choosing not to have a baby...
and thats the essence of the x-men, and why for the most part they've been much more popular than Avengers et al,
but well, Civil War kicked in and ideological differences create controversy, and look at what we got,  the new avengers have topped x-men.
its a rather interesting shift having stories about the underdogs and the discriminated upon, to having stories about upholding and evolving the status quo (illuminati being a prime example)...
actually strike that,  its plain demographics, marvel has been built upon it. baby boomers and generations afterwards are the inspiration and reflection of marvel comics since peter parker was a twinkle in Stan Lee's eye.

Well, I don't want to say too much on your first point because it'll just devolve into a political debate.  However, even if we weren't at war, I highly doubt that those monies would be going towards poverty and alternative fuels.

As far as controversy boosting sales, what controversy?  CW is widely regarded as a poorly written poorly portrayed piece of crud.  And X-Men had as many Civil War issues as New Avengers did.  So I have trouble believing that had anything to do with any sales boost.  The mutant hysteria wasn't confined to X-Men either.  It came up in Thor, the Avengers and many others.  Scarlet Witch was frequently a target of anti-mutant sentiment during her time as an Avenger.  One slur was made by a guy standing right next to Cap.  Of course, Cap goes off on the guy but Tigra is standing right there perfectly accepted by everyone.  I fail to see, to a normal Joe in MU, what the distinction is.

I'm very interested in finding 'Marvels' and seeing what the take there is but until I do, Mutant Hysteria remains, in my mind, a poor and wildly inconsistent attempt at mimicing social ills (namely discrimination) in the comics.  And X-Men didn't hit huge popularity until the second team which contained (surprise, surprise) Wolverine who's popularity had nothing to do with the Mutant Hysteria theme.  I always thought Rogue was the most interesting character pertaining to the Hysteria theme, and no one gives crap one about her.

I have no problem with them trying to work in social ills in the comics; I just don't think the Mutant Hysteria succeeded.  And from an internal MU point of view, made little sense to me.  Who knows though, maybe 'Marvels' will change my mind.

DK

[Dweomer Knight]

MyndVizion: There are many reasons people have given why they don't like Civil War but you've highlighted the one that seems to stand above the rest: bad (sometimes really bad) character portrayals.  Cap has been at odds with both the government and the public before and his insta-psyche collapse is pretty lame and hard to swallow.

Not to this scale, but hero vs hero has happened before.  The X-Men and Alpha Flight hated each other for years, and fought each other more than once.  It can be done and done well.  CW had its moments, but on the whole, just wasn't done well.

DK

[thanoson]

So, issue 7 of the parody is up. Two thumbs up.

[Agent]

It's too similar to the Mutant Registration Act.  Where was Tony Stark when all that was going down in 616?  I know, getting all fat off his government contracts, drinking, and relishing in the fact that he didn't have to register.  And yet he has the audacity to go to the X Mansion and ask the mutants to join his side???

Wrong.  Tony Stark and pretty much all of Marvel's big name heroes opposed the Mutant Registration Act.  That's another reason why the pro-reg side's actions didn't make sense.  A lot of them opposed legislation that was almost exactly the same as the SHRA in the past. 

In fact, Reed Richards testified against the Mutant Registration Act before Congress.

[Pyroclasm]

...and characters changing their minds on issues when there are only slight situational changes directly mimics real life politics.  I'll try to make examples while trying to avoid direct reference to RL issues. (ha!  Good Luck)  There have been conflicts in which certain governments have declared outrage at the treatment of social/ethnic groups.  Skip to another situation in which there is a percieved threat to a country, and it becomes ok to imprison, threaten or railroad a minority group in the name of safety.  I know people who cry out discrimination when it comes to their situation, but in another conversation can talk about rounding up or kicking out another ethnic group because "they're all the same".  "Civil War" is not that far from reality.  I eagerly anticipate what will come next.

[lugaru]

Well another thing is that it is a continuation of a certain undercurrent in the superhero genre. For a while we have seen lots of comics that toy with the idea of enforcing the arrest of vigilantes. Two of the classics (watchmen, dark knight returns) present worlds where superheroes cannot exist in the classic sense. Incredibles too, since using superheroes to stop crime is like stopping muggers with tanks (insert tank police reference). The collateral damage was worse than the crimes commited and superheroes break laws and infringe on the rights of others for a living (she-hulk's recent comics play with this notion a lot). Authority presents a world where super powers means ultimate power. Ultimates and supereme power play with those ideas too, of superheroes as weapons controlled by a very clever and resourcefull state. Pretty much every Image or post podern comic is about goverment heroes and criminal vigilantes except when being intentionally retro.

This development is the idea that its easier to believe that a man can fly and wield the power of lightning than to believe that the goverment and the people will sit around and do nothing about it. I like this, its more cerebral at least than the whole bad girls thing, at least we dont have to deal with hologram covers of tony stark in spedos.