Need some advice...

[Gremlin]

Beware, all, you are about to enter the maddening world of teenage drama.  Those who prefer to ignore such truck, or are just going to laugh at the foolish arrogance of adolencents, would do best to pass over this thread.

So, I broke up with my girlfriend of 15 months about seven weeks ago.  Naturally, this has not been terribly pleasant, especially considering she was my first girlfriend ever.  It hasn't helped that she's tried to remain friends, either; I appreciate the gesture, but it's not really helping me, especially since it seems she's completely over me and is possibly seeing another guy now (she goes to a different school, so I don't know for sure).

Recently I've been hanging out more with a friend I've known for three years, because we're in another play together.  I used to have a big crush on her, which subsided (mostly) before I started dating my ex.  However, for about two weeks I've started to like her again.  A lot.  I can't get her out of my head, and for the first time in ages, it's starting to get hard to talk to her because I'm so scared I'll let something slip before I have a better understanding of what's going on.

Oh, it gets better.  This girl has a crush, I'm not sure how severe, on another guy.  Not only any other guy, a guy who is dating a close friend of mine.  This close friend has been great since my breakup with my ex, and has been a sort of therapist for me during the whole thing.  But now even she's stuck, and she normally knows just about everything.  So I don't even know if I even have the slightest chance with her.

So I'm kind of in a pickle.  I don't know if my feelings towards her are genuine or just a rebound from this other relationship.  If they are real, what should I do?  I don't know if she'll return them.  If she doesn't, I don't want things to get awkward for the rest of the play's run, and I really don't want anything weird to linger between us and carry on to the next show, especially since we are good friends.  Any thoughts?

[Mr. Hamrick]

Beware, all, you are about to enter the maddening world of teenage drama.  Those who prefer to ignore such truck, or are just going to laugh at the foolish arrogance of adolencents, would do best to pass over this thread.

I wish I could tell you that'd it get easier when you get older kid.  But hey, I'm not gonna lie to ya.  There are NO guarantees of that kind in life.  However, I will try to make you a few guarantees before its over.  I will tell you up front that this sort of thing is not solely in the realm of teenage drama.  It can happen to anyone at any age. 

So, I broke up with my girlfriend of 15 months about seven weeks ago.  Naturally, this has not been terribly pleasant, especially considering she was my first girlfriend ever.  It hasn't helped that she's tried to remain friends, either; I appreciate the gesture, but it's not really helping me, especially since it seems she's completely over me and is possibly seeing another guy now (she goes to a different school, so I don't know for sure).

Been there, seen that, done that.  First piece of advice.  Tell the ex that you're cool with her wanting to be friends but that you need some time to yourself given the circumstances.  If she really values the "friendship" then she'll understand.  If she doesn't immediately then she will eventually.  The first guarantee that I will make you comes right here: If you truly cared about her to begin with then you always will on some level and vice versa.  There are certain relationships that I've been in that I've kicked myself for squandering.  A few that I look back on and note that I begrudginly did the right thing even if it doesn't look like it sometimes. 

Recently I've been hanging out more with a friend I've known for three years, because we're in another play together.  I used to have a big crush on her, which subsided (mostly) before I started dating my ex.  However, for about two weeks I've started to like her again.  A lot.  I can't get her out of my head, and for the first time in ages, it's starting to get hard to talk to her because I'm so scared I'll let something slip before I have a better understanding of what's going on.

The easiest thing for a person to do is to misread emotions.  Their own or someone else's.  A girl once said to me that I was in love with her but what she represented to me.  The dame was right . . . sometimes you're gonna hate it when she's right.  Still, it doesn't change that I loved certain things about her and still do.  The girl that you're in the play with, the one who use you to have a crush on, you need to consider taking Billy Joel's advice and "Tell her about it".  Just be careful how you telll her about it.  Don't make it sound like you have a three year old crush on her.  Bring up to her subtly the things you admire about her, why you think you and her "click".  Go listen to the Billy Joel song.  You can find it on ITunes. 

Oh, it gets better.  This girl has a crush, I'm not sure how severe, on another guy.  Not only any other guy, a guy who is dating a close friend of mine.  This close friend has been great since my breakup with my ex, and has been a sort of therapist for me during the whole thing.  But now even she's stuck, and she normally knows just about everything.  So I don't even know if I even have the slightest chance with her.

Look, there will always be another guy to some extent.  Even if that guy is a girl's unrealistic fantasy about Brad Pitt, there is going to be another guy to some extent.  Here is your second guarantee, if you let the possibility that she has another guy she is crushing on prevent you from the chance that you might have with her then you WILL regret it.  Somewhere in the back of you mind, you'll always wonder what if. 

So I'm kind of in a pickle.  I don't know if my feelings towards her are genuine or just a rebound from this other relationship.  If they are real, what should I do?  I don't know if she'll return them.  If she doesn't, I don't want things to get awkward for the rest of the play's run, and I really don't want anything weird to linger between us and carry on to the next show, especially since we are good friends.  Any thoughts?

Grimmie, you're not anywhere near the process of preparing a food by soaking and storing it in a brine containing salt and/or acid (usually vinegar) and if you are then get away from the food processor.  At the very least, wait till after the play's run.  You may drop a few suggestions to send out a few feelers to see.  Address the situation as something that has been on your mind.  How much more you and her have in common than you and your ex or something like that. 

I'd also suggest going out and buying a copy of Casablanca and a copy of Billy Joel's album "An Innocent Man". 

Hope that helps.

[Reepicheep]

Personally, I'd marry Glitch Girl and call it a day.

[Glitch Girl]

Okay, how did I get involved in this?   :blink:

And I wouldn't listen to Reep's advice - he's obviously dilusional.

[Gremlin]

I love "Innocent Man," it's one of my favorite Billy Joel albums.  My dad's a big fan and when we finally got the record player repaired, I tore through a bunch of my parents' stuff, and I decided Billy Joel was officially awesome.  Although I still need to see Casablanca...

Thanks for the advice, Hamrick.

[El Condor]

I don't know if my feelings towards her are genuine or just a rebound from this other relationship.  If they are real, what should I do?  I don't know if she'll return them.  If she doesn't, I don't want things to get awkward for the rest of the play's run, and I really don't want anything weird to linger between us and carry on to the next show, especially since we are good friends.  Any thoughts?

My main piece of advice: for the love of God, don't risk a good friendship over a moment of romantic distress! 

I say this with only great sympathy and acute remembrance of this exact moment in my life: a late-teen years guy having had his first deep, intoxicating sips from the Fountain of Wuv.  You know what I mean, Grem - the nearly paralyzing, everpresent thoughts of her, the songs played over and over, the inadvisable urge to write....

You're not quite sure as to what these feelings for your friend truly are.  I won't attempt a guess and you really shouldn't waste a lot of time trying to figure it out either.  You have too much post-relationship turmoil going on in your heart and mind to figure it out yet.  I had a crazy, soundtrack-accompanied crush on a friend in high school (my music was Styx - ouch!); she never returned it but stayed a best buddy of mine.  Then I had my first twue wuv relationship. First kiss, more songs (better ones this time), *sigh*
That ended, agonizingly, over college. But I remained great pals with my other friend.  I am now 38, we've both moved on to marriage and families, and our friendship continues to this day!  :D The funny thing is, I've never stopped thinking that she's kind of a hottie, but that doesn't come close to mattering as much as the actual relationship we've developed. 

Being a chorus and theater guy I know that you're in a sticky spot - plays and performances bring people together in an intimate, bonding environment as, all the while, you are working deliberately to get in touch with your expressive selves.  Fertile ground for misty-eyed moments, to be sure.  I strongly urge you to discipline yourself to stay good friends with this girl, and just that for now.  Once you've had some time to clear rebound-territory, you'll be better able to know what the feelings really are. But a good friendship is like gold, amigo, and wouldn't it be great to see her at your 20th reunion, still buds after all those years and not just a fond memory?

Good luck,

EC

[Alaric]

My main piece of advice: for the love of God, don't risk a good friendship over a moment of romantic distress! 

I don't know about that... Years ago, when I was in a similar situation, I did in fact tell the woman involved about my feelings. She didn't return them, but we've stayed very close friends anyway, and I don't regret having told her.

I don't think there are any absolute rules about this sort of thing, unfortunately. It varies on a case-by-case basis. Ultimately, you have to find the right instincts in yourself, and trust them. Even then, there are no guarantees.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

Court your enemies, not your friends.

That is all.

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and You Know the Rest

[stumpy]

Oh, it gets better.  This girl has a crush, I'm not sure how severe, on another guy.  Not only any other guy, a guy who is dating a close friend of mine.  This close friend has been great since my breakup with my ex, and has been a sort of therapist for me during the whole thing.  But now even she's stuck, and she normally knows just about everything.  So I don't even know if I even have the slightest chance with her.

Look, there will always be another guy to some extent.  Even if that guy is a girl's unrealistic fantasy about Brad Pitt, there is going to be another guy to some extent.  Here is your second guarantee, if you let the possibility that she has another guy she is crushing on prevent you from the chance that you might have with her then you WILL regret it.  Somewhere in the back of you mind, you'll always wonder what if. 

Very true. One of my deepest romantic regrets was not asking out someone who always seemed to have a boyfriend at the time. Even to the extent that, later on, she wondered why I didn't come at some point when she had asked me over to her apartment and I said, "Well, you were still living with Bob (her boyfriend). So, I didn't see anything but an awkward situation there." To which she replied, "We had broken up by then and he had moved out weeks before. I just hadn't told anyone because I didn't want to deal with all the 'sorry to hear about you and Bob' pity." (Which is an attitude I like about her, but it didn't help me then.) So, at the moment, I thought I was biding my time for a better opportunity, but I was really passing up my shot. The lesson is: except if she's in front of you making out with her boyfriend, the best time to drop a hint that you might be interested is now and the best time to take a hint that she might be interested is also now.

Having said that, one of the best things you can do for yourself is be single for a while. Get used to it. Don't become one of these people who is always either in a relationship or looking to jump into one. Learn to enjoy your own company and develop some independence. It won't happen on it's own and many people never spend enough time on their own to know who they are outside of who they are with. Ultimately, your best shot at a happy relationship comes when you are happy with yourself. And, as a bonus, the self-assurance you will gain by knowing your life is great whether or not you are dating someone will make you more attractive.

[BlueBard]

Okay, how did I get involved in this?   :blink:

Now, does Uncle Bluebard really, really have to explain that to you?

And I wouldn't listen to Reep's advice - he's obviously dilusional.

Delusional, certainly.  Disillusioned, apparently not.

Gremlin, I think I would also advise a cooling-off period... and cold showers if necessary.  I can say from experience that you can't force a relationship to develop.  Either it does, or it doesn't.  Focus on being the best person you can be, and it will happen naturally.

[Dweomer Knight]

Having said that, one of the best things you can do for yourself is be single for a while. Get used to it. Don't become one of these people who is always either in a relationship or looking to jump into one. Learn to enjoy your own company and develop some independence. It won't happen on it's own and many people never spend enough time on their own to know who they are outside of who they are with. Ultimately, your best shot at a happy relationship comes when you are happy with yourself. And, as a bonus, the self-assurance you will gain by knowing your life is great whether or not you are dating someone will make you more attractive.

Very well said.  I couldn't agree more.

DK

[konbiz]

You haven't been able to get her out of your head for two weeks? I would say wait for atleast another 2 to see if you feel the same way. I would still keep talking to her, don't change how you act around her, if she's going to like you she has to like you for you, not who you are pretending to be. Just compliment her and if you're in a play together, just be like "hey we should go out somewhere after the play together to celebrate finishing it". Slow and steady wins the race my friend. Also take time being single and enjoy, sometimes it is nice just to be alone for a while I find.

[thalaw2]

A buddy of mine told me about the 33% rule.  That says that you need to take a break for 33% of the time that you were in your last relationship...so you were involved for 15months.  Take that times 33% and that's how long you need to cool off.

[Gremlin]

I just finished having a nice long chat with my ex, and she really helped me understand some stuff.  I realized a lot of my frustration at her isn't really coming from the fact that she's gone, it's more coming from the fact that I'm starting to move on, and the times I catch myself not worrying about her and do I sort of psyche wrist-slapping and say I should refocus on her.  This means I'm closer to really getting over her, which makes me sad, but happy at the same time.  It's weird like that.

[Panther_Gunn]

So, let's see if I can sum that up.

Continuing to dwell on her = root of problem.  Heck, *we* could have told ya that one!   :P



Funnily enough, the song that was playing while I read this was Sam Kinison's cover of Wild Thing.  Oddly appropriate, I think.   :lol:

[Mr. Hamrick]

told you that listening to the Billy Joel album was a good thing. 

[Tortuga]

The relationship that requires a ton of work is usually not the right relationship.  Before I met Madam T (married almost 10 years now) relationships required a ton of negotiation.  With Madam T things just happen the way they're supposed to -- not that it's effortless, it just feels much more natural.

Oh and my #1 rule about relationships:
If you can't freely fart around the other person, your relationship needs adjustment.

[Sevenforce]

Oh and my #1 rule about relationships:
If you can't freely fart around the other person, your relationship needs adjustment.

I 100% agree with this :D

[udasu]

Open communication fosters the best relationships. Works with my missuz.

And the farting thing is truedat.

[Gremlin]

Figured I'd update on this, since it's taken some rather interesting turns.

So, my ex is currently doing some very stupid stuff...crazy love triangle thing that resulted from her inability to stay single.  She's in this whole depressed funk and is alienating her friends, myself included, so I'm pretty much tired of bothering with her.

The girl in question originally.  Oh, joy.  So, I start dropping some hints here and there that I like her.  Heck, one of the other girls in the cast asked me out, and I said no; when this girl (heck, let's use names: Shannon) asked what was up, I told her I wasn't interested in this other girl because I was "crazy about somebody else..."  There was other stuff, like me mentioning some Billy Joel songs, in particular This Night and Tell Her About It.  But she doesn't quite get it.  However, her sister does, and she's too young to have developed her filter yet.  So she starts making fun of me mercilessly.  Shannon isn't actually phased by it, but it gets to me.  I take her aside and say that yes, she's right, but she should just stay quiet.  The sister is very excited and says she won't say anything.

Yeah, right.

I find out later she was telling Shannon about her "theory" the night before.  Shannon seemed...not terrified by the idea.  Maybe amused.  I don't know.  So when my ride home says he's going to stop for coffee before heading out, the sister immediately says she and Shannon will join us.  Me, being me, offers to pay for their coffee.  Shannon says to her sister, "Well, this proves your theory."  Later I tell her that it isn't entirely untrue...

However!  That hasn't sunk in yet.  She thought I was kidding, or didn't hear me, or whatever.  So the next day, panicked that I let everything slip, I tell her I like her and ask her out for coffee again.  She gets really weirded out, tells me she doesn't like me, and avoids me for the rest of the week.  Needless to say, I'm saddened.  I mean, I don't mind not gaining a girlfriend, but now I'm terrified I lost one of my best friends.

So, the next week is rehearsal-free, and I feel pretty lame.  But on Friday, I suddenly started feeling better.  I think it was because I realized that even though she didn't feel anything like that back at me, I still felt amazing just thinking about her and the times we had together, and I can enjoy those memories.  Friday is, of course, the first new show, and so I walk in still feeling alright.  Then I see her alone in the green room and ask her if we're still ok, and she says yes, we're still friends.  Which made me feel even better.  She even gave me a hug. :)

So, Saturday rolls around, and I'm still feeling great we're back to normal.  Shannon and I sit next to each other at the restaurant afterwards and chat (it wasn't just us, there were a good twenty other people sitting at the table, including on of our mutual best friends).  It's pretty spiffy keen.  I'll get back to this in a sec.

Alright, Sunday.  Closing show and strike (take down the set) afterwards.  After notes, I see her in the green room and give her a hug...but something's weird.  When she hugs me back, she kind of grazes my hand, and that contact kind of follows after I let her go, and when she tells me to break a leg, she kind of looks away and smiles and says it kind of quietly.  I think I did something wrong and she might be awkward, so I back off a bit.  But she smiles at me when we walk past each other, and she's waiting offstage more frequently than usual.  So I'm starting to feel like something's up, and I really want it to be that, but I'm too scared to hope for it, so I try to forget it.

Show ends.  We're all packing up.  I take my poster on the wall (tradition in the troupe is to get your poster of the show signed by the cast.  It's pretty cool.) and get ready to give it to my mom, but then Shannon comes by and snatches it up.  So I think, ok, she's signing it.  No biggie.  Later I go through the green room and see it taped to the mirror.  There's her message saying what an...interesting show it's been and how she'll miss me.  But wait...she already signed it.  Why did she take it?  That's when I see the bottom: "PPS: I would've said yes if this wasn't goodbye."

Wow.

This is her last show with the troupe, I discover, because she's graduating this year and is going to a college that's a good hour and a half away.

Oh, it gets better.  We talk in private after the show, and she says that at the restaurant last night, she realized she kinda had feelings for me too, and wanted to tell me, but she really doesn't know what to do because if we start getting involved, it can only last for a few months.  And I told her that even if it does only last for a bit, it could still be amazing while it lasts.  So, long story short, we decide we're going to try something, even if it can't be permanent.

And of course, while all this was going on, every girl in the cast was thinking it was all absolutely adorable and much picture-taking commenced.  I was so energetic after this episode I was told to calm down by about three people.  It didn't work.

I've been on cloud nine since.  She is just an amazing girl...I can't believe this all worked out so well.  Things NEVER work out this well for me.  She says she likes that I can make her feel so happy, pretty and special.  It's pretty awesome.  I even get to see her on Friday, and we're sort of celebrating her birthday at an anime convention nearby.

And guess what, Hamrick?  She's a huge Billy Joel fan, too. :thumbup:

[Mr. Hamrick]

see, what'd I tell you.

Just don't go crashing your car into her living room.  heh heh.

[Figure Fan]

Billy Joel does rock, in a nutshell. That's what I tell people! :rolleyes:

[Mr. Hamrick]

In all seriousness, Billy Joel was one of the first artists I vividly remember listening to as a kid.  The album, well cassette tape, was "An Innocent Man" and it was a frequently played by my dad who use to be a big Billy Joel fan as well.  Now, the first tape I owned was Duran Duran's "Seven and The Ragged Tiger" but I somehow managed to get possession of that tape more than my dad did in the long run as time progressed.  One of my fondest memories of my cousin Scott prior to his death was an impromptu rendition of "The Longest Time" by me, him and his two brother one evening after his usual merciless teasing of us resulted in him taunting us with the beginning "Ohh Ohh Ohh Ohh" from the song with my responding "For the longest" in the closest thing to a bass as I have ever done.

(Only later did I learn that "An Innocent Man" was not Billy's first album.) 

Billy Joel is among the first musicians that come to mind when recommending "American music" and that album amongst some of the best relationship advice I've ever heard.  Along with some of his other songs.  (Anthony's Song, anyone?)