Thor?

[Shogunn2517]

I know he's been found to be one of the more trickier files around and I'm sure each of our versions vary, but I was wondering what are some of your ideas about Thor and particularly how should his (near) invulernability should be handled?  Personally, I'm a little mystified.  Now, from what I know the character is not a complete invulnerable character in the vein of a Superman, Hulk or Gladiator.  However, I also know that he can go toe-to-toe, shot-for-shot with such characters.  I've also heard stories of his skin being pierced by a simple gunshot as well.  Now for some like the Hulk, shooting him with a bullet is about as useful as throwing candy corn at him, but at the same time, Thor can take a punch from him, as good or probably better than most people ever had.

To this end, again, he's not completely invulnerable, but he is immortal and his endurance and stamina levels can be considered off the charts.  From this, I've calcuated to give my Thor Body Aura and Regeneration attributes.  Of course both of these affect his energy(which is a 6 or 7), so again, he does have an Invulnerable 50 or 75 like my true invulnerable characters, but at the same time, he's able to hang with them... probably not forever though...

Is that an accurate depiction of the character?  Is there something I'm missing or assuming wrongly?

I know this has been talked about before, but again, I'm sure you can understand the difficulty.

Thanks.

[Urthman]

Anyone who can survive one of the Hulk's tank-smashing fists ought to be completely unharmed by a bullet.  Bullets bounce right off a tank, but Hulk's fists go through tank armor like it was cardboard.

In a story, you can just ignore that inconsistency and have Thor take a punch from the Hulk and then start bleeding from a bullet wound, because that's just how the story goes.  But I have no idea how you simulate that kind of inconsistency in a game.

[stumpy]

Regarding the bullets vs. punches issue: SOLID SKELETON gives extra protection from crushing attacks, but not others (e.g. piercing).

[quiet]

of course if you asked 20 people on these boards a question about just about any hero file you will probably 20 different answers, so I'll add my $.02.  In a perfect world I would think that thor's resistances would be best simulated if he had temp control, strange vistor, armored and solid skeleton however you would have only one more attribute slot. So I would give him a lower invulnerability and solid skeleton with maybe temperature control.  I usually give superman a 20 invulnerability and solid skeleton so he can still be hurt by high powered energy attacks but won't get ko'd by a single punch of an enraged hulk. so by that standard I would give thor an invulnerabity 5 or 10 with the other resistance mentioned above so he could still hang with the supes, captain marvels and hulks of the world but would probably not go the distance.
on a side note and again this is my opinion, another way I give the "light heavyweights"(wonder woman, thing, thor, etc) as I like to call them a fighting chance is to up their offensive damage becuse characters like WW and thor are supposed to be trained warriors as opposed to farmboys with super strength.

[Shogunn2517]

See, that's another issue.  I'll get back to Thor in a sec, but characters with glaring material make-ups are portrayed to be invulnerable to certain attacks, but as far as the game goes, the are affected.  For instance take Colossus or Thing.  These are two characters you can accurate give a metal or stone make-up to respectively, but as far as the game goes if you hit them with enough bullets they'll eventually fall.  Now, according to comics, you can hit these guys with as many bullets as you want and the best affect you'll get is to make them angrier.

Note, I'm the type that would go for accuracy over gameplay(Superman's invulnerability would be greater than 20).  So to have those types as accurate as possible, would that make their material irrelevant?

[quiet]

 a very valid point that I believe has been discussed before.  The way I do this and I think others have done too, is to give a low invulnerability to these material type specific characters and then they will immune to the effects of normal person level punches and bullets.  also for a cool effect give invulnerable characters a passive defense that deflects piercing projectiles.  this way they keep their material make ups.

[DEATH]

     I think that this depends more on your approach than anything else.  For example, if you give the Thing a low invulnerability attribute and the Stone material type, he'll be exceedingly resistant to crushing and piercing attacks, but much less so to energy.  Instead you could give him a very high invulnerability attribute to cover all attacks equally, and make him Flesh material.  I think either approach can easily work, it just depends on what you're going for.
     Lots of stuff happens under various writers that defies logic.  Writers change their minds.  If it's convenient in terms of plot for Thor to take a punch from the Hulk this issue, then suffer a bullet wound next month, so be it.  If you try and base your hero files around every little one-off incident like that, you'll probably tie yourself in knots.  You just need to decide what you're going for and design all your characters comparably.  Decide what you think the character is like generally, then build from there.
     One other thing I would suggest: after you've built a few files, test them against each other in the rumble room.  Whether or not they play as expected (particularly against your other creations) is likely the best measure of how 'accurately' you've described them.

DEATH

[stumpy]

I agree. There is no reason not to use both INVULNERABILITY and a material choice or attributes that change resistances to get the effect you want.

Then again, I am someone who goes for playability/fun over accuracy. If I were able to really make an accurate Superman character the way I interpret my comics, then he wouldn't be much fun to play. Instead, I try to capture the flavor of the character and design him to work within the scale for which the game was intended. That way, I can still play the characters I like but they don't automatically wipe the floor with Time Master (or other baddies who are supposed to be the Big Bads within the game).

[Blitzgott]

I'd give Thor invulnerability. Him being harmed by a bullet seems bullcr*p to me, and must be yet just another case of a writer contradicting another that is so common.

[Ganymede Zero]

I gave thor physical resistance since all asgardians have naturally dense flesh.

[Shogunn2517]

     I think that this depends more on your approach than anything else.  For example, if you give the Thing a low invulnerability attribute and the Stone material type, he'll be exceedingly resistant to crushing and piercing attacks, but much less so to energy.  Instead you could give him a very high invulnerability attribute to cover all attacks equally, and make him Flesh material.  I think either approach can easily work, it just depends on what you're going for.
     Lots of stuff happens under various writers that defies logic.  Writers change their minds.  If it's convenient in terms of plot for Thor to take a punch from the Hulk this issue, then suffer a bullet wound next month, so be it.  If you try and base your hero files around every little one-off incident like that, you'll probably tie yourself in knots.  You just need to decide what you're going for and design all your characters comparably.  Decide what you think the character is like generally, then build from there.
     One other thing I would suggest: after you've built a few files, test them against each other in the rumble room.  Whether or not they play as expected (particularly against your other creations) is likely the best measure of how 'accurately' you've described them.

DEATH

Yeah, I actually do all that already.  I've built hundreds of files and test them all out constanty.   I know how they play and how they feel.  I'm just asking you about how you simulate these characters in game.