Master Minds

[MJB]

The first villain I created was Lou, I rolled him as a Master Mind. Soon after I hit the tutorial zone I decided that MM was over my head. I couldn't figure out how to use him. Moments later he was deleted and re-rolled as a Corruptor.

I had a friend of mine show me the ropes on MM's and I liked what I saw.

Today I re-re-rolled Lou as a Necro/Dark MM. Anyone have expierience with this AT? Pointers? Builds I should be looking at?

Here is the build I used for my practice toon over on Protector...

CLICKITY CLICK!

I've also been looking at this build...

Name: Dark Schneider3
Level: 50
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Necromancy
Secondary: Dark Miasma
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Zombie Horde==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Acc(3) Dmg(5) Dmg(5) Dmg(7)
01) --> Twilight Grasp==> Acc(1) Acc(7) Heal(9)
02) --> Dark Blast==> Acc(2)
04) --> Darkest Night==> EndRdx(4) TH_DeBuf(9) TH_DeBuf(11) TH_DeBuf(11)
06) --> Enchant Undead==> Rechg(6)
08) --> Tar Patch==> Slow(8) Rechg(17) Rechg(19)
10) --> Hover==> DefBuf(10)
12) --> Grave Knight==> Acc(12) Acc(13) Dmg(13) Dmg(15) Dmg(15) KB_Dist(17)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14)
16) --> Shadow Fall==> EndRdx(16) DmgRes(36) DmgRes(37) DmgRes(37)
18) --> Soul Extraction==> Acc(18) Acc(19) Rechg(25) Rechg(25) Rechg(31)
20) --> Fearsome Stare==> Acc(20) Acc(21) Fear(21) Fear(23) Rechg(23) Rechg(37)
22) --> Swift==> Run(22)
24) --> Health==> Heal(24)
26) --> Lich==> Acc(26) Dmg(27) Dmg(27) Dmg(29) Hold(29) Hold(31)
28) --> Petrifying Gaze==> Acc(28) Acc(34) Hold(34) Hold(34) Hold(36) Rechg(36)
30) --> Stamina==> EndMod(30) EndMod(31) EndMod(33)
32) --> Dark Empowerment==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
35) --> Howling Twilight==> Rechg(35) Rechg(40)
38) --> Black Hole==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Intang(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
01) --> Supremacy==> Empty(1)
---------------------------------------------

I would substitute the Flight PP for Speed probably. Taking out Hover and replacing it with Hasten and of course replacing Fly with Super Speed.

-MJB

[Uncle Yuan]

I can't speak to the build, but I have a L20 robots/traps that is a real blast to play.  I've been thinking strongly about a Necro/Dark myself, but I have too many alts as-is.  Maybe some day.

I do recommend the following link: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7148957&an=0&page=0#Post7148957 

Some might consider the degree of control with this over kill, but it does allow for great pet controll.  I might also suggest working in Leadership.  I believe MMs get better than average bonuses, but they're nice to have with your "team" in any case.  Also, I don't know about this build, but MMs in general are a pretty END easy AT once you get your pets summoned and buffed.  With some judicious use of end red enhancements it maight be very do-able to skip Fittness to fit in Leadership.  (Not to say Stamina et al aren't usefull, but they're less critical for a MM than just about any other AT.)

[Verfall]

Necro is probably the hardest set to play, especially with /dark since 5 of your 6 henchmen are prone to melee, and your heal is off your person. They also get no self heal till the 32 upgrade when they get a life steal attack.

One thing though, never ever take the attacks in the primary pool unless you absolutely have too. They're practically useless and take up power slots that can be better used for debuffs and such from the secondary, or things like the leadership pool.

Frankly, I think Lou would be better off as a Thugs/Dark. Never pictured him as an undead summoner, but gang leader, yes.

[GhostMachine]

Masterminds do not need many attacks, as their henchmen are more than enough to do the job and you're pretty much dead meat if they get defeated, anyway. I have a Bots/Dark MM and a Mercs/Traps MM, and they each only have one attack from their Primary. (I haven't run the Bots/Dark in a while, but I think he has Air Superiority from the Flight pool, as well)

Like Verfall said, Necro/Dark isn't a good mix due to the henchmen being melee. You're pretty much going to be forced to either resummon your henchmen a lot or stay closer to them than is probably safe or feasible.

With Dark, you can pretty much skip taking Fitness if you slot the powers properly. I decided to go ahead and take Fitness on both my MMs, but from my experiences with Dark Miasma before I got Stamina, you can probably skip Fitness if you toss 2 endurance reduction slots in Shadow Fall if you have it.

Regarding the Dark Miasma parts of the build you posted, I have two recommendations:

1. 35 is way too late to take Howling Twilight if you plan on grouping any. I wouldn't pick it up any later than 16, personally.

2. Skip Black Hole. Take Dark Servant instead; its a LOT more useful.

Keep in mind my Bots\Dark is only lvl 22 or so, but I recommend skipping Black Hole because I've been told by several people that its pretty irritating and not quite as useful as you might think.

I do suggest taking a look at Thugs.

[Tortuga]

I've heard that Thugs/Dark is quite the combo.  I think it suits Lou as well.

[Alaric]

I never take any attacks for MMs (except my now-deleted Thugs MM, just because of the dual pistol animations...). MMs are much more effective sending their pets in while buffing/debuffing.

At lower levels, Teleport Foe can be a very useful power for a MM. Just keep your pets on Agressive and summon a minion into the middle of them... At higher levels, you usually don't need to do this.

I'd say MMs are one of the best ATs for soloing in the game. Teaming can be annoying at higher levels, though... I've had the rest of my team finish a mission while I was still powering up my minions...

[MJB]

Thugs/Dark eh? I'll definitely look into it. :)

-MJB

[MJB]

Earlier I attempted to put together a build for Lou as a Thug/Dark MM but my version of Hero Builder doesn't have Thugs in it. Also when I attempt to auto update I get an error. I visited the site that the program was using to update and it's full of ads for some other website.

Can anyone help me get an updated copy of Hero Builder?

-MJB

[Stopman]

Earlier I attempted to put together a build for Lou as a Thug/Dark MM but my version of Hero Builder doesn't have Thugs in it. Also when I attempt to auto update I get an error. I visited the site that the program was using to update and it's full of ads for some other website.

Can anyone help me get an updated copy of Hero Builder?

-MJB

Latest version is here. In the configuration, set it up for auto-download of updates and you're golden.

[MJB]

Nope that didn't work either. Same error as before.

Failed to read the config file at: http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/public_ftp/Updates.xml

-MJB

[Stopman]

Try these options under:
Setup
  Configuration



I'm able to download new updates. Perhaps let your firewall allow that Update URL?

[Xenolith]

I have a Thugs/Traps MM and I can play this character 1 difficulty level higher than I do my other characters.  I solo, so its pretty cool to be able to do that.

[Raptor]

I figured out your problem MJB.  When you installed Hero Builder, you downloaded the Builder Zip package instead of the Builder Setup Package.  I did the same thing and got the same error you were talking about.  Use the Builder Setup Package and reinstall the Hero Builder with that.  The updates work then.

[MJB]

Thanks for the help guys. That pic of your settings fixed my problem. :)

Here is a build I threw together based on the Necro/Dark MM build. The slotting hasn't been done because I'm not that experienced at it yet. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Lou
Level: 50
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Thugs
Secondary: Dark Miasma
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Call Thugs==> Empty(1)
01) --> Twilight Grasp==> Empty(1)
02) --> Tar Patch==> Empty(2)
04) --> Darkest Night==> Empty(4)
06) --> Equip Thugs==> Empty(6)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> Empty(8)
10) --> Swift==> Empty(10)
12) --> Call Enforcer==> Empty(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Empty(14)
16) --> Shadow Fall==> Empty(16)
18) --> Gang War==> Empty(18)
20) --> Health==> Empty(20)
22) --> Stamina==> Empty(22)
24) --> Maneuvers==> Empty(24)
26) --> Call Bruiser==> Empty(26)
28) --> Tactics==> Empty(28)
30) --> Assault==> Empty(30)
32) --> Upgrade Equipment==> Empty(32)
35) --> Petrifying Gaze==> Empty(35)
38) --> Dark Servant==> Empty(38)
41) --> Dark Embrace==> Empty(41)
44) --> Black Hole==> Empty(44)
47) --> Soul Tentacles==> Empty(47)
49) --> Soul Storm==> Empty(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Supremacy==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

-MJB

[GhostMachine]

That's a fairly decent build. However, if I was going to use it, I'd take Dual Wield, because double pistols looks cool and I prefer to have at least one attack on my MMs, and I advise against taking Black Hole. If you do take it, you'd best leave it off your power tray when grouping. I'm probably going to take Mu Mastery or Mace Mastery on my Bots\Dark, but haven't decided which pool to take on my Mercs\Traps, and he's higher level!

Get Howling Twilight instead of Swift. You won't really need Swift if you're not taking any of the other powers from that pool, and Howling Twilight is a key power for the Dark set that you will definitely want when you group for things like Strike Forces, Trials, etc. And there are times when you will want to group even at lower levels. I think I have HT slotted with a recharge and a disorient.

From my observation, you don't really need both Tactics and Assault, but if there's nothing else that interests you in place of one of the powers, go for it. (I'd just take Maneuvers and Tactics on a Thugs MM)

Only slotting advice I'm going to give:

Super Jump - 2 Jump - despite what some people say, I can tell a difference between it on my AR\Energy Blaster that has it 1-slotted and my Mercs\Traps MM who has it 2-slotted.
Equip Thugs - 1 recharge, 1 end reduction - 2 end once you get Upgrade, if you can afford the slot
Upgrade Equipment - 1 recharge, 2 end reduction
Stamina - 3 slot it

[Alaric]

That's a fairly decent build. However, if I was going to use it, I'd take Dual Wield, because double pistols looks cool and I prefer to have at least one attack on my MMs, and I advise against taking Black Hole. If you do take it, you'd best leave it off your power tray when grouping. I'm probably going to take Mu Mastery or Mace Mastery on my Bots\Dark, but haven't decided which pool to take on my Mercs\Traps, and he's higher level!

Get Howling Twilight instead of Swift. You won't really need Swift if you're not taking any of the other powers from that pool, and Howling Twilight is a key power for the Dark set that you will definitely want when you group for things like Strike Forces, Trials, etc. And there are times when you will want to group even at lower levels. I think I have HT slotted with a recharge and a disorient.

From my observation, you don't really need both Tactics and Assault, but if there's nothing else that interests you in place of one of the powers, go for it. (I'd just take Maneuvers and Tactics on a Thugs MM)

Only slotting advice I'm going to give:

Super Jump - 2 Jump - despite what some people say, I can tell a difference between it on my AR\Energy Blaster that has it 1-slotted and my Mercs\Traps MM who has it 2-slotted.
Equip Thugs - 1 recharge, 1 end reduction - 2 end once you get Upgrade, if you can afford the slot
Upgrade Equipment - 1 recharge, 2 end reduction
Stamina - 3 slot it

Actually, on an attackless MM, you don't really need Stamina at all (and I'm not just saying that because of my usual insanity...). I agree that there's no reason to double-slot SJ- it's the only travel power that works just fine without any additional slotting. If you really want to improve it, you could always take Hurdle, as well- it does affect SJ...

[Midnight]

Once you've summoned all your pets, you can basically become a buff/debuff node without having to worry about running out of end. My MM has Maneuvers and Tactics, occasionally pops Aid Other and hardly ever runs out of end.

[MJB]

Thanks for the advice guys. Here is attempt number two...

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Lou
Level: 50
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Thugs
Secondary: Dark Miasma
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Call Thugs==> Empty(1)
01) --> Twilight Grasp==> Empty(1)
02) --> Tar Patch==> Empty(2)
04) --> Darkest Night==> Empty(4)
06) --> Equip Thugs==> Empty(6)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> Empty(8)
10) --> Howling Twilight==> Empty(10)
12) --> Call Enforcer==> Empty(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Empty(14)
16) --> Shadow Fall==> Empty(16)
18) --> Gang War==> Empty(18)
20) --> Aid Other==> Empty(20)
22) --> Dual Wield==> Empty(22)
24) --> Maneuvers==> Empty(24)
26) --> Call Bruiser==> Empty(26)
28) --> Tactics==> Empty(28)
30) --> Empty Clips==> Empty(30)
32) --> Upgrade Equipment==> Empty(32)
35) --> Petrifying Gaze==> Empty(35)
38) --> Dark Servant==> Empty(38)
41) --> Dark Embrace==> Empty(41)
44) --> Fearsome Stare==> Empty(44)
47) --> Soul Tentacles==> Empty(47)
49) --> Soul Storm==> Empty(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Supremacy==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

I opted to take "Fearsome Stare" instead of "Black Hole". All in all having people quake with fear at the sight of Lou would make him quite happy. I'm all about making Lou happy.

Opinions? Suggestions on improvement? I would like to re-roll him soon to take advantage of the  upcoming freespec.

-MJB

[MJB]

Sorry for the double post guys but I finished the slotting and wanted some input.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Lou
Level: 50
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Thugs
Secondary: Dark Miasma
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Call Thugs==> Acc(1)  Dmg(3)  Dmg(7)  Dmg(9)
01) --> Twilight Grasp==> Acc(1)  Acc(3)  Heal(7)  Heal(9)  Heal(34)  Rechg(34)
02) --> Tar Patch==> Rechg(2)  Rechg(33)  Rechg(33)  Slow(34)  Slow(36)  Slow(37)
04) --> Darkest Night==> TH_DeBuf(4)  TH_DeBuf(5)  TH_DeBuf(5)
06) --> Equip Thugs==> EndRdx(6)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(8)
10) --> Howling Twilight==> Rechg(10)  Rechg(11)  Rechg(11)  DisDur(15)  Slow(33)
12) --> Call Enforcer==> Dmg(12)  Dmg(13)  Dmg(13)  TH_Buf(15)  TH_Buf(31)  TH_Buf(36)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Shadow Fall==> DefBuf(16)  DmgRes(17)  DmgRes(17)
18) --> Gang War==> Rechg(18)  Rechg(19)  Rechg(19)  Acc(37)  Acc(37)
20) --> Fearsome Stare==> Acc(20)  Fear(21)  Fear(21)  Rechg(39)  Rechg(43)  Rechg(46)
22) --> Dual Wield==> Acc(22)  Acc(23)  KB_Dist(23)  KB_Dist(40)
24) --> Maneuvers==> EndRdx(24)  EndRdx(25)  DefBuf(25)  DefBuf(40)  DefBuf(42)
26) --> Call Bruiser==> Dmg(26)  Dmg(27)  Dmg(27)
28) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(28)  EndRdx(29)  TH_Buf(29)  TH_Buf(43)  TH_Buf(43)
30) --> Empty Clips==> Acc(30)  EndRdx(31)  KB_Dist(31)
32) --> Upgrade Equipment==> Rechg(32)
35) --> Petrifying Gaze==> Hold(35)  EndRdx(36)
38) --> Dark Servant==> Rechg(38)  Rechg(39)  Rechg(39)  TH_DeBuf(40)  TH_DeBuf(42)  TH_DeBuf(42)
41) --> Night Fall==> Acc(41)
44) --> Soul Tentacles==> Acc(44)  Dmg(45)  Dmg(45)  Dmg(45)  Immob(46)  Immob(46)
47) --> Soul Storm==> Acc(47)  Dmg(48)  Dmg(48)  Dmg(48)  Hold(50)  Hold(50)
49) --> Aid Other==> Heal(49)  Heal(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Dmg(1)
01) --> Supremacy==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

I also moved around the powers to maximize my slotting. I was taking some too late and others too early.

-MJB

[Alaric]

Personally, I'd six-slot all the pet-summoning powers. As a MM, your pets are your primary offense and defense.

[Verfall]

On a dark MM you need stamina. It's the second most active secondary next to poison, and I find on my bots/dark that I run out of end even with stamina. The leadership powers, shadow fall and eventually your patron shield all put a drain on your end that without stamina means you're going to run dry very fast. Nevermind the fact that upgrading your henchmen can take eons if you don't have stamina.

For traps or FF it's not required, but for the other 3 I'd really reccommend it.

[MJB]

Ugg. I'm in a bit over my head here. I'll try and fix the slotting and throw in Hurdle and Stamina. I'll decide what to ax while I'm re-doing everything.

-MJB

[Raptor]

Also, if you can spare the slots, your pet upgrade powers should have a recharge and at least 1 (preferrably 2) EndRedux.  That will take a lot of pain out of the summoning process.

[GhostMachine]

On a dark MM you need stamina. It's the second most active secondary next to poison, and I find on my bots/dark that I run out of end even with stamina. The leadership powers, shadow fall and eventually your patron shield all put a drain on your end that without stamina means you're going to run dry very fast. Nevermind the fact that upgrading your henchmen can take eons if you don't have stamina.

For traps or FF it's not required, but for the other 3 I'd really reccommend it.

Yep. Even at 22, my Bots\Dark needs stamina, if I want to keep Shadow Fall and whichever leadership pool power I have on him (haven't run him in a while, but I think he has assault) running. Stamina also comes in handy for getting up and running with your henchmen and the upgrade powers. I have stamina on both my MMs, and I couldn't imagine running my Mercs\Traps without it and summoning and arming all my henchmen, because I'd either have to stand around for a couple minutes or pop a blue or two after getting set up, since I also run a Leadership power and the Force Field Generator (which fortunately is a summon and not a toggle) on him. For what its worth, both my MMs have at least one attack each (my Bots\Dark has two - I took Air Superiority instead of Hover), but I didn't factor the attacks into this, as I rarely use them.

[Verfall]

This is basically my bots/dark MM's build, except I included manuevers since it stacks very nicely with the enforcers version. In the 40's I find you run out of spots to put slots. I ended up putting them everywhere just to get them out of the way. I also included hasten since it makes upgrading a bit faster. I left out all but the shield from the patron powers, since they're basically higher end using lower duration versions of powers you already have. This works extremely well for my MM, and thugs are considered the aoe kings, so you should do even better.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Thugs
Secondary: Dark Miasma
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Call Thugs==> Acc(1)  Acc(3)  Acc(3)  Dmg(11)  Dmg(11)  Dmg(43)
01) --> Twilight Grasp==> Heal(1)  Heal(9)  Heal(9)  Acc(17)  Acc(17)  Rechg(36)
02) --> Tar Patch==> Rechg(2)  Rechg(5)  Rechg(5)
04) --> Darkest Night==> TH_DeBuf(4)  TH_DeBuf(7)  TH_DeBuf(7)  EndRdx(25)
06) --> Equip Thugs==> Rechg(6)
08) --> Swift==> Run(8)
10) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(10)
12) --> Call Enforcer==> Acc(12)  Dmg(13)  Dmg(13)  DefBuf(15)  DefBuf(15)  DefBuf(31)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)
18) --> Gang War==> Rechg(18)  Rechg(19)  Rechg(19)  Acc(48)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)  EndMod(21)  EndMod(21)
22) --> Shadow Fall==> DmgRes(22)  DmgRes(23)  DmgRes(23)  EndRdx(25)  EndRdx(40)
24) --> Maneuvers==> EndRdx(24)  EndRdx(33)  DefBuf(45)  DefBuf(46)  DefBuf(46)
26) --> Call Bruiser==> Acc(26)  Dmg(27)  Acc(27)  Dmg(29)  Acc(31)  Dmg(43)
28) --> Fearsome Stare==> Acc(28)  Acc(29)  Fear(34)  Rechg(37)  Rechg(46)  Rechg(50)
30) --> Tactics==> TH_Buf(30)  TH_Buf(31)  TH_Buf(34)  EndRdx(34)  EndRdx(37)
32) --> Upgrade Equipment==> Rechg(32)  Rechg(33)  Rechg(33)  EndRdx(37)
35) --> Howling Twilight==> Rechg(35)  Rechg(36)  Rechg(36)
38) --> Dark Servant==> Acc(38)  Acc(39)  Hold(39)  Rechg(39)  Rechg(40)  Rechg(40)
41) --> Dark Embrace==> DmgRes(41)  DmgRes(42)  DmgRes(42)  EndRdx(42)  EndRdx(43)
44) --> Assault==> EndRdx(44)  EndRdx(45)  EndRdx(45)
47) --> Hasten==> Rechg(47)  Rechg(48)  Rechg(48)
49) --> Petrifying Gaze==> Acc(49)  Hold(50)  Acc(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Supremacy==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

[MJB]

Thank you Ver you are a life saver. I was just getting ready to open Hero Builder and try to figure that mess out. LOL!

-MJB