Lets See What You Skoped!

[deanjo2000]

Looks very good hopefully it can get released im not sure what his response is to nifskope but i dont think he has been seen for a very long time :huh:

[cripp12]

nice going GogglesPizanno. A must have.

[The Hitman]

Texas Jack gave the OK back when people just used Hex Editors, so his permission for NifSkope has been kinda "grandfathered" in. Great job, by the way!

[the_ultimate_evil]

any one any tips on an idea, i want to use the wraith kf's from FFvsTTr and skope them onto tommys wizard meshs, or vice versa

[The Hitman]

Hey, I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a little something- just to make sure I did this right. All I need is for someone to take a male_basic - derived mesh, and edit these BipNodes:

- Bip01Pelvis Scale to 0.60
- Bip01 Head Scale to 1.35, Translation X to 1.7000
- Bip01 L Toe0 Scale to 1.40
- Bip01 R Toe0 Scale to 1.40
- Bip01 L Hand Scale to 1.10
- Bip01 R Hand Scale to 1.10

If this is right, it may be a standard for changing Adult- Sized meshes into Kid- Sized meshes. If someone could do this, and let me know if it worked out OK, that would be awesome!

[Jakew]

That Colonial Marine mesh is great  :thumbup:

Is the website for all these Skopes still in the works? There is a such a huge amount of cool stuff on this thread.

[The Hitman]

Yeah, website's still in the works...

[Jakew]

Not sure how hard this would be, but can someone skope a mesh with hair like the guy in the purple/black costume? : http://ryanottley.com/archives/65

[cmdrkoenig67]

Texas Jack gave the OK back when people just used Hex Editors, so his permission for NifSkope has been kinda "grandfathered" in. Great job, by the way!

Hexing and Skoping are very different applications of mesh editing/altering...If Texas Jack didn't give permission in person for people to Skope his work (and his name hasn't been added to the Permissions list), you'd best not Skope and release anything he's done.

Dana

[cripp12]

I would think that since he gave permission to alter his meshes by hexing and changing his original creation that he would grant permission to use pieces of his meshes and not alter. But that's me.

Texas Jack gave the OK back when people just used Hex Editors, so his permission for NifSkope has been kinda "grandfathered" in. Great job, by the way!

Hexing and Skoping are very different applications of mesh editing/altering...If Texas Jack didn't give permission in person for people to Skope his work (and his name hasn't been added to the Permissions list), you'd best not Skope and release anything he's done.

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

I would think that since he gave permission to alter his meshes by hexing and changing his original creation that he would grant permission to use pieces of his meshes and not alter. But that's me.

Texas Jack gave the OK back when people just used Hex Editors, so his permission for NifSkope has been kinda "grandfathered" in. Great job, by the way!

Hexing and Skoping are very different applications of mesh editing/altering...If Texas Jack didn't give permission in person for people to Skope his work (and his name hasn't been added to the Permissions list), you'd best not Skope and release anything he's done.

Dana

that's a HUGE leap buddy. hexing only allowed for renaming elements, activating existing geometry and deactivating and low end sculpting.

skoping essentially allows someone to steal parts from one mesh and put them on another. and do everything hexing allows for aswell.

meshers have left the community and stopped releasing their max files due to other meshers just using the parts on released max files and tacking them onto another body and calling that a new mesh. skoping is the meshing equivalent of kitbashing at this point.

I agree with IPS...I feel it's only o.k. to Skope and release somebody else's mesh/mesh parts with their permission to do so (that's why we have a "Permissions List") AND Making sure to give credit for the source(s) for all parts and the mesh itself...Anything else is highly unethical (and there might be huge consequences in doing so). 

TJ has not given (to my knowledge) permission to skope his meshes/mesh parts and release them.  Just because it's alright with a mesher to hex their meshes, that does not instantly translate to "Skope and release anything I've done".  We all know what happens when people assume things.

Best.

Dana

[The Hitman]

Hmmm...

I know nobody here like my input when it comes to anything, but I found this in the NifSkope Permissions thread:

Hello Texas,

I was wondering,  since you have released alot of your MAX files, does that mean you have given meshers permission to use them(without having to ask for permission)?  The reason I am asking this is I am planning on getting ahold of Shevek to see if he is willing to add your Warblade ponytail to his Deadpool mesh.  I am sending this pm out first to get permission to use your hairstyle.

Thanks in advanced

Zivon23

Awesome meshes by the way. keep up the great work.  I have in the past tried to mesh.....so I know how frustrating it gets.

Howdy 

Yeah, you dont need any permission from me, although it would be nice if the mesher just kinda mentions where the mesh came from in the read me, other than that, you've got free reign, good luck with it 

-TJ

The way I interepret this, since he released his MAX files, and gave the OK to do exactly the same thing NifSkope was made to do, I think it's OK. He allowed customization to his meshes, well beyond the limitations of a standard Hex Editor. In this case, it's just the process of taking a different means to achieve the same end.

But that's just my opinion. Everyone can tell me I'm wrong now.

[cripp12]

That's the way i read it.  Just give Acknowledgement.

[Peerless1]

vxFVCHUpdated (today)
Okay, so I know I showed this before, but I forgot a few very important things (Super Lois in a mini-skirt pre-2004?  Not likely...)
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Well, that's it for that 1.  No more skirts for awhile I think.  Gawd, they're hard to align from fb to vx...
Will be available tonight pending upload issues...at Peerless1_Skopes2.

And Hitman...I will copy the formula and check out the child sized end product for you.

[Peerless1]

you never make an assumption in the favour of taking someone's rights away.

Speaking for myself, I do this not to say "Hey, your meshes aren't good enough for me."  Rather a respectful "Wow!  I love what you did, but I'd really like that jetpack (et al) on a female mesh."  And you know, I hate asking for special stuff all the time, especially with the fact that I've spent years using this communitie's work without a single contribution until this came along.

As someone well aware that I could not do this without nifSkope, and actually having called my own skopes kitbashes myself...I know I may sometimes tread the line.  So I have to agree with IPS entirely on this; and should I release something I shouldn't, I would hope the community would let me know so that I can remove it (which happens much faster than adding it to my group).

[GogglesPizanno]

so... in our community we adopted a policy a long time ago... when you don't know, ask. if you can't get ahold of them... assume you do not have permission. you never make an assumption in the favour of taking someone's rights away.

This is why I wasn't going to release anything without either approval from TJ or the agreed opinion of the board that permission was implied. The fact that this discussion is so "active" clearly indicates that its still a grey area, and i totally respect that.

So in lieu of that, does anyone know of any meshes that have existing rifle pieces and animations that the creator has approved skoping on. Im not skilled enough to try and remap animations etc... Ive been playing around with male_basic_rifle and it sorta works, but has some weird warping of certain pieces due to how the pieces are linked. The only other one I can think of off the top of my head is the Cable mesh by Grenadier.

[Peerless1]

Hey, I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a little something- just to make sure I did this right. All I need is for someone to take a male_basic - derived mesh, and edit these BipNodes:

- Bip01Pelvis Scale to 0.60
- Bip01 Head Scale to 1.35, Translation X to 1.7000
- Bip01 L Toe0 Scale to 1.40
- Bip01 R Toe0 Scale to 1.40
- Bip01 L Hand Scale to 1.10
- Bip01 R Hand Scale to 1.10

If this is right, it may be a standard for changing Adult- Sized meshes into Kid- Sized meshes. If someone could do this, and let me know if it worked out OK, that would be awesome!

This is how it looks:

[the_ultimate_evil]

grenadier specifically stopped releasing his max files because people with max were simply taking his parts and adding them to their own meshes and calling it a finished mesh. his final word on the topic was something like go crazy with what is released (max file-wise) but he wouldn't be releasing any more max files as a result.

but i would not use grenadier's work for this without his express permission. i don't think he would appreciate all of his meshes essentially turned into source geometry for new meshes. if he didn't let it happen with max he likely won't like it for nifskoping. definately try to contact him before releasing skopes with his work.

agreed this is is exactly my way of thinking, i have a WIP joker skope based on grens male_suitV2 mesh but as he never released the max i dont know if i can release it, and havnt been able to contact him

[Peerless1]

So...with all that's been said, there will be has been some shrinkage soon at my groups.  I guess I let the brain shut down for awhile in the rush of it all.  So, as Gren's email is even defunct, I have sent a query to both him and TJ via FR.  Which means we very well might have to assume no forever in the first case.  Well, off to shrink my groups, and copy the permissions list so I can re-read it thoroughly.  Requests in the future will now be harder as I base a lot of my ideas around pieces from meshes that are now unavailable (as I have lost many for which there are permissions due to PC failure).

Well, see you around the Forums.

[cripp12]

Whay to go IPS!
I would recommend this thread be locked since now all the skopes are just teases.

[the_ultimate_evil]

dood come on no need for that crap

[cripp12]

"if you make something you want to share... then share it. you did some really good work. you shouldn't let obstacles (real or imagined) get in your way. as long as you give proper credit/show proper respect for other's work, there will almost never be an issue."

I guess I am a little confused in your statement.  On page one you said the above about giving credit.  I was just following you.   :(

P.S.  if the skins are not released it would be sad but it is not like I have to have them.  In the beginning I had to have them but that was a long time ago.  Can you believe i have only played one mod since I bought this game.

[Peerless1]

peerless: unfortunately you have a setback in your plan. it doesn't mean you have nothing to work with. it means you have an obstacle. how about focusing your energy on work you have permission for. there is  still lots to work with. Revenant's work is example of this.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say I would stop altogether.  I was just bummed when I realized how thoughtless I'd been randomly releasing things, and that yes, it will now be more difficult.  Not impossible, but difficult as in "I have to re-think my whole method."  Actually, that will be good for me, and eventually (I hope) for any1 with a request.  :cool:

The "downside:"  Although I am still happy to do what I can, I only wanted to let people know that it will now be more likely to take longer as I have to download (on dialup) and thumb through a whole gaggle of meshes which I am no longer familiar with due to their long term status as PC crash victims.   :moribundisign :dmbbeer

The upsides:
                For me:  I will learn more, and have a great deal of fun and frustration doing it.  Not to mention,
                I will acquire many new and wonderful toys.  ;)  ^_^
                For the community (I hope it's a +):  I am not stopping altogether anytime soon.  I owe too many of you too much, and can
                only "pay it forward" by helping in my mesh kit bashing way!  :P

:ff: may be a dead game to the original developers, but obviously not to this group of fans.  I for 1 do not intend to disappoint if it is in my power.  :kommandorox (Every headbanger should have a [plastic] Komando sword!)

Also regarding "since all skopes are just teases now" (sorry if that's a slight misquote):
Not true.  Honestly, if I can do this any1 can.  It just takes time to familiarize yourself with the program and proper nodes to *err* cut and paste.  And I still have to work like an SOB to figure it out most times.  It is rare that something just falls into place with this.
Also, I get some of my best ideas for how to approach a project from the images and pointers of others who post here.  Then I just have to invest the time to figure out how to do something similar for my own use if I want 1.  So,
:paplease don't lock this thread!

[Peerless1]

Ok 1 last post here today --on the original topic of seeing what you skoped.

GP:  Your first attempt?  I'm jealous.  That seriously kicks *expletive deleted*!!!!!!!!!!!

Zivon:  Nice on the Iceman. The Doomsday bits were an excellent choice.  I am unfamiliar with which incarnation you were going for, so I am in the "not really sold on the hair pieces" group.  Don't get me wrong.  They look great, but I just don't see Iceman that way.  All in all a very creative and spiffy rendition.  Your avatar on the other hand  :whoami-sign: can I say?  The costume design is reminiscent of the one from your Darkseid male basic hex, and yet unbelievably better.  The hair is super, and another new look.  Man, you change hairstyles more than my last 3 girlfriends combined!  :lol:

Keep it up.  Always enjoy your work.

[doctorchallenger]

A couple of things I've been working on:

Billy Batson as "Major" Marvel, Master of magic:





Base: Capt Marvel by Renegade, hair by Vertex, Hood and all other accessories by tommyboy.

Mighty Mightor



Base: Male Muscular Hammer by Beyonder, Horns and cowl by tommyboy, trunks by fusion, cape by fidelo, bat by Texas Jack.  WIP: I'm looking to replace the bat with somethng more club-like. any suggestions? (Note: Permissions pending)

the Steak





Base: vxJohnny Quick I by Vertex, vxSuperman (v.1) by Vertex, helmet and boots by tommyboy, cap by Texas Jack. Note: Permissions pending.

[The Hitman]

Hey, I'm a big enough of a guy to admit when I'm wrong. I was. Not going to argue you're logic. I'm wrong, and I'm sorry. Hey, all I was stating were my half- thought out opinion, and I wasn't even arguing for any of my work. I guess next time I think I have something of note to post, I just won't. Sorry again for upsetting so many of you.

On a happier note-

Peerless! Thanks buddy! What's your (and everyone else's, for that matter) opinion... should I bump up the "Bip01 Pelvis" node to, say perhaps, .70- ish, or leave it the way it is?

[Zivon23]

Zivon:  Nice on the Iceman. The Doomsday bits were an excellent choice.  I am unfamiliar with which incarnation you were going for, so I am in the "not really sold on the hair pieces" group.  Don't get me wrong.  They look great, but I just don't see Iceman that way.  All in all a very creative and spiffy rendition.

Ummm.....I was heavily medicated at the time of that skope and it seemed like the thing to do ^_^  I guess I was going for a alternate to the spikey look.  However, at the end of the day.....who knows?

Your avatar on the other hand  :whoami-sign: can I say?  The costume design is reminiscent of the one from your Darkseid male basic hex, and yet unbelievably better.  The hair is super, and another new look.  Man, you change hairstyles more than my last 3 girlfriends combined!  :lol:

Keep it up.  Always enjoy your work.

Man that is a memory I would soon forget.  My male_basic_Darkseid hex.  I look at that thing and thinks......"Wow, that sucks!"  By today's standards it is both a horrible hex and even worse skin.  Exceptionally creative at the time though(so I've been told).  It was supposed to be my avitar mesh back then....I would have prefered something with really long hair but no mesher would make one for me back then so I had to settle with several different hexes for my AV.  today is different though.....Now I can skope a more appropriate hair style.  The newest avitar is what he loks like with short hair.  The Avitar under my name is ok for my long haired version(it is a hexed{not skoped}version of VXArchangel), but it is still lacking the right hair. The original concept had hair down to his knees.  Eventually I will find/hex/skope/make a correct version as he was originally designed.  Dang you Peerless!!!!!

You got me monologueing! hahaha

Z

[Boalt92]

Sorry again for upsetting so many of you.

Can everybody take a step back from this for one minute?

Artists:  NON artists will never get the possessiveness with which artists treat their work.  It's not because they don't care.  It's not because they're unethical or disrespectful.  It's because they're not artists.  They've never dealt with the issue from your perspective, never felt the sense of commitment and accomplishment that goes into your work, and they don't understand the legalities involved.  They (meaning: WE) just don't get it.  Couple that with the fact that there has always been confusion about how to use work distributed freely online, and you have eager, well intentioned, people who make honest mistakes.  The tone of this (kitbashing) debate often implies that such mistakes are intentional ethical/legal violations that consciously disregard community standards.

Non Artists: It's not too difficult to respect somebody's wishes....whether you agree with them or not.  Legally, the artists have every right to control the use and distribution of their work...regardless of how you aquired it.  The artist doesn't even have to own the original copyright.  There's really no wiggle room.  If you can't track them down, or feel awkward asking permission, jut move on to the next mesh.  We all want to contribute back to the community, so let's just make sure we do it in a way that community agrees is appropriate.  If somebody says something, don't take it personally, just understand that these are their babies and leave it at that.  GP did it right: He posted.  He asked.  He listened.  It's not too hard.

As far as the thread goes: PLEASE don't lock it!  I love seeing people's ideas, even if it never gets released and even though I have no intention of downloading it.  I have not read every post in this thread, but I don't recall reading anything that says you can't post photos (?), so, by all means, keep it up.

B92

PS--
Feel free correct me if I've misunderstood anything about this debate.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I just want to see the work of others be respected, those that did the work be credited and if some Meshers haven't given specific permission for their meshes to be Skoped...Don't be surprised if we end up with more PO'ed meshers (past or present).

It's good to see folks like Peerless trying to make sure they aren't stomping on other's toes with their Skopes...However, others are thinking it's probably okay to Skope a mesher's work just because they can't contact the mesher or the mesher hasn't been around for a long while or has left the community...In my book, it's not okay.  Those who are getting defensive (and acting like their entitled) should ask themselves why they are feeling that way...And maybe check their egos at the door.

Dana

P.S.  Good points, Boalt....And I agree, please let this thread continue.

[REDBACKDEATH]

Well seems we are back to who gives permission and who hasn't.
You have to remember that the Meshers of FF gave permission to hex their creations and yes i have to admit nif scoping is a different thing to hexing since with hexing you only used the pieces on that one mesh yet with nif scoping you can use just about any mesh part on another mesh.

The point though is the meshers of FF just want the respect and the credit for their creation if we break that pact with them of course they will be upset, with the likes of Texas Jack,and others that could not give permission since they have left I myself dont see why TJ wouldn't let us nif scope his meshes he just wanted to share his work so we could all enjoy it.

You cant always get permission from people that are no longer around and the work is public domain now(no that doesn't mean we can abuse it).
This is my opinion since i used to deal with these people before i left and all we have to do is stick to the old rules of the FF community and just respect the artists and their work and in turn they have always allowed us to use or modify their work.

BTW:yes i've got some stuff nif scoped also and will show some when i get the time.