Combining Several Mods: Is this possible?

[life_matrix]

In my opinion, one of the aspects of Freedom Force that makes it so fun is the ability to upgrade your heroes by boosting the levels of existing powers and buying new ones. Of course, this is only possible after gaining considerable XP/CP and usually this involves successfully completing many missions with said hero(es).

Thing is: The original missions (and story) that comes with Freedom Force gets pretty tired after playing through a few times. And that's where all the wonderful mods and other custom content comes in.

Problem is, many mods are so short that the entire thing is over before your hero(es) attain their full potential. Indeed, even with the original FF missions it is unlikely that any of your heroes reach maximum potential in terms of the maximum level of powers. What's a player to do?

IDEA: Would it be possible to script something (or somehow alter the content of existing mods) so as to combine them into one? That is, combine mod "abc" with mod "xyz" so a player can play through both with the same group of heroes - starting with "abc" and ending with "xyz"? I'm serious.

True enough, most mods have a unique cast of heroes, many of whom are required as an integral part of the story. (And many mods revolve around a specific comics universe like DC or Marvel.) But I figure that at least some of the heroes from the first mod could be carried over to the second one. And, obviously, a person could not distribute such a modified/combined mod without permission from the authors. But I'm still interested in this possibility for the enjoyment potential. (Perhaps a script could be written and distributed which merely modifies existing mods that have already been installed?)

That is, I'd like to be able to combine mods so that the hero(es), hero powers/levels, XP/CP, and prestige are all carried over from one mod to the other. And to do so without requiring the mod authors to rewrite or recompile anything.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

It's certainly possible, but would involve a bit of work.  Not so much as it would seem, however.

But you really need to know how to mod before attempting it.

[Lunarman]

What Dr Mike (in the strangers) and me (possibly in LB too) have done is add a little bit of script to every mission (or have it called from an outsdie script for ease) that gives +50xp extra to your heroes every mission. Dr Mike also made it so each hero got another +50xp for each secondary objective they completed. This means your heroes level up faster and therefore reach their maximum potential in time for the last few missions.

That's what I'd do instead. Combining mods might get confusing. Especially since almost every mod uses different chars and even two x-men mods would have different takes on wolverine for example.

I also have a feeling that there is a bug with missions if you go over 29. So there you'd be stuck.

Lunarman

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I also have a feeling that there is a bug with missions if you go over 29. So there you'd be stuck.

Something like that is true in FF, but it's been unconfirmed in FFvTTR.

[bearded]

i've got an idea for this;  what if you stored xp gained in a txt file, custom script, for every mission?  then when you start a new campaign, if it's with the same character, you would get the bonus xp starting out, custom script for mission one.  this is also something that might could be appended to m25's custom ai's.
this would probably throw the balance on some games, but would it work for patriot city style games?

[life_matrix]

What Dr Mike (in the strangers) and me (possibly in LB too) have done is add a little bit of script to every mission (or have it called from an outsdie script for ease) that gives +50xp extra to your heroes every mission. Dr Mike also made it so each hero got another +50xp for each secondary objective they completed. This means your heroes level up faster and therefore reach their maximum potential in time for the last few missions.

That's what I'd do instead. Combining mods might get confusing...

But I want to combine some mods, for my own enjoyment. Besides, there are a couple mods with universes that could almost coincide. And there are so many mods out there with between 1 and 4 missions, which I thought might be more fun if they could be combined.

Also, worrying about having enough XP to maximize the potential of team members is only part of the reason I wanted to do this. More missions means earning more prestige points. And that, in turn, means being able to recruit custom heroes with higher costs.

Of course, if I have to know how to mod to do this, I could probably just add my custom heroes to the built-in team roster. But that would feel a bit like cheating...

I also have a feeling that there is a bug with missions if you go over 29. So there you'd be stuck.

Something like that is true in FF, but it's been unconfirmed in FFvTTR.

FFvTR has been out for a while now and more mods are available. So, has this theoretical 29 mission limit been confirmed yet?

[life_matrix]

i've got an idea for this;  what if you stored xp gained in a txt file, custom script, for every mission?  then when you start a new campaign, if it's with the same character, you would get the bonus xp starting out, custom script for mission one.  this is also something that might could be appended to m25's custom ai's. this would probably throw the balance on some games, but would it work for patriot city style games?

This is an interesting idea. Can this really be done? If there is worry about game balance, fans could be warned about possibly breaking balance and fun value if they choose to install it. And an XP limit could be implemented in the script so that it doesn't get too out of hand. But, personally, I'm more interested in the idea of using a custom script to store prestige and to carry that between campaigns. That would be cool.

If it works, I think such a script would be almost the same as literally combining mods. The main difference being that nearly anyone should be able to install and use it, without having to know how to mod.

This is just an idea, but: If this comes down to appending something to m25's custom ai, perhaps another script could be included that would automatically make opponents tougher, depending on how much the heroes team is developed? Nothing fancy, but couldn't a script increase the enemies' HP, Energy, and power levels to correspond? (Perhaps it could take an average or total of the HP, Energy, and power levels of all heroes on the team and, using a formula, compare this with the average for enemies and make some minor adjustments while the next mission is being loaded?)

[yell0w_lantern]

I don't know if the 29 mission limit holds but I plan on finding out. I'm on mission 4 of my 50+ mission mod.

[Previsionary]

ask rmt; he has the longest mod out now. Well, not out...but I'd assume it's the longest regardless of the simple nature of it.

[qazwsx]

If only more people Ezscripted, that could easily be combined into a cohesive freeroam experience. Granted it has some limits, but it's getting really powerful these days. The one area which is truly improvable is with cutscenes. Can more than one character be moved or given animations simultanoesly with Python Prev? Judging by how spidy has to move to the side before Rhino does any throwing I take it that's a no, yes?

[Previsionary]

If only more people Ezscripted, that could easily be combined into a cohesive freeroam experience. Granted it has some limits, but it's getting really powerful these days. The one area which truly improvable is with cutscenes. Can more than one character be moved or given animations simultanoesly with Python Prev? Judging by how spidy has to move to the side before Rhino does any throwing I take it that's a no, yes?

Incorrect. Check out some other mods from even the ff1 era and you'll notice that you can have several characters moving and doing some pretty complex things at the same time. Python is more powerful than ezscript at its current incarnation (and it'll probably always be more powerful). Considering I made Spidey three years ago, I hope you weren't expecting uber fancy cutscene work there. At the time, that was the best way to work that scenario out without breaking the scene, creating an error, or having rhino's part execute before Spidey was out of the way. So no, I wouldn't say that ezscript can provide much better cutscene work considering you still can't create all the effects you can in cutscenes via python...but that's a 'me' thing.  ;)

My suggestions to check out for some powerful python work: Alex's JLA mod (one cutscene in particular...but you'd need to play it), Dr. Mike's stuff (FFX itself is something ezscript couldn't do...but then again, it's based upon it + m25's python work), some of my 'continuous' spawning codes in my later mods, etcetera.

[qazwsx]

I never said EZscript was powerful :huh: I think you misunderstood me, I meant that Ezscripts cutscene are sequential and was wondering if how much better Python could do them.

[Previsionary]

Granted it has some limits, but it's getting really powerful these days. The one area which is truly improvable is with cutscenes. Can more than one character be moved or given animations simultanoesly with Python Prev? Judging by how spidy has to move to the side before Rhino does any throwing I take it that's a no, yes?

You said it's getting really powerful, did you not...indicating that it's at some level of power? One way or another...I never talked about ezscript's level of power directly. I said python currently outranks it in things it's capable of, expanded upon it, and offered some examples. Your second quote is what would confuse me if posted first. All cutscenes are sequential, so I've no real idea what you're getting at there.

MMk, the simple line is that ezscript is designed for those who wanted to mod, but didn't want to learn the language. It's designed to be easier and quicker*, but it can't pull off all the complexities of regular code. It's basically the "layman's version" of python for the everyday person.

I guess part of the issue here is that I've never seen anything really complex (IE: more than 'turning' as far as movement goes) tried in ezscript yet. So, maybe you could better explain what you mean or offer examples?

BUUUUT, for comparison's sake. Here's a visual difference between python coding (which I havent done in a year) and an ezscript "coding" which I borrowed from Imalonsof's Dr. Strange mini-mod. Maybe this will provide you with some answers (or help someone else):

Encounter: enc1
Type: Fight
Villains: alien_warrior, alien_warrior
Next: none

Start Cutscene:
Camera on villain1
villain1 turns to hero1
villain2 turns to hero1
hero1 says, "There!"
villain1 says, "You couldn't stop us in Rann and you won't stop us here!"

The way I understand this is that this is a fight encounter, but the cutscene will play before the fighting. Imitating the cutscene only would be something like the following:

Code (prev's sample) Select Expand

cutscene name = [
(
"startCS()",
"see()",
"peace()",
"look('villain1')",
"wait(1)",
),
(
"turnTo('villain1', 'hero1')",
"turnTo('villain2', 'hero1')",
"speak('hero1', 'herotext')",
),
(
"speak('villain1', 'villaintext')",
),
(
"war()",
"endCS()",
),
]

So, as you can see, pure coding would be a bit longer to actually do, but you'd get pretty much the same results. On the python side, the code could actually be shrunk or grown a bit depending on the prowess of the coder based on the example provided alone and not adding on new parts. So...I hope that answers your questions or at least gives you something to think about, heh.

*quicker- This is subjective, but since you don't have to learn codes and their hooks and you only have to type in simpler commands in notepad, by default it would be easier. I can't sit and compare the two, not having used ezscript for anything, and I work much better in python than I would with a text file. Though, I've yet to see anyone release an ezscript mod in the same amount of time it has taken me to release 2 mods. *toot*

[M25]

Hrm...

Characters in EZ script cutscenes can run, walk, fly, teleport, play animations, etc. just as in hand-coded cutscenes.  There's quite a few commands available and more can be added. 

But that's beside the point.

No one should think that EZ script is as powerful as python.  You can do anything directly in python that you can do in EZ script, and more.  If you have a good handle on python programming, you can be very creative.  Previsionary and many others have produced some great mods.

On the other hand, no one should think that EZ Script can't produce worthwhile missions.  The missions I've written in EZ Script are easily as complex, fun, and interesting as ones I've hand-coded directly in python.  EZ script has a TON of built-in support, for everything from straight up brawls to rescues to earthquakes to branching encounters to randomization to free-roam capability.   I'd hate to see people discouraged from using it.

I'd much rather see people making mods and having fun, whichever route they take.

[Previsionary]

Just to note, I wasn't suggesting that ezscript isn't powerful and I wasn't saying that it couldn't do other movements. I said; I, personally, haven't seen many complex things done with it yet (turning was an example of the movements I've seen in the few mods i've played. Speaking relatively, not absolutely). That's either because every thing I've checked out so far has been pretty simple or because there's not a huge selection of ezscript missions out right now and even less ezscript campaigns (Tommy's mod and Imalonsof's mods are the only ones I've seen thus far).

In truth, as I've said to many people over the years, I expected more people to be coding once ezscript came out since now they had a much easier way to do it. It's just a shame not many people have taken it up for one reason or another.

[qazwsx]

Just to note, I wasn't suggesting that ezscript isn't powerful and I wasn't saying that it couldn't do other movements. I said; I, personally, haven't seen many complex things done with it yet (turning was an example of the movements I've seen in the few mods i've played. Speaking relatively, not absolutely). That's either because every thing I've checked out so far has been pretty simple or because there's not a huge selection of ezscript missions out right now and even less ezscript campaigns (Tommy's mod and Imalonsof's mods are the only ones I've seen thus far).

In truth, as I've said to many people over the years, I expected more people to be coding once ezscript came out since now they had a much easier way to do it. It's just a shame not many people have taken it up for one reason or another.

Oh is that what you meant, well then be sure to have a go at my EZscriptfreeroam when it does come out, with some clever trickery you can do all sorts of things, have people fall down, bursting into flames ala Human Torch, etc., but the two things I can't find a way around are moving or animating more than one character at a times(everything has to take turns) and performing attacks in a cutscene, so yea was pretty impressed how rhino could throw the car within the cutscene. By the way, how did you handle CP rewarding in your Ultimate X-men mod? I can't find any onmissionwon calls anywhere? I'm only asking so I can tweak it to give the CP to the characters that were actually used.
Cheerio

[life_matrix]

If only more people Ezscripted, that could easily be combined into a cohesive freeroam experience.

I'm not sure I understood you correctly. Are you saying that what bearded and myself were suggesting IS feasible with EZscript? Were you saying that it shouldn't be too difficult to use EZscript to create code that would store the experience values of each hero in a .TXT file and then, if that same hero is used in a different campain, the script gives the hero the experience it had from before? And similarly, prestige earned could be passed from one campaign to another?

Just wanted to clarify... That would be cool if this can be done in EZscript, because I don't think I'm ready (or motivated enough) to delve into learning to program in Python.

[Boalt92]

If only more people Ezscripted, that could easily be combined into a cohesive freeroam experience.

I'm not sure I understood you correctly. Are you saying that what bearded and myself were suggesting IS feasible with EZscript? Were you saying that it shouldn't be too difficult to use EZscript to create code that would store the experience values of each hero in a .TXT file and then, if that same hero is used in a different campain, the script gives the hero the experience it had from before? And similarly, prestige earned could be passed from one campaign to another?

Just wanted to clarify... That would be cool if this can be done in EZscript, because I don't think I'm ready (or motivated enough) to delve into learning to program in Python.

It's not even that complicated.  Just  add new EZScript missions to the 'stories' (or freeroam) folder.  Your characters will gain experience as usual.  You're still playing the same campaign, so you can add as many missions (theoretically) as you like.

The hard part is getting the scripters on the same page, so that all contributions have common marker/character/map references.  The biggest problem I've been having is scaling everything down....my first freeroam 'world' had over 50 areas!

B92