Power customization... a possibility?

[RTTingle]

So, looking for things to do before I go off to work, I came across this on the COH Boards about those spiffy new winged boots.

I just got the Winged Boots on the test server. There are four different varieties that open up when you invent them.
Four Kinds of Winged Boots

They generate an aura when you move based on their primary color.
Running Auras
Flying Aura - Quite striking, especially from far away.

Pretty swank. I may try to pick these up when this bugger goes live.

Pretty cool boots, and the aura thats comes from the primary you select is pretty cool.

Then it hit me.

Hey... nice styles! Something for everyone, even techies!

Those auras are nice! And you can choose the color? It goes along with the primary color choosen for the costume part? Sweet.

Hey wait a sec...

...
...
...

... thats power customization! I wonder... if they get rid of the "baked in" colors of certain powers... and if they could program it to copy the colors of a certain body part?

For example, on hands we have primary and secondary color options. What if they put in a third option? And that option would reflect the colors of the powers from that body part? So any power that generates from the hand, would do a color check... and come out that color?

Hmmmm.

Discuss?

RTT

[captainspud]

I really love pointing out flaws in people's "wouldn't that be nice" dreams. :D

The biggie with power customization is that it would put a big hit on performance for people with sub-optimal systems. Power FX use bitmaps to give them colour... if two people have the same powers in different colours, the game will need to hold two completely separate sets of bitmaps in memory for their powers. This will cause a lot more system lag for anybody running without a ton of RAM.

This is another feature that would be pretty easy to implement in CoH2, but would cause too many problems to add to CoH1.

[RTTingle]

The biggie with power customization is that it would put a big hit on performance for people with sub-optimal systems. Power FX use bitmaps to give them colour... if two people have the same powers in different colours, the game will need to hold two completely separate sets of bitmaps in memory for their powers. This will cause a lot more system lag for anybody running without a ton of RAM.

And this would be different from aura's and the new costume/inventions how?  Why shouldn't this be done for powers as well?

This is another feature that would be pretty easy to implement in MUO.

Fixed that for you.

[captainspud]

Because auras only have, what, ten different particles? Powers have thousands. Anybody you pass by would force you to load their powers into memory to be ready to show them if they're fired. You think happening upon an AP costume contest is a lagfest now? Try it after you have to preload 50 extra sets of power graphics.

[RTTingle]

Because auras only have, what, ten different particles? Powers have thousands. Anybody you pass by would force you to load their powers into memory to be ready to show them if they're fired. You think happening upon an AP costume contest is a lagfest now? Try it after you have to preload 50 extra sets of power graphics.

There is a particle slider in options if this is such an issue for those with slower systems.

[captainspud]

That only affects the count of particles displayed. I'm talking about unique particles and other power textures stored in memory. There's no slider for that.

They could do this in a fresh product, but adding it to CoH would make people who ran well before unable to play after, so it's a terrible idea for an issue update.

[RTTingle]

I'm amazed with how detailed and intricate powers are...

... only to be so poorly designed as to not allow color customization.  Heh.

I still think this is very possible.  Whether or not they'll do it of course is another story, but seeing them do these new things.  It gets me excited and hopeful that not all their effort for anything "new and exciting" is going into MUO.

RTT

[Zapow]

I'm amazed with how detailed and intricate powers are...

... only to be so poorly designed as to not allow color customization.  Heh.

I still think this is very possible.  Whether or not they'll do it of course is another story, but seeing them do these new things.  It gets me excited and hopeful that not all their effort for anything "new and exciting" is going into MUO.

RTT

Is something poorly designed when it does exactly what it is supposed to do?

I'm seeing a bunch of armchair game designing, RTT, without any real experience to back up your claims.

And of course there's the reference once again to COH design efforts being diverted to Marvel Universe Online...even though there is a totally seperate team working on MUO.

It's fine to speculate and think of new things that can better the game. It's another thing to continually rip on the development team because they aren't able to do the things you want.

[captainspud]

Yaknow how people always say they feel dirty for agreeing with me?

Now I feel dirty too... I agree with Zappy. @_@

[MJB]

I can't remember where I read it but I remember reading a developer interview where this question was asked. The response was something to the effect that it was impossible to do with so many players playing this game. It would be possible to do it if this wasn't a MMORPG.

The only solution I can think of, and I'm not a programmer so don't get started on me, is implement something that can be seen on the users end only. Kind of like a user mod. Something that would let a character have pink ice but wouldn't drag the game play down for others.

-MJB

[Zapow]

Yeah, something like that might work.

[captainspud]

You can do that now with a PIGG viewer. For example, all fire monkeys on my system are green. But therein lies the issue for some people-- ALL fire monkeys are green. It doesn't let you set yourself apart.

Plus, it's kinda hard to do. Well, not hard exactly, but complicated.

[Alaric]

Something one of the devs said recently in the official forums made me think they haven't completely given up on power customization yet- though they're obviously not going to start working actively on it until and unless they can first figure out a plausable way to make it work.

[RTTingle]

Is something poorly designed when it does exactly what it is supposed to do?

I think its very poory designed in reference to the rest of the game and how much customization it allows.  Its glaring, and for them to not do anything to allow some small amount (Like say just 4 colors) of customization is disappointing.

I stand by my opinion, I think its poorly designed in reference to not allowing any customization at all.  As for the powers as a whole, I think they' did a rather nice job.  Like Spuddy said, all the particles, etc.  How nice and pretty they are.  Some stunning effects.  They really did a keen job with everything else.  Which is all the more baffling why they didn't think of anything in regards to power customization or at least experiment with it some how... or some way with new power sets.   

I'm seeing a bunch of armchair game designing, RTT, without any real experience to back up your claims.

Didn't know I need any to express opinions in regards to it, at least last I checked.  I don't see how it matters in having an opinion and allowing to not have one at all or less of one as compared to those who do.  I'm not demanding things get done and saying what is or isn't absolutely possible.  I'm actually learning quite a bit from Spuddy about the mechanics of the game in regards to this.  I find it fascinating.  Which kind of leads me to this...

And of course there's the reference once again to COH design efforts being diverted to Marvel Universe Online...even though there is a totally seperate team working on MUO.

And I'm starting to realize this is a good thing.  Yep, lemmie say that again, its a good thing.  Why?  We have fresh minds doing things that may or may not have been done before... and doing them without the others all of a sudden telling them not to continue to work on things or do these things.

So the SSOCS gets to be wasted on for 3 years and go through its various incarnations... and its ok.  But its not for power custimization?

I'm actually glad they've shifted folks around.  Because now we have flight poses.  We have power/ability/whathave you colors linked to character choice.  To me, its just a sign of things to come that fresh minds are actually doing things that others thought impossible or not worth the time and effort.  I thought the whole MUO thing was bad.  I'm hoping its not and in this regards is good.

It's fine to speculate and think of new things that can better the game. It's another thing to continually rip on the development team because they aren't able to do the things you want.

I think you need to rethink your own statements as to what opinions, rips, insults, etc are.  I didn't rip the team anywhere.  I expressed my opinion and simply said it was a poor design in regards to power customization.  Considering powers as a whole, like I said, its a disappointment because of how nice they are.

And for as much as I express my opinions on what I don't like... I do just as much in regards to what I do like.  Nothing wrong in doing such, or expressing my opinions to see such.  Developers and creative folks usually appreciate it... its called feedback.  Its part of the reason why I'm actually enjoying this conversation with Spud in regards to powers and vehicles.

RTT

[RTTingle]

I can't remember where I read it but I remember reading a developer interview where this question was asked. The response was something to the effect that it was impossible to do with so many players playing this game. It would be possible to do it if this wasn't a MMORPG.

The only solution I can think of, and I'm not a programmer so don't get started on me, is implement something that can be seen on the users end only. Kind of like a user mod. Something that would let a character have pink ice but wouldn't drag the game play down for others.

That would be an interesting idea.  Of course, the fun is getting compliments on your cool green flames and pink electical blasts.  :P

I'd still like to see it at least in some small limited proportion, like just a few colors instead of the whole spectrum.

RTT

[RTTingle]

Something one of the devs said recently in the official forums made me think they haven't completely given up on power customization yet- though they're obviously not going to start working actively on it until and unless they can first figure out a plausable way to make it work.

OH?  What and where?  This sound svery interesting.

RTT

[Zapow]

I stand by my opinion, I think its poorly designed in reference to not allowing any customization at all.

They weren't planning on power customization, they had limited resources, and used those resources to design powers that were functional and look great. I'm still not seeing how they were poorly designed.

Imagine that you are a cook working for me. You make hamburgers. That's all you are supposed to make. I give you all the supplies to make hamburgers. You make the best hamburger you possibly can given what you have to work with and your level of cooking skill.

Should I complain when your hamburgers don't come out tasting like prime rib?

[RTTingle]

I stand by my opinion, I think its poorly designed in reference to not allowing any customization at all.

They weren't planning on power customization, they had limited resources, and used those resources to design powers that were functional and look great. I'm still not seeing how they were poorly designed.

Imagine that you are a cook working for me. You make hamburgers. That's all you are supposed to make. I give you all the supplies to make hamburgers. You make the best hamburger you possibly can given what you have to work with and your level of cooking skill.

Should I complain when your hamburgers don't come out tasting like prime rib?

And this whole power costumization, limited resources thing is documented where?

Sure, powers look great... like I said though, the fact they don't allow for ANY power customization at all --- poor design in my opinion.  Still baffles me, cause the rest of the game excells in the power of choice and expressing yourself in those regards.

I have no idea what yo're trying to say in regards to hamburgers, ribs.  All I'm talking about is a few things that are new to the game, how cool it might be if they applied it to other things and what the chances and probabilities of those things are.

All you're doing is making me hungry.

RTT

[Alaric]

Something one of the devs said recently in the official forums made me think they haven't completely given up on power customization yet- though they're obviously not going to start working actively on it until and unless they can first figure out a plausable way to make it work.

OH?  What and where?  This sound svery interesting.

RTT

It was in this post, by BackAlleyBrawler. It's a long post, but the relevent paragraph is:

These are all squarely in the realm of costumizeable power FX/Animation which we don't have a system for right now (see the recent quandry with alternate flight poses). We try to avoid making changes to power animations if at all possible unless it's to fix a bug. We share a lot of animations between powers, but you guys still associate certain animations for certain powers and get upset when things are changed for seemingly arbitrary reasons. The recent Undead Slaying Axe animation illustrates this. We changed the animation as a quick fix to resolve some issues with it with the intention of fixing the animation when time permited. The immediate response was an outcry from some players demanding the previous animation be put back. Others preferred the new one. If nothing, this illustrates that extending the ability to customize your avatar through the costume editor would probably be universally applauded if it were applied to FX and animations. We know this. Trust us.

While this certainly falls far short of saying "It's something we're working on", the parts I've bolded certainly indicate that they are still thinking about the problem, at least by my reading.

[Zapow]

And this whole power costumization, limited resources thing is documented where?

The old pre-development message board. Before the game was even in an alpha stage.

You do realize that they had and still have very limited resources to work with, right? This isn't WoW with a bijillion users. Resources scale with revenue.

Many of the things we'd all like to see in the game would be possible with more available resources.