The future of the Freedom Force series

[zuludelta]

I can't speak for everyone who's played and made content for the game, but for me, the main appeal of Freedom Force was the ability to re-create some of my favourite superheroes from the funnybooks (as well as characters of my own making) and view them in CTool. I played through the original campaign a grand total of two times, had three aborted attempts at playing DrMike2000's Strangers Mod, and basically just poked around the opening missions of the major mods released at the height of the community's popularity. I toyed around with scripting, but it was mostly out of curiosity than anything else.

Once I'd created all the characters I cared to do, the novelty of the game pretty much wore off. I tried getting into FFv3R (although I waited until it was selling for $10 to get it) but the setting and the new characters just weren't to my liking and didn't even play through the whole thing. By then it was clear to me that it wasn't the gameplay aspect that got me hooked on FF, but the creative opportunity it provided. Since the itch to create had been sufficiently scratched with the time I spent on the first game, I just didn't have any real reason to keep up with FFv3R.

Still, it's very heartening to see that there are still people who are creating new skins, meshes, mods, and whatnot for the FF community.

[crimsonquill]

I still have not outgrown FF in any shape or form... otherwise I wouldn't be working on my VPMAX voice packs. I just restarted converting voices from MUA (Marvel Ultimate Alliance) and have plans on getting more .wavs taken from Destroy All Humans 1 & 2 now that I have all these new sound tools to play with.

I finished the original FF game a year or so ago.. and only have FFvsT3R installed on my new PC (Thanks to Windows XP SP2 making this the only version I can play flawlessly) just to play endless Rumble Room conflicts with all of the characters I have in my personal collection. And I still have yet to learn skoping and skinning just so I can make all of the characters from my "Gothic Babes In Zombieland" prototype comic that I wrote back in 2002. So, I welcome any future superhero games from Irrational as long as it has a great hero creator and FREE online multiplayer (hence why I can't afford to play CoX all the time). And I still can't figure why CoX doesn't have a single player mode just to play offline for trying out characters you make.  :unsure:

- CrimsonQuill

[joemama]

I'm starting to approach Lunarman's position, where I create more than I play, but I, too, still enjoy firing up the game, especially now with EZ Script.

I think that, for the new and scriptually(?) challenged, the EZ Script freeroam offers the most long-term potential because you can still do traditional skirmishes yet also maintain the role-playing aspect of the game.  Perhaps it's time to repeat Renegade's call for an EZ Script library/exchange?

JM

[UnkoMan]

Me, I love playing the game. Of course, I'm mostly a beat a game once type of guy. But there are so many mods out there, I don't get bored. Even then I love to just fire it up for a couple of battles in the Rumble Room (usually with original heroes and villains). I don't play FF1 anymore, but that's because I find the graphical abilites of FFvsTR to be much more good to look at. And really, I want things that are good to look at. When I'm not actually playing I'll just skin random things for myself (usually very unfinished and unpleasing to look at). Or I'll download other people's skins and meshes, if only to view them and nothing else. To me the game is a big work of art, but it's art you can sit down and interact with.

If they made a new game about the Freedom Force world, I'd most likely snatch it up. With no backwards mesh/skin compatability would I be sad? Yes. But would it urge me to create even more content? Probably. Like tommy, I would feel a need to create my most loved characters, knowing they weren't out there. Of course with no backwards compatability I probably wouldn't switch to the new game full throttle. I'd still use FFvsTR, if only because I've invested a bit into it.

Man, this post is sort of all over the place. I'll end it with this. The Freedom Force franchise will most likely never get another game. I accept that. However, it still (as well as Freedom Reborn) constantly gives me an output for creative energies. I enjoy that. I don't see myself stoping use any time soon.

[HumanTon]

Like Unko, I've come to accept that there will probably never be another proper Freedom Force game. I do remain hopeful that someday someone will make another superhero game that can be heavily modded. (If Irrational did do a new version of X-Com that might fit the bill, but I wonder if that's too much to hope for with the new Take 2 management.)

I smile whenever anyone says the FF community is dead. Maybe it's never been all that huge, and yes, it's had lots of setbacks. I've wandered away myself more than once, thinking that sure this time The End Is Here. But I always return eventually, and every time I return I find the community still ticking away, creating cool new things right and left. The FF community is the kudzu of games: it always grows back. And as an avid consumer of all the cool meshes, skins, mods and tools the community creates, I am very grateful for it!

As for my own experience with FF (+FFX), I come at the game a little differently than some folks here. Superheros weren't the big appeal of FF for me, though I like 'em just fine. What interested me about FF was that it was a tactical RPG with wide open character creation. It was, and still is, the only game where I can have ninjas fight pirates, vampires and telekinetic aliens. And Godzilla. And Howard the Duck. At the same time. Why would I want to walk away from a game like that?

[bearded]

it's funny to me how ppl are talking about the return of x-com, and the eternal demise of freedom force in the same post.

[Xenolith]

I don't care if there is another FF or not.  I think the creator made content and FFX3.2 is just plain awesome.  The only, and I mean the only, thing I could want is for flying models to take knockback.  I can live without that, however.

I think every contribution is a positive one. 

[bearded]

i mean, you see what i mean, right?  is x-com dead?
if there is enough love for a game, or a setting, it will never die.  someone, somehow will bring it back.  x-com is really the best example i can think of this, right now.

[Alaric]

i mean, you see what i mean, right?  is x-com dead?
if there is enough love for a game, or a setting, it will never die.  someone, somehow will bring it back.  x-com is really the best example i can think of this, right now.

Except that the original X-Com was an extremely popular game- more popular than  :ff: by far. Unfortunately, it's not a valid comparison.

Still, I guess anything's possible.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Just keep in mind, that if it weren't for Freedom Force, MUA, the Justice League Game, and other such would never have come to pass.  They are all based on the good old FF concept, heavily altered of course.

So it's legacy will live on.

[stumpy]

I still play the game (even at times like the past month when other RL issues meant I didn't open it for most of that time). And I still like trying my hand at some of the scripting challenges out there. For me, the rule is simple: if I am active with the game (playing or creating), it's not dead. Full stop.

And, of course, the FR community can go on long after IG/T2 washes its hand of the game and even beyond people playing the game itself. The people I know here and the discussions keep me at the forum as much as the game does and would probably keep me here if I never played at all.

I agree that IG releasing a totally new version of the game would be a big deal. 99% sure I would buy it. BTW, I think IG did a respectable job of supporting the franchise, right up until the point they were bought out. Perfect? No. But pretty good, IMO.

(BTW, while I'm no expert, I've played MUA once or twice on a Wii and I can't see how the games are very simlar, aside from the broad idea that there are superheroes in both. I am glad for the success of superhero genre games and hope there is a crossover effect, but I don't see that sort of console game filling the FF niche.)

[Lunarman]

For your info Stumpy:
MUA/Freedom Force- Similarities:
4 heroes in a team
fight through missions with objectives and groups of foes
Use different powers that you gain as your hero gets XP
Play through a story meeting new heroes that automatically join you on your way
....etc

Basically the whole concept of the game is Freedom Force with slightly better graphics and a faster pace (no pause button and you control your hero with a joystick). But, in essence, MUA and FF are very,very similar

[Previsionary]

all those concepts were around before FF as well too...like in most rpg/adventure games. :P

[Shazam]

all those concepts were around before FF as well too...like in most rpg/adventure games. :P

I agree, since Mary was a boy.

[stumpy]

For your info Stumpy:
MUA/Freedom Force- Similarities:
4 heroes in a team
fight through missions with objectives and groups of foes
Use different powers that you gain as your hero gets XP
Play through a story meeting new heroes that automatically join you on your way
....etc

Basically the whole concept of the game is Freedom Force with slightly better graphics and a faster pace (no pause button and you control your hero with a joystick). But, in essence, MUA and FF are very,very similar

Those surface-level things are all clear, but the feel of play didn't seem very similar. I probably didn't play MUA long enough to get a good feel for the RPG nature of the game. It felt very bash and slash, without much of a comic book flavor, but I assume from what you are saying that things get more developed as one continues through the game. I should give it another shot.

[GogglesPizanno]

Those surface-level things are all clear, but the feel of play didn't seem very similar. I probably didn't play MUA long enough to get a good feel for the RPG nature of the game. It felt very bash and slash, without much of a comic book flavor, but I assume from what you are saying that things get more developed as one continues through the game.

It really didn't develop much more than that.
It was a fun game for what it was.
However, the different characters and their powers just seemed like window dressing to what was a simple button mashing game.

It's was a variation of Gauntlet with Marvel characters and Cut Scenes.

A. Run through level
B. Kill/Destroy everything
C. Collect "gems"
D. Boss fight
E. Rinse and Repeat

[Figure Fan]

Those surface-level things are all clear, but the feel of play didn't seem very similar. I probably didn't play MUA long enough to get a good feel for the RPG nature of the game. It felt very bash and slash, without much of a comic book flavor, but I assume from what you are saying that things get more developed as one continues through the game.

It really didn't develop much more than that.
It was a fun game for what it was.
However, the different characters and their powers just seemed like window dressing to what was a simple button mashing game.

It's was a variation of Gauntlet with Marvel characters and Cut Scenes.

A. Run through level
B. Kill/Destroy everything
C. Collect "gems"
D. Boss fight
E. Rinse and Repeat

Yeah, MUA is a pretty awesome game, but isn't anything groundbreaking by any means.

BTW, I LOVED Gauntlet Legends for N64. Dang, I miss it now..

[GogglesPizanno]

I actually always thought the GTA series of games had an engine that could have been well suited and easily adapted to a superhero type of game. They've already got an expansive "living" city, various types of missions, flying, vehicles etc... With a little bit of tweaking its pretty well set up to be a complete little Comic book world. The storyline and game play are already sorta punisher-like anyway.

Imagine San Andreas the game where one city was metropolis, the other was Gotham, and you played not as a street thug, but as Clark Kent/Superman stopping crimes, helping cops. Hell, you could play as a villain if you wanted to, the mechanics are basically the same.

Its too bad the GTA games weren't easier to Mod....

[Lunarman]

Are the GTA games on PC? (excuse my ignorence) if they are then there's always a way to mod!!

You never know, a community made FF3 could come about... :)

[GogglesPizanno]

Are the GTA games on PC? (excuse my ignorence) if they are then there's always a way to mod!!

They are.
And they can be modded.
But its ugly and mostly geared towards new cars.

Someone did create a Batmobile (form the 1989 film) for vice city.
It was fun to drive, in a really fast tank kinda way

[tommyboy]

I actually made an Ultra-Boy (from the legion of superheroes) mesh and Mod for GTA vice city, back when beginning the FF lsh mod.
But because of the difficulties of meshing and Modding in GTA VC I never followed it up or released it.

[Lunarman]

I was just thinking. If KOTOR II were moddable, tehe engine it uses could be good for a freedom force 3 game.

Although you'd have to make the turn based combat less obvious, but that shouldn't be a problem.

[electro]

Comics showed me a Universe where anything was possible and fantastic - Freedom Force showed me this world in motion (thanks a million to the community) - City of Heroes/Villains let me become the Hero/Villain - The imaginations the limit - Thank God for all 4 :blink:

[Figure Fan]

":blink:" - Electro

[Manfred]

just wanted to toss my 2 cents in,

I think the FF games will always have a future.  Sure people get sick of skinning and modding and need breaks, but these games seem to me to be really timeless.  I got FF shortly after it was released, but due to problems with my graphics card I had to play on a roommate's computer, and I got to play very little. 

I recently started playing again, and I was having so much fun with the old mods out there I dug a little deeper and saw all the cool stuff being made for FFVTR.  I recently special ordered it online (couldn't find it in stores) and installed it.  Can't wait to get deeper into it, but I know I'll still go back to FF and play it from time to time. 

As long as mods are being made, the games will be played.  Plus the software to skin and mod decently is getting cheaper all the time, so eventually broke gamers (like me  :P) will start cranking out new content.

Plus the FR community has to be the coolest I've ever found.  I haven't seen the kind of juvenile lashing out like I see in most forums for other games.  Everyone here seems real supportive of each other, and it makes me not only want to play more but also start contributing to the community.

I have yet to try my hand at the visual aspects of things, but if anyone has need of a writer for a mod let me know.  I have a Master's degree in writing and I'd love to help out if I can.

Thanks all

[Corporate Dog]

Spurred on by a thread on another forum, I was thinking about FF's future this morning.

Have any of you seen what they're doing with the 'Sam and Max' franchise these days? Or with Penny Arcade's first foray into gaming? Essentially, they're releasing new games as episodic content, on a monthly (or even biweekly) schedule.

These games don't have a ton of content to them. The 'Sam and Max' games, for instance, only have a couple of hours of play time per episode. On the other hand, each episode goes for $8.95 (or comes free with a monthly GameTap subscription), and when enough episodes have been produced, the development company intends to package them up on a disc, and sell them through traditional retail channels.

To me, this would be the IDEAL way for Irrational to give us more Freedom Force. It even works itself into the comic book idiom, with the concept of a monthly issue!

This is all an uneducated guess on my part, but from a cost perspective, they could probably do this cheaply by reusing the game engine and art assets, and retaining one full-time developer (if not, a few) who would ocassionally borrow in-house artists and modellers for new content. I guess a writer would need to be involved at some point, too. And QA folk. :P

Anyway, episodic content appears to be the new hotness, and I can't think of a game that's better-suited for it than FF. Certainly, if an old (but beloved) franchise like 'Sam and Max' can turn a profit, I have to imagine that FF (small fanbase and all) could do the same.

Regards,
Corporate Dog

[The Hitman]

First off, Corporate Dog, welcome to the boards! I hope you enjoy your stay!

Secondly, I like the Episodic approach you mentioned quite a bit, but one problen I see is on the voice- acting end of the game. I really can't see any of the actors committing to a fairly part- time gig... well, maybe George LeDeux, but that's just because he's the man.

Anyways, many fan- made missions, like Liberty Bay and what- have- you, are already set up like this for the most part.

[Hope I didn't sound mean, really wasn't my intent. See you around the boards.]

[Protomorph]

As I understand it, IG wanted to have periodic expansion missions (not monthly, though) but was unable to get it off the gorund.

[Corporate Dog]

First off, Corporate Dog, welcome to the boards! I hope you enjoy your stay!

Thanks!

Secondly, I like the Episodic approach you mentioned quite a bit, but one problen I see is on the voice- acting end of the game. I really can't see any of the actors committing to a fairly part- time gig... well, maybe George LeDeux, but that's just because he's the man.

Yeah, I considered that too. For what it's worth, the Penny Arcade games won't be voicing the main characters (though, that has more to do with 'not wanting to contradict the voices that readers apply to the characters in their heads, as they read the comic').

I don't think it's an insurmountable obstacle. IG could decide not to do new voice recordings, only record for a few characters (like the ones that George lends his voice to; Minuteman's dulcet tones MAKE the game, as far as I'm concerned), or contract out for a whole "season's" worth of voice-work.

But then, I'm well-aware that voice-acting is a big part of the FF games, it's probably one of the more expensive parts to do well, and anything less than what we've come to expect would be a little bit of a disappointment.

Anyways, many fan- made missions, like Liberty Bay and what- have- you, are already set up like this for the most part.

True. But new software sales flowing to Irrational in the name of FF, COULD translate to bigger and better things for the franchise.

I SO want to see Irrational's take on "Freedom Force in the 90's", complete with over-the-top, Liefield-inspired, foil-bedecked cover art, and stupid, EDGY characters with poorly-drawn physiques.  :P

[Hope I didn't sound mean, really wasn't my intent. See you around the boards.]

Not at all, dude. Thanks for the welcome!

As I understand it, IG wanted to have periodic expansion missions (not monthly, though) but was unable to get it off the gorund.

How long ago was that, though? And was it a traditional expansion pack that would be sold through traditional retail channels?

Because the 'episodic content' boom is kind of a new thing that's really starting to take off. And it's perfect for games with little-to-no need for marketing or packaging (which, as I understand it, was one of IG's BIGGEST expenses for the first two games).

Regards,
Corporate Dog

[Peerless1]

Well, I thought FF was dead for me until recently.  I actually forgot my original log-in and password, and had to create this identity.  Once I was back, even through the disappointment of finding a large number of the great fan creators had basically left, I never knew why I quit.

Yes, a superhero rpg tweaked me.  But it was the "create your own characters" that intrigued me, as I am a poor artist with a crazy brainstem that just keeps churning out ideas.  Yes, they are all puzzles pieced together from other people's talented endeavors, but they have that "Peerless" twist.

Now that I am learning NifSkope, I can finally do some things that I just didn't want to bother others with before.  Not to mention, help out those who are reflections of me a few years ago...just a guy downloading all the great artwork, skins, mods, tools, etc. created by those still here as well as those who are gone.  And I don't play a whole lot, although I have downloaded a couple of the "newer" mods, and some of the old ones that others have put back out there.

I know I am mostly rambling here, but to the point...I believe this game, due to the members of this community new and old, is really just getting off the ground (again).  And I want to thank every1 who has offered me support, criticism, and even a small demand for my "kitbashed" (skoped) meshes. 

I plan to be here for the long haul (not that I won't take vacations occasionally).  And it's not just all the love and sweat that have gone into the assorted projects, but the way people here are mostly friendly.  And hey, I know sometimes it's a pain in the @$$ that many like me ask ask ask, and sometimes don't seem very gracious...but all the efforts are appreciated, even when my mouth fingers gets ahead of my brain sometimes.  (And in frustration I say stupid things like "how do you get rid of those ridiculous kneepads?" when what I really want is no kneepads for a particular character. Yes, that was me...) 

I think this game has a future so long as any number of us keep coming here.  If IG and their new parent company don't see fit to make any more FF, oh well.  There are still a load of mods I haven't played, and if I can get focused here, I may start one of my own.

Oh well--this is what makes 5 cents worth about zilch.  Thanks to all anyway.  And I hope to see every1 around for awhile (even if only intermittently).  :D