Marvel ruin another character (illuminati spoiler)

[gdaybloke]

... didn't Scarlet Witch declare "No more mutants"?

[cmdrkoenig67]

New mutants are still appearing on occasion and many of those who were depowered are being re-powered by her brother, Quicksilver (via the Terrigen crystals he stole from the Inhumans) or by other means (Feral, Thornn and Wild Child in the latest crappy Wolverine storyline).

Dana

[Jakew]

I don't feel too strongly about The Beyonder one way or the other ... although it does seem that Bendis has the power to change/integrate whatever characters he pleases into the Marvel universe.

[daglob]

It's funny. I quit reading the X-Men in the mid-'80s because I got tired of them dumping dren on the characters all the time. The long spells of misery and unhappiness were relieved by short spells of less misery and less unhappiness. Over the years I quit reading Avengers, FF, DD, Thor, Iron Man, Moon Knight, and dozens of other because what was being done with the characters didn't appeal to me. I started reading Strachzinski's (or however it's spelled) Spider Man because I generally liked Babylon 5, and I generally liked it (except for the constant whining). DC has managed to do pretty much the same thing (although I was often amused by the way some writers wrote Hal Jordon like a barely competent poster child for ADD who I don't think had enough willpower to run a flashlight, much less a power ring, while others wrote him as a mature, confident, COMPETENT individual who was a hero in every way), although it took longer.

I wonder if many of the writers today aren't nihillists, or feel that everything sucks in this world, living sucks, then you die and it sucks to be dead, so why not wirte about characters whose lives suck even worse than yours. When did it become therapeutic to read stories about miserable, unhappy people, who will never succeed and cannot win but are too stubborn (NOT heroic) to give up?  I quit the X-Men because I was tired of seeing people I had actually grown to like and care about in constant pain with me unable to do anything about it.
Except quit reading the book.

You want to read about someone who has to fight his way to success through more opposition than is humanly bearable? Read reprints of the old Spider pulp. At the end of the story, after literally crawling through rivers of blood (they weren't called "bloody pulps" for nothing) with two broken legs, he emerges triumphant, with the villain dead, quite often in pieces. Okay, so The Spider is probably paranoid, but then again, there ARE people out to get him.

[MJB]

With the obvious Marvel Bashing™ aside I would like to say something.

Who cares?

I don't recall fans clamoring for a Beyonder mini-series after SW2. It doesn't matter who wrote the Illuminati issue that revealed this "fact". It could have been Stan Lee himself and people would whine. Why, you ask? It's because most comic fans do not like the thought of the statis quo being bothered.

Beyonder was a character that hasn't had anything sugnificant happen to him in years. Damn Bendis, or whom ever, for trying to come up with a new angle on him.

Marvel has a lot of pure crap going on these days but this isn't one of those things.

-MJB

[daglob]

With the obvious Marvel Bashing™ aside I would like to say something.

Who cares?

Me, somewhat. And my rant had to do with comics in general, not just Marvel. Most of us fear that a medium we enjoy is being destroyed by those who claim to love it as much as we do. The complaint of the readers isn't that they want status quo so much as they want entertaining, exciting, well written stories about characters who have at least SOME redeeming value. True, many would accept exciting and entertaining only, but what are comic books, anyway? Like any form of fiction, they are meant as a form of entertainment. If you learn something along the way, that's great, if you don't, that's okay too.
Me, I like to look at the pretty pictures.

[tommyboy]

With the obvious Marvel Bashing™ aside I would like to say something.

Who cares?

I don't recall fans clamoring for a Beyonder mini-series after SW2. It doesn't matter who wrote the Illuminati issue that revealed this "fact". It could have been Stan Lee himself and people would whine. Why, you ask? It's because most comic fans do not like the thought of the statis quo being bothered.

Beyonder was a character that hasn't had anything sugnificant happen to him in years. Damn Bendis, or whom ever, for trying to come up with a new angle on him.

Marvel has a lot of pure crap going on these days but this isn't one of those things.

-MJB

I've got news for you.
Bendis is the Status Quo at marvel. Has been for the last three to four years.
I actually want change, away from his stale, repetitive, inward looking, derivative, shallow, fanboy-turned-writer-who-gets-to-publish-all-the-samizdat-nonsense-he-came-up-with-as-a-ten-year-old "writing".
I want writers who can spell, who know the actual meaning of the words they use, who tell stories with a beginning, middle and end.
What I don't want is endless retcons and so-called "character moments" (that are nothing of the sort since there is only ever Bendis talking to himself).

And yes, Beyonder is a weak character that not many people cared much about. Which sort of raises the question Why Bother To Retcon Him? What was Broken, that needed to be Fixed? If you don't like the character and stories hes in, ignore them. It's not like Secret Wars were a lynchpin of current continuity. If Bendis wanted to retcon something with the words "secret" and "war" in the title, he should have retconned away the ordure that was his own "secret war".

If I pitched my idea to marvel that since FF#5 Doctor Doom had secretly been a member of the Fantastic Four, and that I now wanted to re-tell and retcon every FF comic and Doom appearance with that premise, most people would think it A) Bizarre, B) Boring, C) Likely to undermine and do a disservice to decades of perfectly good comics that are not in any need of a retcon. You might consider me a touch egotistical for thinking that my ideas supercede those of Lee and Kirby. And you may opine that my endless conversations between Doom and his "teammates" were less interesting than the comics I would be trashing. You might reasonably point out that I, in fact, had no original ideas at all, and just wanted to leech off the talent and hard work of others by presenting their ideas and stories as "re-imagined" as my own.
Excuse me, I've got to email my pitch to Joey Q.....

No, ultimately I don't "care". Nor do I spend money on comics anymore.
But theres a big difference between expressing a dislike of something and "whining" about it.
 
   

[UnfluffyBunny]

Beyonder was in "beyond" very recently

and for the record my fave beyonder moment was when dr doom tried to siphon power out of him, this event takes all sense away from that

[Xenolith]

I would just like to vote for Tommyboy for President of Comics.

[Agent]

With the obvious Marvel Bashing™ aside I would like to say something.

Who cares?

I don't recall fans clamoring for a Beyonder mini-series after SW2. It doesn't matter who wrote the Illuminati issue that revealed this "fact". It could have been Stan Lee himself and people would whine. Why, you ask? It's because most comic fans do not like the thought of the statis quo being bothered.

Beyonder was a character that hasn't had anything sugnificant happen to him in years. Damn Bendis, or whom ever, for trying to come up with a new angle on him.

Marvel has a lot of pure crap going on these days but this isn't one of those things.

-MJB

I've got to agree with MJB here.  The Beyonder's been drifting in limbo for a long time now (BTW, the Beyonder wasn't in Beyond.  That was the Stranger.)  If someone wants to dust him off and actually do something with him, I say why not?

[tommyboy]

With the obvious Marvel Bashing™ aside I would like to say something.

Who cares?

I don't recall fans clamoring for a Beyonder mini-series after SW2. It doesn't matter who wrote the Illuminati issue that revealed this "fact". It could have been Stan Lee himself and people would whine. Why, you ask? It's because most comic fans do not like the thought of the statis quo being bothered.

Beyonder was a character that hasn't had anything sugnificant happen to him in years. Damn Bendis, or whom ever, for trying to come up with a new angle on him.

Marvel has a lot of pure crap going on these days but this isn't one of those things.

-MJB

I've got to agree with MJB here.  The Beyonder's been drifting in limbo for a long time now (BTW, the Beyonder wasn't in Beyond.  That was the Stranger.)  If someone wants to dust him off and actually do something with him, I say why not?

My initial answer is simply the law of diminishing returns.
Some characters should be limited in appearance because they are too powerful. I think this applies to Galactus to some extent as well. The more you see them beaten by Power Pack or Speedball, the less awe inspiring they are, the less interesting it is. When they do appear it should be A Big Deal, not some cheesy one issue retcon that makes them into Yet Another All Powerful Mutant. Maybe Bendis could do an Illuminatu where Galactus is a mutant too.
My second answer is a question: What Did They "Do" with him, anyway? What was added? How is yet another inhuman, yet another Mutant Who Controls Reality (Proteus, Scarlet Witch, Jim Jaspers, Franklin Richards etc etc) really "doing something"? The original conception was of a force beyond human comprehension, beyond human understanding. Which may or may not have become the New Universe. Which may or may not have been part of a Cosmic Cube. None of those are intrinsically bad ideas, bad starting points for a story. Does anything about previous appearances of the Beyonder now make more, or less sense? Why would a mutant inhuman do any of what the beyonder did? They wouldn't. They wouldn't even do what he did in this comic, let alone any other. If he wanted to fit in, alter reality and become The Sentry. If he wants to understand heroism alter reality and become an Xman. If he wants to be accepted by Black Bolt and the Inhumans, alter realty to be accepted. No, in the end, (leaving aside the intrinsic absurdity of all-powerful beings), this comic doesn't make any sense even as a stand-alone issue. Considered within the context of other comics it makes less and less sense. That really isn't "doing something". It really isn't a "new angle". It really isn't worth the effort of thinking about it this much (which is a lot more than Bendis did), and typing out this or any future replies.
If you liked it, good for you, you'll be getting more of the same for the foreseeable future.
For the rest of us, majority or minority that we are, it was a bit less fun.

[Agent]

I'm not reading the Illuminati, but isn't it possible they haven't revealed what they're going to do with him yet.

[tommyboy]

I'm not reading the Illuminati, but isn't it possible they haven't revealed what they're going to do with him yet.

No.
You don't get to say "wait and see" about Bendis anymore. I waited. I saw. Several Years is long enough.
You don't get to say "that comic isn't bad because someday in the future some other, as yet unwritten, unpublished, comic will redeem it".
They have revealed what they are going to do with him. He's now a mutant inhuman for no reason in particular. That's it. That's all there is. I did read it, so I know. And he's less interesting now than before, as is pretty much everything Bendis writes. Better selling, yes, but worthless.
In.My.Opinion. 

[Spring Heeled Jack]

If there's another super-powerful mutant who can control time and space, can we possibly petition him to undo the last three years of Bendis's Marvel employment?

'Cause then I'd be okay with the Beyonder being a mutant.

[crimsonquill]

Tommy has gotten me thinking about Marvel's biggest problem... actually it's not just comics but TV series too (i.e. LOST for most of the last 3 seasons) which have taken advantage of decompression storytelling. Which is really good in theory but when it takes 12 issues to tell a story which is told in overblown dialogue and 2-page spread artwork then it really starts to get on a comic book readers nerves. Sure it's great for those TPB collections for bookstore sales but comic books are hardly leaving me running to the shelves like I used to for the next issue of my favorite title. I just buzzed thru my weeks comics and some titles just managed to tell 4 pages of story in the whole comic and padded the rest to leave you hanging for next issue and the next plus needing to understand 3 different BIG story arcs in other titles.

Illuminati is more or less setting up the whole story arc that Marvel's resident watchdogs have been sticking their fingers into solving every problem in the universe even if they can't get along among themselves too well. Now the large set of dominoes they have set up since their founding are slowing tumbling down to a big event that Quesada had been hinting at since he took over as EIC - "putting the Genies back into their bottles". I'm pretty sure that he plans on doing a major major house cleaning sometime next year and needs to have some uber-gods handy to make this happen.

- CrimsonQuill

[cmdrkoenig67]

Tommy has gotten me thinking about Marvel's biggest problem... actually it's not just comics but TV series too (i.e. LOST for most of the last 3 seasons) which have taken advantage of decompression storytelling. Which is really good in theory but when it takes 12 issues to tell a story which is told in overblown dialogue and 2-page spread artwork then it really starts to get on a comic book readers nerves. Sure it's great for those TPB collections for bookstore sales but comic books are hardly leaving me running to the shelves like I used to for the next issue of my favorite title. I just buzzed thru my weeks comics and some titles just managed to tell 4 pages of story in the whole comic and padded the rest to leave you hanging for next issue and the next plus needing to understand 3 different BIG story arcs in other titles.

Illuminati is more or less setting up the whole story arc that Marvel's resident watchdogs have been sticking their fingers into solving every problem in the universe even if they can't get along among themselves too well. Now the large set of dominoes they have set up since their founding are slowing tumbling down to a big event that Quesada had been hinting at since he took over as EIC - "putting the Genies back into their bottles". I'm pretty sure that he plans on doing a major major house cleaning sometime next year and needs to have some uber-gods handy to make this happen.

- CrimsonQuill

LOL...A housecleaning needed, because of the messes he helped to create?  That's funny.  Do you think they'll bring Captain America back for this upcoming event too?

Dan

[cripp12]

That was scary at first I thought everyone was talking about our FF Beyonder.  Damn you Bendis.
I wonder if now that we are older we look at things differently.  When I was younger I never said any comic was crap. I would read with my eyes open with excitement. Now I take a look and almost everything is crap.

[daglob]

That was scary at first I thought everyone was talking about our FF Beyonder.  Damn you Bendis.
I wonder if now that we are older we look at things differently.  When I was younger I never said any comic was crap. I would read with my eyes open with excitement. Now I take a look and almost everything is crap.

Lucky person; you obviously weren't exposed to Prez at an aearly age (but I've always had a fondness for The Geek).

To some extent, it's always been crap, but it was ENTERTAINING crap. I mentioned The Spider previoiusly: I knoow that the things are overwritten, seldom edited, and have plot holes that you could sail The Titanic through, but if you get caught up in what passes for a story, you don't think about that until you are finished. I mean, you KNOW he's gonna get out of it, but HOW?

I've read the first three Showcase Presents Superman. You want to see plot holes and contradictions? His strength fluctuates from story to story within a single issue. The plots are weak, the resolution are often deux ex machina, there is very little logic, most of the people in the stories act like kids, and scientific possibilities abound. They're still fun to read.

And don't get me started about the science in The Flash.
I noticed a few years ago that some artist were reducing the number of panels on a page. The problem with this, is that it also controls the pace of the story. It's no secret, comic book artists have laid out stories to control the pacing probably since the late '40s (and Bob Kane & Co. and I think Jack Burnley earlier). Kirby may have been the first to utilize the splash page or the double-page spread. The thing is, spalsh pages tend to stop the pace of the story. Kirby usually used it for some dramatic moment (and Neal Adams and Jim Steranko followed suit), but now it's being used to sell the original art. What it does to the pacing of the story is make it like driving a car while your foot is riding the brake: vrooom-screech, vrooom-screech, vrooom-screech. That isn't entertaining, that's annoying. It's also why I quit reading several Image comics.

I also have a rhetorical question: how does an artist end up Editor in Chief? Even when Carmine Infantino was boss at DC, it didn't completly make sense to me. And I have the utmost respect for Carmine (especially after reading Showcase Presents The Flash #1), but c'mon. Could Kirby have b een EIC at Marvel? Don Heck?

Somewhere I read an article on the different influences different generation of comic book creators have had. I remember the bit about the first group having mostly motion pictures and newspaper strips as a basis, then the later groups adding pulp magazines (including detective, S/F, and adventrue pulps), then paperbacks and TV and more recent ones adding video games. I wish I could remember the rest of the aritcle or where I saw it. The gist was that it blamed a lot of the problems with comic books (and several other forms of fiction) with the lack of originality in the source materials. I remember that I thought that Crisis and Zero Hour was a lot like someone hitting the "reset" button on an Atari.

[cmdrkoenig67]

That was scary at first I thought everyone was talking about our FF Beyonder.  Damn you Bendis.
I wonder if now that we are older we look at things differently.  When I was younger I never said any comic was crap. I would read with my eyes open with excitement. Now I take a look and almost everything is crap.

No way, Cripp...for the most part, many comics were not crap when we were young.  I don't know how old you are , but I grew up in the seventies (I loved, loved, loved Marvel's horror comic line) and eighties (where I fell in love with the X-Men, Alpha Flight and the Doom Patrol).  Back then, comics were fun and had great storylines, now they're all about Luke Cage giving it to a former superheroine in the back door, Ultimate Hank Pym shrinking and then crawling up into Jan's panties or killing off characters just because nobody seems to be able to write them well...Shudder!

I did look at some comics as crap, when I was a kid...Mostly, my sister's Archie comics...LOL(I know now that they weren't crap...Just not my taste)!

We do look at things differently as we age, but it's only because we get a bit more sophisticated in our tastes(for the most part).

Dana

[Kommando]

... an omnipotent being shows up in a Michael Jackson jacket and fights humans. Um... okay.

Neil Diamond.  For me, it was always Neil Diamond versus the Marvel Universe.

I would just be happy if Marvel could choose a continuity and stick with it.

[cripp12]

Yep, I agree.

That was scary at first I thought everyone was talking about our FF Beyonder.  Damn you Bendis.
I wonder if now that we are older we look at things differently.  When I was younger I never said any comic was crap. I would read with my eyes open with excitement. Now I take a look and almost everything is crap.

No way, Cripp...for the most part, many comics were not crap when we were young.  I don't know how old you are , but I grew up in the seventies (I loved, loved, loved Marvel's horror comic line) and eighties (where I fell in love with the X-Men, Alpha Flight and the Doom Patrol).  Back then, comics were fun and had great storylines, now they're all about Luke Cage giving it to a former superheroine in the back door, Ultimate Hank Pym shrinking and then crawling up into Jan's panties or killing off characters just because nobody seems to be able to write them well...Shudder!

I did look at some comics as crap, when I was a kid...Mostly, my sister's Archie comics...LOL(I know now that they weren't crap...Just not my taste)!

We do look at things differently as we age, but it's only because we get a bit more sophisticated in our tastes(for the most part).

Dana

[Talavar]

I don't agree.  A lot of comics now are crap; a lot of comics then were crap.  Styles have changed, and the superhero fanbase is notoriously conservative - that's part of it, but the gross generalizations some people throw out about "all" comics of today bug me.

[doctorchallenger]

A lot of comics back then were crap. I think the essential difference was that in the 60s 70s and early 80s, creators were trying to make good stories as opposed to creating a "comics events."   DC and Marvel now go from event to event.  The event nature benefits all involved with the business end of things: the Comics company which sees spikes in sales of all involved titles (which at this point includes everything) plus creates a product which is easilly repackaged into a trade paperback for further sales, not to mention ancillary products (see DC's Action Figures of late - all tied to comics events); the creators gain celebrity status, and higher wages as a result; the retailers have back issues hat they can sell at inflated prices mmediately after the event ends.  Those shelling out the money, us, don't benefit as much.  We have to shell out more money for what usually is an inferior product because it it is created by committee. 
To me Civil War is a commitment by Marvel to event comics (hmmm... is it ironic that Quesada's old company was called Event Comics?) - now its continuity is simply one portacted event, encompassing every aspect of the universe, including those aspects that are better left alone, like Beyonder. 

Yeah - I'll have go with Neil Diamond too.

[Mowgli]

With the obvious Marvel Bashing™ aside I would like to say something.

Who cares?

I don't recall fans clamoring for a Beyonder mini-series after SW2. It doesn't matter who wrote the Illuminati issue that revealed this "fact"...

Beyonder was a character that hasn't had anything sugnificant happen to him in years...

Marvel has a lot of pure crap going on these days but this isn't one of those things.

-MJB

EXACTLY. That's what I was saying before when I mentioned that I didn't even think of the Beyonder. He was a weak story device to begin with... so why care what happens to him now?

Answer... another reason to bash Bendis. At least I guess that's it, because I can't think of any other reason to be even mildly concerned with the Beyonder's storyline. Seems like a lot of people around here hate Bendis. "Bendification" and "his retconning sucks" are terribly common on these forums now.

But what has he done that's worse than what many other writer's have done in the past? Retconning? That's so bad? That's what Cable, Bishop and Deadpool are practically based on. Bendis didn't make those characters suck. A lot of writers do that. Then there's the reverse. Like John Byrne's genius idea to destroy another writer's work. He had Reed Richards wake up at the beginning of an FF comic, stating, "what a nightmare", dismissing the entire last storyline as just a dream. In my opinion, THAT'S bad writing.

I don't like everything Bendis does, to be sure. But I do like some of what he does. And I certainly don't think he is any worse than many of the other "great writers" who were hot for a time, and aren't anymore. It's his time, and it won't last forever. But in my opinion, it has been worse.

Also...

tommyboy wrote:  "No. You don't get to say "wait and see" about Bendis anymore. I waited. I saw. Several Years is long enough.  You don't get to say "that comic isn't bad because someday in the future some other, as yet unwritten, unpublished, comic will redeem it". "

Actually, yes he can. Isn't this a great country? We all have our opinions, and we can state them as often as we like. Who knows, maybe the next storyline WILL be better and make sense of this choice for the Beyonder. Comic bookks and their writers are often unpredictable things. That's one of the reasons I keep buying them.

Lastly, why do so many people say, "Well, I don't buy comics anymore," or "I'm glad I don't read comics anymore" and then go on to explain why they hate this new comic idea? Those statements have been made in many, many threads in the comic forum. If you don't read comics anymore, then why waste your time complaining about something you aren't even interested in? Do people just like complaining? I'm just curious, because I stopped playing football after high school, but I don't get on forums and complain about the current state of high school football programs.

[tommyboy]

But what has he done that's worse than what many other writer's have done in the past?

Most writers in the past actually know what the words they use mean. Bendis doesn't. I can cite examples if you want.
Most writers in the past understand what a story is, and what a story isn't. Bendis doesn't. He thinks a story is a series of conversations punctuated by two page spreads. It isn't.
Most writers in the past would not compare their writing to Shakespeare. Bendis does.

Also...

tommyboy wrote:  "No. You don't get to say "wait and see" about Bendis anymore. I waited. I saw. Several Years is long enough.  You don't get to say "that comic isn't bad because someday in the future some other, as yet unwritten, unpublished, comic will redeem it". "

Actually, yes he can. Isn't this a great country? We all have our opinions, and we can state them as often as we like. Who knows, maybe the next storyline WILL be better and make sense of this choice for the Beyonder. Comic bookks and their writers are often unpredictable things. That's one of the reasons I keep buying them.

In a discussion or argument about the merits of a piece of work, citing as yet unwritten, unpublished comics to support it is devoid of any value within that argument or discussion. It's not a matter of "opinion", it's a matter of a fallacy within the context of the discussion. He might as well say "but if I have a really nice cup of coffee next week that will make sense of Illuminati #3". It won't. That isn't about whether someone has freedom of speech, it's about the context of that discussion.

Lastly, why do so many people say, "Well, I don't buy comics anymore," or "I'm glad I don't read comics anymore" and then go on to explain why they hate this new comic idea? Those statements have been made in many, many threads in the comic forum. If you don't read comics anymore, then why waste your time complaining about something you aren't even interested in? Do people just like complaining? I'm just curious, because I stopped playing football after high school, but I don't get on forums and complain about the current state of high school football programs.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for my part I do still read comics, but am very particular about what I buy. I wouldn't spend money on what Bendis does, but I do read the parts of his work that affect titles I have followed, or do follow. I'd point out to you that I have the right to post "complaints" or otherwise about any thing I please, thanks, regardless of whether you approve or understand why I do it. Thats the nature of free speech. If you don't want to read any particular posts, don't read them. Or read them and disagree. And post your disagreement.
I'll freely admit I don't like 99% of what Bendis writes, and I do post on that subject. You can characterise that as "Bendis Bashing" if you like, but that doesn't make him a better writer. In fact your complete lack of contrary factual or critical arguments to counter my opinions just makes me more certain that I am right. Your reliance on the " Who knows, maybe the next storyline WILL be better and make sense of this choice for the Beyonder" argument, yet again, is not a matter of opinion. It is your imaginary comic retroactively justifying Bendis poor real comic. It is not even approaching a valid argument, any more than if I said "maybe his next comic will make this one seem even worse". The only things worth discussing are the comics that exist, for real. Which is what this thread is about.

[Ajax]

I don't agree.  A lot of comics now are crap; a lot of comics then were crap.  Styles have changed, and the superhero fanbase is notoriously conservative - that's part of it, but the gross generalizations some people throw out about "all" comics of today bug me.

I nominate this comment for "Most Ironic Post on the Intraweb"  :lol:

Some of Bendis stuff I have enjoyed (I liked Alias and Powers) but not everything. Civil War woudn't have been so bad if he didn't portray Iron Man the way he did. Tony came off blind to reality and borderline facist. I mean he made the entire thing about a registration act and ignored the fact that the person who really blew up that suburb escaped unpunished (until Wolverine/Namor). This either says a lack of understanding of Iron Man's character or his (Bendis) trying to hard to make the story fit. As much as I hate Civil War and some of his other stories (Ultimate Spider-Man), he isn't as bad as people make him out to be. Plus he might have free reign over Marvel at the moment, but he doesn't run the entire show (good stories sneak through).

[Mowgli]

tommyboy: Personally I haven't seen Bendis misuse any words, but even if he has, he would be far from the first. It may have happened, I just didn't catch it.  And if he is comparing himself to Shakespeare, he's just being ridiculous. But many people let fame go to their heads and overate their own success. It's unfortunate, but very common.

As far as knowing what a story is, and telling them, Bendis does. You may not like the manner in which he does it, but it's still a story. It is "a fictional narrative that is shorter than a novel." Many people dislike the conversations that he goes into with such detail. Some like it. Either way, it's all part of the story he tells. Many people think his writing is too slow for the action filled world of comics, and it may be. But it's still a story.

I disagree that mentioning work yet to be written is devoid of any value. This is a medium that is continuous. What is currently written is often based heavily on what has already been written. Other times, it is based on what is going to be written. Many issues and plots in comics are intended to set up another story or plot. Who's to say that isn't what is going on here? And I apologize if I got caught up in your wording, I just don't like anyone telling someone else they can't argue their point or state their opinion. A cup of coffee has no bearing on a comic book, but the continuous story that is part of, does.

I never said anyone couldn't post their ideas about comics. You are changing the subject there. I asked why would anyone waste their time complaining about something they specifically said they didn't care about? That's all. I never said or hinted that they shouldn't post. Those are your inferences.

"In fact your complete lack of contrary factual or critical arguments to counter my opinions just makes me more certain that I am right."

I don't even know where to start with that statement. You are stating an opinion. You are not right. You are not wrong. You are stating a belief or a view, not a fact that can be proven. Everyone has their own opinions and you can't disprove one with facts. And I have presented viable critical arguments. The fact that you disagree with them doesn't make them less valid. I believe your opinions are valid and are your own, I simply disagree with them. But I disagree most with the absolute way in which you are arguing for your opinion. It's just an opinion, like the rest of us.

[JKCarrier]

But what has he done that's worse than what many other writer's have done in the past? Retconning? That's so bad? That's what Cable, Bishop and Deadpool are practically based on.

Saying "It's no worse than Cable" is not exactly a ringing endorsement, now is it? "Gee, influenza gets such a bad rap. It's not as bad as the bubonic plague!"  ;)

Like John Byrne's genius idea to destroy another writer's work. He had Reed Richards wake up at the beginning of an FF comic, stating, "what a nightmare", dismissing the entire last storyline as just a dream. In my opinion, THAT'S bad writing.

Yes it is. But I'm not sure how the existence of other bad writers magically causes Bendis to be good.

Who knows, maybe the next storyline WILL be better and make sense of this choice for the Beyonder.

How long are we supposed to wait? How many bad, unenjoyable comics are we required to purchase before we're allowed to say, "That's not a good comic"?

If you don't read comics anymore, then why waste your time complaining about something you aren't even interested in?

Probably because they still have a fondness for the characters, and they'd still be buying the comics if they weren't so poorly written.

[Mowgli]

Cable and Deadpool compared to influenza and bubonic plague... we're on the same page there.  :)

I never wanted to make a case for Bendis being good (magically or otherwise. I was making a case for him not being any worse than so many others that have written. There just seems to be so much venom around here for Bendis. From my experience, there has been much worse. The Beyonder is an example that makes a lot of sense to me. Secret Wars was alright, but the Beyonder wasn't so much a character as he was a story device. SWII was, in my opinion, just plain terrible. An omnipotent being shows up on Earth, wearing a Michael Jackson leather jacket and silly myllet hair cut to fight super heroes, because he doesn't understand humans. For me, that was just ridiculous. That's why this Illuminati story didn't ruin anything for me. So he's an Inhuman mutant? So what? He was headed nowhere as a character. This at least offers minor validation as to why he would be in a human form, trying to understand humans. That's my opinion.

I think Bendis has his ups and downs like any other writer. I like some of it, and I don't like some of it.

[Ajax]

Hey I take offense to that Mowglie. Deadpool is a great character when Liefeld isn't involved. The Joe Kelly run on his solo series is proof enough. Cable on the other hand can go stick his tongue in a socket for all I care.

Here is a question if someone else wrote this other than Bendis would this topic even exist?