Heroes Season 2

[BentonGrey]

I still say his power is immortality, not healing per se.

[stumpy]

ips, I think we had a similar experiences regards injuries, etc. I was rarely sick and didn't have a trip to the emergency room until I put my hand through a plate glass window when I was 19. That said, however, I did get my share of bruises, cuts, and scrapes from playing, running, sports, experimenting with dad's power tools, etc. I can't see how anyone who isn't completely sedentary avoids all injury. And that's the premise of the movie; he's never had a scrape, a sniffle, anything. I remember thinking once that I had gone over two years without a cold/flu whatever, but I knew that it was unusual and it would have been phenomenal if I had never had one in my life.

As to Heroes, I don't know what's up with Kensei. I just think it unlikely that someone traveling the world in the sixteen hundreds (and apparently drunk on less-than-rare occasion) is going to have completely avoided all injury. (Also, keep in mind that the world wasn't designed for safety like it is today, with lots of padding and smoothly rounded corners.) Like I said, it's not physically impossible, but it isn't practically possible unless he was leading a very unusual existence, deserving of some background story. I have been leaning toward the theory that he only heals injuries that would (or maybe that do) kill him. I think we are on the same page with that.

Now Claire is a different story. She is shown as almost preternaturally clumsy. If she were that bad in real life, they would know her on sight at the emergency room. :lol: Maybe he kept it secret from Mrs. Bennet (possibly with Haitian help), but I would be shocked if HRG didn't know about Claire's ability a while before she started jumping off of scaffolding towers.

[Uncle Yuan]

Going back to the first episodes of the first season, it is clear that Claire didn't come into her power until essentially the point where the series started as she's still very much into the freak-out and experimenting mode.  I also suspect that her dad didn't know what she could do until then because he really didn't seem too nervous about her being discovered by the Company until the series was underway.

This timing holds true for most of the other characters.  We see DL's first escape.  Ted learns about his powers when he "kills" his wife (but not his parents when growing up? Unlikely.).  Likewise we witness Parkman and Hiro's first manifestations of their powers.  Isaac reacts as if being able to paint the future is something that just started happening.  All of these character are adults when their powers manifest.

[Conduit]

As to Heroes, I don't know what's up with Kensei. I just think it unlikely that someone traveling the world in the sixteen hundreds (and apparently drunk on less-than-rare occasion) is going to have completely avoided all injury. (Also, keep in mind that the world wasn't designed for safety like it is today, with lots of padding and smoothly rounded corners.) Like I said, it's not physically impossible, but it isn't practically possible unless he was leading a very unusual existence, deserving of some background story. I have been leaning toward the theory that he only heals injuries that would (or maybe that do) kill him. I think we are on the same page with that.

Now Claire is a different story. She is shown as almost preternaturally clumsy. If she were that bad in real life, they would know her on sight at the emergency room. :lol: Maybe he kept it secret from Mrs. Bennet (possibly with Haitian help), but I would be shocked if HRG didn't know about Claire's ability a while before she started jumping off of scaffolding towers.

In Fallout, Mr. Bennet says to Claire, "I knew before you knew, before you made those tapes with Zach."  So, yeah, he knew about it well before then.

Adding to the Kensei speculation, remember that he was trained in combat, including how to wield a sword.  He'd have to have gotten banged up a few times during that.  That's not to mention that actual fighting he did.  Even if he used a lot of dirty tricks, he can't have never been shot at or attacked with a sword.

Going back to the first episodes of the first season, it is clear that Claire didn't come into her power until essentially the point where the series started as she's still very much into the freak-out and experimenting mode.  I also suspect that her dad didn't know what she could do until then because he really didn't seem too nervous about her being discovered by the Company until the series was underway.

This timing holds true for most of the other characters.  We see DL's first escape.  Ted learns about his powers when he "kills" his wife (but not his parents when growing up? Unlikely.).  Likewise we witness Parkman and Hiro's first manifestations of their powers.  Isaac reacts as if being able to paint the future is something that just started happening.  All of these character are adults when their powers manifest.

According to Six Months Ago, Claire started healing fast six months ago (though at first it only heals a really bad wound completely in about a day).  Nathan also first flew back then, Peter had a precognitive dream, and Sylar took his first power, though due to the subtle nature of his ability it could have been active for a while without him noticing.  See above for when Bennet knew about Claire's power.

[stumpy]

I agree that most of the characters didn't first learn about their powers until adulthood (often well into adulthood). The exceptions being Micah, Molly, and Claire. And I definitely agree that it would make more sense if Claire just got her powers shortly before we saw her, which may be the case.

But, I'll mention again that, for the characters with active powers, those where you have to try and do something (or be surprised or goaded into doing something), they could have had their powers for a long time and just never tried to use them. I'm not saying that they did, just that we can't really say one way or the other for most of them that they didn't have their powers until we first saw them use their powers.

[D'oh! Conduit beat me to the punch.  :cool:]

[Conduit]

in the story where they introduce claire's bio-mom they all but say claire survived the fire as a baby because of her healing powers. mr bennet knew from then or strongly suspected. he was involved with the company from around the same time and requested to take care of the baby iirc. if it showed signs of abilities then he was supposed to report it and instead he hid it.

They only speculate that, and it's only from people who don't know what really happened.  According to the online comic, Claire survived the fire because Mr. Bennet ran into the apartment and carried her out.  She never needed to regenerate.  Indeed, Mrs. Bennet's line from episode 6 where she said that Claire had a cough as a baby may indicate that the smoke inhalation had a lasting effect.

[Conduit]

ok ... WE only speculate that. THEY suggest/infer it from the episode writing itself.

Until the online comic is somehow determined to be canon it should not be taken as such. And I won't personally since I know it'll never be considered canon since many people don't bother to extend their episodes by seeking out the comic online and limit their enjoyment to the tv episodes themselves.

In the commentary for Company Man, they say that they had originally wanted to put the scene where Mr. Bennet rescues an infant Claire in the episode itself, but they ended up not filming it and just putting it in the online comic.  So I imagine that one, at least, rates pretty high on the canon scale.

As for the question of how canon the comics in general are, over the summer Heroes Wiki interviewed several comic book artists and writers.  They talk a little about the interaction with the writers of the show.  You can read them here

[stumpy]

Watching the show, I thought they were implying same thing (that Claire survived the fire as an eighteen-month-old because of her powers), though it's ambiguous, since they don't show the details on camera. FWIW, however, the comic definitely shows HRG snatching her out of harms way before she was burned.

[spoiler]Either way, if Kensei had the same ability since sometime in his teens, I think he would have known about it by the time Hiro meets him. Of course, I guess I have no idea how old he is supposed to be then. He looks thirties to me, but I am at least guessing he is well out of his teens to be traveling the world and to have trained as a fighter.

BTW, just from the structure of the show standpoint, I think it would be more interesting if his power - whatever the actual details of it - somehow keeps him alive until the present day. It seems more likely to me, from a storytelling standpoint, that they would have invested all this air time developing this 1600s arc if the Kensei character has a role to play once Hiro ends up back with the other present-day specials.

(I guess they could get a similar effect just by having Hiro bring him forward in time when he comes back - say hello to another continuity nightmare! - but I think it's more interesting if he is effectively immortal. Plus, I don't want to have to suffer through a man-from-the-past, fish-out-of-water story arc.)[/spoiler]


[D'oh! Again. I have to learn to type faster! :)]

[Uncle Yuan]

OK, boys, typing is cheap.  Time to put your money where your keyboards are!

*slaps a v-buck on the desk* I got a dollar right here that says Kensei just manifested his power for the first time!

*slaps a second v-buck down next to it* And I got a second that his power is a "straight forward" healing factor!

[Adamence]

I would say Kensei's power isn't a "straight forward" healing factor.  The reason is simply because he hides and takes out his enemies from a distance instead of just fighting them himself.  The only reason I'd see him doing that is to keep people from knowing that he has that type of power.  If a samurai cuts him and then watches him heal, the samurai's going to know something...at least for as long as he lives.  But Kensei doesn't seem like the type to care if people knows.  He comes off as a guy who, knowing he had that power, would use it and let everyone know.  That said, I definitely think his power is healing mortal wounds...

and...

I definitely think that wasn't his first time doing it.  I'd guess that he'd done it once before.  The way I'd see it, he probably got "killed" at some point, came back to life wondering what happened, thinking it was a miracle or whatever (perhaps during his time in England, leading to a possible exile and thus explaining his trip to Japan?).  The reason he wouldn't fight is that this had only happened to him once and he seems cowardly enough to not want to test it.  Ask yourself, if you suspect you might have the power to heal mortal wounds because it may have happened to you once, is that the kind of thing you want to go out and test?  I know I certainly wouldn't.  He may simply think it was a one-time thing, or maybe he thinks it was a dream.  He wouldn't know whether he'll always do it or if the next time he's mortally wounded it won't.

[bredon7777]

Going back to the first episodes of the first season, it is clear that Claire didn't come into her power until essentially the point where the series started as she's still very much into the freak-out and experimenting mode.  I also suspect that her dad didn't know what she could do until then because he really didn't seem too nervous about her being discovered by the Company until the series was underway.

This timing holds true for most of the other characters.  We see DL's first escape.  Ted learns about his powers when he "kills" his wife (but not his parents when growing up? Unlikely.).  Likewise we witness Parkman and Hiro's first manifestations of their powers.  Isaac reacts as if being able to paint the future is something that just started happening.  All of these character are adults when their powers manifest.

Actually, that brings up something I've always wondered about Hiro.  We see him USE his powers for the first time (first, when he makes the clock run backwards, then when he teleports into the ladies room) but even at that time he is rock solid, 100% certain that he HAS the ability.

Doesn't anyone else wonder what caused him to think he had the ability in the first place?  Did he just wake up one morning and go- "Hey! I can bend the space/time continum" and start staring at clocks, or what?

Enquiring minds wanna know!

[stumpy]

Ha. As someone who has spend some mind-numbing time in a cubicle, I would venture that staring at the clock and wishing you could change it may be a pretty common hobby.  :mrgreen: Of course, most of my efforts were trying to move it forward faster, but anything would have been a relief.

Kind of reminds me of the movie Cashback, which I enjoyed.  ^_^

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

You realize there's only one way to settle this once and for all. . .

Keep watching! :thumbup:

[Uncle Yuan]

And keep those cards and letters!

[Bujin]

Actually, that brings up something I've always wondered about Hiro.  We see him USE his powers for the first time (first, when he makes the clock run backwards, then when he teleports into the ladies room) but even at that time he is rock solid, 100% certain that he HAS the ability.

Doesn't anyone else wonder what caused him to think he had the ability in the first place?  Did he just wake up one morning and go- "Hey! I can bend the space/time continum" and start staring at clocks, or what?

Enquiring minds wanna know!

I assumed that he somehow accidently triggered his powers at some point prior to Episode 1.  However, the first episode was the first time that he consciously caused it to happen.

[Conduit]

Hiro mentions that the subway train was 20 seconds late that morning, and blames it on his powers.  Apparently, being a Japanese train it was never late.  I doubt he'd conclude that without other evidence that he could bend the space time continuum, though.

[Adamence]

The reason is simply because he hides and takes out his enemies from a distance instead of just fighting them himself.  The only reason I'd see him doing that is to keep people from knowing that he has that type of power. 

how about the obvious reason? he hides and uses other people as decoys so if anyone gets killed it's the decoy. he doesn't know he can't be killed yet.

That was my point, but I guess it didn't come across quite how I'd hoped.  If he knew he had the power, he wouldn't hide, so I take hiding as being evidence he doesn't know he has the power.

[GhostMachine]

The reason is simply because he hides and takes out his enemies from a distance instead of just fighting them himself.  The only reason I'd see him doing that is to keep people from knowing that he has that type of power. 

how about the obvious reason? he hides and uses other people as decoys so if anyone gets killed it's the decoy. he doesn't know he can't be killed yet.

That was my point, but I guess it didn't come across quite how I'd hoped.  If he knew he had the power, he wouldn't hide, so I take hiding as being evidence he doesn't know he has the power.

Alternatively, maybe his powers aren't completely like Claire's and he actually feels pain or he heals from major injuries (like sword attacks) at a slower rate than she would.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

His shocked reaction, plus the trailers showing Hiro having to explain to him that he has an ability, tells me that this is the first time it has manifested.  I see no reason to read anything more into it than that.

[Protomorph]

Re: Peter

as of right now, there cannot BE an explaination, because he doesn't remember that he can't. Right now, it's a reflex, based on emotions and muscle reflexes. These emotions are not particularly connected to a specific person, necessarily. But he didn't heal from his beating until a caring female presence came along.

Once he regains his memory (maybe the Haitian will restore it) he'll question how he was able, and at that point, explainations will be given. Also, it occurs to me that he should have the Haitian's powers too.

[Conduit]

Once he regains his memory (maybe the Haitian will restore it) he'll question how he was able, and at that point, explainations will be given.

The Haitian can't restore memories.  He said as much in Godsend, and in one of the online comics he tries to do it and fails.  Of course, this is only of memories that he himself has removed, so I suppose it might work differently for different kinds of amnesia.

[Uncle Yuan]

When did Peter encounter the Hatian?  I don't recall.

[Protomorph]

When did Peter encounter the Hatian?  I don't recall.

If he did, it was in the interveining 4 months that came between the seasons. The first time since the explosion we see him, he is without memory, wearing the Hatian's necklace. Again, it's not somehting that has been explained in the show yet, but there are clues.

But, they have met before, in season 1, when Haitian and HRG showed up to tazer Peter and Claude. Don't know if there was enough proximity to get the power (though DL was farther away than that in the season 1 finale and he got his ability (as demonstrated in his escape from the chair)) or even if the power would need to be active at the time to be absorbed?


Perhaps, Peter sought out the Hatian to wipe his memory in the hopes that if he couldn't remember Ted, he couldn't explode again. Doesn't seem to be particularly effective, if that's the case, as he's using other powers.




RE: Maya and her Bro

Who else sees her power being that which kills the Big Bad. What would be the effect of a single person having both the power to cause and cure that ebola-esque power (ala Peter)?

[Conduit]

If Peter met the Haitian in the intervening 4 months, wouldn't the Haitian suppress Peter's powers and prevent him from absorbing his power?  We know from Five Years Gone that the Haitian's power suppression work on Peter, and have quite a range (has to be a few hundred feet if it extended across the entire floor).  Even if that wasn't an issue, its very nature might make it incompatible with Peter's abilities (ie it might suppress his own power whenever he tried to activate it).

RE: Maya and her Bro

Who else sees her power being that which kills the Big Bad. What would be the effect of a single person having both the power to cause and cure that ebola-esque power (ala Peter)?

According to the writers, Peter can only use one power at a time, so it's a question of whether he'll be able to deactivate Maya's power, then activate Alejandro's to repair the damage he's done.  Based on his experience with Ted's power, I wouldn't be too confident in his ability to do that.

[Conduit]

Another installment of the weekly interview series Behind the Eclipse has been released here.  Some spoilers.  My comments are below.

[spoiler]
I'm really disappointed in the writers.  From some of their answers, they sound like they haven't thought ahead at all.  Concerning Peter using his powers despite his amnesia, they simply say "Peter has learned and will continue to learn that's it's more about his heart than his memory."  Except he hasn't learned that.  He specifically said he needed to remember the person and we were never shown anything that indicated he might have been wrong.

Later, they were asked about whether they were concerned about Peter getting too powerful.  They said that they were, but they have no plan to deal with it and are simply having fun with the challenge that it presents to write.

That wouldn't be that bad, but they then said "we can just dig up whatever the heck gave him that scar in the future," indicating that they have no idea how he got that scar. :banghead:  That's right, not only did they not know how it happened when they introduced it, but now, in the next season, nearly 20 episodes later (much more than that as far as the writers are concerned), they still haven't come up with anything to explain it.  And they don't have any plans to unless they happen to come up with a storyline they think might benefit from tying into that.
[/spoiler]

[Talavar]

That is kind of depressing that the writers aren't taking the time to really plan ahead.  I mean, it's good to stay flexible, but they should at least have some idea where all this is going.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Yeah, I just read the whole thing and was equally disappointed.  I've come to expect more of the writers than that.

I also am getting tired of their snarky attitude, and was outraged at the ignorance of the writers at the one question they asked.

[stumpy]

Personally, I will take this as another lesson that the writers for shows don't necessarily plan ahead very much. Part of that is understandable for a show they couldn't be sure would be renewed when they started up with it.

But, I take as a consequence that we can expect them to use any loophole they can find when trying to reconcile issues that come up regarding the use or portrayal of the characters' powers. In other words, if we are going to try to pin down how this or that power works, we have to be careful about what we conclude from what's been shown and recognize that, even when some theory might explain how something works, it still might not be the only way and they might retroactively choose whichever way gives them more wiggle room.

BTW, just to be fair, there are only a handful of writers and many thousands of relatively "hardcore fans" and many of us are paying closer attention to what happens on screen than the writers. And we're often just smarter (that's not an insult to the writers, just a consequence of our larger numbers). A group like FR is sort of a writer's nightmare because we are bright; we are sort of experts in the field (as comic book fans); and we are nit-pickers.  :rolleyes: To me - and I think to most of us here - it's important to start out with a consistent concept of what's going on under the hood with the special abilities and to stick to that when writing the stories. But, it's also true that they need to get twenty-odd episodes written and filmed every season, so they aren't going to be able to catch every detail and it's not really worth their time to "fan-proof" every episode.

[bredon7777]

Wow..that was just..really, really bad. Very dissapointing.  :(

[Talavar]

So, new episode just aired, and I've got to say that I'm a little disappointed...
[spoiler]
...first that Candice is dispatched so quickly after being reintroduced, and then that Sylar is apparently being set up to be the same old boogy-man he was last season.  If they're aren't going to do anything new with the character, he should have just died at the end of last season.  At least he had help to survive his stab wound, it wasn't just a case of villain super-toughness.  I also fail to see how a stab wound would make him lose his acquired powers, that just seems like a lazy way to hit the reset button on the character.

Also bothering me: Nikki wanting to be "cured," and trying to get a "normal" life for her son.  It's just a tired motivation/plot idea in this genre.  Claire got over the whole creep-factor of flyboy peeping on her pretty quickly as well.  Plague-girl and Cure-boy are boring me, and Peter refusing to look in his I.D. box was silly.  His use of the force, plus the fact that they realized a regenerative character couldn't keep a tattoo did make me smile though, and we've seen him use two powers at once as of now - healing & TK.
[/spoiler]