Wonderman beats the snot out of Sentry? Yes, says USAgent's hero file

SingleMalt · September 20, 2007, 05:26:11 PM

I really like Simon but could he do this?

AfghanAnt · September 20, 2007, 06:16:52 PM

No.

USAgent · September 20, 2007, 07:49:17 PM

Wonderman must of gotten lucky, I dont see how this:

Wondy's hero file:
[spoiler]------------------------------------------------------------
Hero File: avenger wonderman
------------------------------------------------------------

Info:
File Type: FFv3R
Mesh: library\characters\male_muscular_tall\character.nif
Skin: Wonderman C6
Material: energy
Weight: 170 lbs
AI: CGenericHero
Voice:

Stats:
Strength: 8 Incredibly Strong
Speed: 6 Extremely Fast
Agility: 5 Very Agile
Endurance: 8 Incredibly Hardy
Energy: 5 Very Powerful

Attributes:
Flier
Temperature Control
Solid Skeleton
Strange Visitor
Radioactive

Powers:
punch (Melee):
DamageType: Crushing
Magnitude: High
Energy Point Cost: None
Stun: Low
Knockback: Medium
Swiftness: Normal
Arc: No Arc
Level: 3
Animation Name: melee
Attached FX Name: order_punishment

ionic jawbuster (Melee):
DamageType: Crushing
Magnitude: Very High
Energy Point Cost: Low
Stun: High
Knockback: High
Swiftness: Normal
Arc: No Arc
Level: 4
Animation Name: melee_3
Attached FX Name: supercollider_crushingleap
Power Flags: Up Knockback

ion body (Passive Defense):
Block Type:
Success Rating: Occasional
Level: 6
Animation Name:
Attached FX Name:
Damage Blocked: Mystical
Acid
Radiation
Crushing
Piercing
Energy
Electrical
Cold
Fire
Defense Flags: Always Active
Attacks Blocked: Melee
Ranged
Area
Direct[/spoiler]

can beat this

Sentry hero file
[spoiler]------------------------------------------------------------
Hero File: mh-sentry
------------------------------------------------------------

Info:
File Type: FFv3R
Mesh: library\characters\The_Sentry_REN\character.nif
Skin: standard
Material: stone
Weight: 170 lbs
AI: CGenericHero
Voice:

Stats:
Strength: 8 Incredibly Strong
Speed: 6 Extremely Fast
Agility: 7 Extraordinarily Agile
Endurance: 7 Extraordinarily Hardy
Energy: 7 Extraordinarily Powerful

Attributes:
Flier
Temperature Control
Solid Skeleton
Strange Visitor
Physical Resistance

Powers:
punch (Melee):
DamageType: Crushing
Magnitude: High
Energy Point Cost: None
Stun: None
Knockback: Medium
Swiftness: Fast
Arc: No Arc
Level: 3
Animation Name: melee
Attached FX Name: supercollider_massivepunch

massive combo (Melee):
DamageType: Crushing
Magnitude: Very High
Energy Point Cost: Medium
Stun: Medium
Knockback: Low
Swiftness: Fast
Arc: No Arc
Level: 2
Animation Name: melee_3
Attached FX Name: supercollider_massivepunch

blazing speed (Special):
Special Type: Sprint
Energy Point Cost:
Level: 2
Animation Name: run
Attached FX Name: bullet_sprint

body armor (Passive Defense):
Block Type:
Success Rating: Occasional
Level: 2
Animation Name: active_defence
Attached FX Name: sky_king_bulletproof
Damage Blocked: Acid
Radiation
Crushing
Piercing
Energy
Electrical
Cold
Fire
Defense Flags: Always Active
Attacks Blocked: Melee
Ranged
Area
Direct

extreme blinding light (Ranged - Beam):
DamageType: Blind
Magnitude: Extreme
Energy Point Cost: Medium
Stun: None
Knockback: None
Velocity: Fast
Range: Medium
Accuracy: Extreme
Level: 2
Animation Name: ranged_3
Attached FX Name: white_atomic_beam

burning light generation (Ranged - Beam):
DamageType: Heat
Magnitude: Extreme
Energy Point Cost: Medium
Stun: None
Knockback: Medium
Velocity: Normal
Range: Medium
Accuracy: Extreme
Level: 2
Animation Name: ranged_4
Attached FX Name: dazzler_photon_ray

crushing blow (Melee):
DamageType: Crushing
Magnitude: Very High
Energy Point Cost: low
Stun: Medium
Knockback: High
Swiftness: Fast
Arc: No Arc
Level: 3
Animation Name: melee_12
Attached FX Name: mechman_wreckingball
Power Flags: Up Knockback

invunerabilities (Passive Defense):
Block Type: Normal
Success Rating: Almost Always
Level: 2
Animation Name:
Attached FX Name: microwave_absorbradiation
Damage Blocked: Acid
Radiation
Cold
Fire
Defense Flags: Always Active
Attacks Blocked: Melee
Ranged
Area
Direct[/spoiler]

The computer controled AI for Sentry must of been non existing

SingleMalt · September 20, 2007, 08:26:46 PM

Yep, them are the hero files I used. Wonderman just pawned Hercules too, three out of three matches. Simon is a beast kicking Sentry and Hercule's butts. I recreated their AIs and ran the matches again to be sure it wasn't faulty AI. Simon beat them both again.

BentonGrey · September 20, 2007, 09:43:19 PM

Weird, Sentry definitely looks stronger on paper. Very strange.

USAgent · September 21, 2007, 04:36:37 AM

Hmmm, I just noticed not everything transfered correctly with the "send to text" option with EZhero, like the power levels of the attacks. I still dont see how my Wondy's hero file beat Sentry, Wondy had less physical body armor and 2 melee attacks and they are both a single contact melee, while Sentry has the same strength and same damage amount with his melees as Wondy but Sentry has a killer 3 hit combo that Wondy dont have along with the extreme heat damage beam attack. The only thing that Wondy has more is one endurance point, but Sentrys Psyical resistance attribute should more that make up for that. I'm gonna have to run those battles myself to see the outcomes!

My Herc hero file is also tougher that Wondy's (other than Herc has Flesh material)

Herc:
[spoiler]------------------------------------------------------------
Hero File: avenger hercules
------------------------------------------------------------

Info:
File Type: FFv3R
Mesh: library\characters\hercules_t\character.nif
Skin: herc1
Material: Flesh
Weight: 170 lbs
AI: CGenericHero
Voice:

Stats:
Strength: 8 Incredibly Strong
Speed: 5 Very Fast
Agility: 4 Agile
Endurance: 8 Incredibly Hardy
Energy: 5 Very Powerful

Attributes:
Jumper
Invulnerable (02 hp)
Fast Healing
Shake It Off
Volcanic

Powers:
punch (Melee):
DamageType: Crushing
Magnitude: Very High
Energy Point Cost: None
Stun: None
Knockback: Medium
Swiftness: Fast
Arc: No Arc
Level: 2
Animation Name: melee_6
Attached FX Name: supercollider_massivepunch

golden mace smash (Melee):
DamageType: Crushing
Magnitude: Very High
Energy Point Cost: Low
Stun: High
Knockback: Extreme
Swiftness: Fast
Arc: No Arc
Level: 4
Animation Name: melee_5
Attached FX Name: mechanical_smash

fist flurry (Melee):
DamageType: Crushing
Magnitude: High
Energy Point Cost: Medium
Stun: None
Knockback: None
Swiftness: Fast
Arc: No Arc
Level: 3
Animation Name: melee_10
Attached FX Name: supercollider_massivepunch

thick skin (Passive Defense):
Block Type: Normal
Success Rating: Rare
Level: 2
Animation Name: active_defence_2
Attached FX Name: microwave_absorbradiation
Damage Blocked: Acid
Radiation
Crushing
Piercing
Energy
Electrical
Cold
Fire
Defense Flags: Always Active
Attacks Blocked: Melee
Ranged
Area
Direct[/spoiler]

SingleMalt · September 21, 2007, 09:40:39 AM

I discovered how Wonderman was beating the crap out of Sentry and Hercs. His one punch Ionic Jawbuster, has a high knockback and it sends them straight up. When they land they get additional damage, sometimes up to 30 or more. Everytime Simon was hitting either Sentry or Hercs with this punch, it was like they where getting hit three or more times when they landed. I unchecked "knock up wards" and then restarted the matches. Now the fights were closer but Simon would lose almost everytime. This seems more accurate as Simon can hold his own against these two but almost always loses to them both.

I believed your original Thor hero file was for old Thor so I tweaked it a bit. I am using the Coipel new version of Thor Mesh by Greandier and Skin by Courtnall6. These guys are gods for making this as far as I am concerned. I made his body armor block 50% of the time instead of 25%. I gave Thor summon lightning, a projectile attack that on impact it spawns four. It does electrical damage at extreme magnitude. The cost of using this is medium energy. The attack is long with very high accuracy and it is homing. Here is Thor using it on Hercules http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/ThorfriesHercules.jpg
I also gave Thor mystic lightning blast. This is a electrical projectile attack using fx ball lightning. The attack spawns 4 on impact. Extreme damage, knock back and stun. High energy use and long range with high accuracy. This attack simulates channeling Thor's elemental lightning through Mjolnir amplifying it's power. Now if I can make Thor stunned after using it that would be great.

detourne_me · September 21, 2007, 10:10:26 PM

Quote from: SingleMalt on September 21, 2007, 09:40:39 AM
I am using the Coipel new version of Thor Mesh by Grenadier, Tommyboy and Beyonder, and Skin by Afghan Ant. These guys are gods for making this as far as I am concerned.

fixed.

stumpy · September 22, 2007, 07:49:20 AM

WM's passive defense means roughly that a third of the attacks on him do no damage at all. Over a long battle, that is effectively the same as if his opponents attacks were one or two magnitude levels lower.

BTW, I am curious what the XP costs are for the three HERO files (assuming that's what they are).

SingleMalt · September 22, 2007, 08:11:29 AM

Quote from: detourne_me on September 21, 2007, 10:10:26 PM
Quote from: SingleMalt on September 21, 2007, 09:40:39 AM
I am using the Coipel new version of Thor Mesh by Grenadier, Tommyboy and Beyonder, and Skin by Afghan Ant. These guys are gods for making this as far as I am concerned.
fixed.

Aww crap, I hate it when I don't give proper respect to people's works I am trying to compliment. Sorry about my mixup, hell, all you guys that contribute to the community are gods anyway.

USAgent · September 22, 2007, 04:59:39 PM

I just decides to try out the Wondy vs Sentry battle my self, and I had the Sentry beating Wondy hands down (using my same hero files) Wondy used a hero point to heal one time and Sentry never had to use one at all, he was down to about 1/4 health on when Wondy went down for the last time. Sentry used his blinding beam a little too much but he still smoked him. Sentry also has the high (up) knockback punch as Wondy. Both fought pretty aggressively but in the end it was Wonderman begging for it to end:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/USAgent/sentry.jpg

The prestiege cost for these two are Wonderman: 46,636 (29,000 just for his 35% active defense) and Sentry was 64,000. I have to admit I never ever look at the prestiege at all when making hero files though.

SingleMalt · September 22, 2007, 05:50:09 PM

Strange, it's Wonderman that kicks arse when I put these two against each other using the same hero files.

stumpy · September 22, 2007, 10:04:23 PM

I assume you guys are using the RR mode where you pick an empty character for the squad and then separate WM and Sentry (or whoever) with the -------- character on the enemies list? That will be an important factor.

SingleMalt · September 23, 2007, 03:53:21 PM

I don't know what the heck RR mode is but I am using skirmish watch mode. I never control the characters, I only watch the fight and control the camera.

stumpy · September 23, 2007, 04:36:20 PM

"RR mode" == "Rumble Room mode". I just meant which of the several types of play you can choose for the Rumble Room were you using. I figured you were using a watch mode.

So, to confirm, both characters (WM and Sentry) are in your "enemies" list, right? That is, you don't have one as a squad member (even if you don't control him yourself) and the other on the enemies list. I ask because there are cases where the game treats the characters differently depending on how they are brought into the game.

USAgent · September 23, 2007, 07:47:42 PM

Quote from: stumpy on September 22, 2007, 10:04:23 PM
I assume you guys are using the RR mode where you pick an empty character for the squad and then separate WM and Sentry (or whoever) with the -------- character on the enemies list? That will be an important factor.

Yes, that is exactly how I do my "watch mode" rumble room matches. If I did pick one of the characters for the initial squad and the other for the enemies list, how would they act different? I always assumed that there health is calculated differently, but how else would they act different if I may ask?

BentonGrey · September 23, 2007, 08:12:33 PM

It's pretty much just the health and energy.

stumpy · September 24, 2007, 01:38:18 AM

I wish that were all. This goes back to a problem I brought up a while before FR went down, at the same time I described how the energy bug worked. (We fixed the energy bug via scripting and that fix is already in FFX, though. This bug may not be fixable via scripting, though.)

Many computer-controlled characters in the RR effectively use their powers as if they were bought at level zero. I don't know if that is just when using scripted AI or even with the built-in AI - from what I can tell it's the same. I don't know if it affects passive defenses or not, because the game seems to handle those differently. My recollection was that the same thing happened to built-ins as to customs, but it's been a long time since I looked into this. The same thing may even be true in the campaign! I actually suspect the real difference is whether the character has been recruited (or maybe added to the campaign database); there may be a bug that doesn't assign levels to character powers until they are one of the campaign characters.

But, for example, if you create a plain character with strength 4 and give him a melee with very high magnitude bought at level 5, he should average 40 damage per hit. And, he will if you command him. But, if you let the AI run him, he will average about 15 damage per hit, just as if a very high magnitude power were bought at level 0.

The reason I asked about this was just to see if anyone had noticed a different effect. I don't think it really matters if the character is on the squad for watch mode matches or on the enemies list, but I was curious.

SingleMalt · September 24, 2007, 03:45:18 AM

Quote from: stumpy on September 22, 2007, 10:04:23 PM
I assume you guys are using the RR mode where you pick an empty character for the squad and then separate WM and Sentry (or whoever) with the -------- character on the enemies list? That will be an important factor.

I am confused by this. How would this work as two characters on the same team would not fight each other. What is an empty character? I assume it is one with no stats? I just pick a character for the squad and then another for the enemy and let them go at it. I play at hard level so their health levels are about even too.

USAgent · September 24, 2007, 04:34:13 AM

Singlemalt, for your squad (the first 4 character slots) choose the ----------- as the character, and then on the next screen where you choose your enimies pick your two characters you want to do battle, with the ----------- seperating them so it looks like this:

Wonderman
------------
Sentry

That way they will battle each other and there wont be any advantages or disadvantages for each character.

You can have multiple teams/characters fighting each other that way for instance:

Wonderman
-----------
Sentry
----------
xmen cyclops
xmen jean grey
xmen beast
----------
JLA Superman
JLA Batman

Once the rumble room starts the game would treat that lineup as 4 teams who fight each other

BentonGrey · September 24, 2007, 08:49:39 AM

Stumpy.........really? I've noticed some wildly different fluctations in powers, but I wasn't quite sure what was the cause. I suppose that makes sense. Man, that's freakin' annoying.

stumpy · September 24, 2007, 10:20:14 AM

Yeah, it's a real annoyance. Keep in mind that Irrational originally sort of added the Danger Room as an afterthought, so they were really only concerned about campaign play. In the campaign, the characters on the team work properly. The fact that the minion and villain characters don't isn't a big deal because it's only the difference of not being at level one or three, since those characters never advance anyway.

My guess is that IG doesn't know about the problem (I don't recall if we ever told them) and even we never noticed it until well after FFvT3R came out.