Wonder Woman, Flash and the Justice League of America

[Shogunn2517]

 THEY ACTUALLY ARE GOING TO CAST WHO I WANTED THEM TO CAST FOR ONCE!

I couldn't help but to cheer outloud for what I heard.

For those of you who don't know, but for a while feature films for both Wonder Woman and The Flash have been brewing for franchises, but nothing has actually come of it, particularly with the Flash.  Wonder Woman does have a history and was on track for production thanks to in part to Joss Wheldon who was picked to write and direct a film.  Anyway, to make a long story short, after several attempts to hammer down a script, he was finally unable and he and Warner Bros. decided to go separate ways.  So back to square one, Warner Bro. did buy a draft to keep it out of circulation, but off the heels of not just the success of Batman Begins, but the resurrection of Superman and Whedon's attempt, recently Warner Bro. has decided to fast-track a big screen production of the Justice League of America.  And no, not with Fire, Ice, Atom and a retarted GL, but the big players, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern and the Martian Manhunter.  With this movie, they were hoping to spinoff franchises for the Flash and Wonder Woman.  Now, because of this movie and the involvement of Christian Bale and Brandon Routh in their own DC franchises, they have declined participation and the roles of Superman and Batman will be recast.

But they recently announced that they are close to signing one person who I knew would be good for the role:

http://www.mania.com/56100.html

And what's more?  They've talked about a possible plot to the film:

http://movieblog.ugo.com/index.php/movieblog/more/bhc_exclusive_spoiler_details_on_the_jla_movies_storyline/

Although, I still have my reservations for a JLA movie of this magnatude, I'm curious to see what they do.

[Glitch Girl]

Sounds almost like they may be using the "Tower of Bable" storyline (I always liked that one)

I will keep my fingers crossed on this one.  Hollywood's screwed up before, but sometimes something good happens.

[steamteck]

However its just plain stupid not to use the current Superman and Batman ( Routh and Bale) IMO. Unless they can find someone significantly better because of their recent identification with the roles.

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

However its just plain stupid not to use the current Superman and Batman ( Routh and Bale) IMO. Unless they can find someone significantly better because of their recent identification with the roles.

...the big players, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern and the Martian Manhunter.  With this movie, they were hoping to spinoff franchises for the Flash and Wonder Woman.  Now, because of this movie and the involvement of Christian Bale and Brandon Routh in their own DC franchises, they have declined participation and the roles of Superman and Batman will be recast.

Kinda sounds like Brandon & Bale turned down appearing in the Justice League movie. Perhaps a bad move on their part or ill tidings for the film and the direction it may take. Also, depending on how they portray Batman & Superman in the movie the adaptations could be very different than the ones in their own films making them seem off in a JLA movie.

[Uncle Yuan]

Not to mention the financial and professional aspects of going from leading man to ensemble member.

[The Hitman]

That's a decent- sounding storyline, if it does turn out to be the real one. Kinda like Brother Eye crossed with the "Tower of Bable" story arc (as GG said above). It may have some kind of hope for being decent.

[detourne_me]

it's gonna be ridiculous.
[spoiler]c'mon Redeye???  let's just call it the "Batman's an arse device" congrats to Bale for not going along with this show.  from previous reports i read.  it seemed as though Nolan and Bale wanted to finish their trilogy before the JLA movie was made,  but Routh was kind of indifferent. [/spoiler]

[BentonGrey]

I'm rather tempted to agree with DM and IPS.  I liked the Tower of Babel story over all, but I didn't particularly care for the whole 'Batman is a paranoid lunatic' part of it.  However, that being said, I think that is a TERRIBLE story to BEGIN the Justice League with.  It would be a much better idea to go with the White Martian invasion, a-la JLU, or any number of other stories.  If that is the storyline they are following, I can't say I blame Bale for not getting on board. 

[The Hitman]

However, that being said, I think that is a TERRIBLE story to BEGIN the Justice League with. 

Now THAT I can agree with. I'm gonna try to be optimistic, though. I love the Justice League too much to give up on the movie this early. I'm going to wait until I see a trailer before I... admit this movie's a bad idea.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I don't think that's a bad story.  Batman doesn't have to be paranoid to do this, just practical.  I mean ow many times have superheroes been possessed or gone rogue?  All the time.

That being said, you guys are right,  it isn't a good story to begin a movie franchise reaching people who may not know the characters at all.

[Mr. Hamrick]

just a quick note on Bale, the reason he is not doing the JLA movie comes down to a few simple things:

A) He is committed to doing three Bat film for WB at this point.  Bale's commitment to those films also is a commitment to Christopher Nolan and his vision for those three Bat movies.  Bale has basically implied that he might be willing to do it were they to wait till after the third Bat film with Nolan.

b) He wasn't impressed with the script that was pitched to him or what he saw of the script.


My personal opinion is that WB needs to do movies with at least the "Big 3" first and get them out there.  I would go as far as to say films with Green Lantern and Flash as well.  That way, you have them as established characters (for film purposes) and can introduce a few additional then get into the actual plot of the film.  Otherwise, you spend the first 20 - 30 minutes of the movie establishing characters at the very least.

[Uncle Yuan]

I don't think that's a bad story.  Batman doesn't have to be paranoid to do this, just practical.  I mean ow many times have superheroes been possessed or gone rogue?  All the time.

The problem is, with this being the beginning of a new franchise (presumably), with the casual viewing public being introduced to three or so heroes for the very first time, there will be no opportunity for the good guys to get possessed or go bad.  This plot will kind of come out of left field.  I agree that a world-threatening event would be the best place to start.  Brainiac or some such would be a better place to start.

[GogglesPizanno]

There are some ideas that are just too big for a film.
120 minutes requires you to keep the focus narrow and scale big, or scale small and focus more broad.
This type of ensemble comic book movie is huge in both scale and focus.

Even the X-Men films while big ensemble comic book movies, were really character films focused on one or two characters (ala wolverine/magneto) and the BIG stuff was really secondary. It had the advantage of having a bunch of characters that to the general public are nobodies, so you could shortchange them, or relegate them the fringes and nobody really was bothered (aside from comic fans).

Justice league is basically all the big guns of general comic book pop culture vying for screen time.
Its too big for a character film. Unless you focus on just one or two of the characters, but the Batman Superman films already do that for their respective characters, and what average moviegoer is gonna be that interested in a justice league movie that shortchanges Batman or Superman to showcase wonder woman or the flash? Thats like going to see an Indiana Jones Movie and pushing him to the side to focus the film on Markus Brody.

Its like Mr. Hamrick said. They need to establish these characters outside of a justice league movie.

I just don't think its gonna work.

[stumpy]

I tend to agree that a plot hinging on one of the seven not trusting the others has some big disadvantages for the first movie in a likely trilogy. It seems like the better progression is to establish the reasons that these disparate guys can work together in the first film, maybe with a hint that not all is sweetness and light behind the scenes. Then add a fly to the ointment like a member keeping secret data on IDs and weaknesses on his peers because he thinks they may go rogue in a second or third film. Having all that complicating baggage in the first film makes it all the harder for the remainder of the series.

As far as speculation goes, I have to wonder if the Justice League producers really wanted to commit to paying the salaries for Bale (and Routh, I guess) for a trilogy of JL films, especially since that those guys may not really want to do a total of six films as the same character. Maybe the approach is to get new people for the roles and hope that they might continue the Batman and Superman franchises after this trilogy is done, by which time the Bale Batman and Routh Superman trilogies will be finished.

Whatever the reasons, I will miss Bale as Batman. I think he was excellent. Of course, in an ensemble piece like this, it may be that his talent for character studies wouldn't really shine through anyway. Regarding Routh not doing Superman - whatever. He was okay in Superman Returns, but I can't see where he adds anything to the role that a hundred other actors couldn't do just as well.

Jessica Biel as Wonder Woman? I like her (even aside from her callipygian value) and I think she can do action films, which I think is a real necessity for these roles. I also like Ryan Reynolds, though I worry that, though he has the requisite smart alec quality (I suspect half the population thinks he is Dane Cook anyway  :P), the Flash has sort of an innocence about him that I haven't seen in Reynolds' other work.

I am really curious who they cast for Stewart and Jonzz. Either of those could be a breakout role for someone.

[bredon7777]

I thought this was supposed to be done in some sort of rotoscoped animation?

<confused>

[Shogunn2517]

Thanks Hamrick for the clarification.  Yeah, Bale and Nolan weren't entirely too disinterested, they just thought the timing(and I agree) is bad and they wanted to wait until they are done with their third film.  Routh wasn't totally against it.  In fact, he was interested(come on, he's a former unknown getting the role of Superman.  Like Jackman with Wolverine, he's having fun and the role made him).  Unfortunately, contractually he would probably not be able to participate.

However, there are a couple of things to remember.  First of all, with the (slight- ok, full) exception of Fantastic Four: ROTSS, most of these films has stayed away from apace/alien sci-fi themes, despite being dependent on them, like with spider-man's symbiote and Dark Phoenix.  It's because of that and the fact they want to go with something that can at least seem plausable.  Lex Luthor, plausable.  Doomsday, not plausable.  Big spooky cloud, plausable.  Galactus, not plausable.  Split personality, plausable.  Inter-galactic alien, not plausable.  I would assume in this case, big brother is plausable and Apokalipian God is not plausable.

Secondly, we should keep in mind the fact that they are planning to spin franchises with Wonder Woman and the Flash from this film.  And because Superman and Batman already have strong franchises, you can bet that when they do focus on a particular character it won't be Superman or Batman.  If anything, I wouldn't doubt they are more than plot devices.  They may be a role, but the film, I'm willing to bet, will focus on Wonder Woman and the Flash will be big as well.  You know kind of like in a Justice League episode, two or three characters will be featured, but the others are there, but the two or three carry the story.

And don't worry, the Dark Knight is still being released as well as a likely third.

[BentonGrey]

I don't know Shogunn, movies like Independence Day, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Starship Troopers, and War of the World were all successful movies that hinged on an alien invasion.  I think you could EASILY do something big like that in a JLA movie, provided you built up to it properly.  In fact, I think it's probably one of the better ways to approach it.  Then, we get to see the various characters individually, as they begin to unravel the conspiracy, finally banding together to rescue MM (or SOMETHING) and then you have your big, epic fight at the end.

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

What is with the whole SciFi element & space stuff being so hard to swallow in these movies anymore? It doesn't make any sense to me at all. Like BentonGrey said several blockbusters have used alien invasions or alien presences and have not had masses of people storming out going "Oh I can't possibly buy that I am out of here!"

The irony is that the plot points in these movies that have been so problematic are usually a direct result of the changes and playing to the audience like they are preschoolers... retarded... brain damaged... amnesiac preschoolers on heavy medication.

I can handle the leap of logic & suspension of disbelief of "it is an alien/tech from the stars" a lot easier than whatever random terrestrial origin Hollywood comes up with. It also often damages the story in that a lot of these things mystique comes from their otherwordly almost magical qualities. When you change them into "Oh it IS just a weather balloon haha!" a lot of them lose that quality becoming rather mundane.

I gotta concur you really need something big going down for a movie of JLA caliber. Otherwise you kinda sit there thinking... did they really need Superman & Green Lantern tagging along to stop that villain or interrupt a bank robbery?

It would be kinda nice to get a whole new story rather then watch them butcher something already out there. Chances are it might very well be unrecognizable before they are done anyways, why not do something new.

[Mr. Hamrick]

here's my take on the whole sci-fi plot thing:

Bringing all these heroes together to fight an alien invasion is perfectly plausible and would be a great plot for a movie.  Rather that alien invasion was from Apoklypse (or however its spelled) and led by Darkseid, or rather it was Starro The Conqueror.  In fact, I think it would be ideal . . .   
IF

IF the big three at least had established franchises.

However, with the current depiction of Batman in the Nolan films, it would be a stretch perhaps to include Batman in that type of battle without some sort of explanation as to why he is getting involved.  There is nothing in the Nolan established universe that suggests anything "hero universe wise" outside Gotham.  NOW HAVING SAID THAT:  It would be perfect to do from the direction of "The Smallville Universe" where the heroes were introduced in the course of a season and teamed up with Clark later on. 

As for the casting, I've no problem with Biel playing Wonder Woman and Reynolds as The Flash . . . AS LONG AS THEY WERE SCREEN TESTED.  I'm sorry, I'm of the personal opinion that regardless of who the actor is that he or she should audition or screen test for the role depending on the circumstances.  Especially when the character is something like a comic character or beloved literary figure.  I'm not talking a cold audition, I'm talking the actor being sent the sides and then filmed acting as the character in a scene (minus all the things like a set).  It's not always how it works but I can dream, right?
 

[zuludelta]

What is with the whole SciFi element & space stuff being so hard to swallow in these movies anymore? It doesn't make any sense to me at all. Like BentonGrey said several blockbusters have used alien invasions or alien presences and have not had masses of people storming out going "Oh I can't possibly buy that I am out of here!"

I think the reticence of filmmakers to include "alien threats" and whatnot into their superhero films is because it ratchets up the need for suspension of disbelief from the audience. Alien invasion films like "War of the Worlds" or "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" worked because the audience only had to deal with that one element of the fantastic (the idea that aliens exist and that they want to conquer Earth). Throwing in aliens (or supernatural/horror-type threats, or whatever) alongside superpowered beings flying around in long underwear might be too much for a viewer who isn't originally a comic book fan to take seriously (and by seriously, I mean "seriously to the extent that their juxtaposition doesn't become too much of a distraction from the main narrative").

That's why you don't see too much overt mixing of genres in genre fiction and film (or at least you don't see too much of it done well). Each genre carries its own set of preconceptions and baggage, and too many disparate elements can come in to muddy up the viewer's/reader's expectations (don't get me wrong, most readers and viewers like surprises, but only if they follow some sort of logic based on what they perceive to be "the rules" of the genre).

I mean, making a good superhero movie by itself is already a considerable task, making a good superhero movie that also doubles as a decent alien invasion movie would be a much taller order. Also, a large part of the director's job is to predict how the audience might react to certain on-screen elements... it's already hard enough to gauge mainstream audience reaction to superheroes without throwing them a curveball in the form of White Martians.     

[crimsonquill]

I thought this was supposed to be done in some sort of rotoscoped animation?

<confused>

That was the original concept because it would allow them to use the voice actors they wanted and be less limited by the special effects budget of a live action movie. HOWEVER the upcoming actors guild strike in 2009 is forcing them to push ahead many projects and revamp others because they rather have the majority of acting work in the can before that event happens. They rather have dozens of movies in SFX post-production while the majority of Hollywood is holding it's breath for the resolution of those talks. I would wonder why wouldn't low budget non-Hollywood B-Films makers use that time to push out their movies to big movie chains when they are usually stuck to small local theaters and that one single multiplex room reserved for kiddie flicks and documentaries.

They want to have Justice League in reserve for 2009 as their big budget live action superhero peice for the year and you will see lots of news blurbs about it over the next year as they put casting and filming on the fast track.

- CrimsonQuill

[steamteck]

[

Kinda sounds like Brandon & Bale turned down appearing in the Justice League movie. Perhaps a bad move on their part or ill tidings for the film and the direction it may take. Also, depending on how they portray Batman & Superman in the movie the adaptations could be very different than the ones in their own films making them seem off in a JLA movie.

In Bales's case you're right. Routh they told him his Movies were on indefinite hold until after Justice League last I heard. I have wanted a JLA movie for years if they do  a "tower of Babel" I will be soooo annoyed. If I was as stupid about concepts on my job as studios , I would be fired so fast!

[DMenacer]

The movie sounds possible and for Batmans part in it. Couldn't it be his use of his detective work that finds out about the aliens? When he figures out that it might be a possible invasion so he gets in touch the the rest of the JLA. Seeing how he's not as super as the rest of them, he stays up in the Watch Tower satilite and corrinates the JLA attacks.

[Talavar]

An alien villain or invasion is a harder sell in Spider-man or X-men, because there's nothing inherently space-related for either of those characters.  That isn't true of Superman, and I would argue that any movie that features him prominently can more easily get away with other aliens coming to earth (in the eyes of the general public) because the movie already has one alien, him.  Superman is inherently tied to space travel & life on other planets (and aliens having super-powers), so it's a better fit, and easier for a non-comic reading public to buy into.

[Uncle Yuan]

Not mention Green Lantern - all those LBMs running around (little blue men).  Unless they're going to give him the golden age/Alan Scott origin.

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

You make a good point Zulu but like others have mentioned is the Suspension of disbelief really so massive strained by an alien invasion when major characters in the film already have alien backgrounds? After all like the last few posts brought out, Superman is an alien and many of these DC characters are space travelers and planet hoppers already. For them I don't think it would be nearly as much of a strain. However as Talavar said doing this for Spider-Man or X-men in film would be a much big stretch, you could get away with one alien or something appearing but not a whole sci fi esque invasion.

I think it would work especially easily in a JLA movie if they use Martian Manhunter or work him into the plot early on somehow. You already have two aliens on the team outright and if the Green Lantern is there you have a character who got his powers from aliens.

Still I think the big issue is what Zulu mentioned, pulling off a good superhero movie & an alien invasion. You would need elements of how the invaders have really messed with Earth to make them seem ominous and like a real threat. You'd also need to pull of reactions of the man on the street as they attack various places as well. This means a director would need to be capable of handling not only character driven interactions (to make the league members feel real & lifelike not flat and 1 dimensional), action sequences, war scenes & set up (the invasion itself after all), and large scale panic & crow scenes with many extras as well. Still, any threat that should require the JLA's attention would need to be large enough to cause that kind of a reaction anyways.

One of my big questions is... will this be a full on origin movie like in Spider-Man & Fantastic Four? Or will the characters & league already be established? Will it open with a quick flashback then come into modern times filling in further details later on instead of devoting the movie to it ala the first Blade movie or use some other way of doing it?

[GogglesPizanno]

I still contend the whole thing is way too big for a single movie. All these discussion about alien invasions and character origins are just emphasizing the point (to me anyway).

Maybe if it were a HBO miniseries....

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Thanks Hamrick for the clarification.  Yeah, Bale and Nolan weren't entirely too disinterested, they just thought the timing(and I agree) is bad and they wanted to wait until they are done with their third film.  Routh wasn't totally against it.  In fact, he was interested(come on, he's a former unknown getting the role of Superman.  Like Jackman with Wolverine, he's having fun and the role made him).  Unfortunately, contractually he would probably not be able to participate.

I'd like to clear up a misconception here.  Both Bale and Routh have signed 3-movie contracts, and an optional ensemble film is already built into the contracts as being the studio's option to do instead of a starring role film.  So if the actors are being allowed to refuse, then it's because the studio is giving them the option.  They have their own reasons for wanting to use other actors.  Their contracts oblige them to do the movie if the studio actually insists.

[steamteck]

More on Routh. He just said in an interview he would enjoy putting on the cape for Justice League and is interested but WB has still mum on it to him. Their take seems to be JLA is in a different world than the individual franchises so different actors are OK. Bale on the other hand did not like the script ( Makes you wonder how Batman is portrayed)

[Uncle Yuan]

And so far the varous DC movies seem to exist completely independantly from one another.  Marvel movies at least reference one another in passing (I'm pretty sure Spider-man has alluded to Dr. Strange and Hulk), but they too are pretty isolated.  Working Batman and Superman into an integrated universe might not be too hard, but I think it would be tough to go from Batman to JL world with its implication of a large and coherent enough hero and villain scene to justify forming the JL in the first place.