Does your Hulk beat Superman 8 out of 10?

[SingleMalt]

In my matches Supes can deliver the punishment http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/HulkvsSuperman.jpg
but if he allows the Hulk to get a breath, Hulk's healing factor will patch him up and his anger will raise his strength enough to do this to Supes http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/hulkvssuperman2.jpg. Kal-el usually goes down in one or two punches if he lets the fight linger.

[Carravaggio]

Kal-el usually goes down in one or two punches if he lets the fight linger.

That seems pretty wrong to me dude.Superman can match and take the damage the Hulk can dish out and then some.

I hope this doesn't spill over into a vs. thread, but no, my superman wins 10/10 times.
Hulk just isn't fast enough to hit Supes, he can't catch him while he is flying, and Kal can wear the green guy down with heat vision and arctic breath from afar. Sometimes Hulk gets creative and throws cars etc. at Big Blue, but he just dodges it. You gotta remember Superman is incredibly fast, and can move at speeds so high the human eye cant even see him. Its said Superman's speed is second only to the Flash family characters. For every punch the Hulk gets off Kal gets three in. He can react fast enough to catch bullets from the air. I'll bet he can react fast enough to dodge the lumbering blows of the Hulk. I'm, going to suggest, without seeing it at all, that your Superman file is maybe a bit underpowered, but thats the great thing about this game, we can make the characters as we see them.

I have yet to see a scenario that would allow Hulk to win. Even with all his rage and his unstoppable nature, mindless or otherwise, he ends up being a big tough slow brick that lumbers around the battlefield trying to keep up with the Last Son of Krypton.

[jtharris86]

Yeah I agree with Carravaggio , and not just because Big Blue is my favorite SUPER HERO...okay okay maybe that has a little to do with it but come on he is Superman.

[SingleMalt]

Have you guys seen Superman/Doomsday? The beating that Kal-el took at the hands of Doomsday is the kind of beating Hulk would give him. Hulk's strength when angried enough would exceed Kal-el's and then some. His punches would seriously hurt Supes. Remember Hulk has Monstrous Invulnverability just below Kal-el's Unearthly. Combine that with Hulk's regenerating powers and it would take a hellava lot to put Hulk down. Hulk would regen almost as fast as Supes can hit him. I think my matches are pretty accurate from what we have seen in the comics and movies. If Supes really pours it on and doesn't let up Hulk goes down but if he gives him time to regen...well.

[wickerman]

It always seemed to me that Doomsday was a lot faster than the Hulk.  Moreover, I am not a huge fan of the way Superman/Doomsday went down.  Supes seemed to forget he was almost as fast as light as he usually does when writer poorly conceive a new villain.

At the end of the day, Superman can move MUCH faster than the Hulk can heal.    Thor and Iron Man have beaten the Hulk in the past and neither one of them even possess super speed nor do that have Supes' physical strength.  As much as I like the Hulkster, he has very little chance against Superman.  He isn't fast enough to hit him or avoid being hit by him.  Tougher than most, the Hulk still could not take an endless number of shots that most bricks in either universe could scarcely take one of.

Sentry would be more along Superman's speed and strength levels - or Gladiator.  Hulk is too much of a one trick pony to really compete. 

[bearded]

in the classic 'avengers special' by tommyboy, me playing the hulk beat the pc's superman, but only because i had thor on my side.  so, in the 'special' it took thor and hulk to beat superman, and thor was acting out of character, by hiding in the background and slamming superman with lighting bolts, thereby stunning superman long enough for hulk to smack him around.

[stumpy]

I have to agree with that Superman has a much more diverse arsenal than Hulk as far as concerns offensive weaponry. Even if Hulk is stronger as the battle continues and he gets angrier, Supes should be just as strong initially (if not stronger) and he can easily fly out of range and let Hulk cool off as needed. And, the superspeed should be a huge factor. I don't try for perfect accuracy in my HERO files because I want them to be playable, and I still end up with a Clark costing over 30000 CP. But, when I try for more accuracy, the most expensive power he gets is a multiple-contact melee that delivers almost as much damage per contact as his full power single-contact melee and uses one EP bar.

FWIW, as per wickerman, the Superman vs. Doomsday comic (and movie) encounter had to be pretty contrived. (Obviously, we can't simulate all aspect of the comics in the game, but a perfectly reasonable scenario in the comics would be for Clark to haul Doomsy into space, toss him, say, to Jupiter where he would be trapped, and call it a day.)

I think Clark should very rarely go down to any brute strength characters unless he is taken by surprise and kept stunned the whole time. He has no reason to stick to fisticuffs with any opponent who is equally strong and having him do so (as he did with Doomsday) isn't very realistic.

[SingleMalt]

I adjusted the hero files on Hulk and Superman and I think I have a much better representation of them now. I setup ten matches and Supes won 7 and Hulk 3. Here is how I gave Supes super reflexes for dodging
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/superreflexes.jpg. This seems to work really well, as Hulk swings and swings at Supes and he just dodges them. Here is Kal-el's stats http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/Supermanstats.jpg and his powers http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/supermanpowers.jpg. The Hulk's stat are http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/Hulkstats.jpg and his powers http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/hulkpowers.jpg. The three matches that Hulk won, he landed 300+ punches after his defense-mechanism kicked in. Superman's 50 invulnerability and physical resistance gives him great protection from physical harm but when the Hulk starts throwing 300+ punches, even Supes can't stand up to them. Superman lands around 10 punches to Hulk's two and if it wasn't for Hulk's regen powers he would go down in minutes.

[Carravaggio]

I gotta say i'm impressed with the changes, SM. It seems much closer to the real thing now, i especially like Hulks defense mechanism, very apt. I might have to make some changes to my version of ol' jade jaws...
(What Superman mesh is that, btw?)

[SingleMalt]

It's vx_superman by Vertex. The skin is from Courtnall6.

[XPTO]

Let me gues that skin is in the Toybox  :P.

[lugaru]

I think supermans super speed is way over rated. Simply put he dosent use it much in comics unless it is pre-emptive, which makes me think he has no reaction time. Seriosly the slowest brick who can hurt superman always does. Every strange energy ray hits him. Simply put either he's a god in the mind of fanboys and not so in the comics or I have to join the "every time he dosent win in the first pannel they are bad writers" gang.

That said superman will usually beat my hulk but my world war hulk needs tweaking, he fought off the current Justice League.

[stumpy]

I think the writers ought to just admit that they don't know how to write for a super-fast Superman and take the power away. They clearly lack either the talent or discipline to do it consistently, so they ought to quit cold-turkey. I agree that the stories where everyone and his crippled grandmother can creak out of their wheelchair and pop Superman on the nose are poorly written.

The problem is that once in a while they will show him using it and then it the obvious question becomes "Well, why didn't he use it last week against the Snail King, instead of getting his butt handed to him for ten minutes before luring SK into that salt mine?"  :banghead:

Randy once mentioned that good writing for Superman means you can't just send him up against problems he can fix by punching someone in the mouth. But, the writers (and maybe the audience) seem to like those stories.

[johncostantine78]

I adjusted the hero files on Hulk and Superman and I think I have a much better representation of them now. I setup ten matches and Supes won 7 and Hulk 3. Here is how I gave Supes super reflexes for dodging
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/superreflexes.jpg. This seems to work really well, as Hulk swings and swings at Supes and he just dodges them. Here is Kal-el's stats http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/Supermanstats.jpg and his powers http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/supermanpowers.jpg. The Hulk's stat are http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/Hulkstats.jpg and his powers http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/hulkpowers.jpg. The three matches that Hulk won, he landed 300+ punches after his defense-mechanism kicked in. Superman's 50 invulnerability and physical resistance gives him great protection from physical harm but when the Hulk starts throwing 300+ punches, even Supes can't stand up to them. Superman lands around 10 punches to Hulk's two and if it wasn't for Hulk's regen powers he would go down in minutes.

The pictures are unavaible...

[herodad1]

i never really liked comparing who's characters are stronger,faster, ect. between dc/marvel because marvels characters were written in a more real world reality where dc's was more fantasy.dc's suped superman up to the point of ( if you look at all his abilities) who cant he beat?if you could move faster than a speeding bullet wouldnt you do it every time?

[SingleMalt]

I adjusted the hero files on Hulk and Superman and I think I have a much better representation of them now. I setup ten matches and Supes won 7 and Hulk 3. Here is how I gave Supes super reflexes for dodging
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/superreflexes.jpg. This seems to work really well, as Hulk swings and swings at Supes and he just dodges them. Here is Kal-el's stats http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/Supermanstats.jpg and his powers http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/supermanpowers.jpg. The Hulk's stat are http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/Hulkstats.jpg and his powers http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n301/captmorgan72/hulkpowers.jpg. The three matches that Hulk won, he landed 300+ punches after his defense-mechanism kicked in. Superman's 50 invulnerability and physical resistance gives him great protection from physical harm but when the Hulk starts throwing 300+ punches, even Supes can't stand up to them. Superman lands around 10 punches to Hulk's two and if it wasn't for Hulk's regen powers he would go down in minutes.

The pictures are unavaible...

They work fine for me.

[johncostantine78]

For me, now, too!

[Blitzgott]

It depends. Here are two experiences I had with those two fightning - one with the standard, lame AI, and the other with M25's AI.

If it's standard AI Hulk versus standard AI Supes, then Supes, obviously. The game's AI never picks anything from the ground to throw, so, whenever Supes is flying, Hulk is completely hopeless, for Kal-El can inflict major damage from afar with his heat vision and other poop. My Hulk in particular has a ranged attack (he picks up a rock from the ground and throws at the enemy) but it's not a fast or accurate enough projectile to nail Kal-El with.

Sometimes Kal-El will land near Hulk and try to hit him with his mighty fists, and he usually manages to score, while poor Hulk always ends up hitting air because Kal-El can start flying the second Hulk tries to punch him. And the most annoying stuff about the standard AI is that they land; run in your direction like they want to engage you in melee, and then fly away when they are targeted with an attacking command. Man... flier is cheap.

Unless your Hulk does not have berserker (how come?), Supes' annoying blasts will eventually enrage him and he'll start civillian hunting. That's the part where Kal-El usually lands, runs to the Hulk, who is too busy slaughtering the entire town or punching lamps, and lays on him his best attack just to then fly away from a wallop from an enraged Hulk like a chicken sh*t.

The fight usually keeps up like this, with Kal-El always in control of the pace and smoothering the Hulk until he is down for the count. I'm yet to pit them more than around five times this way, but Hulk is yet to win a single one.


With M25 AI, the things get a tiny bit more brutal. There are now constant ground exchanges and Kal-El is no longer as safe airbone as he thought he'd be, for he learnt the hard way how well Hulk can throw a car. Supes is still more defensively-oriented and likes to fly around spamming his heat vision, but he lands much more constantly to give the Hulk the chance to put up a fight and does not exploit the flier attribute advantage of avoiding any melee attack instantly and faultlessly anymore; instead prefering to use his uncanny agility and resilience to stand his ground against the Hulk, only very rarely taking one of the Hulk's massive punches while frequently inflicting tremendous damage himself.

Even though Hulk now has enough brains to throw stuff other than just his less-than-spectacular and expensive projectile attack, Supes still owns him at ranged combat, and usually gets the best out of Hulk even at close range, since he is consideraly more powerful than Hulk until the latter goes mad. However, there's also the 300-percenter effect, which can really unbalance things. Sometimes the Hulk will activate his adrenaline surge power (300-percenter) and start swinging at Supes. Due to Supes agility, Hulk's efforts to hit him are usually futile, but when an attack does connect, it's usually a finisher. I once saw Hulk snap with 300-percenter on and throw his very high magnitude area melee attack for over 300 health points of damage against a few flesh targets. A few 300-percenter blows plus the damage that Supes is bond to suffer during the fight are more than enough to put him down.

So, unlike the standard AI brawls, fights with characters using M25, depending on their characteristics, powers and circunstances, such as luck or whatever, can be very unpredictable. Supes is an all-purposes hero that excels at everything. On paper, he overshadows Hulk in almost every aspect. The Hulk can't touch him, can barely harm him, and is weaker than him. He is also more versatile and overall more powerful.

Hulk, to his merit, can become an equal to Kal-El on strength level, take a lot of punishment and has a respectable degree of versatility, not to mention his adrenaline surge. However, Hulk is also clumsy, unpredictable and can only keep up with Kal-El when the latter wants to.

Basically, if Kal-El fights the "perfect fight", taking only the hits that his insane invulnerability of 30 can protect him from, he can win very easily. However, if he recklessly brings the fight to Hulk, he might very well be served a 300-percent knuckle sandwish that might be enough to take him out of the fight.

Fighting under these circunstances, the Hulk managed to win 3 out of 5 fights up until now.

[bearded]

i read a comic where batman beat the hulk.  what sort of ff power would that have to be?

[stumpy]

I think I remember seeing that in a comic shop once. Was is a tabloid-sized team-up issue from the same era as the Superman / Spider-Man team-ups?

As to the game, this is one of those areas where a well-designed Batman character shouldn't be able to take down the Hulk one-on-one in the Rumble Room, unless the Hulk is designed to revert to Banner if he can't fight for a little while. (I actually think the Hulk ought not be able to take down Batman either, because he should never get close to him, but that's a different issue.) But, in a campaign situation, Batman might be able to design a machine that could stun the Hulk or force him to revert via some sort of sedative gas*.

This is similar, IMO, to the issue discussed in the Superman vs. Luthor thread. Luthor is a great villain, but he doesn't stand much chance against Clark in a random one-on-one encounter. But he would be great in a campaign setting.

(* Actually, that may be an idea for a good FFX attack swap. If a character who is shapeshifted via one of the many means FFX allows, then the attack can revert him back to his previous form...)

[Carravaggio]

i read a comic where batman beat the hulk.  what sort of ff power would that have to be?

I suppose you could have an accidental change attribute for hulk set to "when energy =0 OR when blanked, change to bruce banner." Then all bats needs to do is spam gamma braining grenades or something.
I think i have that comic. In it Hulk is presented closer to the 70s TV hulk, strong and tough, but beatable if you drop a car on his head. Batman hit his pressure points over and over until he wore him down and gassed him as well. that wouldn't work on the REAL hulk, let alone WWH.
I love batman, but if tony stark, reed richards and doc strange cant cure hulk, no-one can.
Except maybe Doom.

[YoungHeros]

I love batman, but if tony stark, reed richards and doc strange cant cure hulk, no-one can.
Except maybe Doom.

I have seen The Silver Surfer had cured him.

[Carravaggio]

I love batman, but if tony stark, reed richards and doc strange cant cure hulk, no-one can.
Except maybe Doom.

I have seen The Silver Surfer had cured him.

Damn good point. Silver SUrfer can absorb any matter by transferring it into energy. He should be able to remove all the raditaion from hulk and render him powerless, and maybe even cure him.
Dammit writers get you act together, or at least be consistent.

[bearded]

so...surfer could beat superman by draining his yellow sun energy...

[wickerman]

so...surfer could beat superman by draining his yellow sun energy...

Agreed,  but it would never happen...   it is one of those comic-isms.  It's like the whole Thor vs Superman debate - people wring thier hands and jump up and down about magic vs superman etc...  When the fight - if done properly - would last about 3 seconds - .5 seconds for Superman to land 4-500 shots and 2.5 seconds for Thor's disembodied head to hit the floor.

Again, no one wants to see that, so we all kinda ignore that Superman is about 1000x faster than Thor.  By the same token, people like to yell and scream about Batman vs Cap.  Yes, Cap would likely beat him in a knockdown-drag out martial arts contest.  The folks that think Bruce can beat a guy of roughly equal skill who is stronger and basically never fatigues are crazy.  Equally crazy are the folks that think Batman would fight the guy for 10 minutes, realize he is outmatched and just keep punching and kicking until he loses.  The guy has enough crap jammed into his belt to take on the US Marines.  He's drop Cap with any number of clever devices the minute he realized he couldn't beat him.

I relaize I just used 2 DC guys as examples - I'm not some fan boy or anything, they just sprang to mind.

[Carravaggio]

so...surfer could beat superman by draining his yellow sun energy...

I think so. Actually surfer could, I believe, beat anyone by turning their entire mass into energy and absorbing them, unless he has sort if limit to how much he can absorb. But i've long believed that surfer could beat Superman, surfer's powers are so wild and undefined he can do almost anything, such as fits a herald of Galactus. As powerful and Superman is, Surfer is closer to a cosmic being able to reshape matter and energy, but he is another example of characters i see who are often written poorly.
Surfer's only weak point is he is a borderline pacifist. He has powers but not really the training to use them, which is probably why anyone manages to get one over on him. He is skilled at using his powers, just not so much in combat. But when you're that strong i guess you dont need it.

Like Wickerman said tho, its all about the writers. Anyone could write a version of any character that can conceivably beat any other character in a similar range of power. I could write Superman beats anyone believably (hulk, surfer, gladiator, goku, thor, thanos etc etc.) or any of them beats Kal-El believably through narration and extenuating circumstances.
I don't think my FF version of Surfer could take my FF version of superman tho, buts all to do with limitations of the game. Hmmm, i might have to try that out.

[lugaru]

so...surfer could beat superman by draining his yellow sun energy...

Agreed,  but it would never happen...   it is one of those comic-isms.  It's like the whole Thor vs Superman debate - people wring thier hands and jump up and down about magic vs superman etc...  When the fight - if done properly - would last about 3 seconds - .5 seconds for Superman to land 4-500 shots and 2.5 seconds for Thor's disembodied head to hit the floor.

Again, no one wants to see that, so we all kinda ignore that Superman is about 1000x faster than Thor.  By the same token, people like to yell and scream about Batman vs Cap.  Yes, Cap would likely beat him in a knockdown-drag out martial arts contest.  The folks that think Bruce can beat a guy of roughly equal skill who is stronger and basically never fatigues are crazy.  Equally crazy are the folks that think Batman would fight the guy for 10 minutes, realize he is outmatched and just keep punching and kicking until he loses.  The guy has enough crap jammed into his belt to take on the US Marines.  He's drop Cap with any number of clever devices the minute he realized he couldn't beat him.

I relaize I just used 2 DC guys as examples - I'm not some fan boy or anything, they just sprang to mind.

But again your asking for superman to do something he never does and people might as well asume he cant. When was the last time he hyper speed punched doomsday, darkseid or anyone else for that matter? Hell, even robots get treated to slow punches. Likewise it's like saying "why dosent superman do something he's never done in the comics and probably cannot do but In my imagination he can?"

And wow, I didint know Cap didint have shield capable of disabling or knocking out a person in one or two dense blows. If Batman get's hit by a crooks bullet every other issue, he couldent avoid caps super artistic shield throws. But no, "batman can beat anyone" the book says. "Otherwise he would be flawed, and he would become a marvel character".

[Outcast]

Maybe this guy knows something.... :P

Here we go...Superman vs Hulk video!  :cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP6CqkxUThU

Hey what game is this?! It's cool!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0fG3KLsW6E

[wickerman]

[/quote]

But again your asking for superman to do something he never does and people might as well asume he cant. When was the last time he hyper speed punched doomsday, darkseid or anyone else for that matter? Hell, even robots get treated to slow punches. Likewise it's like saying "why dosent superman do something he's never done in the comics and probably cannot do but In my imagination he can?"

And wow, I didint know Cap didint have shield capable of disabling or knocking out a person in one or two dense blows. If Batman get's hit by a crooks bullet every other issue, he couldent avoid caps super artistic shield throws. But no, "batman can beat anyone" the book says. "Otherwise he would be flawed, and he would become a marvel character".
[/quote]

You're missing the point.  The thrust of the discussion was the fact that a bunch of heroes have powers that few writers ever use.  Think about Gambit's long forgotten mind control ability or the Sub MAriner's electrical field attack..

The point is, it has been long established that Superman is nearly as fast as some versions of the Flash and yet stands around letting Doomsday beat his head in.  You are obviously a MArvel lover and you jumped on my examples because it happened to be 2 DC guys - I could really give a rat's arse who wins between 2 fictional characters.  I am talking about inconsistent writing.

The bottom line is, Batman has faced guys as strong, fast and skilled as Cap and defeated them when he needs to and then turned around and gotten mauled by 5 thugs in an alley a week later.  It is just crap writing.  Likewise, Superman is constantly considered to not really have super speed in a VS thread, but Thor happens to use his unfettered might attack against the first spandexed guy in a cape he sees just in case they are 3 times stronger, 1000 times faster and a full-on preemptive magical assault is the only chance Thor has top beat him.

I'm not some Superman lover- as Carravaggio pointed out, thr Silver surfer would slaughter Superman.  He is at least as fast with an insane array of powers.  Even so there were DC fan boys who insisted in that moronic crossover years back that Kyle Rayner should have beaten him - now THAT would have been bad writing...


Ya know like the Wolverine Lobo fight....   or Aquaman/Submariner :)

[stumpy]

Good points, wickerman. Few characters are consistently portrayed using their powers and abilities. If the story requires Batman to beat Superman (a la Dark Knight), then it will happen, no matter how contrived the scene.

BTW,

Ya know like the Wolverine Lobo fight....   or Aquaman/Submariner :)

Did that Wolverine v. Lobo fight ever happen? Talk about pitting the overhyped "bad boy" characters against one another. I am almost sure I have old comics where Lobo holds his own against Superman. I don't mean he can win, but one has to be pretty powerful even to stay standing against Superman, assuming (as per topic) that he isn't written to be a twit. So, I have a hard time imagining that Wolverine is even vaguely in that league. Oh well.  :rolleyes: