The X-men Thread (spoilers)

[Previsionary]

So I've been seeing rumors around the net that Adjectiveless X-men is pretty much canceled after the next event and I wanted to see how you guys felt about that? I personally think the core books have been on a pretty good upswing ignoring the many many many many delays of astonishing.

[edit] With the messiah complex main event over, This thread can now be used to be talked about the aftermath and any other X-related comic.  ;)

[Podmark]

Yep it's all but official, X-Men ends after Messiah Complex. Mike Carey will be moving on to another X-project supposedly a mini series rumored to be either a Xavier or Magneto solo book.

I've been quite happy with the X-books lately, and I'm looking forward to next week's Messiah Complex start. I'm holding out judgement on X-Men's end until we know more.

In other news Chris Yost and Craig Kyle are confirmed as the writers of X-Force. The Cable writer was revealed too, but I don't remember his name.

[Podmark]

Just an update, Carey's X-Book is called X-Men: Legacy and starts someone who's been around since the beginning, with a large supporting cast.

http://www.livewireworld.com/review/interviews.htm

[murs47]

Are Yost and Kyle staying on New X-Men? Better yet, is New X-Men still going to be around after Messiah Complex?

[Podmark]

Are Yost and Kyle staying on New X-Men? Better yet, is New X-Men still going to be around after Messiah Complex?

No one knows. There's been alot of baseless speculation either way but Marvel hasn't really said anything, except Mike Carey saying the the story of the kids would continue post MC. What that means exactly is unknown.

[Talavar]

I do find it really interesting, that just when almost all of the x-men books are quite good (excluding Exiles & Excalibur, which are in the crapper) Marvel's going to have a "big event" and shake everything up.  New X-men might or might not continue, Adjectiveless is gone; Cable & Deadpool is ending, and I think X-factor is getting "retooled" as well. 

But we're getting new X-force and Cable books, so that makes it worthwhile *heaviest sarcasm possible*.  At least Astonishing gets to basically ignore this stuff until Whedon finishes his run, and I hope Warren Ellis gets that same get-out-of-the-continuity-quagmire free card when he takes over the title. 

[Previsionary]

I didn't expect adjectiveless to get canceled because it's in a really good place right now and the x-men need another book to house the other part of their team, but i may change my mind on that after MC so we'll see. Heck, maybe cyclops will finally remember that his father died and his brothers + daughter are in a space war before the book finishes its run...one can dream.

As for suckxiles and crotch shotcaliburs (see the crossover for that reference), exiles is being relaunched with a new writer (if i remember correctly) as new exiles with a fairly different team (as in most of the new crew claremont brought in + sage...which I hope is false) which means Blink, T-bird, and TJ get the shaft and New excalibur will possibly be renamed into Excalibur with Cornell writing in 2008.

[murs47]

I've got bad news Prev. Exiles is being re-launched and Claremont will still be the writer. :thumbdown: :banghead: :doh:

Let's join and look deep into the mind of Joe-Q:

"Hmmm, X-Men is doing really well, let's cancel it. But Exiles, it's doing horribly. I think we'll relaunch it but keep Claremont writing it. I'm such a genius!"

Honestly, I think I'm going to write Chris Claremont a letter. What do you think of this?

"Dear Mr. Claremont,

Are you even trying anymore?

With Utmost Sincerity,
murs47 of the Freedom Reborn forum"

[Podmark]

"Dear Mr. Claremont,

Are you even trying anymore?

With Utmost Sincerity,
murs47 of the Freedom Reborn forum"

LOL! The funny thing is there still are some die hard Claremont fans out there loving his stuff.

Keep in mind that X-Men was pretty terrible before Mike Carey came on and he's leaving the book so there's no guarantee the next creative team would have been any good.

This whole X-shakeup had to do with Axel Alonso becoming the new head X-editor. He wants each book clearly defined and of there's 3 books that really only differ by the creative team and lineup (Uncanny, Astonishing and X-Men). New X-Men has a confusing title so there's rumors it's getting another name change.

The X-books have been pretty good lately so I'm not worried about the changes just yet. I'll need more information first.

[Podmark]

X-Men is NOT cancelled. I'm not sure where the original interview is at the moment, but this thread has quotes from Jim McCain, one of the X-Editors: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=5721774&postcount=38

So it appears Carey will still be writing an altered version of X-Men...

[murs47]

X-Men is NOT cancelled. I'm not sure where the original interview is at the moment, but this thread has quotes from Jim McCain, one of the X-Editors: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=5721774&postcount=38

So it appears Carey will still be writing an altered version of X-Men...

Music to my ears! ^_^

[Previsionary]

very good. Now...if only New exiles didn't hurt my heart!

*it seems we're the only 4 x-men fans on FR ...*gasps**

[daglob]

very good. Now...if only New exiles didn't hurt my heart!

*it seems we're the only 4 x-men fans on FR ...*gasps**

I used to be an X-Men fan, but Chris Claremont cured me of it...

...twenty years ago. That's when I thought he got burned out on mutants.

[detourne_me]

very good. Now...if only New exiles didn't hurt my heart!

*it seems we're the only 4 x-men fans on FR ...*gasps**

i've been trying to keep as spoilered free until i can start reading MC.

[Podmark]

very good. Now...if only New exiles didn't hurt my heart!

*it seems we're the only 4 x-men fans on FR ...*gasps**

i've been trying to keep as spoilered free until i can start reading MC.

Which starts tomorrow! yay!

[crimsonquill]

*it seems we're the only 4 x-men fans on FR ...*gasps**

Oh, I'm an X-Men fan but I've been spending most of my time reading the comics with my fingers over my eyes on certain titles because they seem to butcher my characters more and more instead of actually making them "grow up". New X-Men: Academy X and Astonishing X-Men were the light at the end of a dark tunnel after DeciMation which had it's good moments and bad moments. I loved seeing some elements from Age Of Apocalypse enter the titles in some fashion (most the designs for Sunfire and Rogue) and the return of the Marauders (which held some WTF? moments of betrayal from certain team members).

I'm hoping that Messiah Complex finally gives all the X-Titles some direction without making me refer to uncannyxmen.net every issue because I can't seem to follow the overall storyline of this "big arc" they made for TPB sales. I so really want to see an X-Team that finally has some battle scars and shown they haved learned something that actually sticks to the characters longer then a few months or until the writer gets bored using his handbook to make sure they are not acting out of character.

New Exiles is just Chris Claremont getting saddled with Exiles and New Excalibur then deciding to just put both titles in a blender on frappee until they no longer make any sense at all. As much as I like the UK angle that Claremont keeps putting in Excalibur it doesn't belong in the Exiles and pulling a "Destroy The Green Lan.. oops..Britian Corps." angle on things to justify a team reshuffling for a post-Messiah tie-in just makes me roll my eyes.

- CrimsonQuill

[murs47]

very good. Now...if only New exiles didn't hurt my heart!

*it seems we're the only 4 x-men fans on FR ...*gasps**

i've been trying to keep as spoilered free until i can start reading MC.

Which starts tomorrow! yay!

Along with New X-Men #43. JOY! ^_^

EDIT: For some reason I'm a bit nervous about MC. Not out of the possibility of it being poorly done. More along the lines of how much is it going shake up the x-universe. Civil War did quite a number on the rest of the Marvel U, do you think MC will leave the same drastic effects?

[Silver Shocker]

I'll be happy to buy Messiah Complex which I look forward to, but let it be known I hate New X-Men, at least the Kyle/Yost incarnation. I've liked work by the two, specificly their writing on superhero cartoons like X-Men Evolution, Ninja Turtles and Fantastic Four, but I think thier comic work on the book is terrible for a number of reasons including content, pace, and accessibility. I liked #42, but only because for maybe the second time in the entire run they put charactarization first and mile-a-minute action last. I expect I'll like #43 and hate the Messiah Complex crossover issues of it. Time will tell.

[The Hitman]

*it seems we're the only 4 x-men fans on FR ...*gasps**

I read X- Factor... does that count...?

[murs47]

So....what did all 3 of you think of the MC one-shot?

:P

[Previsionary]

The thread got a name change, so if we all could (even if there's only...3 of us?) keep the MC event in this thread and keep the spoilers behind tags, that'd be great.

My thoughts on MC (since i havent read New X-men yet):

[spoiler]I have medium confidence that this story might actually turn out very well and won't be a major let down like WWH is (imo) and Civil war was. I do have a slight problem with the art in this issue because um...NC looked odd to me. I confused him for Darwin in a panel and that's usually not a good sign. It was probably his hair. :P

The story was a little grim and I really didn't expect to see burning children so that was quite a shock to me. On the other hand, Angel is finally back with the team (and still wearing his old costume which was reintroduced in the hulk books) and he seems to be missing his young gf. YAY! So overall, I'd rate the one-shot a 3.5 out of 5 since it kept me interested and all. BTW, can anyone tell me where astonishing currently fits into the X-men universe? I usually keep it out of continuity for the most part, but it seems Joss's last arc actually affects something this time around...character-wise at least.[/spoiler]

P.S. Yes, Hitman. X-factor counts. :D

[Silver Shocker]

[spoiler]My feelings for Messiah Complex are similar. I felt the one-shot was very much dissapointing, though the crossover itself could still be good. And I too think Nightcrawer looked off-his hair look somewhat inconsistant between scenes. Over all I didn't like Silvestri's art for the same reason I usually don't like his more modern work (creepy cheekbones, women look like prostitutes, ex.). The dialogue was decent enough (I found Rockslide of New X-Men's line "Are we being attacked? AWESOME!" to be both in character and probably the funniest thing he ever said) but I found the actual plot and pace left me a bit cold.

I have read New X-Men, and I HATED it. Young's art (which I am not naturally inclined to hate) was straight out abysmal, his worst issue by far. Cyclops looked horrible, Wolverine apparently had a foam hand and Jolt (I mean Surge) continues to be the chimpansee/wildly unflattering depiction of a Asian person Young has always drawn her as. Apparently Dust's powers are not to turn to dust, but a hurricane or tsunami. Scottie? Her codename is Dust. It's not that hard. I found Cyclops to be written very out of character (I refuse to believe Cyclops would say half the X-Men's battles were won by luck alone and mean it). Alani (who I also think looks badly drawn in this) asking Elixir if he wants to make out with her was lame and came out of nowhere. I'm not sure the two characters have ever once interacted together on screen in all of New Mutants and New X-Men, and I always disliked the series' compulsion to pair as many of the characters up as possible. The writers apparently forgot to add in the narration boxes for the Predator X and Elixir pages in post production, and I found Beast's line "Attention, my little X-Progeny, I--say, do I smell S'mores" to be quite possibly the most OOC line I've ever read from him. I'm really tired of the book catering to David Alleyne/Prodegy,  a character I never cared for, and here they actually give him his powers back in a fashion. I call bull on that. Rockslide looked like crap, though I'll will say I think Match looks kinda cool and this was a rare glimpse into the character's personality. Finally as soon as I saw Beast give them new uniforms I knew a crappy group shot was coming up and it sure enough was both a group shot and crappy.

In closing, If not for Messiah Complex, I would be dropping this book, and downgrading it to "wait for the sale" status along with Thunderbolts which I used to buy regularly. Also the Bryan Hitch New X-Men girls pinup was all kinds of wrong, and I love Hitch's Ultimate work. I'll also add that I'm looking forward to Ramos' stint on the book, as he probably can't be worse than Young by default, and the sketch (cover?) he did look great in black in white, but I always thought the colored product looked flippin' AMAZING (seen in the back of Messiah Complex). Ramos is a funky artist, but I think he'll be carrying this book while he's on it.

Naturally, YVMV. I'd appreciate if the vast majority of devoted New X-Men fans don't lynch me for having a polar opposite opinion. Thank you. [/spoiler]

Also, I should hope X-Factor counts. I've been buying it longest of all the X-books (I don't usually buy Uncanny, but I will pick up the crossover issues) It's also my favourite X-Book.

[murs47]

[spoiler]Was I disappointed? No. Is it amazing? No. But, it strongly kept my interest. I'll agree with Prev on what the Purifiers did in that town, it was a little too much. I liked the art, but Kurt did look a bit peculiar.

While I think Brubaker is an excellent writer, I don't think he has a strong a grasp of our favorite x-characters (yet) like David, Carey, Kyle, and Yost do on their respective titles. So, I think the event will get a lot better when we reach chapters of it written by those writers.

On to New X-Men #43:

You are so getting lynched for your comments/opinions on that issue Shocker :P

I didn't agree with what Cyclops had to say in the beginning either. Him win by luck? Please. He's a tactical leader. The man with the master plan. Other then that, I thought he was pretty much in character.

As for Loa asking Prodigy to make out, probably one of my favorite scenes. In previous panels, the adults are all worried about him and have no clue on how to turn his frown upside down. But in comes this adolescent girl with raging hormones wanting to spontaneously make out and he cheers up. I thought it kind of poked at "parents don't understand kids, and vice versa" saying. It just made sense to me.

On to the art. I'm with you on this one Shocker. I personally love Young's urban style of art. I especially think it's very fitting for this title. But not when he uses a sharpie and does it in two seconds. Shame on him for that.
[/spoiler]

[Silver Shocker]

[spoiler]If I'm to be lynched by one who only disagrees with me on the writing of side of things.....

Young's done work I like. His abstract style in earlier gigs (especially the old short-lived Human Torch ongoing that came out of tsunami) was very much like that of Ramos and Herrera. I would say it was around the time of the New Warriors mini or perhaps his Legend of the Spider-Clan work that he became really fun.  However, yes, you summed it with the "Sharpie" comment. My huge complaint with the entirety of the "Quest for Magic" arc (other than it sucked royally, but I digress) was that the art was accompanied by the muddiest, murkiest, sloppiest coloring since D'armata's work on Avengers Dissasembled. The one issue I liked a little (both in terms off writing and art) was colored partly by Young, and the colored actually didn't suck sludge. #41 was also by Young and the colors in that were fine. Young did the colors in this issue and it was a mess. It was sketchy and grainy all over the place. I'd have guessed Scott Summer's was the one codenamed "Dust" from the amount of particles visable on his costume. Before now I didn't know it was possible to make him suck wearing the super-cool Cassaday costume. I have a love-hate relationship with the cover, and the hate part comes strictly from the grainy effect.

Oh, HO NO, Kyle and Yost don't get the X-characters. Not the decades-old ones. The ones who by thier pen adandon the kids to go to a wedding after they were attacked by an enemy that got away, because they didn't beleive them about Nimrod, and didn't call in any of Marvel's hundreds of other characters, particularly old allies to stay over to help keep them safe.  Emma Frost trying to guilt Carol Danvers, who was a longtime ally of the X-Men in Uncanny X-Men under Claremont, for not helping them bury thier dead because she and every other non-mutant superhero were too busy fighting thier own battles which the X-Men didn't help with. Just how many big Avengers storylines did the X-Men (not counting Beast, who WAS an Avenger) actually help for? Where were they during Dissasembled when the mansion blew up and three of thier boys (well, two) died? You can cut the hypocricy with a knife. And Cyclops kicks Xavier out of the mansion over that Deadly Genesis thing but continues to be with Emma after she tried to have one of the kids killed? I'm sorry, but I call serious bull on all of that.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that the issue didn't explain at all why Indra turned into Galvatron in the middle of a scene. I mean, I can assume that's his power, but all the imagination I have couldn't explain why a purple guy with a gem on his forehead turns into a blue amored form with a crown-like helmet.

The book's accessibility issues sucked badly. This is the FIRST storyline where Indra is anything more than a background cameo or a name-drop and they don't even introduce him for new readers or readers who forgot about some of the other more obscure half-a dozen characters.  They could have used the Elixer and Predator pages to explain who they are, with a few small narration boxes. like half the other comics in the business do, but that would-what?- obscure Scottie's amazing black background or snowy mountain over the horizen? That was my biggest problem with Quest for Magic-half the cast was 3rd-stringers upgraded to top billing, yet few of them were even properly introduced by name. I wasn't even sure what their powers were for the bulk of it. If they can tell you "Cyclops has otic blasts, Wolverine has adamentium bones and a healing factor, and Emma Frost has breast implants" enough times over the years for you to memorize the exact wordings, I think we can do with a little "Elixir has the power to both heal and kill with a touch, the latter he used on both Reverand Striker and the girl he loved, Prodegy once had the powers to learn the powers of anyone in a room, Indra can transform into Galvatron, at which point he is voiced by Leonard Nemoy".

I think I've  made my point, annoyingly picky as it may be. But hey, I'm a comic book reader, it comes with the territory! Now if you excuse me, I have to go complain that Reed Richards is wearing white boots after Arbor Day and Tony Stark isn't grooming his beard in character!  :thumbup:[/spoiler]

[murs47]

[spoiler]Shocker, I was just joking around about the lynch thing. Sorry if I offended you. :(

Apologies aside, I looked back at the past few issues of New X-Men and realized that they don't really introduce the characters with a caption like all the other x-books do. That's not really fair to new readers, and I agree; it's a bit less accessible to them.[/spoiler]

[Silver Shocker]

[spoiler]I was joking too. I was just pointing out that at least you agreed with me on the art, which I consider to be 50% of the creative process of any comic book. S you only half disagreed with me which I thought was pretty good.
The fact that they're not all that new user friendly is something I as well only noticed recently. During Quest for Magic I was frustrated because I didn't know Nezno's powers (and didn't realize that the characters and readers didn't either), and didn't know that hairy wolfman's name (still don't). I also can never remember Match's real name.

When Predator X was mentioned in MC solicits, I realized I had no idea who that was despite the fact that I had read its first and only appearance, the "Murcury Falling" storyline. So I decided it was in my best interest to reread the past year of issues (except for Quest for Magic, which had just came out) so I could remember certain things I forgot. One was a bit with Hellion practicing TK on a paper clip, something he mentioned just last issue. I would not have remembered that referance otherwise. I also realized that in the "Whatever happened to Wither" storyline (still waiting with that storyline, Kyle and Yost. It's been a year), Selene, who's kinda important in the storyline, is never referred to by name. Kinda important, as she's not exactly Magneto in terms of how well known an X-Men villain she is.

In addition, any background or personality traits about many of the more obscure characters only now being used in the last two storylines could previously only be found in the New X-Men Yearbook one-shot, which was mostly a handbook with handbook entires for main characters, some "yearbook" style entries for all or most of the characters, and a rather short story. I'm not sure just how many people would buy that. I don't buy handbooks or "Sagas", the only OHTTMU issues I have are from the bargin bin. [/spoiler]

[Previsionary]

[spoiler]Since I'm not a regular New X-men reader (since i stopped just after Jean ascended or died or w/e it is she did in that issue), I agree with SS on some of his points. I tried to read the magik storyline awhile ago and I really couldn't get into it and the art turned me off as well...that and magik seemed so different from the way I remembered her. With that being said...I still haven't read the latest issue yet but I will...one day. Probably around the same time I read all 8 issues of ultimate power. :P

Anyway, my major problem with MC art wise was that it seemed kinda...off? I dunno if it was the coloring (emma's lips in a panel) or just the pencils (they looked rough in some areas...a cyclops scene comes to mind), but it didn't fit my tastes. Also, emma seemed to just be randomly posing in very odd positions in some panels and ya know...I don't need more reasons to think less of emma. :D Oh, Karima makes Emma look tame and that's saying something.

Anyway, SS, cyclops's behavior is a different issue entirely. He hasn't really been written all that great in a long time and I think I just block him out a lot of the time. That's why I liked x-men 204...he finally reacted to something! He took yet another small dig at emma and he remembered he had alternate future kids (and jean made an appearance). Lately, it just seems cykes is just there and never really reacts to anything. Him remaining with Emma and allowing her to basically run the school and talk down to people is also odd for him because I highly doubt he'd let Jean get away with half as much, but that's another debate in itself. I just don't really like emma and she's not done that much to redeem herself, imo, and the writers keep ever so gracefully tying emma into Jean/Phoenix's life so I don't think their rivalry will ever end...ever...

And so to conclude, I'm finding that I like characters created by CC when they're not written by him. So...one day, when CC let's go of sage, I might actually tolerate her!

Also, perhaps Cyclops will get his emotions and hypocrisy, as SS called it, in check and try to repair his relationships with those around him. Perhaps even NC will do something again because he didn't really do much in his leadership role in uncanny, sadly...hey, perhaps emma and kitty will get along but that's pushing it, right? ^_^. Most importantly, maybe Xavier and Magneto can find a purpose again because lately they've just been around.[/spoiler]

With the spoilers out of the way, can anyone confirm whether or not the young avengers will go looking for wanda? I remember there being talks about that happening and I figured now would probably be a good time since wanda's location is no longer a secret...how everyone found out her location (exaggerated) is another story in itself.

[Silver Shocker]

Back in YA #12 (the last issue of the series before it's excrutiating hiatus...that was my favourite book at the time), they said their next big goal was to find Wanda. They got distracted because the Zodiac attacked the UN and they went to fight them. Then Civil War started, at which they were a little busy. Now the team's seperated, with some on the run, anti-reg, and most became registered dogs of the military. The upcoming mini doesn't seem like it will be about that because each issue focuses on a single member of the team. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Podmark]

I guess I haven't put up my thoughts on MC1 yet. I've been reading pretty much all the interviews and preview put out over the last couple of months for this event so honestly I knew pretty much everything that was going to happen in this issue. There wasn't any real surprises for me, and I honestly wasn't expecting to like it much at all.

But actually I thought it was pretty good. Nothing spectacular, but a decent story. I liked how effective the X-Men were; they got in, helped the survivors and got to the bottom of things nice and quick. Cyke was taking charge like he should. However, there wasn't much to the plot, I knew this coming in and I'm giving the issue a free pass on this because it's the prologue, I expect more from the rest of the chapters.

From the previews I didn't expect to like the art but I found it didn't really bother me when I actually read the issue. It wasn't anything that I went back and stared at in amazement, but it didn't really detract for me either. However Silvestri butchered my beloved Cat-Beast :(

I'd give it a loaded 7/10. It's spared potential negative points because I expected worse. It's probably more of a 6/10 maybe even a 5/10, but I felt it was a good start that showed the seriousness of the situation.

[detourne_me]

[spoiler]I liked it.  it was good seeing Cyclops lay down some decent orders. i thought the cyke, emma, warren and wolvie characterizations were spot on.  refreshing to hear logan call scott "slim" and kurt "elf" once again.   i also like how the marauders weren't totally invincible either (that was one of the reasons why the original mutant massacre was so cool.  just the plain mortality and vulnerability of the characters)
the last page totally lost me though...   what the heck is predator x?[/spoiler]