Heroes Season 2 Open Discussion

[BentonGrey]

Well Starlock, look at Lex Luthor, he doesn't have any powers at all, but he's one of the greatest villains of all time.  A man who is completely unstoppable, like Adam, who was also a mastermind, could be dangerous indeed.  Every time you think you've put him down for the count, he comes back with a vengeance.  Yeah, physically he may be no match for some of the heroes, but with a little tech and a few weapons (like Maury) he can be an incredible threat.

[Sevenforce]

*cough cough* Vandal Savage  :P

[BentonGrey]

Excellent point Sevenforce, why didn't I think of that!

[Conduit]

There's also Linderman from last season.  All he could do was heal other people and he managed to be a pretty serious threat.

In other news, Kring recently gave an interview here where he admitted that the season has had problems.  He talked about a lot of the things that we've been talking about.  In particular, he admitted that the pace was too slow, the Feudal Japan arc should have taken only 3 episodes, and they don't do romantic storylines well.  It's good to hear.

[kkhohoho]

Yet while Heroes has finally found some dramatic traction, this second volume is pretty much a wash. The Dec. 3 episode has been retooled to function as a potential season finale — a move inspired by the writers' strike and a desire to give the show ''a clean slate'' when it goes back into production for Volume 3. At that point, Kring wants to craft a rebooted Heroes that can attract new fans and win back those who've tuned out: ''The message is that we've heard the complaints — and we're doing something about it.''

Here's hoping they don't make a clean slate and reboot by killing off everyone. :wacko:

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I very much doubt that's what he meant.

But really, there are very few times when producers hear their fans like that.  It's a great sign for the show's long-term future.

[GhostMachine]

Technically, Adam could be considered an evil Immortal ala Highlander, except he's English instead of Scottish and we don't know if cutting off his head would actually kill him (but it sure would inconvenience him!).

If they want to improve the show for a third season, I have three suggestions:

1. Get rid of Maya and Alejandro. The Hiro in ancient Japan storyline may have been extended too long, but Maya and Alejandro's storyline is BORING and has been from the beginning. Hopefully, either their powers somehow ties into the big threat virus (doubt it) making them actually relevant or Sylar gets his powers back and kills both of them.

2. Kill off Sylar, and make it good. ie, don't give us a quick, lousy battle like the we got at the end of last season and have an identifiable corpse so we KNOW he's dead. And make it permanent.

3. Either de-power Nikki, have her get a grip (ie, get over DL and anything else she's feeling guilt over), or kill her off. Its getting old.

[OutsiderNo11]

Technically, Adam could be considered an evil Immortal ala Highlander, except he's English instead of Scottish and we don't know if cutting off his head would actually kill him (but it sure would inconvenience him!).

If they want to improve the show for a third season, I have three suggestions:

1. Get rid of Maya and Alejandro. The Hiro in ancient Japan storyline may have been extended too long, but Maya and Alejandro's storyline is BORING and has been from the beginning. Hopefully, either their powers somehow ties into the big threat virus (doubt it) making them actually relevant or Sylar gets his powers back and kills both of them.

2. Kill off Sylar, and make it good. ie, don't give us a quick, lousy battle like the we got at the end of last season and have an identifiable corpse so we KNOW he's dead. And make it permanent.

3. Either de-power Nikki, have her get a grip (ie, get over DL and anything else she's feeling guilt over), or kill her off. Its getting old.

1. Maya and Alejandro's story should have been put in an Origins episode.  It would have made more sense there.

2. Sylar needs to go.  And just kill him, don't turn it into an elaborate fight.  Last season was as far as we should have gone with him anyway.  This is a good example of why a good actor should have his fifteen minutes and then dropped.  His character was solid in the last season and it made sense when he "died" then.  But why bring him back when all he's done is bash people in the head and otherwise not done much of anything of interest.

3. Niki should just die as well.  Her story ended last season when Jessica merged back into her main personality.  There isn't much else to do with her.

[Conduit]

3. Niki should just die as well.  Her story ended last season when Jessica merged back into her main personality.  There isn't much else to do with her.

I disagree with that.  There's a lot that they can do with Niki.  She has a pretty useful power, a connection to the Company, and was involved with Linderman's death.  They are plenty of potential hooks there.  The problem with her is that the writers couldn't think of anything, so they pointlessly brought back the Jessica storyline, then resolved it again offscreen and replaced it with a slightly different form of crazy, then infected her with the virus.  Really, the character deserves better.

I definitely agree with you about Sylar and Maya, though.

[Adamence]

There's a lot they can do with all of their characters that doesn't involve killing them off.  I'm actually a little tired of way they've been handling characters on the show.  I find I can't appreciate new characters because I'm forced to just assume they're going to get killed off and it makes the show feel like it's a revolving door of characters.  At least 8 characters who appeared in 3 episodes or more were killed off up to this point in the series.  Instead of just killing off characters and bringing in new ones every four episodes, they just need to start utilizing the ones that they have. 

I'm sure the twins will be plenty involved with the Virus storyline as long as the writers use them properly, so while their storyline has been agonizingly long and slow so far (one of those tempo problems that Tim Kring was talking about) doesn't mean they should just be offed. 

Now that Niki's working with the company, and has been infected with the Virus, I can see her character becoming much more interesting until they inevitably kill her off. 

And I must say, I like Sylar, and I hope they don't just kill him off.  And I'm not just saying that because they're killing too many characters off.  With Sylar's power, he has the chance to be an incredibly powerful villain, and with Peter being so damn powerful, they need to have someone who can at least slightly pose a challenge to him, instead of the route they'd likely take if they kill of Sylar, and bring in more and more powerful villains for Peter to have something to do.

[The Hitman]

It was my understanding that Zack Quento (Sylar) was going to be absent from Heroes for the latter half of the season anyways because of the new Star Trek movie he's in (he's getting all Spocked up), so even if they don't kill him off, he's not going to be around for Volume 3. I could be wrong, though.

[Conduit]

It was my understanding that Zack Quento (Sylar) was going to be absent from Heroes for the latter half of the season anyways because of the new Star Trek movie he's in (he's getting all Spocked up), so even if they don't kill him off, he's not going to be around for Volume 3. I could be wrong, though.

Of course, with the writer's strike it's very possible that those episodes may end up not being filmed at the same time he's filming the new Star Trek movie.  So if they planned to write him out, they may not need to anymore.

[The Hitman]

Of course, with the writer's strike it's very possible that those episodes may end up not being filmed at the same time he's filming the new Star Trek movie.  So if they planned to write him out, they may not need to anymore.

True, but if the writers are smart, they will anyways. Cool it with Sylar for a season, then have him be a "forgotten threat" or something.

[thalaw2]

 :spoiler:



What looks like a piece of poor placement to me is that Hiro didn't come back to the exact time he left the future.  He looks like he has pretty good control of his powers, so why wouldn't he go back to where he left off?

Can Adam really hold a grudge for nearly 500 years or so?  I mean come on......build a bridge and get over it!     Sure he could have been a king in Japan, but with is power he could have traveled anywhere in the world and started over.

From what I've been reading about the strike it seems the writers are a little greedy...are the production companies making money off of the internet distribution thing?

[GhostMachine]

From what I've been reading about the strike it seems the writers are a little greedy...are the production companies making money off of the internet distribution thing?

No idea, but you know what I think would be funny? Other people are victims of this, and I assume that since the late night talk shows aren't being taped that the people working on those and other projects affected by the strike probably aren't getting paid. So I think it would be funny if the strike ends and whichever guilds\organizations the people losing work from the strike are represented by turn around and sue the writers guild.

I just thought of something.....didn't Peter leave the Irish chick behind in the future?

[Conduit]

What looks like a piece of poor placement to me is that Hiro didn't come back to the exact time he left the future.  He looks like he has pretty good control of his powers, so why wouldn't he go back to where he left off?

Hiro's always had trouble with the time travel part of his power.  Of all the times he tried to time travel, he only once managed to end up when he wanted to go.  The other times, he's usually overshot it by months or years.  Considering the massive time difference that he teleported over, four months within the target is pretty good for him.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

No idea, but you know what I think would be funny? Other people are victims of this, and I assume that since the late night talk shows aren't being taped that the people working on those and other projects affected by the strike probably aren't getting paid. So I think it would be funny if the strike ends and whichever guilds\organizations the people losing work from the strike are represented by turn around and sue the writers guild.

They've announced that studios have already begun massive layoffs of rank and file workers.  With the studios down they just don't need the everyday folks who work there anymore.

There are even speculations that the economy of California as a whole could begin to suffer if this goes on too long.

However, they won't be sued.  If they are, and it works, striking is in effect illegal, since anyone else effected by a strike can now make things much, much worse for the strikers.  Striking, and unions, would have a hard time even existing.  No one would want to be held responsible for doing that.

[thalaw2]

I just thought of something.....didn't Peter leave the Irish chick behind in the future?

I had that same thought. 

[Kommando]

I just thought of something.....didn't Peter leave the Irish chick behind in the future?

I had that same thought. 

Boy that would be a real bummer if Peter stopped the virus, thereby changing the timeline so the future he visited ceased to exist.  Caitlin wouldn't even die, she would simply cease to exist at some point.

[bredon7777]

I just thought of something.....didn't Peter leave the Irish chick behind in the future?

I had that same thought. 

Boy that would be a real bummer if Peter stopped the virus, thereby changing the timeline so the future he visited ceased to exist.  Caitlin wouldn't even die, she would simply cease to exist at some point.

Not necessarily. She could simply be ejcted from that future to show up back in that warehouse,

[Kommando]

I just thought of something.....didn't Peter leave the Irish chick behind in the future?

I had that same thought. 

Boy that would be a real bummer if Peter stopped the virus, thereby changing the timeline so the future he visited ceased to exist.  Caitlin wouldn't even die, she would simply cease to exist at some point.

Not necessarily. She could simply be ejcted from that future to show up back in that warehouse,

Well I suppose if the writers want to do it the Disney way.  But where's the fun in that?  :P

[Tomato]

OR the future could just change around her after the changes are made. Changing the past doesn't change the event that put her there(IE: Peter's power hiccup), just the future they went to.

[Protomorph]

He could go back and rescue her.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

With his total lack of control?

I'm betting that Hiro will help him out instead.

[bredon7777]

Not thrilled with Niki's storyline for a couple of reasons:

[spoiler]
The MPD thing is now officially cliche. Plus, again- mental health semi-professional nitpick- It don't work that way. If they're not going to end it and end it soon, then Niki needs to die.

D.L. went out like a chump. If he was gonna die, why not have him die the hero he wouldve been last season, taking the bullet for his wife.  This was just demeaning, not to mention unbeliavable- his assilant threw a punch THROUGH HIS HEAD, but thought- "Oh, ok yeah, a bullet will kill him." Nope, don't buy it.
[/spoiler]

Other than that, no complaints at all. Heck, I actually even cared about the emo wonder twins for the first time tonight.  The show is rapidly regaining its former "must watch" status- just in time for the sadly shortened season finale.

Now, I may have missed the odd minute or two discussing with Mrs. Bredon- did they, or did they not cover what happened to Sylar?

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Sylar was left out completely.  He doesn't wake up until his first appearance in Season 2 anyway.

Anyway, some things I wouldn't say in the other thread.

[spoiler]
I agree about DL's death.  For one thing, it makes no sense that he reacted so quickly with the punch, yet couldn't with the gun.  Secondly, the guy just coming up to him and shooting him out of the blue for taking her away with little lead up?  It would have gone down better had they had an argument about it first.  I have no problems with him dying, and even due to jealously, but still, it's not fully believable.

The rest of that scene, however, I found to be very touching, the way he comes after her in spite of everything, and refuses to give up on her.  That, plus the first scene, left me liking the character more than ever.

I personally think the whole Alehandro and Maya segment was completely and utterly worthless.  There were some good scenes, but we didn't learn a single real thing that we didn't already know or guess.  It's obvious that her powers killed a bunch of people and it was mistaken for murder.  The exact circumstances did not turn out to be all that important, and we already know how dedicated he is to her.  So why break up the good part of the story to show us that?  I would have rather seen what was happening to Matt.
[/spoiler]

[Talavar]

I also found it somewhat hilarious that...
[spoiler]
the woman the male Wonderless twin married couldn't even get through her own wedding without cheating on her new husband.  I mean, come on!
[/spoiler]

edit: fixed spoiler tags

[detourne_me]

[spoiler]we have no idea how long niki was gone for so i suspect (given her past employment) that she might've been making that dude some serious cash.  Guy coming in and taking away that paycheck,  i don't think murder is too far out of the question for the guy.

not just a simple jealousy thing.  although  this just made me wish DL was back in the regular cast again.  definitely one of the best characters,  and him becoming a hero firefighter too,  y'know actually being a hero. (the only others one Parkman and Hiro)  Well,  he's way up there on my list of favourites. [/spoiler]

[Conduit]

I liked this episode enough that its issues didn't spoil my enjoyment.  These issues still bothered me, but if they keep this level of quality up, I may be able to overlook them should they show up again in the future.

[spoiler]
I really think that the episode's format helped it avoid many problems that this show has had.  DL is alive, and there isn't that much of a sense that the writers don't know what to do with Niki.  West hasn't met Claire yet, so of course he doesn't show up.  Maya's story is at its beginning, so it can do more besides just run through the same plot for the nth time.  Sure, it didn't tell us much that we didn't know, but it was still enjoyable.

Major continuity error of the week: apparently the Company has drugs that suppress the abilities of specials.  Interesting, considering how in Five Years Gone Mohinder made it very clear that even after years of extremely well funded research they hadn't even come close to finding a cure for special abilities.  Sure, they were mainly interested in a permanent cure, but a law requiring all specials to go to a government clinic and take these drugs under supervision every day, with a harsh penaltly if they voluntarily missed a dose would have a similar effect.  There was a scene where Sylar/Nathan talked to Mohinder about the measures they've put in place, restricting their movement, outlawing their breeding, etc.  There's no way that he wouldn't have mentioned something like this.  Also, why has the Company never put that stuff in darts and used it as a weapon a la X-Men 3?  Or use it at all before this episode, for that matter.

I'm okay with the general idea of regeneration healing a memory wipe, but I don't like how they handled it.  Why would Peter need to consciously make it happen?  Regeneration has always been shown to be a totally passive ability, and he's activated it a few times before without doing anything to his amnesia.

I don't like the healing blood transfusion thing.  If Kensei, and by extension Claire, can heal people via blood transfusion, then what, exactly, was the point of giving Linderman the ability to heal others?  Beyond that, it doesn't fit with what we've seen so far.  Regeneration, like all abilities, comes from the brain, so after blood has been removed from a regenerator's body and disconnected from the brain, it should just be ordinary blood.

The timeline has some problems if you start to think about it.  Nathan was healed 3 weeks ago, and it definitely took the actor longer than that to grow his beard.  A cargo ship would take at least 4 or 5 days to get from New York to Ireland, yet Peter seemed to be perfectly healthy when we saw him in episode 1.  I guess I'll just have to repeat the last few lines of the MST3k theme song to myself and ignore it.

I actually enjoyed most of Niki's storyline this week, but I still don't like the direction that her storyline has taken.  The MDP issue is really tired and should have ended with Jessica, and I agree with you guys about DL's death being really lame.
[/spoiler]

[detourne_me]

about the company and their drugs:
[spoiler]i don't think it actually is a specific power inhibitor drug.   its probably just a boatload of tranqs and prozac or something.  you think it seriously took two months for Peter to realize he was imprisoned?  I think he was just so doped up to the point where he was unable to activate his powers.  for example look at Niki's medication,  I've got a friend who was under a similar medication for a while.  he literally slept 12 hours a day, and ate a lot, Niki looked as if she was in a depressed paralyzed state.

I think the company just handed out tranqs and lied about it being a semi-cure.[/spoiler]