Heroes Season 2 Open Discussion

[OutsiderNo11]

about the company and their drugs:
[spoiler]i don't think it actually is a specific power inhibitor drug.   its probably just a boatload of tranqs and prozac or something.  you think it seriously took two months for Peter to realize he was imprisoned?  I think he was just so doped up to the point where he was unable to activate his powers.  for example look at Niki's medication,  I've got a friend who was under a similar medication for a while.  he literally slept 12 hours a day, and ate a lot, Niki looked as if she was in a depressed paralyzed state.

I think the company just handed out tranqs and lied about it being a semi-cure.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Agreed.  And knowing that Peter's ability stems from his own thoughts, dulling his mind was the best way to deal with him.  Same with Niki as her powers are similiar to Gladiator's in that her strength is relative to her confidence.

One thing that really annoyed about his episode was what happened to Sylar.  They went over pretty much everyone else of importance, even giving us two scenes with Maya and Alejandro explaining how they realized their own powers.  But for some reason, they didn't include a scene with Bob overlooking surgery on Sylar and administering the viral agent to test on him or him ordering "Michelle" to keep an eye on him.  At this point I'm convinced that they could have done this whole season without Sylar at all and nothing much would have changed.  I find it doubtful that he will even be a large part of the final story and even if he is, it won't be significant in comparison to others.  I'm betting that Adam will kill him, after Sylar manages to acquire all his powers again.

I'm still convinced that they could have reserved Maya and Alejandro's story to Heroes Origins.  Unless Maya is destined to kill Adam, then there is no point to their story, especially given the timeframe in Volume 2.[/spoiler]

[Conduit]

About the drugs:

[spoiler]
First of all, Niki wasn't taking them.  One of the pills that Peter was taking does look similar to Niki's pills, but he was taking a few others with it, and a lot of pills are red and white, at least on television.  I doubt they were tranquilizers or anything.  Peter seemed pretty normal when he was on them.  Other than suppressing his powers, they didn't seem to do anything.  So without any evidence to the contrary, I just have to assume that Elle was telling the truth, and they are a power inhibitor.
[/spoiler]

[Conduit]

That was much improved.  I really liked this episode, but I still have some things I'd like to say here.

[spoiler]
I have absolutely no complaints about Hiro and Matt's storylines.  They were some of the best stuff this show has done.  They more than make up for the bad parts of this episode.  If they can keep this up, then I won't even think of giving up on this show.  There were a few inconsistencies with them, though, like how no one at the funeral noticed the older Kaito.  I was willing to forgive little things like that.

The Bennets' storyline was a very mixed bag.  Parts of it were as good as last as some of last season's best.  The other parts were very bad.  West is as bad as ever (though somewhat less useless), and he's starting to seriously damage other characters.  Claire is acting totally out of character.  In her tantrum at the beginning of the episode, she said that she had never seen anyone more terrified than West when he saw HRG.  So he was more terrified than her family at any point in Company Man, Peter when he was seconds away from killing millions of people and Jackie when Sylar killed her?  Claire's known about the bag and tag missions for months, she's met a guy who killed his wife because HRG let him go without telling him the risks of his power.  There's no reason for her to get upset now because of West, and the same goes for Sandra.  He's been a total jerk to Claire since they've met and now she's willing to give up her whole family just to continue to see him, and feels that she's the one who needs to apologize?  I'm not even going to talk about Sandra's line that HRG is like West.  I did, however very much enjoy seeing him get beat up by HRG and shocked by Elle, and he had a few cool moments.  For a more minor complaint, I think that they overplayed HRG's ruthlessness somewhat.

I'm very glad to see that HRG is sticking around, and the revival scene was very well done.  That does not, however, change the fact that it's a big cop out, and it has the potential to drastically reduce the dramatic tension of this show.  If no one can die, then why should we be worried about anything?

All of that aside, this was still an excellent episode, and I hope that the next 2 are at least as good, and that this continues whenever the next season starts.
[/spoiler]

[GhostMachine]

Conduit...

[spoiler]Quite frankly, with Hiro around, anyone could potentially be brought back if they die, if you think about it.[/spoiler]

Best thing about this week's episode? NO MAYA AND ALEJANDRO!!!

Now, as to the episode itself....

[spoiler]I'm glad there was a swerve with what happened. Before the reveal at the end, when they showed Mohindar in the van looking at the gun, I was thinking "okay, now stick it in your mouth and pull the trigger".

Adam turning out to be the killer was disappointing. I was hoping for a swerve and that it would turn out to be Claude (Christopher Eccelston's character from the first season), West or Nathan.[/spoiler]

[Conduit]

[spoiler]

Quite frankly, with Hiro around, anyone could potentially be brought back if they die, if you think about it.

No, he can't just bring anyone back to life.  His quest to save Charlie was supposed to prove that time travel can't fix everything.
[/spoiler]

[GhostMachine]

[spoiler]

Quite frankly, with Hiro around, anyone could potentially be brought back if they die, if you think about it.

No, he can't just bring anyone back to life.  His quest to save Charlie was supposed to prove that time travel can't fix everything.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]What I meant is, Hiro is a deus ex machina, more or less; if the writers decide that killing someone off was a mistake, they could in fact have Hiro go back and save them (even if he does it inadvertantly) if they wanted. Doesn't mean they'd ever actually do it, however.

And more than likely it would be Peter doing it than Hiro, come to think of it, because I don't think Peter would have as much of a problem `playing God' as Hiro would....if he ever gains decent control of the time travel powers, that is.[/spoiler]

[Viking]

A-HA!!!   I am now one step closer to finalizing my Universal Theories on Time Travel in Heroes!

[spoiler]
1) If several episodes are spent showing the resulting series of events from a major occurrence (like a death), then that major occurrence cannot be changed via time travel.

2) However, if only a single episode is spent exploring the future repercussions of a major occurrence, then that major occurrence can be averted.
[/spoiler]

[BWPS]

[spoiler]

Quite frankly, with Hiro around, anyone could potentially be brought back if they die, if you think about it.

Ditto for Claire/Doogie Howser, M.D.Adam's blood. From now on every death should involve travelling back to the beginning of time, severing the victim's head and throwing it into the sun. Wow, that's lame. Thank god I don't write for this show.[/spoiler]

[lugaru]

Not necessarily. She could simply be ejcted from that future to show up back in that warehouse,

Something like that happened to Bishop at one point.

Btw I loved the final scene of last episode but I hope doing that dosent become commonplace, or the show will lose a lot of it's weight.

[Jakew]

I just read an article with Tim Kring apologising to fans for Season 2 of Heroes ... am I the only one who hasn't noticed a drop in quality between Season 1 and 2? I thought the pacing was fine, the acting had improved and the plot-holes were a lot smaller. We even got a fair bit of hero vs hero action in there (compared to Season 1).

[BentonGrey]

I think it's definitely got its weaknesses, but I agree that it's not significantly worse than the first season.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

... am I the only one who hasn't noticed a drop in quality between Season 1 and 2? I thought the pacing was fine, the acting had improved and the plot-holes were a lot smaller. We even got a fair bit of hero vs hero action in there

No, I agree with you, the problem is people have strangely forgotten what the first season was like and have an idealized version of it that nothing else can possibly live up to.

I mean people complained about the pace of Season 2 being too slow, but it was not nearly as slow as the first half of Season 1.

In fact, in Kring's apology, he didn't apologize for not living up to Season 1, he apologized for for trying to, basically, instead of trying to live up to expectations.  I have no doubt that the changes he is talking about will improve the show, but the haters are the ones with the issues.

Sorry folks who fall into that category ('cause this topic is made for you anyway) but that's how I see it.

[BentonGrey]

Cat, I hardly think that this topic exists purely for people with an irrational view of the quality of season 1.  It exists so people can talk about all aspects of the show without worrying about "ruining someone's enjoyment," which is rather ridiculous in my opinion.  I enjoy reading a good critique of the show, one which incorporates both the good and the bad.  I also enjoy the unfettered speculation that can be done here.  Since those things apparently offends some people, we can't do that in the other thread.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I also enjoy the unfettered speculation that can be done here.  Since those things apparently offends some people, we can't do that in the other thread.

Not true.  It was the constant complaining about how much worse Season 2 was than Season 1 that was bothering some people.  It wasn't offending them, they were giving up on the show because all they could think about it was negative stuff that they read on the forums.

If it was only some negativity, there would have never been a problem.

That being said, people have generally been happy with the last few episodes, so the worst is over.

[thalaw2]

[spoiler] Could it be that Claire and HRG are children of Adam, sister and brother respectively?  It would make sense since Adam is more than 400 years old...Having children 20 or 30 or more years apart is no problem for him.[/spoiler]

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

That makes absolutely no sense, and contradicts some things that have already been revealed.

One hint--we now know how long Adam's been locked up, since the 70's, and Claire's only 17.

[thalaw2]

Maybe Claire is older than we think she is...after all regeneration slows down the aging process.  Maybe "The Company" erased all of her previous memories of her past life and set up a sound stage somewhere and placed false memories in her head...but she was busted out before they could um...lace her bones with adamantium.


OR

Maybe Hiro has to travel back in time to fight Adam before he does something sinister that will destroy the world or at least his foes.  Hiro goes back to the 1990's fights Adam and has to take him to the 1970's for imprisonment, because it was during that time that Adam made a crucial move that set him up to destroy his enemies at the turn of the millennium.   

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

You're just making things up.

By the way, we already know that Claire was a young infant when handed over to HRG.  This was actually shown in one episode.  It's also been established that she is Nathan's daughter and Mrs. Petrelli's grandaughter, a fact which was just repeated the last episode, I believe while Matt was mindscanning her, so no deception there.

As for HRG being his son, that's so far-fetched I won't even bother to comment on it.

[Sevenforce]

[spoiler]I think they may be confused with HRG healing from the bullet wound. It's not entirely clear Claire's blood healed him. However, I must agree with Cat - most of that, going from what we've seen before, is quite hard to lineup with your hypothesis...and is quite, uh, far fetched. Although cat is much more eloquent :P [/spoiler]

[starlock]

This might be my least favorite episode by far, i can feel the rush to end the season and get thru this writers strike.....

That said ...bad episode for so many reasons... :thumbdown:

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

What!  I thought it was one of the better ones.

First folks complain when it's too slow, now they're complaining that it's not slow enough.

By the way, this was all written and being produced before the writers strike.  They had planned to end the story at episode 11 from the beginning.  They did change the ending of next episode in case it's the last one of the season, but that's the ONLY difference the strike has made.

[Tomato]

That said ...bad episode for so many reasons... :thumbdown:

Really now? Could you then Elaborate on your reasoning behind it being your "least favorite episode by far", so that we can actually review them, not just "I didn't like it because it was STOOPID!"

This is a discussion thread. Oddly enough, that means you "discuss"

I don't mind if you don't like something, but you can't just post "I didn't like it!" it's an unnescessary negative statement, and despite this being the place for negative comments, those comments are to be tethered with actual reasons and not pointless statements.

[BentonGrey]

Cat, there were also people complaining about the speculation going on in the other thread, so that was also part of the issue.  Maybe offend isn't the right word, but that's splitting hairs.

Goodness gracious people, if he didn't like it, that's his prerogative.  I would like to hear his reasons too, but it's not the end of the world if we don't.

As far as I'm concerned, I am somewhat ambivalent about this episode.  Something about it felt a little off to me, and I can't quite put my finger on it. 
[spoiler]I know Peter's acting seems to have actually gotten WORSE this episode, but other than that...Anyway, there were still tons of things I loved, but there were also a couple of holes and things that I really hated.  Mohinder has really taken a turn for the worst, as far as I'm concerned.  He KILLS HRG in cold blood, then after restoring him, he locks him away from his family.  Man, that's cruel.  Mohinder is really turning into a jerk.  Here's something that bothered me, West can fly crazy fast, right?  So it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal for him to visit Claire in Utah.  I mean, he could visit her once a week if he wanted.  The biggest thing that bothered me was the fact that Sylar found where Mohinder and Parkman were living with Molly.  How?  No one knows where they are! 

Still, the episode had a lot of great things going for it.  Claire's reaction to her Dad's death was touching, even her wanting to wipe away her memories.  She did a good job with that.  Her Mom should have shot Bob.  I'm definitely starting to lose all the sympathy I had for the company.  It was great to get some answers about the way in which Adam is manipulating Peter.  I like how they brought everything together.  It looks like we're going to have quite a finale next week!

That said, there was one more thing that bothered me.  Why would Hiro just attack Peter without taking the time to talk to him?  I mean, it's not like Adam is going anywhere, and he knows Peter.  That was a bit frustrating.

Ohh!  And was I the only one who was disappointed by Echo-girl's abortive attempt at heroics?  I mean, I understand what they're doing, and it doesn't bother me or anything.  It's just that I was hoping for more.[/spoiler]

[aj4life16]

That said ...bad episode for so many reasons... :thumbdown:

Really now? Could you then Elaborate on your reasoning behind it being your "least favorite episode by far", so that we can actually review them, not just "I didn't like it because it was STOOPID!"

This is a discussion thread. Oddly enough, that means you "discuss"

I don't mind if you don't like something, but you can't just post "I didn't like it!" it's an unnescessary negative statement, and despite this being the place for negative comments, those comments are to be tethered with actual reasons and not pointless statements.

Don't like pointless posts. Why post that then?  :huh:

[Conduit]

[spoiler]

The biggest thing that bothered me was the fact that Sylar found where Mohinder and Parkman were living with Molly.  How?  No one knows where they are!

Mohinder, Parkman and Molly are all living in Mohinder's apartment, which is the same one from Season One.  Sylar visited that place last season, so he just headed over there and got lucky when he found that Molly is now living with Mohinder.

On another note, I'm a little dissapointed at how little we've found out about the group of elder heroes.  This story arc was supposed to be about their story and with it coming to a close we only know the powers of 5 of them.  I really would have liked to see Victoria use her power this episode.
[/spoiler]

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Benton, in addition to what Conduit pointed out:

[spoiler]
Mohinder DIDN'T kill HRG in cold blood.  HRG was about to kill Bob in cold blood (arguably, he has a reason of sorts) and Mohinder was defending Bob.  The way I see it, he didn't really have any choice.  He didn't want to kill him, and bringing him back again is very much in character.

As for him being kept from his family--I got the impression that he wasn't sure if it would work.  What were they supposed to do--leave the family hanging without a body?
[/spoiler]

[thalaw2]

Ok...well maybe that sample of blood taken from Claire healed HRG....but she could still be Adam's daughter. 

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Let me repeat for you again, slowly.

Claire is only 17.  She was shown as an infant 17 years ago.  Adam's been locked away for 30 years.  In addition, it has clearly been established that Nathan is her father.  While Matt was interrogating Mrs. Petrelli, this fact was brought up and he detected no dishonesty.  Add this to the fact that children of supers do not normally have their parents power (with multiple example of this and only one exception) and people who are not related in any known way sometimes do.  (West and Nathan)

There is therefore absolutely no way she is his daughter.  Descendant of some kind, maybe, but most definitely not daughter.

[Adamence]

Lack of dishonesty does not equal truth.  I can make all kinds of wild claims with absolute honesty and they could be wildly untrue. 

George Costanza once said that "It's not a lie if you believe it."  If Mrs. Petrelli believes that Nathan really is Claire's father (possibly because that's what Nathan told her because that's what Claire's birth mother told him) then she would make the claim that Claire is her granddaughter without any sort of dishonesty. 

As for Adam being locked up for 30 years, with all the time traveling that's possible, there could have been plenty of opportunities for Peter (or maybe even Hiro) to take Adam back in time for whatever reason, or it's entirely possible that over that 30 year span Adam broke out at some point.  I'm sure over the course of 30 years that he would have tried to escape a time or two. 

I don't necessarily believe that Adam is Claire's father, but I can see how the possibility would be there. 

...but she could still be Adam's daughter. 

Which is exactly what I see suggested here.

[BentonGrey]

Conduit:  Ohh!  I COMPLETELY didn't see that.  It doesn't really look all that similar to me, but I suppose that is only a matter of my being unobservant.  That makes me much happier, because that perceived plot hole really bothered me.

Benton, in addition to what Conduit pointed out:

[spoiler]
Mohinder DIDN'T kill HRG in cold blood.  HRG was about to kill Bob in cold blood (arguably, he has a reason of sorts) and Mohinder was defending Bob.  The way I see it, he didn't really have any choice.  He didn't want to kill him, and bringing him back again is very much in character.

As for him being kept from his family--I got the impression that he wasn't sure if it would work.  What were they supposed to do--leave the family hanging without a body?
[/spoiler]

Cat:

[spoiler]I don't think it's quite that easy Cat.  Mohinder hit HRG IN the freakin' eye, that's a pretty dead on shot.  That tells me that he probably could have shot him in the arm, the gut, the leg, anything else that would have disabled him without killing him.  He outright MURDERED a fellow who he was friends with a few weeks ago, all on the strength of the word of a man who is, in Mohinder's own words "morally gray."  Yes, he DID bring him back, but as you pointed out, he didn't KNOW that the blood would heal him, meaning that he MURDERED HRG knowing full well that he could be ending his former friend's life forever.  Even though he's brought him back, HRG is still left locked up in a Company facility.  Mohinder didn't indicate that he would be letting him out any time soon.  In fact, he pretty much told him "screw you."[/spoiler]