Ultimate-verse

[Ajax]

If Marvel ever reboots the ultimate universe or something like it, what should they do differently? Should they do what they did last time and just retell stories but condensed and updated for a new generation? Or should they try and tell the stories in a new way with as little in common with their 616 counter parts as possible?

[Podmark]

If Marvel ever reboots the ultimate universe or something like it, what should they do differently? Should they do what they did last time and just retell stories but condensed and updated for a new generation? Or should they try and tell the stories in a new way with as little in common with their 616 counter parts as possible?

Well Marvel keeps hinting that they're going to destroy the Ultimate universe soon.

In my opinion:

-Ultimate Spider-Man was exactly what it should be, the only major issue I had with it was pacing.
-Ultimates was excellent as well
-Ultimate X-men was a mess from issue one. It dropped you into the middle of the story rather than begining with the actual start. Too much rehashing and generally odd storytelling. Not what an Ultimate title should have been.
-Ultimate FF I have similar feelings as Ult X-Men but I never really read enough of it.


So if they did it all over again I'd probably stick to what was done with Ultimates and Ult Spidey. Spidey works best as a mix of both old and new, while Ultimates worked really well as a unique design. I just don't think Avengers works that well in a modern concept, and I always felt Ultimates was the prefect modernization of it. Not sure how the Loeb version will turn out, but the preview art looks great.

[murs47]

That is a real good question actually. I'll answer that broadly and say a bit of both.

I like how they retold a story but it was from slightly to incredibly different. It just needs the right writer..cough,cough....bring back Millar.....cough. Excuse me. :P

[murs47]

-Ultimate X-men was a mess from issue one. It dropped you into the middle of the story rather than begining with the actual start. Too much rehashing and generally odd storytelling. Not what an Ultimate title should have been.

I thought Millar's run was excellent. Kirkman's was pretty good too. I stopped reading after Ultimate Cable.

[Podmark]

-Ultimate X-men was a mess from issue one. It dropped you into the middle of the story rather than begining with the actual start. Too much rehashing and generally odd storytelling. Not what an Ultimate title should have been.

I thought Millar's run was excellent. Kirkman's was pretty good too. I stopped reading after Ultimate Cable.

My problems with Ult  X-Men stemmed from conception. I didn't feel it really fit the idea of the Ultimate universe. It just felt like an X-Men reboot rather than a modernization and gateway book that the ultimate line was meant to be. I read most of the run and it was alright storytelling but I never felt like a proper Ultimate title.

[Ajax]

I kinda wish they would tell new stories with the ultimate-verse. My problem stems from what I call the "Ultimate Deadpool WTF!!!!" as I dubbed it. Remember how crappy they designed ult deadpool from a physical standpoint and as a character? Well I always felt like they were trying to hard to retool all the characters and this bogged down the universe. Wouldn't it be easier if they just started out with the basic premise of each of the title chars (Spidey/X-Men/etc) and just went in a new direction with different villains/allies/etc with maybe a few characters from the original story? Not only easier but more intersting since you will be delivering new content.

[Podmark]

I kinda wish they would tell new stories with the ultimate-verse. My problem stems from what I call the "Ultimate Deadpool WTF!!!!" as I dubbed it. Remember how crappy they designed ult deadpool from a physical standpoint and as a character? Well I always felt like they were trying to hard to retool all the characters and this bogged down the universe. Wouldn't it be easier if they just started out with the basic premise of each of the title chars (Spidey/X-Men/etc) and just went in a new direction with different villains/allies/etc with maybe a few characters from the original story? Not only easier but more intersting since you will be delivering new content.

Wasn't really the purpose of the line. I could go either way on it though. It comes down to a question of whether writers could come up with worthwhile stories on a regular basis without revisiting characters and concepts.

I do agree with you that the line sometimes gets bogged down with creating ultimate versions of characters. It was one of the stronger points of Ultimates that it didn't bother with that.

[zuludelta]

I think the problem with the Ultimate line was a lack of thematic focus and line-wide direction. The Ultimates and Ultimate Fantastic Four (to a limited extent) have done a good job of re-packaging and re-telling classic 616 Avengers and FF stories in a way that they are more compelling to older novice comic book readers (or lapsed Marvel fans such as myself who aren't interested in keeping up with all the changes going on in the 616 continuity) while Ultimate Spider-Man has managed to do the same for a similar but younger reader demographic. But where can they go once they've mined the best classic stories for inspiration?

I think the biggest weakness of the line was an inability to sustain an interest outside of the "re-telling and re-imagining" angle... my interest in many of the stories only extended as far as I was familiar with the 616 stories and themes that they were referencing. Any storylines wholly indigenous to the Ultimate Marvel setting didn't really interest me all that much (which is why I didn't really care for most of the Ultimate X-Men stories, although I applaud the creative teams' attempts at distinguishing it from the rest of the line). The Ultimate characters were of interest to me only as updates of the 616 characters, but not as stand-alone characters. And as the distinction between the portrayals of the Ultimate characters and the 616 characters became fuzzier and fuzzier, I found myself losing interest in the imprint.

For instance, why should I care about Ultimate Punisher when Ennis' work on Punisher (MAX) or Fraction's work on Punisher War Journal is more hard-edged and contains more of the twisted black humour I appreciate in the best Punisher stories? Why should I invest in the upcoming Ultimates 3 when I can find a full dose of post-spandex superheroics in books like Mark Millar's Wanted, Ellis' Nextwave, Ennis and Robertson's The Boys, or in The Immortal Iron Fist? Why should I settle for the science fiction lite of Ultimate Fantastic Four when I can get the real thing in Doktor Sleepless? Even Ultimate Spider-Man, perhaps the best Ultimate book in terms of accessibility, is only a hair more interesting to me than Marvel Adventures Spider-Man (and only because of Stuart Immonen's amazing art), the all-ages book that retells classic Spider-Man stories in a modern setting.

The Ultimate line has lost its hook... and I really think it hasn't offered anything that can't be found in the 616 universe since Ultimates 2 ended. They really need a better reason for readers to care about the Ultimate characters besides making them modern versions of the classic heroes... because for all intents and purposes, the 616 heroes have caught up with the times and are just as contemporary as the Ultimate ones are right now (and many of the Ultimate characters look positively dated by now). What they need is to define what types of good superhero stories, for some reason or another, can't be told in the 616 setting, and then set out to tell those stories with the Ultimate line. 

   

[aj4life16]

I have read every Ultimate Universe comic accept Adventures.

Loving it.  :wub:

[lugaru]

I agree with Zulu that there are better things to read right now than the Ultimate line.

Still I love the idea of the ultimate universe and loved a lot of the comics (especially ultimates) but they just need to keep it more different... I mean if two alternate timelines can have vast differences why not do that more often in the ultimate universe? Their punisher was pretty much the movie punisher... same guy in all senses but younger. BORING. Daredevil and Elektra... where daredevil and elektra. Meh.

Hopefully they will put out one or two more series and start doign some crazy 'make the fans angry' changes that are totally safe within the petry dish that is the ultimate universe.

[HumanTon]

To my mind they should scrap the Ultimateverse, which now has a continuity just as tangled as 616, and instead do completely out-of-continuity minis with interesting and unusual creators ... rather like what DC has done with it's All-Star line (but um more like All-Star Superman than Batman.)

[Verfall]

If the Ultimateverse could get out of constantly re-hashing old 616 storylines, and stop trying so hard to be "mature and EXTREME" and just go about telling good stories in our modern setting, it'll be around for a long time.

Instead all I've seen is writers trying to one-up previous writers by using the basis of their ideas, but throwing their, often unwanted, pieces of flair into the mix. Making Ult Cap more 1940's in mindset, ok, but turning him into a brazen hardass who beats people just because he thinks he's write is essentially crapping on the original character. Ditto Jan and Hanks whole fiasco, killing off Hawkeye's family and having Black Widow be the traitor. Nothing like throwing "adult issues" in with "women in refrigerators syndrome" and "the russians are still evil" into one book. I admit I liked what they did with Iron Man and Thor, and Hawkeye is a great character as well.

I've only read the Ultimate's based stuff mind you, I haven't really looked at the X men or Spidey and the FF. I did like what they did with Venom, based on what I've read at wiki and through the game, and overall I'd probably pick up Ult Spidey trades if I could find the damn things. After seeing Ult Wolvie versus Ult Hulk, I basically decided the Ult X men isn't worth my time, and I was never a fan of any incarnation of the FF, so that book doesn't interest me anyway.


But hell, with the amount of stupidity running through the 616, the Ult Uni seems more appealing anyway. I'll take drunk, super regeneration, brain tumor Tony over whatever the hell they've turned him into thanks to Civil War.

[Jakew]

I only enjoyed The Ultimates. Even Ultimate Spidey left me cold.

[zuludelta]

To my mind they should scrap the Ultimateverse, which now has a continuity just as tangled as 616, and instead do completely out-of-continuity minis with interesting and unusual creators ... rather like what DC has done with it's All-Star line (but um more like All-Star Superman than Batman.)

I'd be totally interested in something like that, as some of my favourite Marvel tales are non-canon/non-continuity/parallel reality/loose continuity stories meant to showcase a creative team's respective take on established heroes more than anything else: Stan Lee and Moebius' Silver Surfer: Parable, Garth Ennis' work on Punisher (MAX), Millar and Hitch's Ultimates, and James Sturm and Guy Davis' hugely underrated fictional biography of the "real" Fantastic Four, Fantastic Four: Unstable Molecules (which showed the fictional lives of the four people whom Stan Lee and Kirby based the characters of the Fantastic Four on). 

[Uncle Yuan]

Blow the sucker up.  I've only read a handful of issues, so keep in mind what my opinion is worth.  But I feel that the whole concept was wrong-headed and the stories I've read are interesting enough, but often seem to defile the spirit of the main stream source characters.

[Previsionary]

Awhile ago I would have been against the ultimate verse ending since they do have some good books in their ranks, but I'm really all for ultimate X-men ending or being rebooted just because of how bad it's literally become. Ultimate X-men writers (currently) have a problem of trying to force the book to be like the 616 books and that's a horrible way to go. Even some of the other changes current writer(s) have done have been awkward and mostly bad. CLick below for spoilers:

[spoiler]1. Magician arc- Yay for a new non 616 character. Boo for how he was handled and not followed up on. Also, he was way annoying.

2. Emma Frost is surprisingly the white queen- This one is odd because the emma shown before Kirkman took over her seemed like she was into helping and protecting the mutant race. I suppose she's evil now...shocker

3. Beast is not dead and not furry- The one thing I liked about the ultimate verse was that it initially had the Exiles rule in effect. Dead meant dead and Beast went out in a pretty good way. Then he suddenly reappears, is normal, and chases after Storm again (who in turn moves away from Wolverine)

4. Professor walks- hrm...616 professor walks now too...ironic, no?

5. Cable= Wolverine- I would be able to accept this if the premise wasnt so odd and he didn't act so much like 616 cable with claws. Also, I think he's taller than wolvie...

6. Cyclops/Havok...who's older- Another case in which writers keep forgetting that alex is the older brother in this universe. Maybe Havok shouldn't have been introduced at all. *shrugs*

7. Phoenix- I was initially ok with the new phoenix take, but I dunno about that anymore. Coupled with the fact that jean and emma had a mini spat just reinforces that the writers are pushing for 616 personalities.

8. Australian X-men- Why they took up base in Australia makes no sense really. The line-up doesn't really make any sense but at least it's not a carbon copy of 616. Bishop doesn't make any sense. Psylocke marrying Bishop and acting like a teenager (because she's trapped in a teenagers body) doesn't make any sense...I think you get what I'm saying. :P

9. Colossus is gay- I don't really care about colossus's sexual orientation, but I don't really need it referenced in every arc I decide to read.

10. Legacy virus- Nick fury creation to duplicate captain america, eh? While it's a twist, I really don't want to reread stories that have just ended--what--6 years ago?

11. Hellfire- Similarly to how I don't want to reread stories from the 90s that have just ended, I don't want to read about the hellfire club bringing out dark phoenix
[/spoiler]

That's only some of the things that bother me. Most of this post may have been negative, but I honestly really like UXM before the Magician arc. The cable arc just made me check on the book periodically. I guess the only thing that I might check out now is ultimate apocalypse (and he looks sucky) before calling it complete quits.

[zuludelta]

Good points prev. One thing about Ultimate Wolverine/Ultiamte Cable though... I think Ultimate Wolverine is actually a statuesque 6'1" in height instead of the borderline dwarf in the 616 universe.

Ultimates 3 came out this week but I haven't picked it up. I did get the Ultimate Universe Preview a couple of weeks back, that had a good half-dozen pages from upcoming books (including Ultimates 3 #1). You can really tell that Joe Madureira's been away from comics for too long. I've always liked his stylized art but his storytelling, sadly, hasn't improved from the mid-1990s trend of overdoing irregular panels and directionless framing. There just isn't any focus to all the action going on. Coupled with the fact that they've decided to forgo with inking and coloured on top of the pencils, everything seems to run together in a overly-filtered mess. Maybe it's a lot better in the final product but the preview didn't really get my hopes up.

[thanoson]

So, what ever happened to the 2nd Ult Wolverine vs Ult Hulk? It just dropped off the face of the earth.

[murs47]

dunno...been anxiously waiting for that to finish though.

[Previsionary]

So, what ever happened to the 2nd Ult Wolverine vs Ult Hulk? It just dropped off the face of the earth.

IIRC, 2 books came out and the other issues were plagued with delays. Last I heard, it was canceled until all the issues had been completed and they would come out sometime in 2008...at this point, I'm thinking they should just release it as a tpb because who honestly remembers the first 2 issues and the lead in issues to this event?