Champions Online

[Verfall]

Actually, I think CoH blows CoV out of the water in every conceivable way.  CoV is just a more linear, more repitative version of CoH with different dialogue where everything is shaded grey.  CoH is infinitely more replayble.

So you like doing hunt missions? And having to cross 5 zones to get to your mission? And having no real storyline to play with at all? CoV is CoH, only everything is fixed. The hunt missions are gone, the travel system is better, the contacts are much more fleshed out. Hell, you don't even hit the "linear" portion till 40, and you don't even have to do the patron contacts if you so choose.

I actually expect CO to borrow heavily from CoV, and practically not at all from CoH.

As for the fighting generic villains, it's not going to change in CO. You'll still have very few real villain fights. The Arch Nemesis thing sounds interesting, but you're still going to have to fight a few thousand Champion Brand Hellions to get to your next level. Plus you'll probably get the added bonus of farming specific mobs for that one helmet you'll need.

And I still believe they should have allowed people to gimp themselves. There are plenty of people who like to play weak toons, just as there are many who like to play over-powered monstrosities.

Oh as for this,

For pete's sake, heroes can't even interact with a burning building in a manner true to the genre...superheroes with innate powers more than suitable for handling the situation are forced to get (and keep refilled) water cannons Super Mario style and particpate in an immersion breaking mini-game.

That's not quite true, people with ice based powers can put the fires out with them.

[Conduit]

I was reading somemore from the CO website.  I love the description of Millenium City: http://www.champions-online.com/worlds/millennium_city

It definitely has a Paragon City feel to it.  But then again, Paragon City doesn't have Viper Agents lurking about it's alleys! 

Speaking of Millenium City, this game was interesting enough that I looked into it.  I found this in Millenium City's wikipedia article:

Millennium City is set apart from other cities in the Champions universe due to its extremely advanced technology. The whole city is surrounded by "The Loop", an intelligent highway. Only cars equipped with Vehicle Control Chips (VCCs) can enter the city, by one of eight gateways, and then they are controlled by a central computer and shuttled to their destination. "Normal" cars are required to park at garages at the gateways and their owners commute or rent VCC-equipped vehicles to drive into the city.

So one computer (presumably owned and run by the city government) controls all of the motor vehicles in the city?  Is it just me, or is this idea completely insane?  You can't drive to the grocery without the government knowing exactly where you are.  It sounds like something out of 1984.  And if a hacker (or supervillain, considering the setting) got control of that thing, the possibilities are endless.  They could kill anyone they want by crashing their car, or if they're at home, by driving an 18-wheeler through their house.  They could prevent police from responding to crimes by stopping police cars in their tracks.  And if they're feeling really destructive, they could pick an important building and crash a dozen fuel tankers into it at once.

Maybe Champions is meant to have a more optomistic Silver-Age like feel, but still.

[Lightning Bug]

So you like doing hunt missions? And having to cross 5 zones to get to your mission? And having no real storyline to play with at all? CoV is CoH, only everything is fixed. The hunt missions are gone, the travel system is better, the contacts are much more fleshed out. Hell, you don't even hit the "linear" portion till 40, and you don't even have to do the patron contacts if you so choose.

I actually expect CO to borrow heavily from CoV, and practically not at all from CoH.

As for the fighting generic villains, it's not going to change in CO. You'll still have very few real villain fights. The Arch Nemesis thing sounds interesting, but you're still going to have to fight a few thousand Champion Brand Hellions to get to your next level. Plus you'll probably get the added bonus of farming specific mobs for that one helmet you'll need.

And I still believe they should have allowed people to gimp themselves. There are plenty of people who like to play weak toons, just as there are many who like to play over-powered monstrosities.

Oh as for this,

For pete's sake, heroes can't even interact with a burning building in a manner true to the genre...superheroes with innate powers more than suitable for handling the situation are forced to get (and keep refilled) water cannons Super Mario style and particpate in an immersion breaking mini-game.

That's not quite true, people with ice based powers can put the fires out with them.

In terms of how content is presented, I suspect you're right about borrowing from CoV.  But again, I hope they don't forsake the conventions of the genre in the process. 

And yeah, I forgot about ice powers...but still.  I know they can't implement flying ss/invul. tanks picking up water towers and dumping the contents on the building, but there has to be something better than that mini-game they have now.

[Lightning Bug]

I have to say that I'm pretty stoked about this.  I've always enjoyed the Champions Universe.  For example, I was amused to read about "Stronghold" (the classic super prison) and that the most powerful character in there is "Mentor".  I remember that guy!!!  And I like Doctor D's new look.  As I recall Defender was initially a powered armored hero...this is definitely a new take for him.

I'm going to go dig out my old Champions characters and see if I can't replicate them.  Very exciting!

Does anyone know when CO is to be released and/or how much they plan to charge for it?

This got me thinking...I recently converted Lightning Bug and Triumph to 5th ed. Champions, and was thinking maybe we could post our character write-ups here to share with each other.  If we did, should we use this thread or start another one?

[stumpy]

So one computer (presumably owned and run by the city government) controls all of the motor vehicles in the city?  Is it just me, or is this idea completely insane?  You can't drive to the grocery without the government knowing exactly where you are.  It sounds like something out of 1984.  And if a hacker (or supervillain, considering the setting) got control of that thing, the possibilities are endless.  They could kill anyone they want by crashing their car, or if they're at home, by driving an 18-wheeler through their house.  They could prevent police from responding to crimes by stopping police cars in their tracks.  And if they're feeling really destructive, they could pick an important building and crash a dozen fuel tankers into it at once.

Maybe in comics that sort of Utopian scheme is plausible? My initial reaction to it is the same as yours: it's Orwellian, ripe for abuse, and not likely to work as intended even without anyone deliberately using it to wreak havoc.

But, maybe that could be a story device to add some flavor to some missions or even be a periodic problem people have to deal with. E.g., the system breaks down and there is a need for heroes to deal with any number of civic problems, or a super villain takes over all or part of it and causes trouble...

[Viking]

This got me thinking...I recently converted Lightning Bug and Triumph to 5th ed. Champions, and was thinking maybe we could post our character write-ups here to share with each other.  If we did, should we use this thread or start another one?

It sounds like a fun project, though I don't have any access to Champions rulebooks.  (Unless they're online somewhere in pdf format, in which case I'd love for someone to point me in the right direction.)  Starting a new thread for such a project seems like the best idea to me - since the Champions Online game is practically certain to construct characters differently than the 5th edition rules, I wouldn't want to confuse the discussion in this thread.

[Valandar]

This got me thinking...I recently converted Lightning Bug and Triumph to 5th ed. Champions, and was thinking maybe we could post our character write-ups here to share with each other.  If we did, should we use this thread or start another one?

It sounds like a fun project, though I don't have any access to Champions rulebooks.  (Unless they're online somewhere in pdf format, in which case I'd love for someone to point me in the right direction.)  Starting a new thread for such a project seems like the best idea to me - since the Champions Online game is practically certain to construct characters differently than the 5th edition rules, I wouldn't want to confuse the discussion in this thread.

If we do, let's use a new thread for it. We'd also probably be best off coming up with a standard "template" to use, otherwise we'd have to look at and interpret something like five or six different styles of sheets.

I also currently have no Champions books. I have an old copy of Fantasy Hero, first printing, copyright 1985 that's in near-mint condition, though, and the books for the Bubblegum Crisis game from the FUZION system (Hero system blended with the Cyberpunk 2020 / Mekton system)...

[BlueBard]

I haven't had any HERO system books in years...

[Uncle Yuan]

I have a bunch of 4th ed stuff, but refuse to buy the grossly overpriced and shoddily printed and bound 5th ed rule book . . .

I am also very bummed about this game - because I won't be able to play.  Residency is not very kind to free time.  And unlike the last several years where I have been away at school, I will be at home and have many other demands on my time.  :(

[captainspud]

I have a bunch of 4th ed stuff, but refuse to buy the grossly overpriced and shoddily printed and bound 5th ed rule book . . .

I am also very bummed about this game - because I won't be able to play.  Residency is not very kind to free time.  And unlike the last several years where I have been away at school, I will be at home and have many other demands on my time.  :(

Easy solution: Become an unpleasant, anti-social lout, to the point where you're fired from your job and your family kicks you out.

Then you'll have lots of time for Champions Online.

[Lightning Bug]

I am also very bummed about this game - because I won't be able to play.  Residency is not very kind to free time.  And unlike the last several years where I have been away at school, I will be at home and have many other demands on my time.  :(

This is precisely the reason I've chosen an unfulfilling and soul-crushing career in IT support...plenty of time for goofing off at work when demands at home won't permit. ;)

[Lightning Bug]

I've started the thread here in this forum.  Feel free to join in...

Also, those of you without Champions books can send one of us that has them some notes on your character and we can write them up...just a thought that might allow more people to participate. 

[Dweomer Knight]

So you like doing hunt missions?

Hunt missions are okay as the occasional break from the 'Click glowie #1 million' missions.  And I get hunt missions in CoV too.  Not as often but they're still there.  Anything that breaks up the Click glowie missions is welcome in my book.  The only hunt mishes that are irritating are the ones you get before you're high enough level to travel relatively safely in the zone required.

And having to cross 5 zones to get to your mission?

It would be more accurate to say that what bothers me is having to wait until lvl 14 to get my travel power and having to take a "pre" power to get it.

And having no real storyline to play with at all?

That's a bummer no doubt.  Too bad it's just as much a bummer in CoV as in CoH.

CoV is CoH, only everything is fixed.

No, it's CoH with less content but wittier dialogue (the best example I can remember is a Freak mish, can't remember which one, where two Freak minions have a fairly lengthy discussion, if you let them, about free will and predestination and what is actually means to be a Freak; they even mention Sartre).

The hunt missions are gone,

They're not gone, just less frequent.  YMMV as to whether you think this is good or not.  I actually like the occasional hunt mission.

the travel system is better,

The travel system being "better" is more a function of the game being so linear rather than any actual improvement in how you travel.  Outside of the vet and bank mishes (on either side) I see no improvement on the travel system in any way.

the contacts are much more fleshed out.

The dialogues are often more witty and amusing if that's what you mean.  Otherwise I don't see much difference.

Hell, you don't even hit the "linear" portion till 40, and you don't even have to do the patron contacts if you so choose.

Uh, no.  The linear portion begins at level 1.  Your choice of first contact has no meaningful impact, you do the Snakes either way and you're referred to as the destined one either way.  My tech Mastermind had Willy Wheeler and then the Golden Roller as contacts.  My mutant dominator got the Golden Roller and then Willy Wheeler as contacts (just one example of many). *yawn*

I actually expect CO to borrow heavily from CoV, and practically not at all from CoH.

I don't expect them to borrow much from either and can think of no good reason for them to do so.

As for the fighting generic villains, it's not going to change in CO. You'll still have very few real villain fights.

Link to what you're basing this on, please.

The Arch Nemesis thing sounds interesting,

I agree.

but you're still going to have to fight a few thousand Champion Brand Hellions to get to your next level. Plus you'll probably get the added bonus of farming specific mobs for that one helmet you'll need.

Link to what you're basing this on, please.

And I still believe they should have allowed people to gimp themselves. There are plenty of people who like to play weak toons, just as there are many who like to play over-powered monstrosities.

I agree.

Oh as for this,

For pete's sake, heroes can't even interact with a burning building in a manner true to the genre...superheroes with innate powers more than suitable for handling the situation are forced to get (and keep refilled) water cannons Super Mario style and particpate in an immersion breaking mini-game.

That's not quite true, people with ice based powers can put the fires out with them.

You're highly specific example doesn't address the main point of his post which your quote doesn't fully cover.

Part of CoH's problem for a player base like the one represented here is that there is a fundamental disconnect between the game world and what ostensibly are its 4-color roots.  As mentioned elsewhere, everything about AV encounters is wrong if you're looking for the most basic superhero genre convention...hero vs. villain battles.  Instead, the developers decided to create what is basically just another MMO, with scads of nameless foes standing around waiting to be defeated.  It shuns these conventions severely enough that a successful comic can't even be created based the CoX universe....in fact, read the final issues of the last failed attempt at a CoH comic and you'll see that the writers basically gave up trying to make the world make sense and broke the 4th wall, introducing game elements that make no sense in the context of a superhero story (I was appaled when the Freedom Phalanx discovered the badge on top of City Hall in Atlas Park).  While the backstory for the CoH universe is filled with really cool stuff that fits the genre perfectly, the present day Paragon City as presented to the gamer is essentially Generic MMO World 018 populated by superheroes with nothing left to do that fits the genre once they've saved the lady getting her purse stolen and stopped a gang from breaking into a warehouse/office building/car.  For pete's sake, heroes can't even interact with a burning building in a manner true to the genre...superheroes with innate powers more than suitable for handling the situation are forced to get (and keep refilled) water cannons Super Mario style and particpate in an immersion breaking mini-game. 

(Don't get me wrong...I love CoH and think it's a great game.  I just don't think it represents the genre well at all, and for players like us I think that makes a large difference in how much enjoyment we get out of it.)

I think you've hit the nail on the head here.

In terms of the genre, CoV is even worse.

I agree.  Even Jack agrees.  In a recent interview he stated that their big mistake with CoV was not taking into account what players, as villains, would want to do in a villainous game.  This is why, again by his own admission, CoV added little to the subscription base for the game as a whole.

Maybe Champions is meant to have a more optomistic Silver-Age like feel, but still.

I don't think of nuking Detroit out of existence as particularly optimitstic (unless you really hate Detroit :unsure:) but I think you're partially right.  My reading of it was that M. City was supposed to be the city the represents the "humanity at it's best" concept.  And there are hordes of heroes even apart from the Champion group themselves to ensure it stays that way.  I do agree that some ideas could have been developed/written up a bit better though.

DK

[GhostMachine]

I'll dig out my Champions 4th edition hardback and see what I can come up with, but if I do a character sheet for GhostMachine, it'll be the Freedom Force version of the character rather than the CoH version.

And welcome back, LB. Still playing WoW and LoTR?

[Lightning Bug]

I'll dig out my Champions 4th edition hardback and see what I can come up with, but if I do a character sheet for GhostMachine, it'll be the Freedom Force version of the character rather than the CoH version.

And welcome back, LB. Still playing WoW and LoTR?

Hey GM :) 

Yeah, I still have active accounts, but I don't get to play much since the baby came.  I feel bad goofing off while Barbie takes care of her, so...hopefully as she gets older and we get into a routine there will be more time *crosses fingers*

[Verfall]

Bunch of stuff.

I could do the point by point thing, but the pain of it would drive me batty.

All I'm seeing is you're in this weird minority who seems to be a CoX masochist.

As for my assumptions on CO, I make them based on the fact we're talking about an MMO. Regardless of the genre, regardless of what new systems they come up with, every MMO is either "kill this many mobs to level" or "mine this many fish to level". The odds of CO being any different in its core playstyle are practically nil. They may try, but in the end every game falls back on the "kill 500 hellions, than maybe fight a boss" style of MMO.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you people expect FF the MMO. It just won't happen. They need to cater to the grind crowd, because in the end they're the ones who end up playing 5 accounts and farming gold. Won't that be fun, CO is going to have loot right off the bat, and CoX players are already complaining about spammers, expect it tenfold in CO. We're spoiled by CoX in regards to a lot of MMO standards they managed to avoid to some degree, but everything I've read seems to show Cryptic is actually grabbing hold of those standards, since they've been proven to be guaranteed money. They basically want to make WoW the super hero game.

It's not going to be about new things, or revolutionary ideas, it's going to be "WoW in tights".

I'm calling it now.

[Pyroclasm]

It's not going to be about new things, or revolutionary ideas, it's going to be "WoW in tights".

I'm calling it now.

Either way would make me happy.  I wouldn't be happy with another CoX.

[captainspud]

"WoW in tights" isn't an insult. WoW is a much, much better game than CoH. Not CoH's fault-- WoW has a budget bigger than the GDP of a small country.

WoW spends money perfecting things, and then CO can swipe them on the cheap.

[BlueBard]

Well, there is one way I can think of to break the grind (in a sense) but I'm not sure it's practical in any way, shape, or form and  not doable with today's technology at today's prices.

Extreme instancing.

In other words, not simultaneously sharing the game world with five to ten thousand of your neighbors.  If you could choose who you shared that game world with, which instance your hero occupies, when you logged on the experience could be made more flexible.  Spawns and rewards would scale according to how many folks were sharing the slice at any given moment and what levels they're at.

If you feel like soloing, you log into your own slice and interact with nobody but NPC's.  If you want to run with the same people all the time, you log into a slice that you all share.  If you want to PvP, you log into a slice that specifically enables it.  The number of people in the slice can be as big or as small as you like.

Each slice would be a collection of microcopies of the full game world, and you'd be able to set various attributes reflecting your play style when the slice was created.  You'd be able to switch between slices at logon, to any slice you've been 'invited' into.  For folks that want the full-on MMO PvE experience, there would be an Alpha slice that anyone can enter.  But in that case, the spawns would be consistent and the rewards at minimum.  In other words, the game would actually encourage playing in smaller slices where the challenges and rewards are greater.

Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming.  Not likely to happen anytime soon with a commercial-grade online game.  Hopefully CO will be a step in the right direction.

[captainspud]

That's not Massively Multiplayer, that's just Multiplayer. That's how almost every non-MMO's multiplayer works-- one person hosts a game, the others join. You're all in the same world, and you exclude everybody else. Many of them will allow your character data to persist, so that as you join different servers with different people, you still progress normally.

It's a fun model, but it's not how MMOs work.

[BlueBard]

That's not Massively Multiplayer, that's just Multiplayer. That's how almost every non-MMO's multiplayer works-- one person hosts a game, the others join. You're all in the same world, and you exclude everybody else. Many of them will allow your character data to persist, so that as you join different servers with different people, you still progress normally.

It's a fun model, but it's not how MMOs work.

Essentially, yes.  I do break with the Multiplayer model in the sense that they generally don't scale up easily or well in the case of RPG.  And it would be possible to 'solo' in a multiplayer slice such that everyone online can work together or not as they feel like doing.  I'd like to see a slice of nobody but Reborners and their friends, for example.  That would be a fun game world.  Sort of like instanced zones in CoX, except you choose which instance you occupy instead of the server.

Like I said, probably not altogether practical.

Folks are complaining about the traditional MMO model of grinding, so I don't see any reason not to break tradition where possible. :)  I actually don't mind a little bit of grinding, but don't want to see that becoming the whole game.

Maybe the key is flexible encounters where the reward is based more on what you're doing than what you're fighting.  Grind happens because rewards are tied to kills/ko's more than objectives.  In a superhero game, the goal should be stopping the crime/protecting civilians.  Stopping bigger crimes or protecting more civilians leads to bigger rewards.  I don't think you can eliminate every form of grind and keep the game fun for everybody, but changing the terms of engagement might help it from getting too tiresome.

Also I agree with the idea that superhero games should avoid 'loot' in the traditional sense.  supervillain games on the other hand...

[GhostMachine]

"WoW in tights" isn't an insult. WoW is a much, much better game than CoH. Not CoH's fault-- WoW has a budget bigger than the GDP of a small country.

WoW spends money perfecting things, and then CO can swipe them on the cheap.

WoW may be a better game than CoH (and that's debatable), but WoW has worse players than CoH. I've run into a few bad players in CoH, but most of them were either genuine idiots or noobs who hadn't learned how to play properly. Most of the bad players I ran into in WoW were genuine jerks, and the selfishness of players at higher levels is why I quit WoW. That's not a problem with CoH, since you don't really need a supergroup if you don't want one to advance but are pretty much screwed without a good high level guild once you get to 50 or so in WoW.

I miss my NE Hunter's archery skills and White Windserpent pet and my Gnome Warlock's engineering gadgets, but I don't really miss anything else from WoW - including the person who backstabbed me and the guild full of selfish jerks I was in.

[captainspud]

WoW may be a better game than CoH (and that's debatable), but WoW has worse players than CoH. I've run into a few bad players in CoH, but most of them were either genuine idiots or noobs who hadn't learned how to play properly. Most of the bad players I ran into in WoW were genuine jerks, and the selfishness of players at higher levels is why I quit WoW. That's not a problem with CoH, since you don't really need a supergroup if you don't want one to advance but are pretty much screwed without a good high level guild once you get to 50 or so in WoW.

As I've said, I didn't find any of that to be the case. You just lucked out with a crappy guild.

[GhostMachine]

WoW may be a better game than CoH (and that's debatable), but WoW has worse players than CoH. I've run into a few bad players in CoH, but most of them were either genuine idiots or noobs who hadn't learned how to play properly. Most of the bad players I ran into in WoW were genuine jerks, and the selfishness of players at higher levels is why I quit WoW. That's not a problem with CoH, since you don't really need a supergroup if you don't want one to advance but are pretty much screwed without a good high level guild once you get to 50 or so in WoW.

As I've said, I didn't find any of that to be the case. You just lucked out with a crappy guild.

I was in 3 different guilds in WoW; the first I quit due to the leader letting a member sexually harass another member over Teamspeak and went and formed a new guild with that member (the one being harassed, that is) and someone else, only to be stabbed in the back and unceremoniously kicked out of the guild for no good reason by the leader (who also happened to be the person being harassed in the previous guild) a few months later. (The reason they finally did give me was weak AND bs - they were told I had said something that I didn't by two people who had joined the guild only a few weeks before I was kicked out and never bothered to confront me or ask me about it, just dumped me and put me on ignore) The high level guild I joined after that was full of selfish jerks whose members wouldn't go out of their way to help anyone unless they got something out of it. And it was in the process of merging with another guild and becoming a hardcore raiding guild when I quit WoW. (Before that, the guild only held raids 2 to 3 times a week, and one of them would always been Molten Core) I knew from experience that most of the other guilds were like the one I was in and that I wouldn't be able to get into a decent one, so I said "screw it" and quit. And the sad thing is, I had gotten the leaf for the Hunter epic a couple weeks before I dropped out.

For almost three months, I was stuck on a part of the Onyxia Lair key quest chain, with guild leaders whining at me to complete it, yet no one offering to help, and the only PUGs I could find were always doing the part of the quest AFTER the one I needed to do (I needed to do the part before Jail Break). Never had any success organizing one for the part I needed, because most people on Whisperwind avoided Blackrock unless they were doing the Upper Spire.

[Pyroclasm]

I was in two guilds on WoW.  One sucked, the other was great.  I only quit WoW because I wanted to spend the money on something else.
I didn't have many issues with other players either.  I found that I could level fairly well soloing in WoW, but when i played CoH, even being part of a supergroup I couldn't do much without resorting to a PUG.
Different people will have different experiences with the games they play.  They will also view those experiences with a skewed perspective depending on what they like in their games and community.
Let's just hope Cryptic will apply everything they've learned from CoH and other (more successful) MMOs to create the best game CO can be.

[UnkoMan]

The nicest thing about getting in on the ground floor of MMOs is that you can know people from the start. It's even better if you already know people getting in from also the start. Me, I usually come to games late, when the people I know who play it would have to way backtrack and the people I know who don't play it are never going to. I mean, I've had mostly bad pick up groups, but with the good ones... I never even saw those people again. And frankly, I don't like having to meet a ton of new people.

So hopefully this game'll work out better for me. Assuming it's actually a fun game.

[Lightning Bug]

Dang, GM...that sucks.  And I can't even say I understand because my experience in WoW has been great.  Outside of playing CoH with you guys (who I already knew) WoW has been the best game in terms of community that I've ever played.  Whether I got lucky or it's just my server or whatever, it really has been fantastic. 

One thing though...I don't think you can look at the intellectual property a game is based on (or even what it's primary game mechanics are going to be) and make sweeping judgements about the people who are going to play it.  For example, WoW gets a bad rep because it's WoW...however, 10 million people aren't playing it because it sucks.  It's just like Garth Brooks...no one wants to say anything nice about him or admit they own any of his CDs, yet if he records himself burping the ABCs it shoots to number and breaks sales records.  My point is, WoW is a phenomenal game, and because it's so awesome there is a larger spectrum of people occupying the game world at any given time.  Statistically this makes all types of encounters with other players less predictable and more varied.  But a good rule of thumb for me has been to play to have fun, and bugger anything else.  You tend to find exactly the type of people you're looking for in a huge online game like WoW...if you log on expecting to find a PuG full of sociapathic little 12-year-old antichrists, chances are you're going to find them.  As cheesy as it sounds, positive and fun is as positive and fun does.

[captainspud]

Another sunny point for those who are terrified of Jack's hand in the game: it just sunk in when I was reading this that Jack isn't the lead designer on CO, he's the creative lead. Which means he's handling story, art, and other "fluff" considerations. The lead designer is the one who decides all the game mechanics, and that's a completely different guy.

[Dr.Volt]

I was reading somemore from the CO website.  I love the description of Millenium City: http://www.champions-online.com/worlds/millennium_city

It definitely has a Paragon City feel to it.  But then again, Paragon City doesn't have Viper Agents lurking about it's alleys! 

Speaking of Millenium City, this game was interesting enough that I looked into it.  I found this in Millenium City's wikipedia article:

Millennium City is set apart from other cities in the Champions universe due to its extremely advanced technology. The whole city is surrounded by "The Loop", an intelligent highway. Only cars equipped with Vehicle Control Chips (VCCs) can enter the city, by one of eight gateways, and then they are controlled by a central computer and shuttled to their destination. "Normal" cars are required to park at garages at the gateways and their owners commute or rent VCC-equipped vehicles to drive into the city.

So one computer (presumably owned and run by the city government) controls all of the motor vehicles in the city?  Is it just me, or is this idea completely insane?  You can't drive to the grocery without the government knowing exactly where you are.  It sounds like something out of 1984.  And if a hacker (or supervillain, considering the setting) got control of that thing, the possibilities are endless.  They could kill anyone they want by crashing their car, or if they're at home, by driving an 18-wheeler through their house.  They could prevent police from responding to crimes by stopping police cars in their tracks.  And if they're feeling really destructive, they could pick an important building and crash a dozen fuel tankers into it at once.

Maybe Champions is meant to have a more optomistic Silver-Age like feel, but still.

Very, very interesting points regarding the possible Orwellian nature of Millenium City.  Hmmmmm....Mwhahahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!  Don't you think that has TONS of story line potential to it?  I hope the creators of CO pick up and use that aspect of the city.  Can you imagine the trusting do gooders with their Silver Age senses of right and wrong being shocked when the establishment turns on them???  Or, imagine how powerful a simple master hacker could be in such an environment???  It wouldn't matter how uber powerful a hero was...they would have to find the hacker first.  Oh, and we haven't even touched on the possibility of what if the AI that runs the city turns malevolent???  And you have the very real potential of Civil War'ish heroes fighting heroes (with those that back the establishment and those that are revolutionary).  Awesome!!!  This opens all kinds of possiblities!!

[Uncle Yuan]

So one computer (presumably owned and run by the city government) controls all of the motor vehicles in the city?  Is it just me, or is this idea completely insane?  You can't drive to the grocery without the government knowing exactly where you are.  It sounds like something out of 1984.  And if a hacker (or supervillain, considering the setting) got control of that thing, the possibilities are endless.  They could kill anyone they want by crashing their car, or if they're at home, by driving an 18-wheeler through their house.  They could prevent police from responding to crimes by stopping police cars in their tracks.  And if they're feeling really destructive, they could pick an important building and crash a dozen fuel tankers into it at once.

Maybe Champions is meant to have a more optomistic Silver-Age like feel, but still.

Very, very interesting points regarding the possible Orwellian nature of Millenium City.  Hmmmmm....Mwhahahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!  Don't you think that has TONS of story line potential to it?  I hope the creators of CO pick up and use that aspect of the city.  Can you imagine the trusting do gooders with their Silver Age senses of right and wrong being shocked when the establishment turns on them???  Or, imagine how powerful a simple master hacker could be in such an environment???  It wouldn't matter how uber powerful a hero was...they would have to find the hacker first.  Oh, and we haven't even touched on the possibility of what if the AI that runs the city turns malevolent???  And you have the very real potential of Civil War'ish heroes fighting heroes (with those that back the establishment and those that are revolutionary).  Awesome!!!  This opens all kinds of possiblities!!

Yeah, like running cars into superheroes traveling down the street, causing massive crushing damage . . .