Champions Online

[captainspud]

http://www.champions-online.com/

Yaaaaaaaaaaay! A Superhero MMO that isn't CoH! :)

[Kommando]

 :blink:  Want...

[RTTingle]

http://www.champions-online.com/

Yaaaaaaaaaaay! A Superhero MMO that isn't CoH! :)

Hmmm...

lets see how this goes.  Found a little info about this elsewhere.

Read this from the Hero Games forums:

Points of interest from the Game Informer article:

# The game has classes, but every class has access to every power. Class defines how many points each power costs for your character.

Oooo.  I like!

# Graphics are a 3D/cell shading hybrid that Cryptic calls "comic shading".

Interesting.

# The underground arena circuit allows PvP.

First rule of Fight club...

# Only heroes at launch. Dark Champions as an expansion later.

I'm not surprised.

# Fully customizable characters,powers and movement types (floating, running on all fours etc).

Take what made COH great and do it better?  I dunno'.  I'll believethis when I see it.... but boy is it interesting.

# Secret identities.

Cool!

# Customizable arch-nemesis. If you ever decide to kill off or incarcerate your arch-nemesis, you will be able to create a new one.

Cooler!

# The game will take place world wide, not in just one city.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!

# Planned zones: underground cities, dinosaur-infested island, secret desert military base.

Very niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!

# The game has been created with Cryptic's proprietary game engine called "Game Tech".

# The game will also include voice dialogue and cutscenes.

# Scheduled for a 2009 release.

2009?  Thats pretty fast.  No doubt this is what was supposed to be MUO.  Hmmm.  Anxious to see this.  Curious to see what COH will do to keep up... if Cryptic keeps up to its word.

RTT

[DMenacer]

Already signed into the forums but we need some one to start a thread for Freedom Reborn in the SuperTeams section before our name might get taken.

[Previsionary]

From what TW and a few other random people tell me, and from what I saw, it looks like this is just a more versatile version of COH. In fact, going by what I've read elsewhere, from the facts stated, this game is *allegedly* close to what CoH was during beta mode. Is there any truth to that? Paging Zapow.

[Pyroclasm]

2009?  Thats pretty fast.  No doubt this is what was supposed to be MUO.  Hmmm.  Anxious to see this.  Curious to see what COH will do to keep up... if Cryptic keeps up to its word.

According to the Game Informer article, it was MUO.  They owned the game engine and just lost the license.  Since they own the Champions RPG, they just turned around and made the switch to their own IP.  The pictures shown in the article look great.  IMHO, it looks much better than City of Heroes.  The proportions just look better.  It mentioned something about eliminating the "cool down" of actions and making every power, stance and appearance option fully customizable.  It's supposed to be quicker, being able to play it without having your screen cluttered with an extensive HUD.   Xbox 360 and PC players will also be able to play each other from the get go.  Ah, and there will be loot. (yay!)
I was waiting for MUO, but I think it's demise was just what we needed.  I will probably get in on this one.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

This definitely caught my attention.  One thing that I wish could be hard wired into the game (or at least entertained as an option for some but not a requirement of all) would be an element of RP that would, of necessity, limit the number of one-dimensional capes running about and increase the number of round characters.  What always annoyed me with CoH is the sheer number of personalities (or lack thereof) flying by in search of disposable quarries who might as well be playing multiplayer Quake or DOOM or Halo or Fill In Your Favourite Shooter Here.  I would be truly thrilled to play a MMORPG where, for instance, a team of RP-savvy Cryptic staffers would take turns (on a regular basis--not just for special events or the premiere of new issues) filling the shoes of key NPCs, providing live dialogue, furthering or hindering players' story arcs (depending on how the player realises his or her campaign), etc.  I would eagerly sign on to an online superhero RPG where neighbourhood/city/world development (and not just base development)--which means not only having a hand in urban planning (the analog to base layout) but also personal investment, civic responsibility, regular patrolling, public and political relationships, collaboration between well-developed teams, etc.--were an option for high-level players.  In short, if I could enjoy the benefits of a blend of coded automation (combat mechanics, leveling, commerce, random mob encounters, emotes that more interactively affect the environment (Could I shake someone's hand, please?)) and human innovation (live NPCs, dynamic--not canned--conflict) when it comes to performing the actions of a GM AND be part of a community of true role players simultaneously, I would never be dissuaded from mucking in for the long term. 

My best teaming experiences on CoX--and I very, very rarely team--were with folks such as BlueBard, Uncle Yuan, and TPE, all of whom were able to bring their love of RP to a game world that is in many ways inimical to a rewarding RP experience: practically all level grinding, IMHO.  I could say more, but it's not necessary for me to do so.  We all know the games' limitations.

Of course, I know I am asking too much--as someone who cut his teeth on MUSHes, MUCKs, MOOs, and more RP-oriented MUDs--of any company willing to cater to only the first three letters of MMORPG.  Moreover, to a certain extent, I firmly believe that true RP militates against most forms of mass marketing, so I should never expect to meet the creature I envision in a highly successful, wide-scale, subscription-based MMOG.  I know others have sung this song before (when criticising CoX), but, for once, we are witnessing a superhero MMOG ostensibly linking itself to a good ol' pencil-and-paper RPG: I just wish I could trust it to live up to the game genre's name (not to mention the Champions legacy).

I like the higher level of customisation that this game promises, but something tells me that, beyond those advancements, 'twill be but a shinier version of CoX.

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[detourne_me]

i just started a thread in the superteams section for freedom reborn...   i'm thinking a few COX guys might migrate over there.

[captainspud]

My #1 wish for this is for them to scrap the "fight legions and legions of faceless drones" gameplay of CoH. I'm a superhero, I don't want to fight goons with guns. I want to fight villains-- one on one. I want a knock-down fight that takes five to ten minutes to resolve.

Having some gang-based factions is fine, but it really tears the thematics away when all you're fighting are goons, and you need backup to take on even the smallest name-brand villains.

[Lionheart]

My #1 wish for this is for them to scrap the "fight legions and legions of faceless drones" gameplay of CoH. I'm a superhero, I don't want to fight goons with guns. I want to fight villains-- one on one. I want a knock-down fight that takes five to ten minutes to resolve.

Having some gang-based factions is fine, but it really tears the thematics away when all you're fighting are goons, and you need backup to take on even the smallest name-brand villains.

You just identified my biggest pet peeve with CoH. I want to fight costumed villains! And not just in task forces. It's really annoying when you get to the big, bad gang leader, he looks just like all the other gang members, just with more power.

Also, the fact that when you enter a mission (having played for a while), that it only takes a few minutes before you know the layout of the entire base -- because you've been in a bazillion bases with exactly the same layout already.

That's where I like the open world layout of LOTRO better; every zone, every location is unique.

The strength to the CoH method is that you can instance the missions and make them scalable to group size. Scalable missions are great. Now if someone could just figure out how to incorporate scalable missions to a more open world environment.

Being able to create your own archvillain is an awesome concept for storyline players. With my own pen-and-paper games, I love creating backstories that include arch-enemies.  :)

[BentonGrey]

Hmm......I never was terribly interested in COH...in fact, I'm just not much of an MMO kind of guy, but this has me vaguely curious.

[TigerStyle]

Just read the Game Informer article and it has me interested.  Since I count more as a casual gamer and my PC is getting up in age, being able to play this on the 360 is great.  I think the main question I'll have will be regarding subscription fees. 

Edit:  As an oh by the way.  I'm not sure how well they can live up to the promise of the game being world-wide rather than just a city.  They have to fit the entire game into a DVD to be able to play on the 360.  Unless, they don't do a lot with environment textures.  Even then, I'm worried that all the similar type areas will just feel the same as each other. 

[UnkoMan]

I like fighting goons. Love it in fact. I just don't like it when it's in the form of an mmorpg. Click on a guy, press attack buttons over and over until one of you dies. Repeat. See, if it was more like a beat em up or, say, Ultimate Alliance (glorified beat em up anyhow) then I would LOVE it. With costumed villains as bosses.

Still... I'm excited for the customization. The way a character looks and moves has always been important to me. That's why I still stick to Freedom Force. I hardly play it anymore, but I can make a character exactly how I want it. Thus, this is interesting me already.

And, man... it'd be sweet to get in on the ground floor for one of these things. When I finally got to CoH everybody I knew were basically level capped. Guild Wars? Way ahead of me. Working my way up with people I know instead of teaming with random idiots (another reason I dislike MMOs)? Awesome.

[RTTingle]

Interesting article over on Gamasutra... Jack Emmert talks about the lessons learned from COH.

Does an MMO need 400 hours of gameplay? "Frankly, we were naive and enthusiastic, and we said, 'sure.' So we calculated everything on the assumption... that you'd have to make 400 hours worth of missions," began Cryptic Studios Jack Emmert, as he explained how City of Heroes was developed to order for NCsoft.

Nor were any microtransactions planned. But the aim was to deliver original content once every three months -- it ended up not being quite so often. On its release, the game had its strengths and weaknesses like any other. As far as the former, there were character customization options and moment-to-moment gameplay. As to the latter, there was missing PvP and an absence of new loot, on which typical MMO players thrive.

By 2004, the game's subscriber base had grown to 180,000 in North America. "But on our first update, we did nothing to address the game's weaknesses," said Emmert. Focused on bug fixes and content past level 50, the team overlooked those content absences that resulted in a loss of players. "If you don't have [PvP] at launch, you can never add it," warned Emmert.

"We tried to address the weaknesses that we had, but we really did it in a way that simply re-used content that we already had," he continued. "It didn't change the fact that there were repetitive instances; it didn't change the fact that there was nothing to do besides leveling... Anybody who was turned off by those weaknesses, we were doing nothing to help them."

And six months later, WoW hit the scene. "It's conceivable that the players would have stuck around if not for the fact that WoW came out. When WoW came out, we lost about a third of our subscriber base," Emmert explained.

In 2005, City of Heroes saw its European launch, soon followed by City of Villains. But, Emmert said, "What I really delivered was a City of Heroes experience with a slightly evil twist." He neglected to connect to what players might want from being a villain. "If they didn't like City of Heroes, there was nothing here for them... I can't even tell you the disappointment I have. It hurts."

Now the team was trying to add new content to City of Heroes -- like a PvP arena -- while keeping City of Villains in mind. "It was extremely difficult; we were just giving features to people who didn't want them," Emmert said, noting that all the PvP players were off playing WoW.

"Jeremy Gaffney of NCsoft was adamant that we should add some sort of endgame," continued Emmert. But given that few people had reached a high enough level, they decided to add new content at precisely the point that the vast majority of players were. "But what I didn't think about is that players are always looking forward to tomorrow," he said, elaborating that the content lost value three months down the road.

Challenges for the team in maintaining game balance continued, Emmert recalled, pointing out the popular nickname "City of Nerfs." "I had a theory about balance... that everyone should have, or at least should feel like they have an equal role when they're in a team, that no player feels less than another. And secondly, everyone should progress through the game equally."

In 2006, a couple of big decisions were made. NCsoft decided there would be no more retail; the live team shrank by 75 percent. "We had to drastically change what our expectations are," Emmert said. "Our expectations on the amount of content we could deliver had to change." A new lead designer, Matt "Positron" Miller was appointed, and the newly-small dev team had to trend away from content-heavy features. But, says Emmert, this turned out to be a surprise boon -- instead of adding new zones, they were forced to add depth and detail to some zones that already existed that might otherwise have been bland and empty.

The team renewed its "focus on the fan" that year, too: "No more nerfs... it was driving me nuts. I just couldn't take it anymore." Despite the forum raging and conflict, however, Emmert stressed: "No nerf ever, ever caused a statistical drop in subscription base, ever. I tracked every single one, and never, in that particular day, week or month, did more people drop the game than in any other particular month. Fascinating."

Deadlands creator Shane Hensley had a theory that one should always personally get to know one's fans, and Emmert says he took a page from that philosophy. "I really want the fans to get to know me. But the downside is, because it's the internet, people twist my words so badly... I seem like the son of Satan. But what are you going to do? I think that my customers are my customers, and they deserve some level of communication."

By 2007, the team introduced an invention system to City of Heroes and City of Villains. The nerfs were gone and the old, generic zones had been refurbished. "There is one nerf that I did that we lost a couple thousand people on," he admits. "It was called enhancement diversification... and that really did make people mad."

The net effect of the updates was high retention versus a "typical" MMORPG from month one to month two -- a rate of about 90 percent, Emmert said, high above his colleagues' two thirds loss on other games. The retention month after month continued to be static, moreover. "The people who remain, you can't get rid of them... it's absolutely impossible to do it because they're so used to the pain and agony of the gameplay that they love it."

City of Heroes/Villains never brought in a large-scale migration of new players, however. Even City of Villains only added some 60 thousand people to the player base, not a good deal in the grand scheme of things. But with the update packs, Emmert said, there was a constant period of re-acquisition as new players came back to investigate the new content. "We have such a large customer base, we sent out an email whenever an update came out, and several thousand people would re-up... so you end up staying pretty static."

So what are the lessons learned? "Don't design to the max," states Emmert. "Account for new systems. If you don't have the money or the team size to be able to ship a game with, say, an elaborate guild system, make sure you plan out what you plan to have guilds do in the future. Make sure you have an understanding of how it will happen." Second, consider the player nature. "It's a strange MMO market right now, but I think because WoW is so vast and so popular, that if you launch a game and you don't have a particular feature, like endgame, people will just say, 'ah, I'll go back to playing WoW."

"Think about how easy it is to update your systems. We created a leveling system, as well as powers, that it was extremely hard to add new things on," he said. The superpower structure in particular made it difficult to expand the level cap. "WoW solved that by saying, 'you can take the same power and rank it up.' But we basically created... a self-containing system that [made it] very difficult to get up to level 50. And expect that there will be players who go nuts."

Finally, consider player nature. "People will make it as un-fun as they possibly can if they think there's something to gain by that," Emmert added, concluding, "Worry about the players you've got. Don't worry about the players you don't have. You are what you are at launch," advised Emmert.

I have to say, I found this part pretty funny...

The team renewed its "focus on the fan" that year, too: "No more nerfs... it was driving me nuts. I just couldn't take it anymore." Despite the forum raging and conflict, however, Emmert stressed: "No nerf ever, ever caused a statistical drop in subscription base, ever. I tracked every single one, and never, in that particular day, week or month, did more people drop the game than in any other particular month. Fascinating."

Because just two paragraphs later we get...

By 2007, the team introduced an invention system to City of Heroes and City of Villains. The nerfs were gone and the old, generic zones had been refurbished. "There is one nerf that I did that we lost a couple thousand people on," he admits. "It was called enhancement diversification... and that really did make people mad."

RTT

[captainspud]

Thing is, "a couple thousand people" isn't a huge number for them. It's a tiny portion of the playerbase. So statistically it's not significant, but you can look at it in a vacuum and draw some possible inferences.

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

Just read the Game Informer article and it has me interested.  Since I count more as a casual gamer and my PC is getting up in age, being able to play this on the 360 is great.  I think the main question I'll have will be regarding subscription fees. 

Edit:  As an oh by the way.  I'm not sure how well they can live up to the promise of the game being world-wide rather than just a city.  They have to fit the entire game into a DVD to be able to play on the 360.  Unless, they don't do a lot with environment textures.  Even then, I'm worried that all the similar type areas will just feel the same as each other. 

They could just put it out on two DvDs, that is how it worked for the Game of the Year Edition of Oblivion I bought for the 360. Install the extra stuff from one disc then play with the other.

Even WoW's initial install was only 3 or 4 CDs which is slightly shy from a full size DVD. That install put in the entirety of the old world Azeroth and all of the assorted textures and such in the game. They could just hold back some of the content until a bit after release if size is really an issue. After all now including the Burning Crusade expansion WoW clocks in at a total of 10.3 gigs on my pc.

[Verfall]

To repeat my usual stance, anything run by Statesdouche without common sense supplied by someone like Zeb Cook is not worth wasting my money on. I quit COH until I got into COV beta and saw what a game developer with brains and the sense to go outside of things like "vision" could do. COV got me back in, and guys like Castle have kept me around.

Than there's the fact they're tacking on another universe into a game that was already designed with Marvel in mind. Are we going to see hack jobs like the 5th Column take over that the current devs are still trying to clean up? And how long till this game gets "diversified"?

I'll sit back and wait, in the hopes NCsoft hands Posi and Co. a few million for COH2 and lets them show States how to properly develop game without crapping on the fanbase.

[RTTingle]

Thing is, "a couple thousand people" isn't a huge number for them. It's a tiny portion of the playerbase. So statistically it's not significant, but you can look at it in a vacuum and draw some possible inferences.

You know what they say.  There are lies, damn lies and statistics.  Sure statistically, it may have been nothing... but he proceeded to say he tracked the game to the day, week and month and there was no drop.    It just makes me wonder where he got the numbers for "lost a couple thousand people" when later mentioning ED and what column for the statistics tracking he put them under. 

I found the article interesting in a lot of different ways and I think its an interesting attempt, in my opinion at least, from States to draw confidence into their new product by showing he recognized the issues with this product and will use that experience to make this product better.

My question is why didn't they apply it to this game?  For example...

In 2005, City of Heroes saw its European launch, soon followed by City of Villains. But, Emmert said, "What I really delivered was a City of Heroes experience with a slightly evil twist." He neglected to connect to what players might want from being a villain. "If they didn't like City of Heroes, there was nothing here for them... I can't even tell you the disappointment I have. It hurts."

People have been complaining that COV wasn't evil enough from the get go.  He finally acknowledges that.  An example someone else used was it was hard to get into it when the only difference between the COH and COV missions was the term "rescue" was swapped out for "kidnapped".  The missions were well designed, with nice maps and all --- but lets face it... it was rare when a mission truly made you feel evil.  I actually felt like I was playing COH in darker shades and tones.  After all, we were fighting villians more than we were anything else.  The Mayhem Missions were a step in the right direction, but its a tad bit too little, too late.

As an aside... I loved COV.  It finally gave me pistols after all  :P  I really think the ATs were interesting, I thought the world and missions were beautifully detailed - if a bit too dark and that the missions were just incredible.  It made me wish COH could be like that.  So why didn't I play?  I'm a casual player - still was looking to finish the first game, which took me just under 3 years.  I had no desire to play virtually the same game with a new coat of paint.  COV didn't offer enough of a difference for me.

Most interesting part of the article?

In 2006, a couple of big decisions were made. NCsoft decided there would be no more retail; the live team shrank by 75 percent. "We had to drastically change what our expectations are," Emmert said. "Our expectations on the amount of content we could deliver had to change." A new lead designer, Matt "Positron" Miller was appointed, and the newly-small dev team had to trend away from content-heavy features. But, says Emmert, this turned out to be a surprise boon -- instead of adding new zones, they were forced to add depth and detail to some zones that already existed that might otherwise have been bland and empty.

I'm still trying to figure out how accurate this is.  Have to go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back and read through some old messages.  Who exactly decided what?  Did Cryptic of NCsoft decide there would be no more retail?  Did Cryptic pull people off COH for the MUO because of that decision and is that why the team shrank?  Lot of what ifs and could bes.  Certainly could put NCSoft into a different light for me depending what else comes out.

Irregardless, I think what they did with COH in the past year with the smaller team really was great.  They took what they had and made it better.  The redone zones, inventions & weapon customization, all very nice.  Just too little, too late in my opinion.

Lets run wild with speculation for a moment though.

So, lets say a lot of plans were made for a new box expansion of COH2.  How much of it do you think we're seeing now or will see in the near future?  The few new powers?  Weapon customization possibly?  The long talked about space zone?

Now, how much of that planned new expansion was funneled off COH to their new Hero project, formerly known as MUO - now Champions Online?  Looking over the features hyped, it certainly is interesting.  It's something I certainly do wish was COH2.

So, without a doubt --- to me, Champions is basically going to be COH V.2.  Sure the system will be overhauled.  But remember... wasn't it Jack who came in and basically changed the free for all powers thing and defined everything into classes (I have to look more into that, but I'm pretty sure thats what happened?) that delayed the game another year or so?  So this is really what COH should have been from the start... but better.

I'm looking forward to it. 

If nothing else... I'm hoping the competition lights a fire under NCSoft to truly do some great things with COH.

Win-win if you ask me.

[captainspud]

Grrrr! Arrggh!

One thing to keep in mind... CoH was States' first game. He didn't really know what he was doing back then. Now, he's had 5+ years of experience; I'm sure he's a little better at it now than he was when CoH launched.

[BlueBard]

How much you wanna bet ol' Jack's new online persona will be Defender?  :P

Seriously, though... customizable powers, including color?  No more powerset lock-in?  I am so there... depending on price and a few other factors.

I remember having a copy of the Champions rules myself.  One of the earlier editions, too, though I couldn't tell you which edition now.  It was one of the more complex RPG's around at the time.

[Verfall]

Grrrr! Arrggh!

One thing to keep in mind... CoH was States' first game. He didn't really know what he was doing back then. Now, he's had 5+ years of experience; I'm sure he's a little better at it now than he was when CoH launched.

So he learned to basically take the ideas of of the COV team, the players and whatever COH is throwing out now, and actually make them work rather than go off about the vision and his gameboy? I'm willing to be money he still doesn't know what he's doing. The guy is not lead dev material. And where'd Geko go? If anything he was more at fault for the original COH mess since he basically refused to admit he was wrong. The borked regen tests using numbers not matching the live servers was proof positive of his abilities.

Plus, it is being developed for consoles. Do you really want to be playing with those kind of people in a team based environment?

[BlueBard]

Plus, it is being developed for consoles. Do you really want to be playing with those kind of people in a team based environment?

You have a certain point there...

But if the system works the way it ought to work, there should be no real need to team unless you want to.  Hence, you pick who you want to run with rather than being forced to find a PUG because that's the only way to level effectively.

The tricky part is whether these guys can deliver on a system that works the way it ought to work.  That's a fair question.

What interests me is how close they are going to get to HERO system type customization.

[Pyroclasm]

Plus, it is being developed for consoles. Do you really want to be playing with those kind of people in a team based environment?

:blink:
Those Kind of People? Are you saying PC players are better than console players?
I played Halo 1 & 2 online and did not see any additional instances of 1337ness/immaturity than what I did playing on multiplayer games on PC.  My Halo teams usually knew how to work together to solve the threats facing us.  On a PC, not so much.  PuGs are one of the worst experiences I ever had on any of the MMOs I've tried.  Even simple multiplayer PvP games like Half-Life were filled to the brim with jerks.  Maybe I was lucky with Halo, but I don't think being able to play with new folks is a bad thing.  Besides, they indicated they would not be forcing groups with CO.  If that allows me to fully enjoy my game without having to beg for a team, then all the better.

[Verfall]

Plus, it is being developed for consoles. Do you really want to be playing with those kind of people in a team based environment?

:blink:
Those Kind of People? Are you saying PC players are better than console players?
I played Halo 1 & 2 online and did not see any additional instances of 1337ness/immaturity than what I did playing on multiplayer games on PC.  My Halo teams usually knew how to work together to solve the threats facing us.  On a PC, not so much.  PuGs are one of the worst experiences I ever had on any of the MMOs I've tried.  Even simple multiplayer PvP games like Half-Life were filled to the brim with jerks.  Maybe I was lucky with Halo, but I don't think being able to play with new folks is a bad thing.  Besides, they indicated they would not be forcing groups with CO.  If that allows me to fully enjoy my game without having to beg for a team, then all the better.

You played Halo online and didn't run into any "consoletards"? Console-only gamers are notorious for being idiots, which can usually be attributed to mommy and daddy not letting lil' Jimmy play on the computer, but giving them free reign to torture the English language over a headset.

As well, how dumb downed is the gameplay going to be so it functions smoothly on a console? COH is already pretty mind numbingly simple, any easier and you may as well just play MUA. From what I'm seeing, this is going to be MUA with flashier graphics, customization, a different universe and a 15 dollar a month price tag.

But I'll be frank, I was wrong about ED, I was wrong about IO's and I may very well be wrong about this game. But Jack has shown, while being pretty good at the story details, he sucks jimmies at actually putting said ideas to use in a MMO environment after the initial game is out there. The fact so few people ditched after the GDN and ED nerfs was basically because they were the only fish in the pond. Cryptic can't pull the same thing twice and keep their subscribers, not with COH and the inevitable sequel on the horizon, as well as the DC game if it gets released.

[BlueBard]

Simpler controls isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I'm always having to remember which key I used to bind a certain power, etc.

Still, I'd want to either play a beta or get testimonials before I'd want to pay for it.

[yell0w_lantern]

I just can't get past the MMO pay-to-play after I've already payed money just to get the game. At least make the gosh darn software free if you charge to play.

[UnkoMan]

You know, Ver, that's the reason I always play MMOs solo. Jerky, arrogant players with no sense of grammar and unable to having even simple discourse. In fact, I think I've met about two or three people in total who I could actually play those sorts of games with, excluding people I already knew.

[Kommando]

You know, Ver, that's the reason I always play MMOs solo. Jerky, arrogant players with no sense of grammar and unable to having even simple discourse. In fact, I think I've met about two or three people in total who I could actually play those sorts of games with, excluding people I already knew.

Most of my active builds are soloable.  When I do team up its with people from the FR and NRF channel.  And should I team with a PUG, I try to keep an eye open for the exit when the team Leroy Jenkins(es) rears his head.

[Pyroclasm]

Verfall, I wasn't saying that I hadn't run into bad Halo players, only that I did not find they were any more jerky than PC players.  That said, I think that you can just as easily run into great console gamers as you can with PC gamers as the membership of this particular site can attest to.  As for the teaming, maybe it IS the simpler controls, but my teammates just seemed to know what to do in a team setting.  The only time I ever felt comfortable playing in a group on PC has been when I knew everyone, whether in RL or because of being guildmates.

[GrizzlyBearTalon]

All I have to say is that it has been my experience that there are just as many jerks and idiots playing PC games as consoles anymore, heck anymore it might even be the same idiot a lot of the times.

Anyways, it looks nice and pretty so far. Honestly I think a console centric control scheme is actually for the best. The traditional MMO gameplay just doesn't fit the superhero genre perfectly, there is a certain level of distance inherent in the system that most people just look past after a while. A more full in control no delay control scheme sounds much more heroic honestly. This might end up playing more like an action game ala Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden but with power usage ala Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

I am curious to see if there will be any destruction of environments or being able to pick anything or anyone up.