Superman: Man of Steel

[Xorn]

The sequel is a go... and from the sounds of what's coming it will be awesome...

Read here: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=50153

[stumpy]

What's awesome about it? Not that it couldn't be, but I didn't see anything especially cool in the article. Superman Returns was pretty unimpressive, IMO. Frankly, it left me thinking that they would be better off modifying or 'forgetting' parts of it to go forward with the franchise.

[Shazam]

Thats an understatement stumpy. Superman Returns, was one of those, that after watching you think "why did they even bother?"

I liked nothing about that movie at all and I especially disliked the story line. In my opinion, they should just forget that movie altogether and start afresh.

[BWPS]

:( I thought it was awesome. The movie was good, Spacey made it AMAZING.

[Shazam]

Well BWPS, you are fully entitled to your opinion and I'm glad you enjoyed it ^_^
I just think it fell waaayyy short of the mark.

[BentonGrey]

Ughh....Spacey playing Gene Hackman, playing Lex Luthor.....he did a BETTER job than Hackman, but he was still playing it way too goofy.  Anyway, I still can't quite figure out who those geniuses manged to make a Superman movie boring, but they sure pulled that off...in spades.  I really wish they'd fire Singer and start all over again.  I don't care much about the super-love triangle, and Superman having an illegitimate child has NEVER sat right with me.  At least here's hoping that the second one won't be such a yawn fest, maybe giving us Brianiac like the first one SHOULD have.

[the_ultimate_evil]

Ughh....Spacey playing Gene Hackman, playing Lex Luthor.....he did a BETTER job than Hackman, but he was still playing it way too goofy.  Anyway, I still can't quite figure out who those geniuses manged to make a Superman movie boring, but they sure pulled that off...in spades.  I really wish they'd fire Singer and start all over again.  I don't care much about the super-love triangle, and Superman having an illegitimate child has NEVER sat right with me.  At least here's hoping that the second one won't be such a yawn fest, maybe giving us Brianiac like the first one SHOULD have.

i agree one the luthor aspect, when i heard spacey i thought perfect then bah, the love triangle i don't mind but ditch the bloody kid, and lose the whole super stalker aspect

[detourne_me]

Have you guys tried any of the fanedit movies?
I just watched a great one called Superman redeemed, which edits 3 and 4 together to make a cohesive interesting story, rather than two stupid ones.
theres also fanedits of Superman 1, 2 and Returns,  as well as spider-man 2 and 3, and episodes 1,2,and 3 for star wars...

[GogglesPizanno]

theres also fanedits of Superman 1, 2 and Returns,  as well as spider-man 2 and 3, and episodes 1,2,and 3 for star wars...

Part if me would be curious about a fan edit of it, but there was so little there to work with.. Its not like you can just cut out a jar jar line, or trim a "yippee!" Superman returns was basically "Superman Gets Depressed", which involved some kind of Lifting Therapy. The more morose he gets, the bigger the object he lifts...

[BentonGrey]

Haha, yeah Goggles, and apparently the more the laws of physics bend.  Struggling to lift a jet?  Then he should have no problem lifting a small CONTINENT FULL OF KRYPTONITE!  I like the more limited Superman who DOES have to struggle to lift a plane, but I wouldn't have objected to a stronger version, if they had kept it consistent throughout the movie...

[stumpy]

I agree with most all of these criticisms, especially

ditch the bloody kid, and lose the whole super stalker aspect

Also, dump the "Clark Kent has no skills as a reporter" baloney.


Lots of people consider the Superman movies to end after Superman II because III and IV were so bad. I have a feeling many still think of Superman II as the last in the series. I may have to track down some of those fan edits...

[Previsionary]

NEGATIVITY!

I don't know how I feel about a new Superman movie. I didn't watch the last one because it didn't feel like a superman movie to me (my niece/sister have the dvd) and it bored the heck out of me and I usually left the room or went to sleep. That said, I'm tired of Lex being the big bad in EVERY superman related movie (even the old B/W ones). Superman has a huge rogue gallery and I think it's time to make use of them. If Lex regularly outsmarts him and causes him trouble every single movie, then that's a problem. not only does it say that a common human who happens to be smart and deceitful can regularly get the upper hand on a man that should be superior in every way, but it keeps superman stagnant and nothing more than a really naive, big blue hero. A small upgrade wouldn't do any harm to him at all.

[The Hitman]

Boy, it'd sure be nice if Superman actually fought a superpowered bad guy, and not just another Kryptonian. Give me Parasite, Bizarro, Toyman... heck, I'll take Jimmy Olsen turning into the Giant Turtle Boy or something!

[TheMarvell]

I also didn't like Superman Returns. I can't say it was a bad movie though. It was very well made and all that, but it wasn't good, nor was it particularly bad. It was 2 hours of complete mediocrity. Nothing in particular about that movie stood out to me.

but I still think the talent is there. The sequel has much more potential, and for once, we might actually get to see Superman fight a villain.

I gotta say this though, I've never seen the original Superman films, nor have I ever really been a fan or all that interested in him. Yeah, he's like the poster boy of comic book superheroes and things wouldn't be the same without him, but I just can't ever really get into a character that's almost entirely unrelatable. Unique, yes, but I find little interest in a demigod with essentially one weakness that he, for some reason, never anticipates (in Returns anyways, which is pretty much my first real experience with Supes).

I'm confident in the potential of the sequel. The first one was a big bucket of meh, but Singer seems to realize what he did wrong, even if he doesn't outright say he made a mistake...

[GogglesPizanno]

Lots of people consider the Superman movies to end after Superman II because III and IV were so bad. I have a feeling many still think of Superman II as the last in the series. I may have to track down some of those fan edits...

I have a soft spot for III... Dont know why.
And IV is bad. But I respect it for at least trying to do a super powered super hero movie. Even if it fails miserably.

I've often thought that since Superman I and II were both filmed at the same time by mostly the same director from a big giant script, it would be cool to see the two films put back together ala Godfather, just trim out some of the slapstick stuff from II that was added. Though don't let Donner at it. If anyone saw the Richard Donner cut of II it was ridiculous. The ending.... I mean Come On!

[Mr. Hamrick]

with regards to Superman Returns, I have a love/hate relationship with the movie.

From a technical aspect, I loved it.  It was well shot, the effects were great, I liked the casting (with the exception of Kate Bosworth as Lois).  Even Singer's directing wasn't bad.  It wasn't his best but I don't think he will top The Usual Supects anytime soon.  We got exactly what Singer said we were going to get . . . a continuation of Superman II. 

THERE WAS THE PROBLEM!!!   The first two Superman movies, all of them actually, were the pre-Crisis Superman.  To take it a step-further, it was the silver-age portrayal of Clark Kent as a dork who is completely inept as a journalist and in just about everything else.  Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, people??   And to make matters worse, you can tell movies that were shot in the 70s usually just by looking at them.  Singer went for the same effect at some points in the movie.  This would be fine had he stayed with that throughout the movie.  Instead it was a mix of the 70s style (and in some cases film quality of the 70s and 80s) mixed with the 21st century effects and in some cases digital work.  It was super-noticeable.

Then came the problems with script.  I think most of that has been covered here.  What hasn't I will not touch on because it will start a whole other rant on my end.  But the bottom line is that the script and often the characterization of Clark and Superman and Lois stunk.   

[Protomorph]

I agree with everything that Mr H said just then.


That said, the new movie needs to have Braniac fighting polar bears outside of the Fortress of Solitude.





Anyhow...the Donner version of II was completely a waste of time. The only part of it that even made sense was to cut out the cheesefest with the celephane shield and vanishing acts and getting right to the showdown. Everything else was total crud.

So, Superman... [spoiler]does the exact same thing that he did in Superman 1, to reverse time to undo all the damage done by Gen Zod and Co. But did nothing to prevent them from escaping in the first place. Wouldn't this just make it happen again? And, if he did erase everything, this includes the unpowered beatdown by the redneck. After he erases everything, he goes down to the diner and kicks the crap out of an innocent person, unprovoked!! What?!?! Superman is not supposed to be that petty. So, why couldn't he have simply erased the previous 5 years when he wasn't there in Superman Returns?[/spoiler]

...really they should reboot. I said this before Singer made his movie. I wasn't wrong.

[stumpy]

That said, the new movie needs to have Braniac fighting polar bears outside of the Fortress of Solitude.

:lol: And maybe he fights a giant spider in the third act...


I'm glad for that review of the Donner cut of Superman II. When I heard about it, someone on IMDb was saying it was great, so I was thinking about adding it to my wish list.

[Ajax]

The writers from Transformers are doing the sequel? Why am I the first one to find this ominous? I mean in the theaters when the special effects for TF were larger than life it was easier to forgive the giant plot holes, but it doesn't really stand the test of time. Eventually you are going to ask "How can they be weak to extreme cold when they can travel unaided through space?" Obviously Megan Fox and the supporting characters (aka the transformers since they had a ridiculously low amount of screen time) were merely eye candy to distract us from such questions. Will the next Superman be the same? Will we be like "OOh the army of Darkseid in all it's CGI glory."  "Kara...pretty..."

[Mr. Hamrick]

Now wait a second, Transformers may not "stand the test of time" but it was not anywhere near a bad movie.  Especially given the thought that Michael Bay had some say in the direction that the writers went with the script. 

[Xorn]

Ok... I know Returns was not expected in its low keyness... but when I said it will be awesome I mean that this quote from Singer gives me hope that it will...

....And now that the characters are established, there's really an opportunity to up the threat levels. ... Clearly there'll be a body count [laughs]. From frame one, it will be unrelenting terror! All those teenage girls who found the movie and mooned over James Marsden or Brandon [Routh]? Well, I'm going to wake them up!

That quote bodes well for at least the action part of the next movie...

[danhagen]

No, the Donner version of Superman II was well worth it. The much better scene in which Lois discovers Superman's identity alone is worth it.

[BentonGrey]

What really got me about Superman Returns is that it is supposed to be a quasi sequel to I and II, right?  Then why is it just a freakin' remake of I?!  Lex Luthor plans to sink a large portion of the US to create new "land" that he will own and profit from.  Luthor's plans are foiled by his floozy, and Superman is trapped with kryptonite. 

As far as the writers behind Transformers doing Superman........that is sort of scary.  I mean, Transformers was great fun an all, but it was hardly a movie of the quality that Superman SHOULD be.

[danhagen]

I agree about "Superman Returns." I am second to no one in my love of the first Reeve movie, but virtually every damn line of "Superman Returns" was an homage to it. Give me a break. Also, of all things on Earth or Krypton, a Superman movie should not be SOMBER.

[Talavar]

I don't hate Superman Returns, I think it has it's moments, but it was ill-conceived from the get-go.  It should have made a clean break from the old films, just like Batman Begins did.  In the 4 old Superman movies I think you can put together half of a good movie, 3/4s tops.  The situation with Returns was especially confused because, while it sort of pretended to follow the continuity of the first two Superman movies, it didn't really follow it very well.  Add Superman's modern portrayal power-wise rather than the Silver Age version on display on the old series, and it never meshed nicely.

I take some heart from the idea that this Superman sequel will make a firmer break with the original series.

[the_ultimate_evil]

just throwing it out, the worst thing returns did was connecting itself to reeves's films. that had them running with a limp right from the get go

[Panther_Gunn]

I'm glad for that review of the Donner cut of Superman II. When I heard about it, someone on IMDb was saying it was great, so I was thinking about adding it to my wish list.

Stump, you may want to keep it on your list, if you can find it for less than full price.

Most of the problems with II were caused by the Salkinds.  They only good they did in this world (as far as the Superman family is concerned) is bankroll the whole thing & get stuff onto screens.  They were more interested in a quick in & out sort of filming & production to get the most return for the investments.  They *hated* Donner (it evolved during filming), partly because of his desire for a serious film, and that he wouldn't kowtow and bow down to them & their demands for a quicker filming time, slashed budget, and their script ideas for a cheesy camp-fest.  He was filming scenes for I & II at the same time, but when pressure from above (Salkinds), as well as them starting to only trickle in $$, he decided to concentrate on getting the first one finished.  It wasn't supposed to end the way it did (I don't recall what the climax was supposed to be)....that was supposed to be the end for the second movie (the reason it was in the Donner cut).  At that point, he figured he probably wasn't going to get to do the second movie, and used it as the first ending.

When the first movie did so well, the Salkinds were hot to do a quick sequal, and recoup some money by using stuff that was already shot.  Their problem, was that Donner shot so much, they had to cut as much as they could, and add in a certain amount of screen time worth of new material, so they could get his name off of the Director's credit.  That's where all of the non-sensical garbage came in.  All in all, the Donner cut of II was a *much* better film than what was actually screened for the general public.  I'm not saying it doesn't have it's problems, but it's much less offensive to the sensibilities.

Back to the original topic, I thought that Returns was terrible.  The only bits I liked at all, was the heat vision scene along the street with the falling glass shards, and the chain gun scene (not including the "bullet to the eye" bit).  I still don't think Routh was the right choice, and the redesign of the costume makes me ill.  The Reeves films showed that the costume concept does work on screen....there's no need to make it out of special material, leather, hip huggers, or dark colors.  It was completely unnecessary.  Lex should have *never* been played for laughs.  Even the way Clark was portrayed in the era the first films were done was as a very competent reporter, on par with Lois.....he knew what he was doing, and did a good job.  Perhaps Singer *should* have just done it as a reboot.

A sequal?  All I can do is wait & hope for redemption.

[HumanTon]

Transformers had writers?

[MJB]

ha     ha   

-MJB

[Jakew]

I think its pretty obvious now that audiences demand a superhero films to have superhero slugfests. If you look at movies like Superman and Ang Lee's The Hulk, people are way too overly critical of them, depsite the fact that they're made with a lot of love and throw decades old heroes into new situations.

I'm expecting Superman: Man Of Steel to be like the upcoming Incredible Hulk ... low on story, high on super fights.