Next Avengers trailer

[captainspud]

[OTS OT]Be careful what you wish for, Spud...

"Teen," with regard to the actual usage in question (and avoiding several diverting forays into etymology)

Actually, I WAS looking for etymology. :p

"Teenage" comes from the fact that the person is "aged in the teens". "The teens" are a series of ten (or nine, depending on if you count ten itself) numbers that mean "[number] and ten", basically speaking roman numeral construction out loud. Twelve and eleven got funny names for some reason, but they're still part of the number series.

[Mystik]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/teenager

teen·ag·er
n.   A person between the ages of 13 and 19; an adolescent.

[MJB]

This looks like something my son will love. Can't wait to watch it with him.

-MJB

[Talavar]

My problem with this is the same problem I have with the Iron Man cartoon in the works, and that I had with Batman Beyond while it was being developed: the main characters are being re-cast as children due to misguided beliefs about marketability.  Now, Batman Beyond ended up being awesome, so there's hope for these two projects as well.

[bredon7777]

Sorry, but that gave off a whole "Muppet Babies" vibe to me- all we needed was to have tony appear as just the Iron Man boots (instead of green striped socks).

Now, Muppet Babies is fine for what it was, but it wasnt for me.

And this may be fine for what it will be, but its not for me either.

[Previsionary]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/teenager

teen·ag·er
n.   A person between the ages of 13 and 19; an adolescent.

That's true, but the term means different things according to cultures and how things are with kids these days. Puberty starts much younger and I think the adolescent definition expands to 10 as of now.

This looks like something my son will love. Can't wait to watch it with him.

-MJB

My problem with this is the same problem I have with the Iron Man cartoon in the works, and that I had with Batman Beyond while it was being developed: the main characters are being re-cast as children due to misguided beliefs about marketability.  Now, Batman Beyond ended up being awesome, so there's hope for these two projects as well.

My thinking is that they're trying to bank off of two things. The name's marketability + history/nostalgia aspect and the kids (the actual demographic [prolly 10-14]) ability to connect and relate with the source. Batman Beyond was definitely for the teen crowd and it had much darker elements in the show, movie, and later JLU than I suspect this cartoon will hit upon.

Anyway, what semi-annoys me with all the negativity is every time marvel or DC come out with something that isn't within our depiction of the characters (and usually not in our demographic range anyway) we pounce on it full force. It happened with the new Batman cartoon (though I don't like it), it happened with X-men evo originally (though that toon turned out to be good), it happened with the new fan 4 toon (and it was good for the most part),  and it certainly happened with Legion of superheroes...all shows aiming to connect kids with something we all know and already have connections to. Its success doesn't really depend on us liking it, it depends on the kids going out to buy it, getting connected to it, and wanting more. If us older "kids" happen to enjoy it, that's just a bonus for them and the actual kids (or friends) we'll be watching it with.

So, ignoring my total neutrality, my current mindframe is to wait for more info/trailers/previews before I begin making a definite impression. The only other thing that keeps me from knocking it down is that Craig Kyle is involved and he has some type of skill as he was involved with some good projects (X-men Evo/Ultimate Avengers movies/Fan4/New Spidey toon [which seems to be a hit with the kids and comic readers]) and some blah stuff (Invincible Ironman/Doctor Strange)...so this could fall anywhere.

[gengoro]

I have always been confused with the whole make the main char a kid to appeal to children angle in a lot of shows.  Maybe its just me but I never cared for or tried to relate to any child characters in toons when I was younger.  Hell, I hated them for the most part.  I always wanted to be the adult main of the show.  Maybe its cause I was a child of the 80s-mid 90s.

[Talavar]

My problem is just the assumption made by the marketing types behind these decisions that kids need child-heroes to relate to and enjoy a product.  The whole history of fiction enjoyed by children shows that not to be the case, but still they insist on pandering to their target demographic.  I'm not saying they shouldn't have children as their target demographic, or attempt to appeal to them, or make changes, but so many of these shows and the changes seen in them, seem to be driven by corporate group-think marketing sessions that think they know what kids like, rather than any attempt to make a quality product, regardless of whether its being marketed to children.  

There wasn't much of corporate group-think in Legion of Super-heroes (it just wasn't a good show) or the new Spider-man show (which I'm enjoying quite a bit), but there was a little in X-men Evolution, a fair bit in THE Batman, and there appears to be a lot in this Avengers cartoon and the new Iron man cartoon.

I know Batman Beyond turned out quite dark and adult (arguably darker than Batman TAS), but during production, before an episode had ever aired, it sounded bad.  A teenager replacing Bruce Wayne, with lots of enhanced gadgetry?  Outrage, that was the order of the day, at least until it debuted.  And Kids WB was kind of ticked with Timm & Co. over it as well.  They got pitched a teeny-Batman show, and ended up with something even darker and more adult than Batman TAS, which is why the character of Max was crammed into the show more and more as it progressed.  The pitches Timm & Co. made for a Justice League-type show to Kids WB are horrible-sounding as they tried to appeal to these group-think marketing types, and they still weren't pandering enough.  We're all lucky that Cartoon Network stepped in as an alternative.

[herodad1]

i'll pass judgement only after ive seen it.as far as beating ultron maybe they get help.they never mention the hulk and the special features from the last avengers dvd show sneak peeks and the hulk with the maestro look was among them.dunno; i like to keep an open mind and not be to negative.a guess thats what makes us so great..diversity.

[JeyNyce]

I don't think I going to like it but I'll hold judgment until I see it.  So far it seems like a Marvel version of Teen Titans, if they were teenagers.

[herodad1]

i DO wish marvel could come up with an avengers cartoon with the line-up they previewed on the up coming dvd along the lines as the jlu series.

[Glitch Girl]

My impression:

Trailer tells me little to nothing.  I agree that apparently Marvel is trying to capture the successs of Teen Titans and Legion of Superheroes (was it a success?) with their own teen group.  But anything on the actual show the trailer's promoting... I got zilch, not even character designs really, just backstory.    I don't know what to think of the show they're promoting so I'm gonna have to wait until some more info is released.

[zuludelta]

A couple of quick thoughts:

#1: The minute I saw that this was a project aimed towards kids, I could already imagine the uproar from some of the older fans about this not being "their Avengers" and how they'll avoid the DVD and blah blah blah. A quick look at the bigger comic book forums out there shows that a number of fanboys are in prime whine mode and are clearly frothing at the mouth with this latest assault on their senses.

Although I certainly don't agree with the production meeting group-think that dictates that an animated feature targeted towards children should always feature kids as the main protagonists, I think the older fanboy should just stop the knee-jerk crying and lamenting over the updates and changes made to a version of the Avengers that is clearly designed for a different age-group.

Look, I think Gerber Baby Foods^©-brand Green Beans and Rice tastes nothing like the real thing (in fact, it tastes more like pre-chewed and slightly salted cardboard to me), but I'm not complaining because it's obviously not made for someone with my aged palate. I'm not saying that criticism from older viewers and fans of the comics isn't especially relevant (because it really is, but for entirely different reasons), but I think any criticism should be tempered with the knowledge that this animated film, from the looks of it (and using the "design a main character 2 to 3 years older than the target audience" rule), is targeted towards the pre-teen bracket, most likely 6 to 10 year olds.     

#2: All that being said, I will admit that the trailer and the initial designs leave me a bit cold. I guess part of that comes from Marvel's poor track record of late when it comes to their animated projects. Their latest direct-to-DVD projects were laughably bad (Ultimate Avengers 1 & 2, Iron Man, Dr. Strange), although the new Spider-Man cartoon looks like a potential kids-and-adults crossover hit with their quality writing and solid (if unremarkable) animation.

But beyond my qualms about how the execution may or may not slip up, I just don't know if the concept of "Avengers' kids taking up their parents' legacies" has enough legs. For one thing, it presupposes that the pre-teen audience already cares about (or is at least knowledgeable about) the parent Avengers. I'm not too sure if kids today are familiar enough with the Avengers that they'd care about a DVD featuring the Avengers' kids. It was a different case altogether with a show like, say, the Emmy Award-winning X-Men: Evolution (which featured teen versions of the X-Men), since the property had a relatively high Q Score and was familiar with kids and audiences across multiple demographic groups: it came on the heels of the first X-Men film (which was a massive worldwide hit). The good thing is that this is only a direct-to-DVD feature and not a Saturday morning cartoon, so it will probably be easier to market the DVD to the likely buyers (older Avengers fans who want to introduce the characters to their kids, fanboys looking for something to complain about on their blogs, lapsed comic book fans on a nostalgia trip).

Anyways, I hope it turns out nice, but in all honesty, I'm half-expecting another groan-worthy experience since it's apparently going to be made by the same production company that gave us the last 4 Marvel direct-to-DVD features.

[Glitch Girl]

Took more hunting than it should have but found some character designs.



And a promo shot can be found here
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0708/06/avengersreborn.jpg

Seems to be very much going for the Teen Titans look.  Oddly enough, Hawkeye's kid does not appear in the promo picture among other changes betwist the two.  Not sure which is newer, though I think the one I'm hosting is.

[Previsionary]

GG, I believe the latest pics were on marvel.com and iirc, it's the pic you're hosting. I havent looked in awhile.

Zulu, I agree with you except about ultimate avengers. You're clearly confused or under some type of spell. :P.

But seriously, disregarding my own opinions on those movies, it has gotten pretty good reviews and it sits pretty evenly on the 70%/80% line by most "professional" reviewers and the fans rate it higher. The last two marvel releases are 50%/60% (sometimes 70%) range, but they all fared better than those things in the "Stan Lee presents..." line.

[zuludelta]

Zulu, I agree with you except about ultimate avengers. You're clearly confused or under some type of spell. :P.

Heh. Oh well, different strokes and all that.

My biggest problem with the last four direct-to-DVD Marvel animated releases was the quality of the animation (and the overall art direction), more than anything else.

To my eye, it looked like it wasn't any better than your standard Saturday-morning cartoon and a step or three below the better weekly episodic stuff like Nickelodeon's Avatar: The Last Airbender or KidsWB's The Batman. The animation looked stiff and clunky, and the fairly "generic" art style made the characters look somewhat unremarkable (not entirely the fault of the artists... just because a design works in the comics doesn't mean it'll translate well into animation... which is why the best art directors like Bruce Timm and Glen Murakami occasionally resort to a fair degree of stylization when transitioning properties from print to animated film). Coming from a large production company like Lions Gate Films (and with a relatively larger budget than most weekly cartoons), I expected a lot better from the art side of things.

[Previsionary]

Yes yes, the art wasn't really high quality like most of the dc movies were, but it didn't detract from the movie to me. I guess because I have lower standards for marvel a lot of the time when I take into account the animated toons they put out in the 90s and how subpar they looked even at the time they were made. Also, I take it that you look at art more heavily than I would because you actually do art. I would probably look more heavily at the story/writing/dialogue since I partake in writing. *shrugs*

[herodad1]

to me also most views are swayed by if your a marvel or dc fan.i'm a marvel .

[Midnite]

Took more hunting than it should have but found some character designs.



And a promo shot can be found here
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0708/06/avengersreborn.jpg

Seems to be very much going for the Teen Titans look.  Oddly enough, Hawkeye's kid does not appear in the promo picture among other changes betwist the two.  Not sure which is newer, though I think the one I'm hosting is.

You know if you remove the shield, and add a green colour scheme. He looks like Guy.  :D

[Talavar]

Here's a stumper that the picture raises: how does an indestructible shield get cracks in it?

[Previsionary]

Here's a stumper that the picture raises: how does an indestructible shield get cracks in it?

I guess the same way the shield periodically is broken or cracked in the comics? Different universe so the same rules may not apply.

[thanoson]

Eh, I'm a Marvel fan mostly. Loved JLU. That said, DBZ and most animes that aren't the newly rushed design. This, I don't like.

[crimsonquill]

*blows dust off thread*

Okay, folks.. like it or not.. a new trailer for Next Avengers was released...

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid271543564/bctid1599064902

It kinda moved my "ehhh.. okay" opinion to "interesting" since I got to see Ultron in action finally...

- CrimsonQuill

[JeyNyce]

Saw the trailer a few days ago on Marvel.com.  I agree, it looks interesting. 

I like the end with Kid panther:  Uh-Oh? Uh-oh!, What do you mean Uh-Oh?!

[zuludelta]

I agree that it looks much more interesting than the initial trailer had me believing it would be, but I don't want to get my hopes up. Personally, I've found all the direct-to-DVD Marvel/Lions Gate features (Ultimate Avengers 1 & 2, Iron Man, Dr. Strange) to be pretty disappointing. The quality of the animation, in particular, is more in-line with what we see in Saturday morning cartoons instead of animated feature films, even mid-budgeted ones.

[lugaru]

Eh, I'm a Marvel fan mostly. Loved JLU. That said, DBZ and most animes that aren't the newly rushed design. This, I don't like.

I agree. I'm a marvel zombie for the most part but I consider DC to have better animated shows and features. I'll check this out sooner or latter...                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

[docdelorean88]

Hmm, Interesting, very interseting! I think it could have a decent plot.

[Dr.Volt]

*Bump*

Saw the new trailer over at marvel.com...I'll probably rent it.  Which puts me solidly in the the "interesting/wait and see" camp.  I'm intrigued with the concept.  But it does look like it might be a little too tween-age market in orientation.  I for one don't the mind the animation style so long as the writing is good.  So, yeah, interesting and we'll see. 

[Protomorph]

My problem is mostly because it is a) unrealistic even within the comics and b) extremely formulaic. I'll explain. The problems are entirely based in the writing.

Ultron (or whoever) finally beats the Avengers...the world's greatest heroes. Not even rookie Avengers, but battle-tested, seasoned professionals, mind you. Now, these brand-new characters...the children of the Avengers, still youngsters and very green, are being trained by Tony Stark to be Avengers. You just know that somehow they will beat Ultron (probably due to some plot contrivance from their unpredictability or something).

That is where the problem comes in. Any Ultron who _kills_ Cap, Thor, et al is NOT being defeated by a group of children.  How it ought to logically end is the kids being killed too, but you know that will not happen.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Young Avengers film, as I like the characters, but it would ultimately be severely nerfed, due to the gay characters. But, they wouldn't be able to beat that Ultron either.

If they made a movie about new heroes, even the kids of Avengers, growing up in their parent's shadows after their retirement, fighting new foes etc. it could be good.

[Protomorph]

[OTS OT]Be careful what you wish for, Spud...

"Teen," with regard to the actual usage in question (and avoiding several diverting forays into etymology)

Actually, I WAS looking for etymology. :p

"Teenage" comes from the fact that the person is "aged in the teens". "The teens" are a series of ten (or nine, depending on if you count ten itself) numbers that mean "[number] and ten", basically speaking roman numeral construction out loud. Twelve and eleven got funny names for some reason, but they're still part of the number series.

11 and 12 have, as you say 'funny names' because the original numbering system wasn't base-10, but base-12. From WAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY back when, I mean. 12 inches in a foot. 12 months in a year. 12 hours per AM and PM. 12 signs of the zodiac. there are examples all over the place. And this theme with the 1-12 names (in terms of thirTEEN fourTEEN etc) goes on with every language.