Progressive Rock/Metal Thread

[ow_tiobe_sb]

I've found my listening habits of late have moved away from pop-oriented rock/metal to more progressive rock/metal again: in particular, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Rush, tool, and (the youngest of the bunch) Dream Theater.  I know that it takes a special type of soul to appreciate(/tolerate) progressive rock/metal, so I was wondering if anyone else out there is a fan of the genre (if it can be forced into that box).

Here are my thoughts on favourite progressive rock/metal albums and songs:
[spoiler]
Pink Floyd:
The Piper at the Gates of Dawn - The debut studio album contains mind-blowing extended jams "Astronomy Domine" and "Interstellar Overdrive."  If you know the album, 'nuff said.

A Saucerful of Secrets - With a slightly altered line-up (Barrett was on his way out during the recording/release of this record, IIRC), ASOS contains the stellar (with emphasis on "star") tracks "Let There Be More Light," "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun," and "A Saucerful of Secrets"  :wub: :wub: I used to listen to the latter track over and over again at university and dubbed it my "gospel tune" (if you are familiar with the end of said track, you will know what I mean) to the irritation of my Christian roommate.  ;)

Atom Heart Mother - The title track is excellent, IMHO, and demonstrates the post-Barrett group's willingness to experiment with different influences.

Meddle - This album represents the starting point for many Floyd fans, given that it contains (justified) fan favourites "One of These Days," "Fearless," and (perhaps less popular) "Echoes."  My love goes to the latter, which is longer than the two former tracks combined.  :D

Relics - The compilation album released the same year as Meddle (1971), this record contains the superb extended jam "Careful with That Axe, Eugene."

Obscured by Clouds - Another one of the band's soundtrack albums (for the French film La Vallée), this record contains at least two tracks that strike my fancy: "Wot's ... Uh the Deal" and "Absolutely Curtains."  The latter track features a chant by the obscure (ho-ho) Magupa tribe.  :thumbup:

The Dark Side of the Moon - Perhaps the band's best known album (alongside The Wall), this record contains my favourites "Time," "Money," and "Us and Them."  'Nuff said.

Wish You Were Here - In so many ways, this is my favourite mellow mood Pink Floyd record.  I won't bother listing the tracks since every one of them is tops in my book.  :wub: :wub: :wub:

Animals - This is my favourite non-mellow mood Pink Floyd album. The extended jams "Dogs," "Pigs (Three Different Ones)," and "Sheep" represent, to me, the pinnacle of this band's progressive era.  :wub: :wub: :wub: The rest of their discography, including post-Waters records A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell, seems rather Water-ed down (ho-ho) to more pop-rock standards.

Jethro Tull:
Stand Up - Even if this record does not qualify as progressive rock, I need to mention it for its superlative numbers "A New Day Yesterday" (blues with a kick ;)), "Bourée" (how often does a kick-arse band cover/arrange one of my celebrated ancestor's pieces?  :wub:), and "For A Thousand Mothers."

Aqualung - Again, I don't advocate this album for its progressive qualities, but the tracks "My God" and "Locomotive Breath" deserve mention here for their virtuosity.

Thick as A Brick - Clearly progressive territory, J-T strut their stuff on this nearly 46-minute song.  One must love it or leave it: I love it.  :wub: :wub: :wub:

A Passion Play - I actually like the live bootleg of this album that I own better than the studio recording.  Most often I've found that folks love it or hate it.  I, on the other hand, adore parts of it and wish that other, more melodramatic parts had been omitted.  *shrug*

War Child - Originally meant to be the soundtrack to a film, this album contains some surprisingly good tracks, such as "Queen and Country," "Back-Door Angels," "Skating Away on the Thin Ice of the New Day," "The Third Hoorah," and "Two Fingers."

Minstrel in the Gallery -  J-T recorded some solid numbers on this album, including the title track, "Cold Wind to Valhalla," "Black Satin Dancer," "One White Duck / 0¹⁰ = Nothing At All," and "Baker St. Muse" (which represents most of the album, BTW).

Songs from the Wood - So good that we can pretend that the prior record, Too Old to Rock 'n' Roll, didn't happen, this album contains the excellent title track, "Cup of Wonder," "Hunting Girl," "Velvet Green," and "Pibroch (Cap in Hand)."

Heavy Horses - Sue me, but I love the title track to this album.  :P

Storm Watch - Less of a favourite of mine, notable numbers include "Dark Ages," "Warm Sporran" (because, you know, I've worn one on various occasions.  :P), "Old Ghosts," and "Flying Dutchman." This album marks the end of what I would consider J-T's classic progressive era.

Broadsword and The Beast - I'll mention this album for a single track, "Broadsword," whose philosophy intrigues me. :)

King Crimson:
In the Court of the Crimson King - The only album by this artist that I truly admire, the tracks "21st Century Schizoid Man," "Epitaph," and "The Court of the Crimson King" strike my fancy.

Rush:
Rush - I mention this pre-Peart album only for the tracks "Here Again" and "Working Man."  The lack of Peart on the rest of the album seems apparent to me.

Fly by Night - The first Neil Peart album boasts "Beneath, Between & Behind" (for alliteration's sake ;)) and the epic "By-Tor & The Snow Dog."

Caress of Steel - Not my favourite album, but I will give praise to "The Necromancer" and "The Fountain of Lamneth" for their efforts.

2112 - One of my favourite Rush albums, this record includes the excellent tracks "2112," "A Passage to Bangkok," and "The Twilight Zone."  If you enjoy having your ethics challenged, listen to the title track over and over, as I have.  ^_^

A Farewell to Kings - I'll mention this album for "Cinderella Man" and "Cygnus X-1."  "Xandau" can rot in hell.

Hemispheres - Again, short mention (largely because I am becoming tired) for "Cygnus X-1: Book II - Hemispheres" and "The Trees."

More when I have the time to post---[/spoiler]

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[B A D]

Songs from the Wood, Heavy Horses,  and Stormwatch are particular favorites of mine, and I pull them out and play them when the weather is appropriate. You guess when.


Rush - Caress of Steel (The fountian of lamenth for sure) and Moving Pictures captured a period of music at its finest.

Yes - Yessongs was an absolute classic.

Some of the later bands, like Marillion  had a few mentionables , but those you listed are pretty much the giants  of the genre.

[Tortuga]

Yes: "Fragile" and "Closer to the Edge".  Those two albums are pretty much a greatest hits of Yes.

Rush: "Moving Pictures" and "Grace Under Pressure" for early 80s stuff.

Genesis: "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" is brillliant.

[detourne_me]

A pretty big RUSH fan here too,  and of course I love Pink Floyd as well,  must've watched The Wall a dozen times with my folks growing up.

If you want to listen to some current progressive rock, I'd highly recommend Coheed and Cambria.  They put on a great live show and their music can best be described as a pop-punk teenage-romanced progressive space rock opera.  Every album they've produced is part of a large overarching space opera, and they've even put out quite a few comics detailing the story.

EDIT:  I just remembered a few new bands that might be nearly parodying the genre that ZD pointed out... !!! (pronounced chik chik chik) and The F%^^$ing Champs - yes those are their names.

[zuludelta]

I was raised on a steady diet of Yes, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, and Emerson, Lake & Palmer as a kid, but I haven't really re-visited the definitive records of the genre in a while (my dad had me listening to Pictures at an Exhibition when I visited him for drinks recently, though). I'd say Floyd's Wish You Were Here is my favourite prog album of that early era, particularly because it feels more improvisational and less deliberate than the contemporary prog releases of the time.

As for the modern crop of prog rock/prog metal, the only ones I've really paid any attention to are Queensrÿche (although they haven't really been too prog since Operation: Mindcrime), Dream Theater (mostly just for Petrucci's guitar playing), and Tool (although I only really listened to their first two albums). It's been my experience that most modern prog albums I've heard are a tad too ponderous (almost to the point of parodying the genre) for my current tastes.

[GogglesPizanno]

I'm just enjoying that people are talking about Rush and no one is getting mocked for it....

These music discussions in my experience usually go something like this:

• Pink Floyd - "Yeah they're cool"
• Jethro Tull - "Classic"
• Yes - "I like that Roundabout song, and his vocals dont bother me as much as Geddy Lee's"
• King Crimson - "I heard of them, but I've never listened to them"
• Rush - "(Snicker)...(Rolls Eyes)...Comment about Geddy Lees Voice... and some kind of D&D basement joke"

[Gremlin]

See, rock is something I should know more about than I actually do.  What exactly defines "progressive" rock?

[Panther_Gunn]

See, rock is something I should know more about than I actually do.  What exactly defines "progressive" rock?

Progressive rock (often shortened to "prog rock" or "prog", also called "art rock") is a form of rock music that evolved in the late-1960s and early 1970s as part of a "mostly British attempt to elevate rock music to new levels of artistic credibility."

Progressive rock bands pushed "rock's technical and compositional boundaries" by going beyond the standard rock or popular verse-chorus based song structures. Additionally, the arrangements often incorporate elements drawn from classical, jazz, and avant-garde music. Instrumental songs are more common, and songs with lyrics are sometimes conceptual, abstract, or based in fantasy. Progressive rock bands sometimes used "concept albums that made unified statements, usually telling an epic story or tackling a grand overarching theme".

Progressive rock developed from late-1960s psychedelic rock, as part of a wide-ranging tendency in rock music of this era to draw inspiration from ever more diverse influences. The term was applied to the music of bands such as King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, The Moody Blues, and Emerson, Lake and Palmer, and came into most widespread use around the mid-1970s. While progressive rock reached the peak of its popularity in the 1970s and early 1980s, neo-progressive bands have continued playing for faithful audiences in the subsequent decades.

link

That being said, I'd like to dispute an inclusion or two of ots's, specifically with Pink Floyd.  By my point of view, anything from the Barrett era still falls into Psychedelic Rock.  Meddle, Wish You Were Here, and Animals are all excellent albums, and unfortunately overshadowed by Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall for the limelight they deserve.  How often do you find a single track that takes up the entire second side of an album (Echoes)?

An addition for King Crimson:  I felt that Discipline, Beat, and Three of a Perfect Pair were all excellent albums, and their mention should be included here.  Thrak was also a good album, but with a much different feel, I think.

The Yes Album and Fragile contain more Yes staples than any other two albums combined.  Both are chock full of progressive Yes goodness.  And it's nice to find another fan of Close to the Edge.  It seems to be a much less well known album, probably because of the lack of radio-friendly tracks, but it's much stronger than so many others.  Every time I play it, it's always over too soon.  ^_^

*hugs B A D for mentioning Marillion*  I've been a huge fan of Fish & the boys ever since Fugazi, and have picked up everything I can since then.  The devastation I felt when I heard the news he was leaving the band was almost as much as when I heard the news that Freddie Mercury had passed only a few short years later.  While continuing to pick up Fish's solo stuff (and enjoying it immensely), I tried to follow the rest of Marillion, but by Brave (three albums later), they had lost me.  Fish, on the other hand, still produces good work, carrying the prog flag as high as he can hold it.  I found it humorous that his first concert back in San Francisco since the Clutching at Straws tour (10 years later with Sunsets on Empire....an excellent album), Marillion was playing a concert the very next night that weekend in SF.

A hair-splitting question on Genesis:  is their stuff still considered Progressive once Gabriel left?  Just curious.

[Verfall]

I see Dream Theater with Opeth in Calgary in a few weeks now. I also miss out on Coheed because we paid for Rush tickets.

But to bring something to the table from the metal side, I can't say enough about Opeth. I mean sure, all but one of their cd's has the death growls mixed in with the clean vocals, but look past that and their just an amazing band. I'm essentially a Prog Rock newbie, but Opeth was the band that opened the doors for my indulgence into the genre.

[detourne_me]

my knowledge is rusty, but wasn't Marillion the first band to self-publish an album through the internet, and internet pre-sales?

also i had no idea they were connected to fugazi in any way...   i love fugazi,  but i never really found out much about their background - their albums were super rare to find, i could only burn copies of the albums in the radio station i worked at.

[B A D]

I'm just enjoying that people are talking about Rush and no one is getting mocked for it....

These music discussions in my experience usually go something like this:

• Pink Floyd - "Yeah they're cool"
• Jethro Tull - "Classic"
• Yes - "I like that Roundabout song, and his vocals dont bother me as much as Geddy Lee's"
• King Crimson - "I heard of them, but I've never listened to them"
• Rush - "(Snicker)...(Rolls Eyes)...Comment about Geddy Lees Voice... and some kind of D&D basement joke"

Um, thats because most of us PLAYED D&D in the basement at one point. This is the music we grew up with, and not Fiddy Cent or  whatever the hell else . Rush inspired a lot of later groups with their tunage, and groups like Metallica , Pantera, and others have credited them on numerous occasions. 
Plus, There are a lot of Canadian Army Commandoes on this board who's sole purpose is to track down IP numbers of posters who mock Rush and punish them. So,  good luck with the breathing there.

[GogglesPizanno]

There are a lot of Canadian Army Commandoes on this board who's sole purpose is to track down IP numbers of posters who mock Rush and punish them. So,  good luck with the breathing there.

Don't misunderstand me... Im a HUGE Rush fan (even the synth-pop 80's stuff).
But all I get from my friends is grief and mockery for it.

[B A D]

I hated Hold Your Fire.  Power Window's wasn't bad, and I haven't  listened to anything since Counter parts, which I thought was good.

[Camma]

Well who doesn't love the classics as we can now call these formly "progressive" rock bands.  And BAD really hit the nail on the head by mentioning that you can't truly appreciate what more modern and more hardcore rock/metal bands are doing now adays without knowing their roots.

I never really got into Dreamtheater myself, but my teacher (who is a musical monster of his own realm) really loves them.  His words are that you will be hard pressed to find a longer running, more technically sound, theory based band in the hard rock/metal world.  Having heard little bits, i have to say that D.T. has had a long career of overlooked gems, although i think the overlooked portion is mostly by the band's choice.

[zuludelta]

A hair-splitting question on Genesis:  is their stuff still considered Progressive once Gabriel left?  Just curious.

I think that's the common assessment, but personally, I draw the prog/non-prog distinction at the departure of guitarist Steve Hackett after the Seconds Out live album, around early 1978 or so. The stuff Genesis cranked out after that probably doesn't qualify as prog rock for most fans of the genre (or at least prog rock as it sounded back then). 

[ow_tiobe_sb]

That being said, I'd like to dispute an inclusion or two of ots's, specifically with Pink Floyd.  By my point of view, anything from the Barrett era still falls into Psychedelic Rock.  Meddle, Wish You Were Here, and Animals are all excellent albums, and unfortunately overshadowed by Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall for the limelight they deserve.  How often do you find a single track that takes up the entire second side of an album (Echoes)?

Absolutely valid point taken, P_G.  The note I should have affixed to the mentions of early Floyd albums was that I can trace certain elements of the progressive rock genre--such as recurring and nested motifs/riffs, key modulations and time changes, non-traditional instrumentation--to these albums, which, as you point out, more appropriately fall within the psychedelic rock genre. 

I have much that I would like to share about Dream Theater, as this excellent band has sparked a measure of enthusiastic discussion here, but I will need to do so in a later post.  Verfall, I am thoroughly jealous that you got tickets to see this act. :)

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

P.S. What's the problem with Geddy Lee's voice?  I wish I had that much control over my upper register, being but a largely untutored baritone myself.  :huh:

[B A D]

Geddy himself once quipped that his singing voice frightened small animals.

[GogglesPizanno]

Geddy himself once quipped that his singing voice frightened small animals.

I was at a BBQ playing Rock band yesterday and my friends voice had the exact same effect on the dogs....

[RTTingle]

Ah...

... great love affair 'tween one and I a long time ago.  She gave me Early Genesis and I gave her Alan Parsons.  Way cool moments when we went to see Yes and Alan Parsons was opening for them.  I have a short toleration of Yes at times though and hearing extended versions of long rock songs to begin with wasn't much fun.  :P  Even cooler was when we saw Alan Parsons a year later by himself and had a picture taken with him and he signed my Time Machine CD.  :)  Best moment yet though was when I found Spot The Pigeon for her and had it sent to her for her birthday gift.

Good music all around with Progressive Rock.

RTT

[Jakew]

Anyone heard "The bee made honey in the lion's skull" by Earth? Cool new album.

[Tortuga]

A hair-splitting question on Genesis:  is their stuff still considered Progressive once Gabriel left?  Just curious.

I think that's the common assessment, but personally, I draw the prog/non-prog distinction at the departure of guitarist Steve Hackett after the Seconds Out live album, around early 1978 or so. The stuff Genesis cranked out after that probably doesn't qualify as prog rock for most fans of the genre (or at least prog rock as it sounded back then). 

Agreed.  Post-Gabriel, they still had "A Trick of the Tail" and "Wind and Wuthering"...two decent prog-albums.

"...And then there were three" was a big change - a little more sappy, less complicated.  It was followed by "Duke" and "Abacab" which both had heavy doses of Collins' sappiness, but are fairly listenable today, and still have remnants of their 'prog-rock' days (although they're much more synth-driven).

However, 1983's self-titled "Genesis" (with hits such as Illegal Alien and Mama) was the most dramatic change.  It's both goofy and dark, but it's the beginning of the band's downward spiral (even though 1986's Invisible Touch was perhaps their most commercially successful albums).

[The Phantom Eyebrow]

I think a fair sub-section of my music collection would qualify.  I do like a lot of the stuff mentioned here, particularly the great Pink Floyd - but an honourable mention must also be given to Jethro Tull.  I must confess that I don't listen to any of this type of stuff nowadays as much as I used to, but I still enjoy digging out the old records once in a while.

I am (not terribly) surprised to see that Uriah Heep ("the poor man's Deep Purple") haven't featured yet.  They were fond of producing the odd long-winded orchestral arrangement, including "Salisbury" and "The Magician's Birthday".  These songs might only be a relatively tight 10mins+ each, but they are fine examples of the genre.  "The Magician's Birthday" in particular is one of those songs that just pops into my head every once in a while and can't but raise a smile for me. 

[ow_tiobe_sb]

I am (not terribly) surprised to see that Uriah Heep ("the poor man's Deep Purple") haven't featured yet. 

Eyebrow, I knew 'twas but a matter of time before you mentioned Uriah Heep in this thread (and I am glad you did :)).  I am not really certain how much U.S./Canadian exposure the most famous band that Charles Dickens never formed has received since circa 1970, so I cannot speak to the band's reputation amongst the members of this online community.  With that said, I can report that I have admired the two tracks you have mentioned and like to think I have a soft spot for the band in general.  ^_^

I'm not sure whether or not I should thank detourne_me for mentioning Coheed and Cambria in this thread. :P  I visited the iTunes Store to sample some of their musical wares only to find that they seem much more pop-progressive than I had anticipated (even though I was warned).  The problem is that, despite Claudio Sanchez's clearly very narcissistic (and needlessly messianic) lyrical tendencies, I am liking the band's sound (in particular, the tightness of the rhythms and Sanchez's vocal virtuosity) and beginning to feel the pull away from, say, Dream Theater's Scenes from a Memory (which achieves a nice balance, IMHO, between series of dark, non-pop runs and extended solo rotations AND more upbeat, pop-inflected motifs) or tool's intensely anti-pop (IMHO) 10,000 Days toward C&C's Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV, Vols. 1 and 2--even though, I must say, I am finding certain non-pop tracks (including the title track) on In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth:3 much more to my liking.  Whether or not my initial listening trend, which was moving away from pop-rock/metal, will be derailed by C&C remains to be seen...(not that that is necessarily a problem ;))

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[zuludelta]

I am (not terribly) surprised to see that Uriah Heep ("the poor man's Deep Purple") haven't featured yet. 

Eyebrow, I knew 'twas but a matter of time before you mentioned Uriah Heep in this thread (and I am glad you did :)).  I am not really certain how much U.S./Canadian exposure the most famous band that Charles Dickens never formed has received since circa 1970, so I cannot speak to the band's reputation amongst the members of this online community.  With that said, I can report that I have admired the two tracks you have mentioned and like to think I have a soft spot for the band in general.  ^_^

I think Uriah Heep (and Ken Hensley for that matter) is relatively popular as far as prog-ish bands go... I think they definitely have had more international exposure than, say, King Crimson (then again, I grew up in a mountain resort town that was stuck in some sort of late 1960/early 1970s time-warp all through-out the 1990s, so I can't really say if my experiences are representative of most other people's).

Not sure if they qualify as all-out prog, though... they were all about the bombast, for sure, but thematically, I think they hewed a bit closer to the Deep Purple/Led Zeppelin end of the spectrum. I Won't Mind off of the 1974 Wonderworld album has some of the crunchiest riffs of any album released in the 1970s though, awesome stuff.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

You bring up an important point that I hope will be discussed in this thread, zulu: namely, What constitutes progressive rock/metal (with an eye focused on historical milieu and several steps away from the abstract) in this community's humble (or not so humble) opinion?  I don't think we should necessarily accept Wikipedia's definition without exception (and this is no slight to Panther_Gunn, for I agree with much of what it outlines), so I think it would be productive to share what we think are the characteristics of this multivariate musical genre.  I will reserve my own thoughts until others have chimed in (with the exception of Panther_Gunn, for he has already called me on my accidental blending of psychedelic and progressive rock :P).

:)

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[zuludelta]

My definition of prog-rock is pretty much in-line with the Wikipedia one, although I think it is a bit too broad. Saying that it is defined by the incorporation of elements "drawn from classical, jazz, and avant-garde music" and the occasional eschewing of popular music song structure (verse-chorus-verse) leaves the door open for a diverse array of artists such as Duane Allman, Jimi Hendrix, Frank Zappa, Carlos Santana, Jeff Beck, and even "noise" acts such as the Boredoms to fall cleanly within the definition, when I think most of us would probably agree that these artists are perhaps better classified under different terms.

I'm sure there's a more academic definition floating out there, but I think there exists a "common sense" notion that is just as legitimate as one that breaks the music down into its components... I've always felt that a distinct feature of prog-rock is its very measured and deliberate nature (despite the genre's reliance of certain jazz conventions). I've always felt that prog-rock's greatest strength (and its greatest weakness) is that it replaces the sensual sensibility of jazz, pop, and rock music with a more cerebral approach.

[Ephemeris]

Recently, my listening habits have been expanding from metal towards more progressive stuff.  I've been easing into Camel and Renaissance.  I've always liked Pink Floyd and The Moody Blues as well as the other 'staple' prog bands with the exception of Rush (Geddy's voice annoys me).

[The Phantom Eyebrow]

While we're questioning what qualifies as Prog Rock, is there a case to be made for The Beatles' White Album or Sgt Pepper or for Smile by the Beach Boys?

I take the point about the Heepsters being more metal than the other bands listed here ZD, and I must confess I don't have Wonderworld, so I might have to have to get a copy of that.

[RTTingle]

While we're questioning what qualifies as Prog Rock, is there a case to be made for The Beatles' White Album or Sgt Pepper or for Smile by the Beach Boys?

I take the point about the Heepsters being more metal than the other bands listed here ZD, and I must confess I don't have Wonderworld, so I might have to have to get a copy of that.

Hmmm.  Good question. 

I think it could be said they're more concept albums - than progressive.

I didn't think anybody else would have Brian Wilson's Smile other than me.  Heh.

RTT

[BWPS]

While we're questioning what qualifies as Prog Rock, is there a case to be made for The Beatles' White Album or Sgt Pepper or for Smile by the Beach Boys?

I heard a story that Brian Wilson was driving down the road when he heard the infinitely awesome Strawberry Fields Forever on the radio. It was the sound he was trying to get with SMiLE, so he was like they got it first, and that's why they didn't release the album.