Indianna Jones 4 - thoughts and so forth

[Mowgli]

Well, I'm not sorry I saw it, because there were several fun bits, but overall....?


Too much is too much.

(Spoilers Ahead)


Now I can suspend my disbelief for Indiana Jones, because he does some pretty amazing stuf. Of course it's just a movie, but...

- Surviving a nuclear blast because you are in a refridgerator
- Swinging through trees on vines faster than speeding cars that already had a big head start
- Jumping a car off a cliff, onto a tree branch, which bends perfectly down to the water (balanced the whole time), before dring off the tree branch into a river, where your car floats, and riding it off of two cliffs, staying with this car and continuing to ride in it
-There was more, but I don't want to beat a dead horse.

And the worst part...?

Aliens.

In an Indaina Jones movie. Ugh. I just shook my head while watching the movie. To me, aliens just don't fit into a Indiana Jones movie at all. Terrible decision. Ruined the movie for me. Basically unforgoivable to me. What a shame.

As for Temple of Doom.... while it was the weakest of the first three films, it is much better than Skull. It belongs in the trilogy. This X-Files sequel thing doesn't fit into the Indiana Jones mythos at all.

[Mr. Hamrick]

I have to disagree with Mowgli to an extent.

The Crystal Skull is a legitimate artifact.  The origin, and for that matter the date of origin, is a point of contention.  What is not a point of contention is that the skulls have been believe to be something of "paranormal connection" to New Age enthusiasts for decades. 

As for the Aliens connection, I don't think it was initially too far out of the realm of "Indy territory" initially.  The crash that allegedly happened in Roswell, area 51, and the growing amount of "alleged alien and UFO sightings" since the 40-50s were of the right time period that the movie took place in.  So that much of it worked for me. 

The mental ability stuff?  That worked too for the most part.  I do believe that Lucas and Spielberg were about 10 years too early with it unless they were trying to imply that the Russians were allegedly experimenting with psionics  THAT much earlier than the US was allegedly experimenting with them. 

There was so much about the movie that WAS DEAD ON what it should've been.  The film was not meant to take place immediate after "Indy and the Last Crusade" and I think that's what a lot of fans who have been complaining about it were expecting or wanting.  Personally, I think that is a bit much to ask.

HOWEVER!  I do agree in a minor way with something Mowgli pointed out. 

[spoiler]
Showing the alien ship was a bit much.  I didn't mind showing the alien corpse at the beginning or that the skulls were alien.  I didn't mind the climax showing the skulls reattached and them destroying the room. 

BUT THAT SHOULD"VE BEEN ENOUGH.  Maybe show the structure collapse afterwards.  Showing the ship though was too much.  And what more, it completely destroyed a few points that were set up earlier in the script.  (ie: connection to the Roswell crash) or at least made the points invalid. 

[/spoiler]

Spielberg and Lucas took a great idea but killed it by pushing the logic of it too far.  Aliens and the paranormal fit in fine at the beginning of the movie given when the movie takes place but by the end, they ruined it by showing too much "alien". 

[Spam]

Finally got to see this movie. To sum it up, I enjoyed it. I wasn't expecting it to be amazing or anything, but it was just a fun, entertaining movie. Better then Temple of Doom, at least in my opinion. Gosh, Temple of Doom was just annoying. Especially that little kid... guh.

So, I could write out a review with some nitpicks that were in the movie, 'cause let's face it, there were some. But I'm not mainly because I'm too lazy, and also because it would take far too long. But all you need to know is that it's a good movie. It's not the next Raiders, or Last Crusade, but I think it's made it's spot firmly on the Indy trilogy... which would now make it a what, quadrupilogy? *shrugs*

FORIAMSPAM!

[GogglesPizanno]

Ive already been pretty vocal in my dislike for the film... And I am pretty much in the minority. Thats cool. I can accept that.

But I feel i need to step up in the defense of Temple of Doom.
Just as the new film is not near as good as you think it is...
Temple of Doom is not near as bad. I think it succeeds in all the ways people think crystal skull did.
Moments of Annoying? You betcha... But annoying in that somehow fitting way... i.e.
[spoiler]
No Tarzan Monkeys, No Rubber Looney Tunes Tree (friends term not mine), No Aliens, and No "Nuke the Fridge"
[/spoiler]

Kali Ma, Shakti Day!!

[TheMarvell]

I'm going to be in the minority here, but so be it.

I pretty much hated the movie. In fact, to keep things short, my opinion is exactly identical to everything Mowgli posted. 100%, couldn't agree more.

I knew I was seeing a bad movie when they nuked the fridge. That scene alone was so outlandish to me. My girlfriend saw the look of utter disbelief on my face after that scene and says to me "hey...it's Indiana Jones", but then I saw the same exact look on her face after they introduced the aliens. And the Tarzan scene? Yeah, just like Mowgli said, I'm beating a dead horse.

This wasn't Indiana Jones. Seeing Harrison Ford return as Indy is really the only positive thing I can say about this movie. Kate Blanchett and Shia LeBouf were good, but nowhere near enough to save this movie. This was easily one of the biggest disappointments I've seen in a while, and that kills me to say.

The only other thing I can say about it that hasn't been pointed out is that to me, it felt like there were two movies merged. Had this been a completely new franchise with the alien stuff, I'd like it. But this was not Indiana Jones, and frankly, I'm shocked to see how many people liked it...

Nuke the fridge...I can't believe that's already an official internet term now. Really, what were they thinking?? I remember watching interviews with Ford saying he wanted to make improvements on the script during Star Wars (because Lucas really sucks at writing dialog), so, um, why didn't he say "uh, this nuking the fridge idea is retarded, guys"? Gahhhhh just thinking about it makes me frustrated, lol.

[detourne_me]

everyones forgetting about the ants... THE ANTS!!
at that point my GF said to me,  "I really don't like this movie."

[TheMarvell]

lol, I didn't forget the ants. I just don't think that part is nearly as bad as all the other bad scenes. It was really over-the-top, but way more plausible than nuking the fridge and the tarzan/monkey scene. Seeing them "build a ladder" of themselves to go after Kate Blanchett's character was a lot to take in too, but I remember seeing some African ants actually doing something similar on the discovery channel so that didn't bother me as much.

more on the aliens. Even though there are myths about them concerning early civilization, I still don't think it belongs in the Indiana Jones mythos. Certainly not how its portrayed in the movie with the corpses and the ufo at the end. Like I said, had they put this part of the story in an entirely new adventure franchise I probably would have liked it a lot more, but not in Indiana Jones.

[docdelorean88]

I think what many people were expecting was The Last Crusade Part 2 and that is false hope, might i add that aliens pretty much were the only major phenomenon in the 50s. So while every one is putting it down i thought i might throw in that yes the nuke the fridge scene is unrealistic, but think about it. He would have been protected from the radiation, the hindges on the door would be soft when he landed so he could have gotten out, and really why would they put indy into a coma at the begining of the movie? So of course he is going to be unharmed. For a movie that was already 6 feet under during its developement, i think it was much better than previous drafts. Just think if the aliens bug you now what would you have done after Indiana Jones and the Saucer from Mars.

[BentonGrey]

http://www.sheldoncomics.com/

[GogglesPizanno]

http://www.sheldoncomics.com/

Ding Ding we have a winner!

[bredon7777]

http://www.sheldoncomics.com/

Ding Ding we have a winner!

Not completely. Spielberg shares the blame, after all.

[RTTingle]

http://www.sheldoncomics.com/

Ding Ding we have a winner!

Not completely. Spielberg shares the blame, after all.

I'm pretty sure Spielburg is the one kept this move from completely sucking.

RTT

[docdelorean88]

Cute clip (though i stand my ground firmly on this subject) up till that whole back to the future thing. That one hurt. I LOVE that movie! I mean after all split up my name, as well as the quotes (to your left and to your bottom)... Told ya! I'm also decent with trivia on the 3 movies.

[steamteck]

http://www.sheldoncomics.com/

Ding Ding we have a winner!

Not completely. Spielberg shares the blame, after all.

I'm pretty sure Spielburg is the one kept this move from completely sucking.




RTT

That was my feeling from interviews with them both about it . also. I pretty much agree with renegade's comments earlier also.. it really wouldn't have taken much to really clean this movie up nicely. I agree about Kasdan( huge fan of his work0 and lets not forget that SF writer Leigh brackett did most of the writing on Empire Strikes back ( but died  before she finished the screenplay. I think Lucas in paticular has had others to clean up and lift up his ideas or even provide the spark.

[TheMarvell]

I personally enjoyed all 3 Star Wars prequels more than Indy 4... :banghead:

[Previsionary]

well, the original script is out again and: CLICK

Apparently, Ford and Steven liked it, George Lucas did not. So, I guess you can put more blame on him than Steven. Also, no Shia character.

WARNING: site contains some cursing in comments so...proceed with caution.

[thalaw2]

I just saw this movie and I read some you guys's opinions first so I was expecting to hate it....but I thought it was good.  It had some good funny moments.  There was some awkardness but it wasn't too bad for me.  As the series goes this fits well in there with the other 3.  I suppose one major difference might be that I thought the first 2 movies were just so so, so the fourth one didn't have much to live up to for me.

I especially like the very end.  That was some nice closure to the series IMO.


EDIT:  I thought the fridge scene was funny!  Much funnier than him running from a giant rock in the orignal movie.

[GogglesPizanno]

I thought the first 2 movies were just so so

BLASPHEMY!!

I thought the fridge scene was funny!  Much funnier than him running from a giant rock in the orignal movie.

HEATHEN!!!

I especially like the very end.  That was some nice closure to the series IMO.

(To quote Darth Vader)
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Riding into the sunset is always a classier ending.

[TheMarvell]

sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who hated this film. At least 5 of my friends liked it, and even my own mom, who normally doesn't like big action movies like this. I mean, she didn't like Batman Begins or The League of Extraordinary Gentleman, but thought Indy 4 was good? And one of my best friends freakin hated Narnia 2, but thought Indy 4 was decent. Some people make no sense.

I must be blind though. How the hell does this 4th installment fit in well with the series?

[Panther_Gunn]

Saw the movie a week or two ago, after avoiding this thread like the plague, to avoid spoilers and forming preconcieved opinions.  I pretty much liked it.....up until a point.  The car chase through the jungle dragged on for *way* longer than it needed to, and the less said about the monkeys, the better.  I was ok with the alien plot, until it got to be too much at the end.  The skeletons, the ship, the *huge* hole in the ground after it left....too much.  I shoulf have left the theater feeling like I did after Iron Man and Transformers, but instead I felt more like I did when I left after Spider-Man 3 and Fantastic Four (1&2). 

For other points people have brought up about it, I'll start off by saying:

McCarthyism wasn't a subplot.  It was the driving force of the 50s, and the driving force of the film.

Academics were exactly the kinds of people (along with Hollywood celebrities) who were targeted as communists and communist sympathizers, and who were let go from their jobs.   The part about Indy's war record was perfect, too, because no one was exempt.

Aliens and communist psychics were perfect foils, too ... although most people were only familiar with the former, the latter was more of a state secret.   The 50s were a time when UFOs buzzed the White House (52, I believe) and were front page news everywhere.

We later learned about this concerted effort on the part of the communists to use psychics in the cold war against the U.S.; there are countless books on the subject.

And rather than the refrigerator saving Indy from the nuke being a ridiculous mistake (and of course it was ridiculous) I believe that that was another nod to the 50s "wishful thinking"  -- after all, it was a time when we were all taught that in case of a nuclear strike, all we had to do to be safe was "duck and cover" under our school desks.

Even Henry the 3rds constantly combing his hair was a homage to one of the great TV shows (and songs) of the 50s.   There was a character named Kookie on a show called "77 Sunset Strip" that constantly combed his hair that way ... and it became a famous song at the time "Kookie, Kookie ... lend me your comb."

Like most things SS directs this was multi-layered, great action for the youngest of us, wonderful 50s references to the oldest of us.

I'm glad u liked it enough to give it a B ... but for us old foggies and ancient spirits out here, it was pure A+   

Thank you for saying all of that so I didn't have to!  So much of that hit things right on the head.  I think the problem they ran into was that they were using points that are less known about than they think they are, showing that they're both out of touch with present day audiences. 

I knew the second there wasn't any water at the house in the desert where he was, and what they were going to lead up to.  And I was giddy thinking about how Indy was going to react to it all, wondering how he was going to get out of it.  For everybody that couldn't hang with the fridge scene (especially Goggles), how much more of a stretch is that than riding a life raft down to a mountain from an airplane?  You have to keep in mind the spirit of the genre Lucas & Spielberg were trying to capture, and take it for what it is.

Indy's activities during the war also weren't a contradiction of character, as his experiences with the Nazis would convince him just how much of a threat they would be if they got their hands on the wrong items or info.  While it wasn't stated one way or the other, I'm sure he started out in some kind of advisory role, but as we all know, Indy can't *not* get involved in the action, so ending up with an actual comission, to give him the authority that he needs to get things done, or even as an after-action, to spin some semi-sanctioned activities into official business, is a logical sequence of events.  And "spy" work suits Indy better than running a supply depot, developing battlefield strategy, or commanding a tank division.  Working (mostly) alone and gathering information is what he does best.

Just because movie makers are out of touch with the current general public's movie expectations doesn't automatically mean they made bad choices, nor that there's no audience for their movie.  However, it doesn't excuse *every* problem with a movie, either.

[GogglesPizanno]

sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who hated this film.

You are not...

For everybody that couldn't hang with the fridge scene (especially Goggles), how much more of a stretch is that than riding a life raft down to a mountain from an airplane?

I get to hate on the fourth AND defend the Second in a single breath...I'm giddy  :P

Actually, I understand the argument that is being made there in theory. But suspension of disbelief is like art appreciation in that every persons response is gonna vary. The raft scene in ToD, was ridiculous, but at least seemed credible in the sense that they physically did it (granted it was with miniatures) but there was a physicality to it that you don't get with CGI, so while you may not believe that someone could have survived it, there at least was a feeling of "The thing sorta floats and slows the decent" cause there was a physical thing actually doing it. The Fridge WAS HIT WITH A NUCLEAR BOMB... I'm sorry that goes beyond fun loving spirit and into the realm of "Oh Come On" but that my personal opinion.

And from my standpoint, all the communist, McCarthyism plot points were a really solid premise and had they done something good with them, I think it could have been awesome. But no, it was a film that had some great ideas in there, but with really poor execution that got bogged down in stupidity.