Is there any way to make 'flash' useful?

[Carravaggio]

Because while most other controllers get some great crowd control effects (stone cages, crushing field etc.) illusion control seems to be missing the multiple foe affecting powers of their peers.
I had flash on a now deleted character and it never seemed to affect a great area, nor have much affect on those it did hit.
Flash seems to be the only group affecting power at the earlier levels, kinda sucks that it...sucks...so much.
Is there any way it can be made useful?
why does it not affect foes in range?
is it any sort of substitute for other controller flavour group affecting powers?

[captainspud]

The AoE holds on Controllers, other than /Rad's EMP, aren't really useful. The radius is too small, the accuracy is too low, and the recharge is too long. Dropping Phantom Army does far more to stop incoming damage than Flash ever will.

[El Condor]

That animation sure makes it look like it should be doing something, doesn't it? :P

Yes, Flash really isn't worth trying to fix - there are plenty of good powers in this set that are much more effective coming out of the box.  The best thing is to do is to start thinking of the set in a different way because that mass, crowd-controlling lockdown hold is never really going to available to you as reliable tool.  As Spud said, Phantom Army all the way.

EC

[GhostMachine]

Flash stinks because of its low accuracy, long recharge (4 minutes) and the fact that its a pbaoe; if it was a targeted aoe, it *might* be worth taking....as a desperation move. As-is, its suicidal. I made the huge mistake of taking it on Rad Golem (my Illusion/Rad Controller) and used a free respec to get rid of it asap; the only power I ever dumped almost as quickly is Voltaic Sentinel on GhostMachine. According to Mids' Hero Designer, Flash only has an inherent accuracy of 60%, while Blind, which targets only one mob but is ranged, has an inherent accuracy of 82.5%. That's ludicrous, since using Flash puts you at far more risk than using Blind does; Flash should really have an inherent accuracy of about 70% - still lower than normal, but not handicapping. The only way to make Flash viable as-is is to spend more slots on accuracy depending on what enhancers you slot, and then its really still not worth it. According to Mids', at lvl 50 2 acc IOs only gives Flash an accuracy rating of 110%, while they give Blind an accuracy of 151.2%

When I am running Rad Golem I use Blind and Deceive to lock down targets when I either can't use Phantom Army (in other words, its recharging) or don't want to use it (not enough targets to justify it), making sure I get some hits in on whatever the mob I've used Deceive on is attacking so I get xp (you get xp as long as you do some dmg to the mob, whether you defeat it or the mob you've Deceived does). I rarely rely on Spectral Terror to lock down mobs, and don't have Phantasm yet. (RG is only 26 or 27, if I remember right - I haven't used him in well over a week)

Anyone know if Choking Cloud is even worth taking?

[BlueBard]

I dumped Flash very early on with my Ill/Emp Controller.  It just has too many problems.

As stated, it's a PBAoE.  PBAoE is fine for certain powers as long as it does one of two things: massive damage or escape clause.  Flash doesn't do any damage, so it's useless for attacking.  So does it have any value as 'escape clause' (stopping the mobs long enough to recover or get away)?

No.  It is a hold, but even apart from the accuracy and recharge issues it is of short-duration.  So what I find with Flash is the following situation:

1. I'm in the middle of a group of enemies.
2. The group is going to recover very quickly.
3. The group aggro is going to focus on me, especially if I'm soloing.
4. I'm a squishy controller.

Thus it isn't even a very good panic button power.

So the only way to fix Flash is if the dev's change the power.  The only way I'd consider it is if they fixed two or more of it's problems: range, accuracy, recharge, duration.

So rather than take Flash, you ought to take either a secondary or a pool power.  If you're determined to take it, the only viable strategy I can see for using it is to sneak in invisibly and soften up a group right before the tanks, scrappers, and blappers charge in to grab the aggro.

[Verfall]

Just playing around in Mids, using Ill/FF as template, the best I was able to get for Flash recharge was around 60 seconds. With one level 50 hold IO it had a duration of 21 seconds. This was a seriously gimped build though, and was packed full of purple sets.

The Controller PBAOE holds are basically novelties and Oh Shoot! powers. At best they become home to IO sets. They are nice for setting up containment, and pinning a boss quickly, but with zero hold enhances you have all of 14 seconds to take down that spawn before they wake up and are very ticked.

Illusion trollers are somewhat hosed for control until 26 and Spectral Terror. They basically have to be quick with their single target hold and confuse when the Army is down, or have a nice mitigating secondary like FF or Rad or Storm.

But Flash has one thing going for it. You can shout out LOOK AT MY BOOBIES! before you use it  :thumbup:

[Midnight]

Anyone know if Choking Cloud is even worth taking?

I like it.

[captainspud]

Choking Cloud is fantastic. On my Fire/Rad, I fire Cinders first to stun the mob, then hop in with the Cloud and Hot Feet active. By the time the stun wears off, Choking Cloud has half the mob held. It's a very effective way of continuing an initial AoE control. However, it makes a really crappy first control, because it takes a few seconds to start affecting people, and you'll get killed in the interim if they're not constrained by something else.

Of special note, though-- don't even think about taking Choking Cloud unless you already have max Stamina and are ready to immediately invest three EndRedux in it. I'm not sure if anything's changed, but the last time I checked, Choking Cloud had the highest endurance cost of any toggle in the game.

[GhostMachine]

Choking Cloud is fantastic. On my Fire/Rad, I fire Cinders first to stun the mob, then hop in with the Cloud and Hot Feet active. By the time the stun wears off, Choking Cloud has half the mob held. It's a very effective way of continuing an initial AoE control. However, it makes a really crappy first control, because it takes a few seconds to start affecting people, and you'll get killed in the interim if they're not constrained by something else.

Of special note, though-- don't even think about taking Choking Cloud unless you already have max Stamina and are ready to immediately invest three EndRedux in it. I'm not sure if anything's changed, but the last time I checked, Choking Cloud had the highest endurance cost of any toggle in the game.

The end cost is still high, which is why I was asking if its any good or not.

[Carravaggio]

Thanks for the feedback guys, looks like I'll have to wait til Phantom Army before i can actually 'control' more than three foes at a time :(

[captainspud]

The end cost is still high, which is why I was asking if its any good or not.

It depends on your primary, I suppose. On my Fire/Rad/Fire, I only need to fire three click powers on each spawn-- Cinders, Fire Cages, and Fireball. After that, I dive in, letting Choking Cloud continue the control, and Hot Feet finish the burn. My toggles are expensive, but since I'm not firing many clicks, my END doesn't really suffer. If you don't have a way to kill your opponents without clicks (ie, a good pet, or an AoE of some sort), then you might find the cloud to be too draining.

[BlueBard]

Thanks for the feedback guys, looks like I'll have to wait til Phantom Army before i can actually 'control' more than three foes at a time :(

What's your secondary?

[Carravaggio]

Storm summoning.
the gale attack is ok to make some room and keep creeps off their feet, as is snow storm to slow them down, so i see your point, I may be an illusion controller, but i can control via storm powers.
i guess I've just been spoiled by too many good earth trollers, was on a group with six (!) of them, easiest missions evah, no one can escape six simultaneous fossilised cages :D and i wanted a bit of that action with the illusion set. np i can work up the storm until i get PA, cheers for the info guys

[BlueBard]

PA is simply awesome.  It keeps the aggro firmly focused away from the Controller and helps distract the bad guys from the other squishies.

I've also become a fan of Spectral Terror, as it serves to further distract the enemies so that they don't hit quite as often when they do attack.

With Phantasm on top of that, my Ill/Emp can basically run around with Superior Invisibility and concentrate on either healing his teammates or softening up the enemies with his other illusion powers.  He can even reasonably solo, as long as he watches his end and uses his powers intelligently.

I don't do a lot of damage, but mitigation is great!

Once you get PA, the combination of Ill/Storm should allow you to keep the enemies largely ineffective.  I'll have to try it myself someday!