Question to meshes/modellers here...

[Indigo]

Just wanna ask the meshers here, how did you guys learn how to do 3d modelling?  Did you guys somehow went to some 3d/multimedia arts school/degree?  Is 3d modelling a big part in your line of profession?

I used to do small 3d modelling during the height of CnC Generals Zero Hour hype (doing low poly crappy tanks), but I never tried to mesh for FF. 

What is the ideal (min & max) poly count for a FF mesh anyway?

[Valandar]

Well, I actually kinda sorta do this for a living, to be honest. But I am entirely self taught, with absolutely no computer graphics courses to my name. The only art course post High-School I ever took was Intro to Figure Drawing 1101 in college... run by a frustrated Grad student who rapidly burned out the most creative of her students.

I originally began using Rhino 3D to do my modelling, and only using Max to bring it all together. But I got sick and tired of not having any control over polygon placement, so I started modelling entirely in Max. This actually improved my hi-res skills for work, as well, and nowadays the bills are easily covered just a short way into the month.

[Indigo]

Wow, good to know that you're self-taught Valendar. :thumbup:
Atleast I know I still have a chance even without formal lessons.

[yell0w_lantern]

Self-taught via books (mainly Paul Steed), DVDs and asking questions from the meshers that came before me.
My real job is in medicine. I rotate meshing with my numerous other hobbies.

2000 polys or less, btw

[tommyboy]

All the good stuff I know tended to come from the tutorials by Valandar, Grenadier, Jik, Beyonder, Vertex, Renegade etc etc, or by asking them questions. And a couple of free online tutorials found via Gooooooogle.
All the shoddy, poorly done parts of my meshes are entirely self taught....   

[ow_tiobe_sb]

Everything I don't know about meshing was self-taught.  Everything I should know about meshing I could read in several books I own or in Grenadier's, Beyonder's, and Valandar's tutorials or in tommyboy's PMs, but I haven't because I never learned to read.

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[Renegade]

Entirely self taught. I learned it first reading the manuals on the job for a 3D gaming company I briefly worked for back in 95', then talked to associates who used it for several years after that. I learned a bit more from online tutorials, The 3D max visual quickstart guide, and conversations with Grenadier and Vertex. I do have a background in comicbook art and computer based animation, so that helps, although all that was self taught too.


---RENEGADE

[Indigo]

I'm just so amazed that almost alot of the talents here are self taught.

Where's these tutorials you guys are talking about, the ones in the FF wiki?

[UnfluffyBunny]

not that I really count :P
but most of what i've learnt about specific FF meshing has been from Val, Beyonder and Tommyboy, learning to actually use max there's an immense multitude of tutorials online, looking up a few 3d work sites wont hurt, my personal preference is polycount.com

[Previsionary]

I'm just so amazed that almost alot of the talents here are self taught.

Where's these tutorials you guys are talking about, the ones in the FF wiki?

I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot...but the "list of tutorials" thread that I compiled links to most of the still standing FF-related meshing tutorials.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

I'm just so amazed that almost alot of the talents here are self taught.

I'm just a tad disappointed that when six out of six of the active and semi-active meshers posting in this thread confess they are self-taught, they still fall shy of a lot.  Would it improve our numbers at all if the six of us posted here a second time to say that we are self-taught?

;)

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[Indigo]

I can't help it since from where I came from, some modellers had scholastic background in 3d arts, I even encountered one who was a 3ds max instructor, another who is now currently working for EA, and someone who worked with Red Orchestra.

Well from the looks of this, I guess I still have a chance then. :thumbup:

[Valandar]

I'm just so amazed that almost alot of the talents here are self taught.

I wouldn't be, most of us are amateurs.

[Xenolith]

I think there would be many more self-taught folks making meshes if the software was available. 

I'd love to work on keyframes.  Is there another program I could purchase that would allow me to do so?  Thanks.

[yell0w_lantern]

Try and Buy of Max 5 easily found.

[Xenolith]

Well, shoot, I can't find it.  Every link I stuble across is to version 9.  Any ideas on how to find 5?

[Trelau]

sorry to dig up that thread, but i actually decide to throw myself into meshing/animating a few thing for FF (i'm in my last year in a "computer graphic" school -i think that's how you call them-)
2000 poly for a character...that like 5 time less than a real-time engine nowadays...but at least i understand why the mesh have no fingers...did anyone ever try to test the limit of the engine so that we know exactly the maximum polygon  number before the game crashes?

so i have only one question: i'm a little confused about the animation; and i think i completely miss the point. how the hell do i get all my animation together into a file for freedom force (like; from begining to the end ). oh, and how do i tell wich animation is mele and wich is area...and the number of contact...
or maybe a link to the step-by-step tuto?

[tommyboy]

Trelau, have you downloaded the Modtools, Editor, Character Tool etc. In amongst those is the Art Processes Documentation, which explains about animations and so forth:
[spoiler]The Freedom Force exporter searches for note track keys within 3D Studio Max's Track View that indicate where the single continuous animation of the max file should be broken into the small segments required by Freedom Force (running, walking, jumping, etc). This means that all your animations are done within the one Max file.



Note tracks are also used to describe special moments in time within the animation segments. For example; when a character leaves the ground during a jump sequence, or when a punch should connect with the enemy.



There should only be one note track in your character's Max file. In the original Freedom Force, the note track was placed directly on the scene root (called Objects). However, this was changed for Freedom Force Vs The 3rd Reich and it now resides on a separate node under the scene root.



To fix this up for old characters:

   1. Create a new dummy helper object and name it "Root_NoteTrack" and add a new note track under this object.
   2. Use the time select mode in track view to highlight the old note track in the scene root.
   3. Copy/paste this to the new note track on the dummy object.
   4. Make sure you delete the old note track from the scene root.
   5. Any additional objects that are not linked directly to the character should be linked to the Root_NoteTrack. These include nodes such as the "weapon" marker or effects such as particles and swish trails.



All animations begin with the prefix 'start –name' followed by the animation name.  Looped animations need the suffix '-loop'.  The end of the sequence is marked by an 'end' key.  For example:





Note: The name of the animation sequence cannot contain spaces.




The Animation Segments



Here is a list of the note track keys we use in Freedom Force. Your character may contain some or all of the animation segments.  For any animation that's missing in your character, the IDLE animation will be played by default.  Your character MUST contain an idle animation.





EXAMPLES:



start –name "sequence_name"

key_01  [marks events such as left foot down]

key_02  [marks events such as right foot down]

end







LIST:



[IDLE]

start -name idle

end



[RUN]

start -name run

lf

rf

end



Note: 'lf' and 'rf'' should appear on most decent sized footfalls in any animation sequence. They stand for 'left foot' and 'right foot ' and trigger the sound effects, as well as decals in some cases.



[WALK]

start -name walk

lf

rf

end



[DEATH FALL]

start -name fall

end



[PAIN]

start –name pain

end



Note: Pain is for when a character gets hit.  It needs keys at the start and end but is not an animation.



[POWER]

start –name power

end



Note: Power is for when the character obtains a can of Energy X or a prize.



[CLIMB]

start -name climb

lc

rc

end



[PICK UP POLE]

start -name pick_up_pole

joins_hand

end



[STAND WITH POLE]

start –name stand_with_pole

end



[WALK WITH POLE]

start –name walk_with_pole

end



[RUN WITH POLE]

start –name run_with_pole

lf

rf

end



[SWING  POLE]

start –name swing_pole

contact_start

contact_end

end



[DROP  POLE]

start –name drop_pole

leave_hand

end



[PICK UP OBJECT]

start -name pick_up_object

joins_hand

end



[STAND WITH OBJECT]

start -name stand_with_object

end



[WALK WITH OBJECT]

start -name walk_with_object

end



[THROW OBJECT]

start -name throw_object

leave_hand

end



[TAKE FLIGHT]

start -name take_flight

leave_ground

end



[FLY]

start -name fly

end



[LAND FROM FLIGHT]

start -name land_from_flight

hit_ground

end



[JUMP RUN] (currently unimplemented)

start -name jump_run

leave_ground

end



Note: This is a jump that plays directly off the end of a run loop.



[JUMP STAND]

start -name jump_stand

leave_ground

end



Note: This is a jump from the idle position.



[HOVER]

start -name hover

end



Note: This is also used for hovering during flying.



[LAND FROM JUMP]

start -name land_from_jump

hit_ground

end



[FLAILING FORWARD]

start -name flailing_forward

end



Note: This is for when a character is hit or flung through the air.  When a character is flying in one direction (i.e. back) and hits a wall he can then switch to flailing in the opposite direction when he bounces off it (i.e. forward).



[LAND FORWARD]

start -name land_forward

end



[GET UP FORWARD]

start -name get_up_forward

end



[FLAILING BACK]

start -name flailing_back

end



[LAND BACK]

start -name land_back

end



[GET UP BACK]

start -name get_up_back

end



[DODGE RIGHT]

start -name dodge_right

end



Note: The direction of the dodge does not affect game play.



[DODGE LEFT]

start -name dodge_left

end



[MELEE IDLE]

start -name melee_idle

end



Note: Melee idle is the action stance and all melee animations should blend off it. Different melee attacks must be numbered from 2 upwards.  You can animate variations for the one melee attack by adding a letter.  'Contact' is the point of impact for melee attacks.  For multiple contact points, number them upwards from 2, i.e. contact, contact_2, contact_3.



[MELEE]

start -name melee

contact

end



[MELEE 2]

start -name melee_2

contact

end



[MELEE 2 VARIATION]

start -name melee_2_a

contact

end



[RANGED]

start -name ranged

leave_hand

end



Note:  Different ranged or area attacks are numbered like melees, but you cannot have variations. 'Leave_hand' keys indicate when the beam or power is actually triggered. Ranged attacks can have multiple leave_hand keys, numbered like the contact points in melee.



[AREA]

start -name area

leave_hand

end



[SPECIAL]

start -name special

leave_hand

end



[DIRECT]

start -name direct

leave_hand

end



[HOVER RANGED]

start -name hover_ranged

leave_hand

end



Note: "Hover" animation variations of these attacks are for when the character is flying.



[HOVER AREA]

start -name hover_area

leave_hand

end



[HOVER SPECIAL]

start -name hover_special

leave_hand

end



[HOVER DIRECT]

start -name hover_direct

leave_hand

end



[ACTIVE DEFENCE]

start -name active_defence

end



Note:  Active defence is a defence you actually trigger as a power. Passive defence occurs automatically. You can also do hovering versions.



[PASSIVE DEFENCE] (currently unimplemented)

start -name passive_defence

end



[HIT AND STUNNED]

start -name hit_and_stunned

end



[STUNNED]

start -name stunned

end



[RECOVER FROM STUN]

start -name recover_from_stun

end

[/spoiler]

It's easier to follow in the actual docs as there are pics too. I'd also recommend downloading some of Irrationals Max files so you can see how its all done in Max itself.

[yell0w_lantern]

Yeah, basically you have one long animation file with a note track telling the engine how to use it. I recommend looking at a max file.

[Volsung]

Trelau, you're french, are you?
Or at least you're from a french speaking country? :P

I can give you some hints in that good'ol Moliere's tongue  by Pm if you want. :)

[Trelau]

aaaaah...the art process documentation...nope, don't have it, i only had the character tool and now that you say it, the "manual" of the character tool mention the art process doc for those who wants to do animation...
freedom fans seems to be down for now (bandwith limit problem) so i can't get the art process doc and the mod tool and everything else from there, is there anywhere else i can get it?

volsung! j'avais des doutes (le robot napoléon?) mais je n'étais pas sur. si tu as des conseils ou des explications supplémentaires je ne suis pas contre, j'ai été pris d'un fièvre créatrice et j'ai envie de me dérouiller sur max avant la rentrée, alors j'essaye d'en profiter pour faire mes premier pas dans le modding pour freedom force...et je sens que ça va me plaire

sorry about that, but i don't have much opportunities to speak french around here.
anyway, thanks everyone, i'll let you know if everything turn out ok for me (with volsung looking out for me i'm not too worry)

[Tomato]

http://www.irrationalgames.com/modforce/ArtProc/ is up fyi. It's only the ff1 stuff, but most meshes are made for ff1 anyway.

[Trelau]

thanks! i'll look into it, but it seems that it's exactly what i needed