tommyboy's Map Making Misadventures and Conundrums

[stumpy]

 :thumbup: Awesome!

[tommyboy]

Mission.dat currently at 61.5Mb and growing.
On the plus side, Mission.mg hasn't grown at all as I feared it might, it's still at a very trim and compact 88Mb, so the contents of that missions folder is currently 152Mb.
It's Finished! Mission.dat= 66.6Mb (is that an omen...)
The generated level.txt file has 65662 lines, meaning 65661 objects in the map, before any heroes are loaded.
Time to try and run it again...
Aaaarghhhh! got 55somethingthousand objects loaded then got:
'alert: CFastHeap::allocate failed, Out of main memory.'
I'll try trimming the file down, there are, after all, over 500 rats on the map, I can lose some of them, surely.
But yeah, other than that I think we are in business, sort of. 

[GogglesPizanno]

But you still haven't added all the ezscript markers, or rumble room markers....
I think you might just be a masochist... Nice job though!

On the plus side you have actually got me at least opening up all my in progress never to be finished maps and thinking "Maybe I could get just this one finished"

[tommyboy]

I finally got the map to load, after some nasty BSOD type troubles.
The odd thing is I changed the X and Y co-ord boundaries to 9000, -9000, 9000, -9000, which given the extents are 13842.4,13938.6,
-13834.8,-13536.8 you might think was too small. But it fills the map top to bottom, and only misses the last half-block on the left and right.
Here it is in all its glory:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

I've edited the original template to remove all rats, pigeons, and bits of paper. Cut the fuseboxes from 2 to 1, removed one cop car from the junction, so theres 'only' 27000 or so objects in the level. And surprisingly, it runs just fine on my system (2.6gig core duo with 2gig of ram and an 8800gt geforce), even at my default settings of 1280x1024 32bit fsaa.
I did go back into 3dsmax to add the splines for civs and traffic, but they dont seem to be working, so I'll have to keep trying.
Tonight if I can I'll transpose it to FF (the testing is in ffv3r so far) to see if it works.
Then if I have the energy I'll see about sticking a custom building (or more) dotted around..

[stumpy]

That looks very cool Tommy.

I wonder if the map has some blank area past what's visible on the map?

BTW, I noticed that the buildings and such can look a little repetitious. If you want, you could create a 2x1, 2x3, or whatever template of blocks and then duplicate those over the map by changing the DELTA_X and DELTA_Y settings. That would save you a little effort in adding random buildings later on...

And, 27000 objects. Holy cats! :blink:

[AfghanAnt]

Tha map is amazing and I can't wait until you release it.

[Blkcasanova247]

 :blink: :blink: :blink: Damn..that' a big map! Lots of superhero destruction is afoot!  :thumbup:

[The_Baroness]

This is really Amazing...

Behold-- the Big map of DOOM

[tommyboy]

Heres my proposed layout for a Marvel_megacity.
Apologies to those inhabitants of Manhattan whose city I've mangled, but there are limits to what one can do (when one is sloppy and lazy).
WARNING:LARGE IMAGE (again...)
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Now, there are obviously a few more landmarks, real and imaginary that can be added, and if people want to request them, here's the place to do so.
Assume I'm an idiot, and that a picture and location will help immensely. Those of great initiative could even mark on the map I just posted where they would like stuff.
Bear in mind that although marked as a whole block, many buildings like Doc Stranges house do not fill a whole block. I'd argue that some biggies like Avengers mansion and the Baxter Building could well take up a block, what with rockets and quinjets and pogo planes and whatnot.
Although I am willing to try to do it all myself, I throw it open to the community to suggest/contribute/heckle about/to/at this project.

Oh, and there is (in my head at least) a plan to do a 'generic' manhattan/megacity map, devoid of Marvel trademarks, as well, for DC/other use.

Soooo.....whaddaya think?

[stumpy]

That map will be a great boon for all sorts of Marvel projects. Even if one is doing an Avengers mod with no Fantastic Four appearances, it will still be cool to cruise past the Baxter Buildiing.  :cool:

[GogglesPizanno]

That's an amazing piece of work.

The only issue i see (aside from those with lower powered computers) is that any mission or Mod that takes advantage of it is really gonna have to take into account size as an issue and plan placement accordingly. If you just were to try and play that in a generic rumble room session, my fear is that the characters would spend most of the time potentially running all over Manhattan just trying to get to one another.

[tommyboy]

That's an amazing piece of work.

The only issue i see (aside from those with lower powered computers) is that any mission or Mod that takes advantage of it is really gonna have to take into account size as an issue and plan placement accordingly. If you just were to try and play that in a generic rumble room session, my fear is that the characters would spend most of the time potentially running all over Manhattan just trying to get to one another.

Yes.
There could easily be issues with the AI not 'seeing' you at far distances. And trying to find that stubborn last enemy on a map this size if they aren't 'looking' for you will be a nightmare.
I'm thinking it's more useful for freeroam type mods than for most standard campaigns or rumble battles, but even in a standard rumble room mission it will be nice to not hit the 'edge of the world' quite so soon, and those big brawls with characters being knocked back a block or two should be more interesting as the fight can spread out. There could and should be some slight variations on tactics, and stuff thats been done in other mods like Hospitals to heal injuries could be interesting.
And standard 'find' missions go up a notch now, as could timed runs from one side to the other.
I'm hopeful that the addition of some new maps will open up more than just a different coloured background to do the same types of things in the same ways. Good map design (which I can't do yet) should add something to a game in a similar way that FFX type add-ons do.

[GogglesPizanno]

Its actually given me an idea for a rumble room mode I originally conceived of as an FFX plug in back when I did the Police and Hospital ones (it was gonna be my trilogy of interactive plugins) -- but I think with a map this size and a little extra scripting (and marker placement), it could work pretty well as its own new game type.

Hmmmmm.... must start some experimenting.

[yell0w_lantern]

Yeah, I need to get back to the map attempts myself.

[tommyboy]

Some progress on the Marvel Megacity(but at the cost of not playing with FFx3.3 yet :().
I've added what will pass for Central Park. I know, it's tiny, nowhere near as big as it should be, and so on and so forth. Sadly, my map can't really be to scale as yet. Maybe one day, but not now.
Need I mention that its a large image? I thought not:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Note off to the right my first attempt at placing Avengers Mansion (AKA the mansion from the Berlin maps), albeit one block too far 'south'.

And either 'side' of the map, we have River:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Further off you see the irritatingly still-not-working skysphere, which can only be seen when you get close anyway.
At present you can walk on the water, which I hope to address. For now call it 'swimming'.
I'm thinking that both these features (park and river) will be included in the 'generic' megacity as well, just for a bit of variety.

Word of warning to those who may wish to further ammend the map in the editor: it will seemingly let you delete/move etc objects that are setup in 'level.txt', but will not actually save any of these changes. You have to edit the text by hand, seeking out the bit you want based on finding its co-ordinates first. Unless I'm doing something elsewrong, which would not surprise me.

Endless updates will doubtless follow, unless I decide to just shut up till something gets finished...

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Word of warning to those who may wish to further ammend the map in the editor: it will seemingly let you delete/move etc objects that are setup in 'level.txt', but will not actually save any of these changes. You have to edit the text by hand, seeking out the bit you want based on finding its co-ordinates first. Unless I'm doing something elsewrong, which would not surprise me.

As a matter of fact, yes you are, but it's rather tricky and counter-intuitive, so I'm not surprised.

In order for any changes to objects in level.txt to stick, you must have those objects actually showing in the editor, with that window opens, at the time but checking off the appropriate tick box.  Do so, and you can move or delete those objects as you wish to.

[AfghanAnt]

This is honestly the most exciting thing I've seen done for FF since FFX.

[herodad1]

a map with avengers mansion and the baxter building.cool.could also throw in dr.strange's sanctum.

[stumpy]

could also throw in dr.strange's sanctum.

I think it's already on the list.

Heres my proposed layout for a Marvel_megacity.
[...] many buildings like Doc Stranges house do not fill a whole block. [...]

Unless the sactum is a different place...

[tommyboy]

could also throw in dr.strange's sanctum.

I think it's already on the list.

Heres my proposed layout for a Marvel_megacity.
[...] many buildings like Doc Stranges house do not fill a whole block. [...]

Unless the sactum is a different place...

There will definitely be a Sanctum Sanctorum..
My list is:
Baxter Building
Avengers mansion
Sanctum Sanctorum
Gem Theatre
Enpire state building
Empire state University
Met museum of art
Columbia U.

possibly
Daily Bugle
Xmansion (I know its not in Mangattan, but still...)
Latverian Embassy
Wakandan Embassy
SHIELD HQ and/or barbershop.

[tommyboy]

First placeholder; Dr.Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum. A poorly ripped from the hulk game version(not for release, I just needed a placeholder that looked right-ish) . And yes, it should be on the corner of Bleeker St., and I hope that it will be in due course, but I think it looks pretty cool nonetheless.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Now to make placeholders for some other landmarks and see about getting them in the map.

Oh, and despite currently being FFv3R only, the map WILL use ffv3r, and FF buildings, as well as new custom made ones. Do most people have the FF mappack/converted stuff installed, or will I need to bloat what is going to be a pretty big file anyway by including the necessary FF stuff too? What's the general view? My take is that people will and should already have the FF area_speciff1 stuff installed, but I could be convinced to try to include the necessary...

[herodad1]

this map sounds incredible!ive loaded the recent big ffx3_map pack.can i load your map with it also being loaded?

[tommyboy]

this map sounds incredible!ive loaded the recent big ffx3_map pack.can i load your map with it also being loaded?

I would think so. I dont plan to change any resources, only to add new ones if necessary. So it should be compatible with pretty much everything *crosses fingers*.

[GogglesPizanno]

this map sounds incredible!ive loaded the recent big ffx3_map pack.can i load your map with it also being loaded?

I would think so. I dont plan to change any resources, only to add new ones if necessary. So it should be compatible with pretty much everything *crosses fingers*.

If hes using the Renegade Created file structure I used in my map pack (ie. FF1 objects located in area_speciff1 as opposed to area_specific) then it should be no problem. If not, it should be pretty easy to do a hex fix like I did with the original maps. *crosses fingers as well*

[AfghanAnt]

That is simply amazing, Tommy.

[tommyboy]

Not necessarily..
Now this is mildly interesting...
I created a new Mod directory, called 'Maps'. Into this I copied just the Vanilla Ffv3r .Dat files, and the new maps and textures and objects and missions, but, and this is crucial, NO FF stuff at all.
These show the results:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Note that with the exception of one crowded corner, it basically works with just ffv3r buildings and objects. There are some blocks indicating missing objects (awnings and signs I think), and the awnings are too high in places, but otherwise its perfectly serviceable, without installing any FF buildings or objects.
I'll see if I can tweak the 'template' map that its all based on to eliminate the building clipping. If I can, we could be looking at a stand-alone map for those without the FF stuff installed.

[Renegade]

That's because some of the FFvTTR map assets are named the same as FF assets. That's why I had to come up with the area_speciff1 folder, way back when.

[GogglesPizanno]

Actually, if you made a specific version for FFvTR with no FF assets, and a specific Version for FF using FF content, it should be easy to convert the FF one for people who have the mappack installed. I say make the map you want to make... we can figure out ways to tweak it to do things it wasn't originally designed for.... this community is really good at getting square pegs into round holes.

[tommyboy]

Actually, if you made a specific version for FFvTR with no FF assets, and a specific Version for FF using FF content, it should be easy to convert the FF one for people who have the mappack installed. I say make the map you want to make... we can figure out ways to tweak it to do things it wasn't originally designed for.... this community is really good at getting square pegs into round holes.

Because of my tendency to want to make stuff as compatible as possible, I will do at least two versions (three if I can ever get it to work in FF, (I dont think my finally upgrading to SP2 is helping my problems opening the map in the FF editor));
one FFv3r 'only', (ie no FF stuff needed).
Then there should be a version for those with the FF mappacks installed.
To some extent the two will be interchangeable, but there will be glitches (see the shots above) if people use the 'wrong' version.
The FF one will continue the original project, using art assets from both.
The ffv3r one will have the template tweaked to align the buildings, remove the parts like awnings or vents that are named differently in ffv3r, but largely be the same map.
Both will have new custom buildings, terrain, textures, and should come with merge-able .dat files for the new building templates, and, if I can be bothered, new strings to describe the wonders and the splendours of Old new new old new york, ie "Baxter Building: Towering Home to the Fantastic Four" and so on (but better, I hope).
Such is my absurdly grandiose, over-reaching plan.

Oh, and I finally got the skysphere to work in the map too, except you can only see it from a few hundred yards away, then the games 'pop-up' makes it all black again :banghead:.. consequently, its distinctly underwhelming, and may end up on the cutting room floor...

[tommyboy]

are you sure you didn't include ff1 content? those are ff1 curbs present in that pic ;)

anyhow, ya i would love to check out this map but i don't have ff1 installed on my bootcamp and i don't like the art assets either as previously discussed - so i don't want to install them. i always thought the maps in ff1 were lacking even back then :-(

If there is still FF stuff in there, it must be in my data/art/library/area_specific/etc path (which is perfectly possible, I'm always fiddling around, copying stuff back and forth, and when helping Abenavides on transferring FF to FFv3r I could easily have deliriously copied files to area_specific in stead of area_speciff1.
But I definitely renamed area_speciff1 in the data path to make it inaccessible to  the game, and there isn't that folder in the Maps Mod dir.
*lightbulb comes on in head*
Aha! they ARE FF curbs because the original mp layout max file on which the curbs are drawn is from FF and I think I still have a bunch of ff textures in my data/art/library/area_specific/_textures directory.*checks* Yep, I do.
You may need to install the small 'terrain' map pack to have those textures, but I'll try to tweak the Max file to point to the ffv3r pavemants if i can.