tommyboy's Map Making Misadventures and Conundrums

[tommyboy]

@IPS, I can make an ffv3r version, but it will take a fair amount of time, and I'd like to get the hybrid ff/ffv3r version(s) finished first.
Unfortunately due to the vast size, it takes about an hour to change the template, generate the level, load the mission and level in the editor, save it then run the game to see how the changes look, so for now I'm going to not divide my attention, and try to finish one thing before starting another.
But I do intend to come back to this, because I like the way it looks as an all-ffv3r map.

[tommyboy]

Ooohooohooooh my statue of liberty!
Impaled on your hair, what do you do do do to me?
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

She's not perfect, she's a bit smaller than in real life, and in the wrong place, the texture needs work, and she needs a custom bounding box made, but other than all that, as per a suggestion by Herodad, New York now sports the Statue of Liberty!

[GogglesPizanno]

I have to wait till I get home to see it cause our web filter at work is blocking the domain hosting the images.... but I love the concept.

For bounding boxes, Ive found that if the mesh is low poly, you can just paste in a generic "box" shaped bounding box node using nifskope then remove the shape data and replace it with a copy of the model data itself... then you end up with a bounding box that perfectly matches the model (though for higher poly meshes it can add a bit of excess data).

[herodad1]

that lady liberty looks awsome.to me when you think of newyork you always think of her.

[detourne_me]

truly amazing Tommy.
please keep at it, but don't overwork yourself, kay?

[tommyboy]

Quick preview of Avengers Mansion:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Still needs gates, proper positioning, resizing slightly smaller and damaged version (for those master of evil invasions).

[tommyboy]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

See that?
Thats the marvel_megacity map in Freedom Force, as opposed to ffv3r.
Clearly there are some anomolies (ie half the buildings are missing..), which I think can be cured by loading the map in the Editor then re-loading the level.txt and letting the editor associate the correct templates for ff, as the ffv3r editor associates ffv3r templates. Either that or its because I still have the ffv3r template.txt files. I'm overwriting those with ff template.txt files now....no, that didn't seem to help..
Well, I'll see if the FF Editor will stay stable long enough to load the mission (stupid SP2!)
Anyway, the larger point is that the map WILL work in FF, so I'm pretty happy.

[BentonGrey]

The Statue of Liberty...........that's too awesome.

[style]

If you Incorperate Hells Kitchen, 4 Freedoms Plaza(or Baxter Building), The X-Mansion, Avengers Mansion, Tony Starks Tower(With The Sentry Watchtower on Top), The Daily Bugle, and Doctor Stranges' Sanctum Sanctorum this would be the BOMB!!! :P Well it is the bomb already but still. :P

[tommyboy]

I'm strongly disinclined to have either Stark Tower or anything Sentry related in this map. As far as I'm concerned the Avengers stopped being published after Chuck Austen's run, and there has been nothing since then.
One day Wanda will go into the shower, see the Vision in there, and realize everything was a dream.
The Sentry does not, and never has existed. Stark may have a tower of some sort, somewhere, but Avengers Mansion is the base of the Avengers.

Pretty much everything else you mention is already planned for inclusion, though.

[tommyboy]

Marvel_megacity for Freedom Force Lives:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Got some wrinkles to sort out, but it will be available for FF (not that many mod for FF anymore, but hey, it'll be there for them as do).

[BentonGrey]

I'm strongly disinclined to have either Stark Tower or anything Sentry related in this map. As far as I'm concerned the Avengers stopped being published after Chuck Austen's run, and there has been nothing since then.
One day Wanda will go into the shower, see the Vision in there, and realize everything was a dream.
The Sentry does not, and never has existed. Stark may have a tower of some sort, somewhere, but Avengers Mansion is the base of the Avengers.

I sympathize Tommy!  I totally agree.

This map is totally awesome!

[herodad1]

tommy,i totally agree with your opinion of the avengers lately.nothing about it feels right or appeals to me.i dont like sentry.superman rip off!the best avengers stories were when KURT BUSIEK and GEORGE PEREZ were drawing/writing the book.all the original members were on board.the new stuff may be here now but the classic live on.thats what people remember.thats what they eventually always come back too.

[style]

Hey I like the Sentry :(......But I do agree with you on this Fiasco going on with Civil War and the Skrulls is just plain UHH! :angry: After what Scarlet Witch did with everything cause the Avengers to disband the story arc seem to get really DUMB! But I can't wait to see your finished product!

[style]

Oh yeah this might be of some sort of help to you TB!
http://images.wizarduniverse.com/WizardUniverse/magazinepics/marvelmanhattan1.jpg

[tommyboy]

Oh yeah this might be of some sort of help to you TB!
http://images.wizarduniverse.com/WizardUniverse/magazinepics/marvelmanhattan1.jpg

Thanks, I found that one myself a week or so ago. It's a big help.

[tommyboy]

New York, New York, it's a wonderful town...
[spoiler]





[/spoiler]

As you can see I've been busy.
It's really starting to feel more like a 'proper' town as you run around it, with a better variety of architecture and vehicles.
And the scale, if not quite breathtaking, is exhilarating. You will never run out of waste bins to throw at enemies again.
These shots here are all from the Freedom Force version, the 'ff in ffv3r hybrid' version will probably look fairly similar.
Theres still a lot to do, I want a couple of run down areas, more skyscrapers in midtown, and I'm drawing a bit of a blank as to how to handle Times Square.
More when there's more.

[GogglesPizanno]

That's just amazing.

Given how many times I have started, stopped, been frustrated and beaten in my attempts to do these kinds of maps, its really impressive to see how far and fast you've taken this.

I think the only thing that I don't care for is the city skybox.
Its just a personal preference, but those flat walled sky boxes have always left me a little cold. Have you tried it with one of the spherical ones... they suffer from similar texturing issues, but somehow don't make the map feel so caged in and little bit more open.

[BentonGrey]

Wow Tommy!  Very awesome.  That bridge is especially cool.

[tommyboy]

That's just amazing.

Given how many times I have started, stopped, been frustrated and beaten in my attempts to do these kinds of maps, its really impressive to see how far and fast you've taken this.

I think the only thing that I don't care for is the city skybox.
Its just a personal preference, but those flat walled sky boxes have always left me a little cold. Have you tried it with one of the spherical ones... they suffer from similar texturing issues, but somehow don't make the map feel so caged in and little bit more open.

That is a spherical skybox. Or a skysphere, as I call 'em. If you look closely at the top two shots in the last post I made, you can see the sphere curve round behind the bridge (the bridge is in the top north-west part of the map)
The problems are, at that size you just see huge flat planes, and of course they suffer from 'pop up' at that scale, neither of which is attractive.
I've been wondering, do we think it possible to 'attach' a usual sized skysphere to wherever the camera is, and have it follow the camera  so that we are never far enough away to get popup? I seem to recall a 'tiggot' in FFX or maybe Kuertee's camera mod that had a similar property. If the sphere were given 'air' as a material and were completely 'game-neutral', you'd have a pretty backdrop/sky anywhere in the city.
Anybody think it's possible?

[Epimethee]

It does look possible; I'm a bit afraid of the lag between the camera's movement and the skysphere's, and of the performance hit, though. It's worth trying anyway. I've got a guest this week-end, so I can't check this now, however. Kuertee's code might be adapted for this task, and there's also a step by step movement script by Conduit (?) which might be simpler to use.

Alternatively, maybe some kind of layered alpha'ed spheres would provide most of the same, plus a bit of parallax?

[Lunarman]

What can I say!? Is it possible for a man to do more in week? :)

Verrrry nice, especially that statue of liberty

[tommyboy]

Guess the unfinished landmark:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

The winner gets.....ummm...more preview shots here in the near future...

[GogglesPizanno]

Nice!
So do all your custom buildings have the destruction versions as well?

[tommyboy]

Nice!
So do all your custom buildings have the destruction versions as well?

Not today, but when finished I aim for them to.

[tommyboy]

Just needs gargoyles and the _destruction version can be made:

[Cyber Burn]

   Damn, that is cool!

[style]

Quit it TB you're making me home sick! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Great stuff!

[tommyboy]

OK, I think I already know the answer to this, but will ask it because I've been wrong often enough before.
I've taken the art assets from the ffx3_Mappack, and used its objects.dat in the megamap, so I can use FF objects in the map.
When I play 'mp-ff1-citysmall' in the ffx3-mappack mod, all the buildings and objects are named correctly, and show up labelled in both the game and the editor.
If I copy that mission, it's terrain and level layout to my 'maps' mod, it also functions correctly, all FF buildings and objects appear as they should.
If I now copy the mission from 'mp-01-citysmall' to 'toms_mp-01-citysmall', the new version still works. But if I import the level layout 'level.txt' for that level, I start to lose the labelling of the buildings and some other bits and pieces. They still appear in game, but in the editor they are just 'generic' with nothing in the 'template' field, even though in the 'nif' field below it you can see the correct nif selected.
Which is to be expected, as this is an FF map in FFv3r, so various objects dont have templates, or are named differently. If I now edit the layout file 'level.txt' for 'toms_mp-01-citysmall', replacing 'area_specific' with 'area_speciff1', you might now expect the 'template' field to show correctly, and those objects to be labelled in game correctly. But it doesn't, and they aren't.
Heres a shot to illustrate:

On the left, the 'mp-01-citysmall' mission, note that every 'template' shows correctly. On the right, 'toms_mp-01-citysmall', note that the buildings and a few other bits have no 'template' defined. The only difference is that on the right I 'imported' the level layout file.
Now, I've copied the FF templates for everything into the correct folders in 'area_speciff1', and it remains the same.
I've even tried defining templates for all the buildings (ie building_02.nif etc) in the templates tab, to no avail.

So it seems to me that any object loaded as a result of an import of a level_layout file that is in area_speciff1 will never be recognised as a valid template in ffv3r, and that those maps like mp-01-citysmall that appear to function correctly probably had the buildings manually added to the map in the leveleditor, rather than as a result of a level_layout file.
Except that the 'vent' object, an 'area_speciff1' object shows correctly. So maybe it's just buildings.
If I were to copy the FF buildings from 'area_speciff1' to 'area_specific', and define templates for them all in the templates tab, and edit the templates.txt for them all, it would work better for some of them, but would mean ffv3r maps would be messed up by FF buildings replacing the FFV3r versions. So that's not an option.
I tried thinking laterally. I renamed all the FF buildings from 'building_01' to 'building_21', 'building_09' to 'building_29' and so on, to avoid any clashes with the ffv3r buildings. I edited the 'level.txt' to reflect these changes. I created templates in the 'templates' tab in the editor for 'building_21' to 'building_35', put 'template.txt' files in the appropriate directories, and tried defining the path as both 'area_specific' and 'area_speciff1', with copies of the buildings in both locations.
Nothing seems to work.
So, anyone got any idea what, if anything, I'm doing wrong here?
I've tried a 'search' but have yet to find anyone else even with the same problem, let alone an answer.
Any help would be appreciated.

[tommyboy]

Having read through some other posts, and seen mention of hex editing FF maps to work in FFv3R, I opened up the two maps shown above, and found that for the 'working' map there was an extra entry following that for each 'impobj', which in the case of buildings is a piece of text that says 'building'. This is the name of the 'template' used by all the buildings. Adding that bit of text to one of my buildings in my map caused that building to be 'seen' by the editor as a template, and to appear in the leveleditor too, and in the game itself.
I can achieve the same thing by manually setting the template for the building in the editor, mission tab, template field.
Both of which are fine for a little map like mp_citysmall, but a bit harder on the megamap with its 26,000 or so objects.
I'll see if I cannot do a 'find/replace' within the mission.dat...