Be Original!

[AfghanAnt]

I thought that would get some attention!

Anyway, as old skool skinner who has skinned numerous owned characters and finally making my way to skinning original exclusively (with the occasional dip), I'd like to know how much interest is there in original characters?

For me honestly, there are very few original characters that I feel I need to download and give a twirl in Rumble Room, is this how others feel?

Yes, I love taking Thor into FF and having him fight Wonder Woman but I find more joy in creating something new with a history and fxs to enhance the gaming experience for someone else but if I'm doing all the work for naught, I'd like keep that in mind.

So honest feedback is required as I feel it helps.

EDIT: Not just talking about my originals but originals characters in general.

[style]

Your Hive world originals are the bomb! Wake me when the mod comes out! ^_^

[billdamn22]

I deal mostly in skinning originals as well. I have downloaded the majority of mainstream skins out there, but I don't use them in game very often unless I want to test one of my originals against them. I create for myself first and the community second.
I personally have all of your original skins downloaded as well as most of the originals that are released by others. There are a lot of great characters that are created within this forum. To me, that is what this game was made for.

[AfghanAnt]

Your Hive world originals are the bomb! Wake me when the mod comes out! ^_^

Thanks but you and I both will be sleeping for a while on that one.

There are a lot of great characters that are created within this forum. To me, that is what this game was made for.

Yeah, I feel like that too.

[Volsung]

I'd like to know how much interest is there in original characters?

In my case, an incalculable interest.
Mainstream Characters are fun, but limited in terms of storytelling and capacities.
A boundless game like  FFVTTR deserves more that kind of richer original characters.

[Previsionary]

As far as modding goes, it's very hard to get an original mod off the ground if you don't have the resources or the community interest which is why you see a lack of them. There's tons of mainstream content, but how many skinners are out there creating their own images or someone else's? Not many. It's the main reason I stay away from my SuL idea...that and I burned out and I doubt anyone would care about them as not many of you actually read the fiction when I had it posted. Two way street and all. ^_^

It certainly doesn't help that the original content that was shown off in the past barely got a passing glance while the mainstream stuff was gushed over for weeks at a time.

[herodad1]

original characters expand the imagination and the adventure of the game.i love original characters.especially characters with the golden age feel.your hive characters have added a new dimension.not that i dont like beeing cap or spidey but the originals are just as fun.

[Blkcasanova247]

Well I tell ya that I've jumped onto the originals bandwagon with my skopes as of late. Truth be told I think that I'll do originals "EXLCUSIVELY" or if I do a main stream character it'd have to be one that hasn't been done or an alternate costume. Even the "mainstream" characters that I'm working on right now have reimagined concepts and costumes...like my "Titans". And personally I think that anything that we create at this point SHOULD be for mods...original or otherwise...at least that's how I feel.

[GogglesPizanno]

I really like the originals from a design standpoint. I think its really cool to see what skinners have come up with when not constrained to a predefined look or expectation. And i really like MODS that use original creations because again its all new in terms of powers and abilities and what not.

However in that middle ground between "Nice Looking Skin" and "Mod using original characters" is this grey area. I agree that while a short synopsis of character and they story especially in the context of a larger world is fun and interesting, my interest in extremely detailed backstory, fiction, etc... is limited, because that seems more personal to the creator of the character and is a lot to wade through for the casual person who may not have as detailed an interest. Also without hero files or some context to experience the characters in, they lose a lot of their impact and can get forgotten.

The fun of playing Freedom Force was that you got to experience these new characters through gameplay and their stories expanded gradually, so that it wasn't daunting to the player. I think an interesting way to do originals would be to include a hero file, but also maybe a simple "origin" EZScript mission (even just a basic "fight the badguys" mission), so people actually got to play the character. You could explain the character through cut scenes or dialogue which gives just enough history or info to be intriguing but not so much that its overkill.

[Symon]

With rare and spectacular exceptions, I download original meshes or meshes that can be used effectively with an Original Skin.
I usually only download skins that to me are 'best of breed' or Original. I'm not really interested in having 10 great Hulk skins, just one really really perfect one.

I realized a long time ago that this makes me a member of the minority.

[AfghanAnt]

Googles, I completely agree which is why Dr Mike has probably been the biggest influence on me as skinner and a creator for FF. He constructed a world and built these amazing people around it that I love. I just wish that level of inspiration was still at the forefront.

With rare and spectacular exceptions, I download original meshes or meshes that can be used effectively with an Original Skin.
I usually only download skins that to me are 'best of breed' or Original. I'm not really interested in having 10 great Hulk skins, just one really really perfect one.

I realized a long time ago that this makes me a member of the minority.

You are not alone.

[USAgent]

Goggles has it about right for me.  I too enjoy looking at original characters that the community has made, I envy thier creativity.  But as far as downloading them and playing them, thats just not for me (unless they are in a mod then its a different story).  I am only interested in playing mainstream established characters that I am familiar with to fulfill my childhood dreams of acting out battles with different characters and such.  Even though originals are plesent to look at I can't get into them as a character.

[the_ultimate_evil]

i have a load of characters sketch and designed, i just never really previewed them or uploaded them, honestly it's selfishness i've seen and received pm's about my av with people using him in ways i totally hadn't planned or agreed with. so i'd kinda hate to see what happens to my others

[Volsung]

FFVTTR is getting so old... And still I can't see any rivals in terms of offered creativity.
You don't get that kind of feel when you make a skin or a model for a fps...
Where's the worthy successor? I miss the golden age.

[Carravaggio]

Unfortunately the people posting in this thread are the die hard proponents of original characters, (myself included, its all I've ever made). It seems like its still the dozen or so of us beating the drum of original characters. We all know that originals are more rewarding and gratifying to make, and it seems that concept has gained some support in recent years, but I fear we will always be in the minority.
However being in the minority hasn't stopped us before, and I doubt it will stop us now.
I like the name of this thread though, I think I'll turn it into a new banner, I need to update my old one.

As for the fear of a character being misused or, even worse, misappropriated, I know a few skinners on this forum who share that view, that apprehension that their character could be stolen or twisted into something they aren't. Well I've been to devient art, and let me tell you, there are worse things to happen to your character than having them get trounced by the Avengers in the RR.
Share what you can make, even though it will get you very little recognition.
Most mainstream characters have been skinned and 'perfected'.
I won't ever need a new spidey villain skin after UE's contributions. I won't likely need another WW2 Ultimate cap after Renegade's mesh. I won't need another Hank Pym after Tommyboy's mesh.
I bet everyone here on this forum has made their own characters before. Let them live.
Now can be the time for the original characters.

[Podmark]

Well just looking at my skinning record it's pretty obvious where I fall. I'm mainstream guy. That's where my greatest skinning interests lie and where my download interests lie. It's very very rare I download someone's original characters.

My greatest urge to skin comes from when I finish reading a comic with characters that I love. I read the latest A:TI and think "I need to skin the Crusader", thats my biggest motivator. In a way skinning is like fanart for me, or more so action figures.


I love seeing originals though, I always check out AA's Hive guys and DJ and Carr new stuff etc, but it's really just to see neat ideas and designs. I don't have much interest in actually downloading them and playing them.

However mods change this. I'm perfectly happy playing an original mod, best example is the Strangers. And that's where the issue is, the originals don't have much interest to me without that kind of context.

As for my own originals, I have tons on paper. I have a whole world with an extensive storyline. Some glimpses of them have been seen in the forum events and I actually did skin a few a couple years back but never previewed or released them. Back then the reason was that I was overly protective, now the reason is that they're old and comparatively suck. If I were to move on to originals I prefer to do it through a mod, which is something I'd really like to do, but honestly its unlikely do to time constraits and various interests.

[Gremlin]

I was wondering if there were skinners who would be willing to do commissions? I have a boatload of original characters that I'd love to have see the light of day, many whom a mod would be too much effort to bother with. Some I have a basic idea of their costumes, but others I don't and I'd love some help designing them.

[BentonGrey]

Well, I imagine that everyone who has seen me post on these boards in the last year or so can imagine where I stand.  I'm fairly solidly in the mainstream side of things, although all of my mainstream efforts are devoted to my own original storylines and such.  There is an inherent investment in the characters that I already know and care about which is a hard thing for originals to overcome.  That being said, it is hardly impossible.  I always find myself moved by particularly brilliant concepts, or really spectacular skins and characters, especially those that I could see putting to my own uses.  Mods like The Strangers introduced me to original characters that I would STILL pay good money to read about monthly.  That lead to my own involvement in Liberty bay, a mod for which I dreamed up not a few characters, including my personal favorite, The Rogue.  So, in short, I am not uninterested in originals, but, just like with mainstream characters, not everything catches my eye.  Those that appeal most to me I make an effort to engage, like Car and DJ's Nazi team, which I can't wait to tangle with using the JSA!  I don't particularly appreciate the somewhat disparaging attitude some on the boards seem to have towards mainstream undertakings, however.  I feel like my work is no less original because I am using existing characters, as long as I am striving to create interesting stories and create something unique to me.  It is no less original to write an adventure for a favorite character than it was for the original Welsh poets who penned tales of Arthur and his knights.

[Previsionary]

For my own curiosity, since everyone keeps going to Strangers (and I have nothing against it, but I've yet to see anyone mention any other original mods yet [I'm ignoring that Aquaman lover]), how many of you went out and downloaded an original mod (outside of Mike's stuff) and gave it a try? Show of hands, did anyone try Lude's Guardian mod or my Heroes United (FR verse) and Heroes mod? How about wickerman's awesome Metal Storm mod or Herocity? Hrm, ok, how about Thug Stories or M25's mod (if you count the FF as originals since they aren't mainstream)? Erk...DOD mod by Lunar or even the Vampire mod by old time member, Capnwig? I just find this a bit interesting as most of those mods went largely unnoticed and they were 100% original, heh. There's not really a "lack" of original content, there was a "lack" of players/acknowledgment. This takes me back to my "two-way street" comment.

[Podmark]

Well I haven't played a mod in years, but off the top of my head I have played the Strangers and Hero City (least I think it was Hero City). I want to say there was another original mod I've played but I don't recall. So yeah haven't actually played many, but I don't think I've played any mainstream mods made after the Strangers either, mostly for time and computer problems.

[Carravaggio]

I don't particularly appreciate the somewhat disparaging attitude some on the boards seem to have towards mainstream undertakings, however.  I feel like my work is no less original because I am using existing characters, as long as I am striving to create interesting stories and create something unique to me.  It is no less original to write an adventure for a favorite character than it was for the original Welsh poets who penned tales of Arthur and his knights.

I think the subject of the topic that AA set out in the first post is original characters, not all original work for FF. A mod is an original work, even if it uses mainstream characters, and I'm sure would be as well received, if not more so (probably the latter) than one with all original characters. Certainly as far as I can tell mainstream mods are always better recieved than mods with all original characters.

And I think that there is the telling point. A modder pours his heart into a mod about his original characters for it to be overlooked/ignored in favour of a FF level swap featuring spider-man, galactus, hulk and wolverine as playable characters. That happened to me I'd be a bit down on mainstream stuff too. Thats the only time I have seen/felt a negative vibe towards mainstream endeavours, and thats in the instance of a mod, and limited to the few who have felt the 'mainstream burn'.

I can't say I've seen a negative attitude towards mainstream characters (skins/meshes) on this board. The mainstream meshes are what original makers draw their parts and tidbits from. I couldn't make any originals without the vast library of meshes and parts provided by our talented and generous meshers. And without skins to adorn them, well, they'd look like very nice soap carvings.

I admit I've been frustrated when I have seen a newbie skinner come onto the scene with an average looking mainstream skin, or one that does nothing new for the character or improve on what we already have access to, and is praised more than another skinner's original character released at the same time. I've seen it happen many times and I've seen it drive skinners away, talented individuals that could have helped the community grow. In those instances I've been frustrated by the mainstream bias, but thats like getting mad at Canadians for liking hockey or Australians for liking cricket. Its popular, its liked, its what the majority prefers, they are familiar with it, I can't blame people for getting excited about ANOTHER wolverine skin, but I sure can feel frustrated.
When i feel frustrated, i go make another skin, so everyone wins.  :lol:

Again this is just how I see it/what I have observed, I'm not saying anyone is wrong etc. etc.

[bat1987]

When I started playing FF couple of years ago, I was only downloading mainstream characters.

But later on I got more interested in originals, which I mostly download nowadays. I also enjoy making hero files for them based on author`s description of the character.

[WyldFyre]

As only a "lurker" for most of my time here, I must say that I think most people are here for the mainstream characters.  That being said, I have played several of the "original" mods (DOD, B. Brigade, Pulp Fiction, and Dr. Mike's mods et. al.). And I enjoy downloading the original characters and reading their backstories. I don't post many comments about them because I don't believe I can say much more than a "good job" to the creators. However, I do enjoy collecting them and playing the mods they are part of.
I guess as a "fanboy" for more years than I care to remember, any (and I mean ANY) comic characters for this wonderful game are appreciated whether mainstream or original. 
As a side note, I am constantly amazed and impressed at the creativity of the core members of this community. I know that it can only be the love of the game and the joy of your talents that allow you to maintain this interest.  I salute all of you. And I keep practicing in the hopes of regaining my lost talents of bygone years.  One day I hope to contribute more to this outstanding community.

<End of Rant>

[cmdrkoenig67]

I really haven't thought about it much....I guess I prefer mainstream and even the in-game characters, but I have played several  original character mods (Heroes United, Liberty Bay, Pulp Fiction, Guardians and few more) and I have enjoyed them.

As a rule, I haven't much interest in downloading original characters. skins, etc...I'm not sure why, though.

Dana

[tommyboy]

Clearly my creative drive is to make meshes, skins and mods of pre-existing characters, and for the most part, almost exclusively, that is what I download and play with by other people.
I've played pretty much every mod there has been, both 'original' and 'mainstream', and I can say that the reason the Strangers gets mentioned a lot is because it had huge technical and gameplay innovations, strong character design and characterization, and was well put together and constructed. Few mods, if any, can lay claim to all that. It was and is head and shoulders above what anyone else has achieved.
I do feel the distinction between mainstream and original is artificial. Everyday someone somewhere sees Superman or Spider-Man for the first time, and for them, they are 'new' and 'original'. To me a character doesn't have more or less merit because they were created five minutes or fifty years ago.
Arguing that it's somehow redundant to 'recreate' mainstream characters is like saying that it's pointless painting trees or landscapes or portraits, these have all been 'perfected', and 'done to death', so everyone must only strive to represent subject matter that has never been seen before, imaginary alien worlds. It is a flawed argument to me.
Firstly, I would strongly contest the notion that there is, was or ever will be a 'perfect' mesh skin or mod. Aside from the fact that this basically dismisses the efforts of every other artist, (and even other work by the artist who makes the 'perfect' one), it's wrong on other levels. Suppose you think my IM_MK21_tf mesh were the 'perfect' one of that character (I don't think that, I just use it as an example). Two days ago I discovered how to add bumpmapping to meshes, and adding that to the mesh improves it, so now it's better than the 'perfect' version it was three days ago. Technical innovations and personal artistic growth mean we never reach 'perfection'. Leaving aside subjective taste.
Secondly, if there can be 'perfect' renditions of characters, it sort of follows that there can be 'perfect' archetypes, that all 'dark knights' will be inferior to Batman, that all 'techno-warriors' will be pale imitations of Iron Man, that all 'storm gods' will derive from Thor. So if it's redundant to re-mesh/skin/mod existing characters, surely its equally redundant to re-create the ideas they represent in so-called 'new' 'original' characters. Since I disagree that meshing or skinning Batman again is pointless, I also disagree that creating a new Dark Avenger is pointless. Creative endeavour is creative endeavour, regardless of how 'original' it may be. The ten thousandth Wolverine Skin is equally worthy as a brand new character skin, one is not somehow 'worth' more than the other. It's worth creating new characters, but not a failure of some kind to enjoy the pre-existing ones, either.
Everything else is just personal preferences. I like all my mainstream meshes and skins and mods, but aspire to the technical expertise shown in the original skopes and skins those posting here make. I'll download and enjoy a Mod featuring new characters, just as I played through and enjoyed FF and FFv3R. And I'll enjoy mainstream Mods.

[Blkcasanova247]

You are spot-on Tommy! :thumbup: I definitely agree with that.

[TaskMasterX]

I echo USAgent's comments. Although I'd like to add that the main reason I don't play with originals is because I can't skin myself. When I think of an original, I like to be able to design the costume as well as their powers. Instead, I have to rely on other people's ideas when it comes to the costume, so it's not a true original for me.
What I'd really love to see is more development of the FF Machine tool that BeardedInLair started. It allows you to select pieces of skins to put on a mesh. So you can basically create your own costume. I'd love to see original skin pieces made for this tool to increase variability and even enhance the tool itself to work with any mesh.

Here's a link to the tool:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/ffmachine

[JKCarrier]

I like both. I download and play mainstream characters more often, due to the childhood nostalgia factor, but I love looking at clever and well-done originals. It helps if they include a hero file, so I can just drop them in the Rumble Room and watch 'em go. And if they're in a mod, so much the better.

As a skinner, I've done a handful of originals. It's a lot more work starting from scratch, obviously, and it can be hard to judge how "successful" they are, since you don't have an existing template to compare it to. But it's a good challenge, and I recommend all skinners try it at least once.

[Volsung]

I admit I've been frustrated when I have seen a newbie skinner come onto the scene with an average looking mainstream skin, or one that does nothing new for the character or improve on what we already have access to, and is praised more than another skinner's original character released at the same time.

That's a classic^^ During my works on Bid for Power. I made a Kanci from FLCL. Huge work... accessoires, unique animations, and he was able to transform in a Cannon! In real time! Guess what? He went unnoticed because shortly after was released a 10th Broly or a 27th Gogeta^^

Ok ok^^ that's just an exemple.Almost a troll, since Bid for power was based on Dragon ball, so the public was quite young and well... monomaniac^^

I just mean that mainstream characters will always get more success that original ones. Because they are preceded by their fame, they gigantic background and the passion they provoke.
I do not mean that doing mainstream characters, liking them or playing with them is pointless! Hell no.
That's natural to accomplish some work on a subject that inflame us. (Out of FFVTTR I kept trying to make a game based on one of my favorite cartoons for years).
It's not a matter of merit or talent.

It's risky for Modders/Writers  to make something original. They are freed from the narrative and gameplay constraints of the mainstream characters but they need enough assets to do all what they dream off and they'll have to fight a little more to make their mod accepted since it does not seduce the players at first sight as the mainstream does.
But I loved the strangers, and Liberty Bay enthused me so much that I joined them. As reformed enthused me later.
Once those characters got a behaviour, powers and adventures, they exist as strongly as spidey. ( a voice helps a lot ^^)

That's why original skinners should work in unison with with modders. Like our sex machine told before so innocently (You don't fool me magnificent bast'rd ^^)

Anyway, the main goal is to have fun.

[The Hitman]

I just mean that mainstream characters will always get more success that original ones. Because they are preceded by their fame, they gigantic background and the passion they provoke.

Absolutely. I totally agree. Originals, no matter how much thought and work and background info that could go into it, will usually be overshadowed by Mainstream.

I mean, take any player new, really, really new to FF. Sit him/her down and say, "OK, choose between playing as Batman or"... I dunno, for example's sake, "Afghan Ant." 90% of the time, they'll pick Batman, simply because he's better know.

Having said that, I personally play with originals. Granted, they're usually my own originals, but I have been known to download and play as others originals. In fact, now that I think about it, the only mainstream I personally use are obscure ones.