clothing creases

[Shazam]

Hello everyone,

May sound like a stupid question, but I wonder what techniques you guys use for creating clothing creases. I know some of you have access to graphic tablets and I do also, but I can't get to grips with them at all, favouring the old mouse. Since I do favour the mouse, I'm not able to apply pressure when smudging etc, so I was wondering if anyone can shed any light as to creating decent creases using a mouse. I'd really like to start adding more detail to my skins, instead of just recolouring.

Thanks in advance
Shazam

[AfghanAnt]

Even though I bought a tablet pc, I exclusively use a mouse for all my skinning and I never have a problem with smudging. Just use the smudge tool and set it to whatever strength you want.  I hope that helps.

[UnkoMan]

I usually end up using between 40-60%. Sometimes 70% in extreme cases. Sometimes 20% when I basically want to blur something in one direction.

[daglob]

You could also do a quickmask if it's in Photoshop, then use the blur tool to blur one edge, then lay the "shade" on a separate layer. Reduce the opacity if it's too dark, duplicate the layer to go darker (then change its opacity if you go too dark).

[laughing paradox]

It's not a stupid question because I need to learn the same thing. :)

I've tried it on my Duchess skin and I get the very basics of it, I just can't make it look GOOD. I tried studying skins, particularly skins created for JM_Talisman, and that's helped a little.

[Shazam]

Thanks for the replies,

I use photoshop elements 4 for skinning. I also have paintshop pro 9, but favour photoshop elements. It usually seems that no matter what percentage I set the smudge tool to, I don't get the required result. It either smudges too much or not enough. I did put creases in a Hyperion skin I made some years ago, but I forget how I made them look realistic, lol.

I must admit AA, that I have studied quite a few of yours and other peoples skins and tried to duplicate the results, but obviously have not been successful. Annoying to say the least because I haven't produced any skins lately as a result of this and have a few skins I'd like to get finished.

[Carravaggio]

Even though I bought a tablet pc, I exclusively use a mouse for all my skinning and I never have a problem with smudging. Just use the smudge tool and set it to whatever strength you want.  I hope that helps.

I wouldn't believe this except you have said it a number of times (and I have absolutely no reason not to believe you) but its still stuns me that you manage to get the results you do with a mouse.

Shazam, I would really put a vote in for having another wrestle with the tablet. While AA and IPS can get phenomenal results with a mouse, I just don't see how they do it (more power to them). Using a tablet lets you dictate the pressure/strength of the line/smudge by how hard you press. Put the smudge on a light setting and 'sketch' the creases and shapes you want, lightly dragging the pen over the tablet repeatedly to draw out the colours into folds etc.
An alternate way is the lay down some solid colours (a dark and a light, and a mid tone between them if you are feeling adventurous) and set the pen on a high strength and drag the colours through each other to pull the darks into the lights and vice versa. You can see an example of it here:



I painted the light colour over the dark, the 'pulled' it into creases and ridges using the smudge tool. Then you can see how they looked when on the mesh.

[Podmark]

I own a small tablet but have yet to try it with skinning. My cloth work is something I'm working on so it might be time to finally give it a try.

[daglob]

My brother-in-law draws for the government. About 9 years ago, my sister bought us both Wacom tablets for Christmas. I LOVED mine; he used his a little and put it back in the box.

A couple of years back, he got it out and tried it again. Now, he does everyting with it.

Maybe you just need to get the hang of it.

[AfghanAnt]

I wouldn't believe this except you have said it a number of times (and I have absolutely no reason not to believe you) but its still stuns me that you manage to get the results you do with a mouse.

I think it is because most active ad/marketing/graphic design people use the mouse instead of a wacom. PS is actually set up for mouse usage. The lead graphic designer at my job uses a mouse and I was taught by my uncle (an advertiser) how to use a mouse. I'm actually surprised at how well the tablet work comes out. I've only ever used my tablet for cg paintings never for work or on skins.

[House Quake]

An alternate way is the lay down some solid colours (a dark and a light, and a mid tone between them if you are feeling adventurous) and set the pen on a high strength and drag the colours through each other to pull the darks into the lights and vice versa. You can see an example of it here:

This is essentially my way of doing creases.

I start with the solid color and will lay a line of light and and sometimes dark shades.  I'll use a bit of trial and error to get the correct and opacity (I use PSP-X2)... and in a motion similar to how I would do hair... quick but controlled mouse drags.  Though I use PSP, I'm sure the technique is similar in Photoshop as has been described.

Oh and I got a tablet this year finally and will give it a go soon.

[the_ultimate_evil]

live by the wacom, die by the wacom.

[qazwsx]

If the clothing isn't very dull/matte you might also want to try bumpmapping the mesh.

[AfghanAnt]

If the clothing isn't very dull/matte you might also want to try bumpmapping the mesh.

What exactly is bumpmapping? You talk about it a lot and I still have no clue.

[Volsung]

I guess he's talking about Tommyboy's recent discovery.
'activating the 'bump' maps in FFVTTR nifs' in addition with the usual glow,gloss ... ones.

In my opinion skinners should not completely rely on that effect , the base texture is still capital. (On the other hand, I think the gloss map is quite underestimated

[AfghanAnt]

I guess he's talking about Tommyboy's recent discovery.
'activating the 'bump' maps in FFVTTR nifs' in addition with the usual glow,gloss ... ones.

In my opinion skinners should not completely rely on that effect , the base texture is still capital. (On the other hand, I think the gloss map is quite underestimated

Does it raise the mapping?

[qazwsx]

Oh no, skinning skill is still paramount. In fact, the mapping relies on your abilities to skin believable creases in order to create a believable effect. To save work in case you want to bump map it in the future, I suggest you skin the creases darker instead of lighter. When you want to bump map it, create a grayscale copy of your skin. The darker areas will render as a lower area than the lighter areas, so if you just keep in this in mind whilst skinning, you basically have the work cut out killing two birds. On top of that, the creases in the base texture will still contribute a huge part to the realism of the creases(unless you're on an advanced engine).

[daglob]

You can always move the the top of the stack of layers in your psd file, do select all, and copy merged, then paste. Or just do the same thing on the tga/dds file. After that use the adjustments to desaturate the layer to grayscale, then hide it or flatten and save with another name, whatever. You can do that anytime you want, not just when you might want to bump map it in the future. Thinking about it, after you had your grayscale copy, you might want to edit it a little to emphasize the light and dark areas, maybe even re-painting certain parts of it.

[Deaths Jester]

Becuase I came in late to this thread, I'll iterate also that I don't use a pad, just a mouse first.  As for how I've done it, I usually do like a bunch of "artist's" do and lay down my midtone and then using different opacity and brushes to slowly but surely build the highlights and dark sections over it, and finally grabbing a few other colours that naturally appear in the fabric (demin has a slight green and white hue to it, ect) and litely adding those in.  In fact, lately that's what I've been doing with everything..including faces.

[Shazam]

Interesting to see all the different suggestions, I was wondering, would any of you guys be prepared to make a very small and simple tutorial of your methods, with some visuals to aid with the understanding?

[Carravaggio]

Gimme a day or two and I'll try to knock something together, although I feel there are several skinners on the board who handle cloth/creases and clothing much better than I.

[Carravaggio]

aw...thanks dude  :wub: