Dark Reign *SPOILERS*

[Podmark]

Ok first Secret Invasion #8 spoilers:
-Thor kills(?) Wasp by sucking her into a vortex. The Skrulls had turned her into a bio-weapon.
-Skrulls are defeated.
-All the replaced heroes are recovered, including (oddly enough) Mockingbird.
-Thor tells off Iron Man.
-Luke Cage and Jessica Jones's kid has been taken.
-The President puts Norman Osborn in charge of the Initiative.
-Norman calls forth the Evil Illuminati, Doctor Doom, Namor, Loki, the Hood, and Emma Frost, and make their plans.

I should note that I did not read the issue, and these spoilers come from online accounts and a look through.
Also I didn't see the Dark Reign Previews in person. I've seen pages online though. They'll be up tomorrow and I'll update where necessary.

And now Dark Reign starts:

New Avengers
writer: Brian Bendis
artist: Billy Tan
roster: Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Bucky, Ronin, Spider-Woman, Ms Marvel.

Mighty Avengers
writer: Dan Slott
artist: Khoi Pham
roster: Wasp (Hank Pym), USAgent, Iron Man, Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Hercules, Jocasta, Stature, Vision.

Dark Avengers
writer: Brian Bendis
artist: Mike Deodato
roster: Iron Patriot, Marvel Boy, Ms Marvel (not Carol), Black suit Spider-Man (not Peter), Wolverine (Daken), Hawkeye (Clint?), Ares, Sentry

Thunderbolts
writer: Andy Diggle
artist: Roberto De La Torre
roster: Ant-Man (O'Grady), Black Widow (Belova), Ghost, + others

Other notes:
-Osborn will replace SHIELD with HAMMER. They will try to bring in Tony.

-Bob Agent of Hydra returns in Deadpool.

[AfghanAnt]

I dont know if I believe any of the line ups. Until I see some real previews I'm not going to comment on what the teams are.

[Podmark]

I dont know if I believe any of the line ups. Until I see some real previews I'm not going to comment on what the teams are.

Oh I can post images too. There's just really bad quality. Better ones should be online tomorrow. But based off what I've seen so far those are the teams. Who knows what will be in the actual issues.

New Avengers:
http://i38.tinypic.com/2yyv887.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/30i7wo4.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/Dkernx4/4-1.jpg

Mighty Avengers:
http://i38.tinypic.com/ehhjz7.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/Dkernx4/3-1.jpg

Dark Avengers:
http://i37.tinypic.com/30c0ewj.jpg

Initiative:
http://i34.tinypic.com/2uz8qye.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/2ci9utl.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/2h379m1.jpg

Thunderbolts:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/BubbaKanoosh/1-1.jpg

Deadpool:
http://i37.tinypic.com/2rzrvp5.jpg

[murs47]

-Bob Agent of Hydra returns in Deadpool.

:wub:

[Podmark]

-Bob Agent of Hydra returns in Deadpool.

:wub:

I made sure to put that down just for you Murs.

[murs47]

-Bob Agent of Hydra returns in Deadpool.

:wub:

I made sure to put that down just for you Murs.

If there was a "tears of joy" emoticon I would have used that instead.

Diggle on Thunderbolts is something I'm looking forward to as well. Glad to see Marvel gave him O'Grady.

[Silver Shocker]

I think it's great that Bob (really, ANYONE from a previous Pool run, preferably the runs I liked the most, i.e. Simone and C&D) is going to be in the book, but it's still going to be Way right (I assume so, since I haven't heard anything about anyone else writing the book). While I never read the new series, I've followed what people are saying about it (and looked at previews) and it doesn't seem like I'd like it. So just because Bob of Hydra is in the book doesn't mean he'll be written well.

But I digress, getting back to the topic at hand:

Hank as Wasp looks kinda odd to me, but also it reminds me of the Ultimate Yellowjacket in Ultimatum. I'm curious as to who the other Thunderbolts characters are; The Ghost is a pretty obscure villain; if not for a old Spider-Man comic I read years ago that featured him I'd never have heard of him. (If I recall he wore a suit that allowed him to phase through objects) It's kinda neat that the new Ant-Man is in Thunderbolts; that's a book I might be willing to give a try. Warren Ellis' book never really grabbed me, but maybe this new creative team would be more up my alley.

Is Marvel Boy supposed to Noh-Varr? I wonder who or what Iron Patriot is. My mind naturally goes to Iron Lad and Patriot of the Young Avengers, but naturally that's mostly wishful thinking as I was a huge fan of that series/team of characters.

Bendis is still on New Avengers, and it's still Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider-Man, ect, that's really my cup of tea, but who the new characters (Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Ms Marvel) are interest me to a degree. Could it be the return of Ben Reily? ;)

Mighty Avengers I'm looking forward to. The art looks a little funky (wasn't a Koi Pham fan when he did fill ins on X-Factor) but I might grow to like the art in time.

Marvel is really pushing Norman Osborn out of the Spider-Man corner of the Marvel U and into the center of it. I suppose that's no different that Dr. Doom or the Skrulls, but I don't think the Green Goblin was ever used in non-Spidey stories this way before.

[thanoson]

Anybody notice that that pic of Thor has him in the old suit?

[Podmark]

but it's still going to be Way right (I assume so, since I haven't heard anything about anyone else writing the book)

Yeah he's still writing.

The Ghost is a pretty obscure villain

I think he also appeared kinda in Avengers the Initiative. Gauntlet claimed Ghost had attacked him, but it was really Slapstick.

Is Marvel Boy supposed to Noh-Varr? I wonder who or what Iron Patriot is. My mind naturally goes to Iron Lad and Patriot of the Young Avengers, but naturally that's mostly wishful thinking as I was a huge fan of that series/team of characters.

Bendis is still on New Avengers, and it's still Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider-Man, ect, that's really my cup of tea, but who the new characters (Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Ms Marvel) are interest me to a degree. Could it be the return of Ben Reily? ;)

Yeah Marvel Boy is Noh Varr.
Rumour is Iron Patriot will be Norman Osborn.
The other Dark Avengers are rumoured to be Thunderbolts in disguise but thats rumour.

Anybody notice that that pic of Thor has him in the old suit?

That's Clor, Thor's clone from Civil War.

[murs47]

I see we're ignoring Secret Warriors. :(
Let us remedy that. ^_^

This is a excerpt from Hickman's series outline:

Secret Invasion is over.

One man knows that in this new world - this darker now - the ideals he once served are broken relics of a greater generation... they are no more.

He knows his government can no longer be trusted, nor can any country or corporation. And no longer are heroes or vigilanters willing to do what is necessary - to do what it takes to make things right.

He knows this.

So he is moving all his pieces into place. He is assembling the players, and he is fully aware of the stakes... He knows what it will cost and he alone is willing to pay it.

Nick Fury has returned... and he has a plan.

[Zippo]

Stature and Vision on Mighty Avengers  :angry: ?
Why am I further denied a new run of Young Avengers? 

[Talavar]

Those line-ups are just weird - and what's with Dark Avengers being made up of also-ran versions of famous characters?

[Zippo]

I just realized... There's going to be some sort of terrible love triangle with Scarlett Witch, Stature, and Vision, isn't there?

[Previsionary]

eeew...vision is a teenager and is based on Ironlad! Though, I hope they explain why Wanda would just end up on the Avengers again. She hasn't been touched on since Beast found her in that village and even "Young Avengers present" only had her in a panel or two.

[AfghanAnt]

I thought Vision 2.0 was destroyed during SI and I'm really hoping Kate isn't dead only maimed (which give her a chance of coming back).

[Podmark]

I see we're ignoring Secret Warriors. :(

Wasn't ignoring it. Just hadn't seen anything from the Dark Reign Previews online yet. I'll correct that soon.  :cool:

Stature and Vision on Mighty Avengers  :angry: ?
Why am I further denied a new run of Young Avengers? 

I'm actually very happy that Vision and Stature are on Mighty Avengers. Simply because they are two characters I like and it's a book I wanted to read. If there was a regular Young Avengers book I'd want them there, but that's not going to happen for a while so I like them being in Mighty for the interim.

Alan Heinberg and Jim Cheung are doing a project that will involve Kang and the Young Avengers, along with the greater Marvel U sometime in the future. I'm hoping this year. I'm hoping once that's done and Heinberg has told his story we'll get a Young Avengers ongoing.

I just realized... There's going to be some sort of terrible love triangle with Scarlett Witch, Stature, and Vision, isn't there?

I sure it will be touched on to some extent.

eeew...vision is a teenager and is based on Ironlad! Though, I hope they explain why Wanda would just end up on the Avengers again. She hasn't been touched on since Beast found her in that village and even "Young Avengers present" only had her in a panel or two.

I hope so too. The first arc is supposed to have the team going up against a former Avenger so it could be her.

I thought Vision 2.0 was destroyed during SI and I'm really hoping Kate isn't dead only maimed (which give her a chance of coming back).

He survived. He appeared somewhere later, maybe in Avengers: The Initiative, I think he was at Fury's base. I'm sure Kate is fine. I don't think they would do something drastic to the Young Avengers in a mini like that unless it was leading directly into something.



Full revealed solicits:
http://comics.ign.com/articles/935/935702p1.html

I'll update some details above when I get a chance.

[thanoson]

[spoiler]Ok, at the end of SI 8, a bunch of heroes that were supposed to be cloned emerged from the skrull ship. Everybody was who they were replaced by. What happened to the Captain America and Captain Mar-Vell? SHouldn't they also be in the ship?[/spoiler]

[Podmark]

[spoiler]Ok, at the end of SI 8, a bunch of heroes that were supposed to be cloned emerged from the skrull ship. Everybody was who they were replaced by. What happened to the Captain America and Captain Mar-Vell? SHouldn't they also be in the ship?[/spoiler]

It was the real heroes that were replaced. But Captain America and Captain Mar-Vell weren't replaced. Both were deceased.

My understanding is that the Mar Vell that appeared in Civil War was always a Skrull and that his story about a time vortex was bubkiss. Of course he didn't know he was a Skrull because of his sleeper programming.

The Cap that appeared at the beginning of Secret Invasion in the Savage Land was just a skrull like all the rest of them. A distraction ploy by the Skrulls.

[Previsionary]

Yes, Mar-Vell was ALWAYS a skrull. That all played out in his miniseries and it P'd off a lot of fans. He also found out in the end of that series that he was a skrull, iirc, and I think it was referenced in at least two other issues...one being Thunderbolts. Captain America has too many of him running around right now including an old version of him (Invaders). Let's leave skrull Cap alone...please. Bucky is the only true Captain America right now and he will be for the foreseeable future until his time is up. There's no real lack of Steve though...There's been a ton of new mini series involving him coming out every other month.

[NeoDarke]

Bendis is still on New Avengers, and it's still Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider-Man, ect, that's really my cup of tea, but who the new characters (Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Ms Marvel) are interest me to a degree. Could it be the return of Ben Reily? ;)

Ben? Pweez?

[thanoson]

So then, how did they get their memories and training/powers?

[crimsonquill]

So then, how did they get their memories and training/powers?

The magicial/alientech process that created the sleeper skrulls just required a memory scan and a blood sample.. so I'm sure they had Steve's and Mar Vell's on file in their labs from previous encounters with them. Memories were not really a problem in their case since they could just make up something for their time away from Earth (i.e. Mar Vell being in a time vortex and Steve leading the other "heroes" on a breakout from a Skrull prison after waking up).

- CQ

[Zippo]

I've been thinking about it, and I have really mixed feelings about this Dark Reign business.

First of all, I just can't wrap my head around why they would put Osborne in charge. The higher powers don't seem to have learned anything at all. Tony being replaced by Osborn, SHIELD with HAMMER, Starktech with Oscorp tech. The problem wasn't Tony, it was that one man had too much power, SHEILD as an organization wasn't answerable to enough people, and EVERYTHING was Starktech and therefore (apparently) vulnerable to a single sort of virus. Everything is being replaced with the same, just with different names, and it's supposed to be all better? That's not even mentioning the fact that Osborne is an "ex" villain and total nutcase. It just blows my mind how insanely contrived that is.

On the other hand, I am ridiculously intrigued by the whole concept. 

And why is Emma evil now??????

[murs47]

Hefty 5 page interview of Bendis at IGN. Some good info there: http://comics.ign.com/articles/936/936219p1.html

Norman begins his hostile(?) take-over in Thunderbolts #126 which came out last week. I'd recommend it to those that dropped the title after Ellis left or to those intrigued by Norman's rise to power.

[GhostMachine]

This stuff with Norman and HAMMER sounds ugh.

They missed the perfect opportunity to fix one of the biggest mistakes in Marvel history by not having Norman turn out to be a Skrull.

[Podmark]

Norman in charge is at least a little contrived but I like it. It's a nice way to take a character a move him beyond what he ever was before that still fits fairly well in his original concept.

The idea behind Dark Reign has some promise but I really need to see how it plays out. I thought the Initiative worked very well, but I'm not sure how most books will be able to use this effectively or where things will go.

I'd have been very upset if Norman had been a skrull. I'm not sure I liked that they resurrected him back during the 90s but they've done some stories I liked since then and I think there's plenty of use for him.

[detourne_me]

my predictions
[spoiler]Dark Avengers....  Could be Thunderbolts in disguise again (like the original team concept) Iron Patriot could be Norman (or even eke stane), Ms Marvel is moonstone, black suit spider-man could possible be venom, hawkeye is bullseye. Daken and Noh Varr are new recruits and could easily be lead to the dark side, while Ares has spent the better part of his marvel career being a villain, sentry is just there so they can keep his power in check.

Norman will use this team to discredit the other avengers even further, meanwhile the newer (more legit) faces on the Thunderbolts will help out the PR.

The republican Avengers won't be hunting down the Obamavengers anymore because that's what the dark avengers will do. They will probably be sidetracked into trying to hunt down the Hood and his gang for a few reasons a)norman's cleaning up the villain competition and b)to save face tony wants to start taking down bad guys and not his friends. maybe they could look better in the public eye.   oh, and this series will be the angsty/emo series as hank and tony will deal with their losses while we get a 3-way robot/giant/mutie love triangle.

So what will the On-the-run avengers do? I think they will either be fighting with the dark avengers, or fguring out the evil illuminati mess.
But, then I think secret avengers will mostly deal with HAMMER and the secret illuminati,  there will probly be a lot of cross pollination between New and Secret.

then next summer will be another BIG EVENT that will restore the status quo of the avengers and shield, and it should bring us around to just before avengers disassembled, but with a few changes, a core Avengers title with the big 3 (IM, Cap, Thor), a title with a mix of young avengers and b-list classic avengers, and (just like the x-force reboot) a pro-active Thunderbolts team that operates with a little black-ops. Finally there would probably be another title, headed by Luke, Jessica, Clint and maybe mokingbird.  i think it would be a mix of Heroes for Hire and Current X-Factor. 

And What the Heck is Emma doing with the evil illuminati? She's been developed so well by writers much more capable than bendis to be retconned.[/spoiler]

[Podmark]

The Mighty Avengers won't be based in America.

I'm hoping there's a good reason Emma's in the Cabal. Like she's protecting mutants from them or something. Making her a villain again just like that would be terrible.

[murs47]

The Mighty Avengers won't be based in America.

I'm hoping there's a good reason Emma's in the Cabal. Like she's protecting mutants from them or something. Making her a villain again just like that would be terrible.

If you look at how the Marvel landscape is set-up now, all those players on the last page of SI#8 hold the majority of power in the world now. I think she's doing it in the interest of mutant kind like Pod said, not because she's secretly still evil.

[GhostMachine]

I have one thing I'd like to see happen:

[spoiler]Apparently She-Hulk is being cancelled (no skin off my nose; in a perfect world, She-Hulk would still be written and drawn by John Byrne), so how about a team with Hawkeye (Clint, of course), Mockingbird and She-Hulk on it? Can you imagine the comedy, considering how Clint and Jen used to get along?[/spoiler]

And I think it would be cool if they form a renegade version of SHIELD. Nick Fury has shown to be resourceful plus I'm sure he's probably stockpiled equipment and files in case something happened. They could use an old SHIELD base thought to be abandoned or destroyed, with Nick having changed the security codes and beefed up the defenses, and have the team made up of former SHIELD members who are loyal to Fury and don't believe in what the government is doing and some reprogrammed LMDs (with precautions taken so no double agent LMDs or Deltites are around), with Black Widow, The Falcon, Bucky America and Sharon Carter being allied with them (if not outright members).