Blender NIF Scripts & Freedom Force Keyframes

[life_matrix]

I read that, despite how different they seem, Morrowind and Freedom Force use the same graphics engine! :blink:

Morrowind/NifSkope Tutorial 1: Nif No Glow

This technique came about from trying to use the techniques pioneered by (amongst others) Axel and Bjam, in 'Freedomforce' by Irrational games. Although not very similar to Morrowind in play, it uses the same graphics engine, Nif 4.0.0.2.

Anyway, Morrowind has got me so interested in mods that I finally decided to learn how to make mods and meshes. It also got me to learn how to use Blender and how to import/export NIFs. Undoubtedly, this will also help in any :ff: or :ffvstr: modding I might take up, too.

[life_matrix]

why are you even doing all this man? what is your overall objective?! before you waste time researching how to destroy the planet or create the ultimate doomsday weapon, take a step back and think about your real goals.

OK... :unsure: I assume you are not referring to why I started this thread (for which I had several different reasons) but to why I would go to the effort of learning to use Blender and NIF import/export.

blender etc can only be used to make object meshes.

Respectfully, I disagree. Blender can be used for all kinds of purposes. It can be used not just for creating/modifying meshes for games, but also for photorealistic rendering and art, for creating animation, for traditional CAD/CAM, drafting, even creating things like sigs and advertisements. The latest Blender even has a built-in, cutting-edge game engine and with the Python scripting the possibilities are nearly endless. There's even a "network game template" called 'BZoo' that can add Multiplayer support to the Blender Game Engine without even the need for programming skills:

Network Gaming with Blender

Finally, Blender is a free program that can also be used to make conversions for other modelling programs... such as 3ds Max. Blender supports a huge, enormous assortment of formats and with scripts it supports even more. Ever wondered how to convert a freely available Google Sketchup (.skp) model into something that 3ds Max could import... without having to purchase and install the Pro version of Sketchup? It's possible by first converting to a Google Map Model (Kmz/Kml), importing that into Blender, then saving in a different format.

do you really want to invest all this time to create objects? i suspect you want to create characters.

Nope, not really. My primary reason for learning to model in blender is to create and modify objects for use in Morrowind! Things like new swords, magic items, furniture, etc. Perhaps I might eventually try to model some new creatures for Morrowind, but not at first. (And, yes, I realize that things like bones and keyframe could be difficult to learn or even implement.) And sometime later down the road I might also try to use it to modify or create stuff for Freedom Force. But I've only recently discovered Morrowind and right now I'm into modding for Morrowind.

they can be made in any application but they must still be setup and rigged and animated in Max so you cannot effectively create characters using anything other than max.

Interesting... I was not aware of that. Good to know. In any case, it wouldn't have affected my decision. Unless I bid on eBay for a really outdated version, I could never afford 3ds Max. And even so, I would think it should still be possible to use Blender make some alterations on a .NIF while still being able to use existing keyframes.

But are you 100% certain? Nothing but 3ds Max will do? I do know that Blender has full support of animation and rigging. So if there is a problem in creating a new .NIF with animation and rigging, the problem would have to be somewhere in the conversion process. But both Blender and the various NifTools projects are all under active development, with new features and improvements being added and new releases coming out regularly. So I would be surprised if such a glaring fault still exists.

The NifTools wiki has an Overview page for Blender Nif Scripts with a chart that compares "current" features (page last updated 10 June 2008) with those for the 3ds Max and Maya plugins. According to that, it already has support for Animation, in addition to Skin Deform, Oblivion Collion, Base, Glow, EnvMap, Bump, Gloss, Dark, and Detail maps.

According to the "Blender/Quick Start" page, the only limitation is "The script does not import particle effects, lights, and cameras." Granted, there are three known issues and workarounds and, among others, it states:

The import of animation is quite slow, and it does not import or merge standalone animation tracks. These have to be merged in a geometry with skinning info beforehand.

And, btw, the latest version of Blender Nif Scripts even has support for Fallout 3, which uses a similar engine to Oblivion.

[ow_tiobe_sb]

and yes i'm 100% certain ... max is to date the only app you can properly rig a character mesh for FF. i assume there are other 3d apps that can do character animation but they must export to FF nif and support the character rigging and setup structure (not even sure what to call that) but the files are specific. eventually nifskope can extract animations so i guess in theory it could write them also if it has the tools to do the animation... but so far it's not possible.

Since ips's certainty rate has reached capacity, it may seem unnecessary for me to concur that 3ds max is the only programme, to date, that can properly rig a model for animation and exportation to Freedom Force or Freedom Force vs. The 3rd Reich.  There was a time when the NIFTools project was working on plug-ins for Maya, but I'm not sure that anyone is developing those plug-ins for animation at this time (I don't own or use Maya, so I haven't paid that project's progress any mind.).

Good luck to you in your various 3-D endeavours, life_matrix. :)

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[GogglesPizanno]

Now you guys know much more than I... so i will defer to you, but I THOUGHT it was possible to do animated characters and objects out of blender for FF, but the caveat was that they had to be done using regular bones. So you could do things like objects that had moving pieces, cutscenes etc... and even characters with the limitation that it would not have near the quality due to the lack of rigging...

But something like an animated tree that bent and swayed or a say a crab that had a simple single walk cycle with legs that could be done with simple bones -- I thought was doable.

[life_matrix]

and yes i'm 100% certain ... max is to date the only app you can properly rig a character mesh for FF.

...it may seem unnecessary for me to concur that 3ds max is the only programme, to date, that can properly rig a model for animation and exportation to Freedom Force or Freedom Force vs. The 3rd Reich.

Thanks for that. It's good to get feedback from others who are more knowledgable - even if it's not the news one wants to hear...

Just to see for myself, I decided to try to import a few Freedom Force character meshes into Blender, with keyframes. But in every case it halted part way through converting the keyframes and spat out error messages. (I thought it might handle the simple keyframes of "Drone_tiny", but it couldn't.) First, this popped up:

"ERROR
non-Oblivion .kf import not supported"

Almost immediately, another window popped up:

"Error
Python script error: check console"

After checking the console, I found this (for importing the female_base NIF and keyframes):

[spoiler]Blender NIF Scripts 2.3.13 (running on Blender 248, PyFFI 1.1.0)
f:\Irrational Games\Freedom Force\Data\Art\custom_characters\female_base\charact
er.NIF
f:\Irrational Games\Freedom Force\Data\Art\custom_characters\female_base\keyfram
es.kf
merging kf tree into nif tree
NifImportError: non-Oblivion .kf import not supported
nif import finished in 50.35 seconds
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "F:\Blender\.blender\scripts\bpymodules\nif_common.py", line 797, in guiB
uttonEvent
    self.guiExit()
  File "F:\Blender\.blender\scripts\bpymodules\nif_common.py", line 1015, in gui
Exit
    self.callback(**self.config)
  File "F:\Blender\.blender\scripts\nif_import.py", line 3197, in config_callbac
k
    NifImport(**config)
  File "F:\Blender\.blender\scripts\nif_import.py", line 252, in __init__
    self.importKfRoot(kf_root, root)
  File "F:\Blender\.blender\scripts\nif_import.py", line 3109, in importKfRoot
    raise NifImportError("non-Oblivion .kf import not supported")
__main__.NifImportError: non-Oblivion .kf import not supported[/spoiler]

It's too bad, really. I think more fans would try to create their own character meshes and rig their own with animation if doing so did not necessarily require 3ds Max.

...but I THOUGHT it was possible to do animated characters and objects out of blender for FF, but the caveat was that they had to be done using regular bones. So you could do things like objects that had moving pieces, cutscenes etc... and even characters with the limitation that it would not have near the quality due to the lack of rigging...

Like you, I would have to defer judgement to ips and ow_tiobe_sb as they're knowledgable on this and I'm not. But part of me wonders if it might be possible to create a single, basic animation on an object - such as a swaying lamp post or tree? (Unlike character keyframes, which contain numerous different animations.)

But perhaps there's something about the way Freedom Force implements animation that the Blender Nif Scripts just does not like? For one thing, the project admits that it's still buggy on certain aspects. The NifTools Wiki Blender/Quick Start guide mentions this in the "Known Issues and Workarounds" section of the Export function:

* Export of directly animated meshes is buggy unless you parent without parent inverse (CTRL-SHIFT-P). Workaround: don't animate meshes directly; instead, parent meshes to the armature and animate the bones.
* Parenting meshes to bones is buggy unless the bind pose coincides with the current frame of animation. There's not much that can be done about it at this point, as this is due to a limitation in the Blender Python API.

But does Freedom Force keyframes even support the parenting of meshes to the armature and animating the bones? In any case, the fact that it gave me an "non-Oblivion .kf import not supported" error message does not bode well for having Blender NIF Scripts work with FF animation...

[ow_tiobe_sb]

You might be correct Goggles, if this tutorial is trustworthy.  It does look rather complicated, but it appears it could be done.  Since it appears that the Blender NIF exporters still lack the capability to export lights, one would be limited as to the effects (i.e., glow and reflection maps) one could attach to one's NIFs, but doing some post-export work in NIFSkope could remedy that problem.

I'm still no fan of Blender's GUI, but I suppose that is due to the fact that I cut my teeth on 3d max.  If it works for you and life_matrix, Goggles, more power to you! :)

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Fop o' th' Morning

[GogglesPizanno]

Im just a walking repository of what ifs... Think you cans... and should be able to's....

Actually doing anything with the knowledge??
:D