New email from Lunarpages....
QuoteThank you for your compliance in regards to this issue, we will note that this is resolved and will advise if any further complaints are registered. Please don't hesitate to get in touch, should you require further assistance. Kind Regards, Meilena Hauslendale Customer Service Representative Support and Assistance: Help Desk
Basically, the immediate danger of getting shut down is over. :thumbup:
Now I'm going to go back to bed and make up for that fitfull night sleep I had. I will try to get a discussion started with the Titans Mods and admin about what to do about the FF Resource forum before I go though.
Yay!
Thanks for the update GG, and thanks to you and the rest of the mods' for your efforts to dispel the threat of closure.
Yeah, thanks GG! I know that this has been especially stressful for you, so thanks for soldiering on and not just throwing in the towel!
Good to hear the immediate threat with the ISP is over.
I hope you can work out a policy re the FF stuff that protects you but lets us still show some stuff here, even if the copyrighted stuff has to go.
Was there really ever any doubt that GG and the titans would come through? hahaha! :thumbup:
I don't know if my 2cents counts though.
All yous guys is awesome! I love this community!
Sounds like Lunarpages are being reasonable here, which is very nice to see. :)
Great job GG et al :thumbup:
Well, according to their own stated policy, the real issue was just IPS's stuff, so I don't see why the rest of the stuff can't go back up.
I can see why they might want to wait a while before doing so, however. At least our community is safe.
i know i never said a word to you :unsure:.
thank you GG :thumbup:
nice to wake up to good news this awful raining mornining :)
Nice going GG and the other Admins/mods /Titans that had input in dealing with out Hosts. I victory for us indeed
Awesome!
i still don't know what to think
Score one for the Good Guys. This is great news, I was rather afraid of losing this place.
Wow I just discovered what's been going on. This has always been one of the best communities on the web. Even though I sometimes go months before checking back I've been a member for years and I always felt like everyone was a friend. I feel as though I have been stabbed in the back. I truly hope FR can bounce back from this tragic event.
Glad to hear that. :)
I was very hopeful of the situation and I'm glad that things came through fine.
I am really glad about the outpouring of support that this community has shown, showing that there are many of us who really enjoy being involved, in one way or another.
Just for those who have been forswearing the FU forums because of IPS's supposed conspiracy (which he isn't helping in his own posts, grah) I do have a quote from IPS that might put to rest the possibility of the dreaded Marvel involvement.
Quoteand i'm truly sorry because when i browsed FR yesterday i saw a lot of hurt and confused people - it was exactly how i felt when i got banned, so it's not like i don't know what you're all feeling. i do unfortunately. but, i saw my "friends" and the people i don't care for much really hurt and confused... and i really didn't consider how much the people caught in the middle would be affected, as hard as it is to believe. i'm sorry to see my "friends" being blamed and lumped into what i did.
It's not really a great concession, as it's amidst some other stuff (which I won't go into, in the hopes that we can put this thing to rest.) which isn't quite as repentant but at the very least it does look like he's willing to just argue and not do anything that would hurt the entire community.
Just when i thought the Freedom Force forums were getting active again, with more and more members contributing again this had to happen.
Well, its glad to know that this site is safe from being shut down. I really enjoy visiting this place every so often.
I don't know much about copyright laws, but for me seeing those Marvel/DC characters in the game only reawakened my love for comics. After almost 20 years away from comics, i just recently bought one this month. So business wise, i think it is advantageous for these big comic companies.
Nevertheless, if we are making any copyright infringements, I don't see why the Freedom Force forums have to suffer for this. Maybe you guys can put up rules like the freedomforcefans website. http://www.freedomfans.com/modguidelines.html (http://www.freedomfans.com/modguidelines.html) The Freedom Force games was designed intentionally to encourage creative original work similar to the game City of Heroes. If City of Heroes isn't affected by this copyright scare, why should Freedom Force be any different? Thinking about it more, if there were more original work or modding done for Freedom Force this could be very beneficial. Websites about freedom force need not hide anymore. Thus providing more exposure/promotion for the game. ( a little wishful thinking in my part, i know :P)
Well, those are just my thoughts and opinions about the matter. Hope everything works out in the end.
I'm just finding out about all of this tonight...really hoping we can all move past this as a community...the way it was meant to be.
This is good news! Another step in moving past all this insanity. Thankfully, it feels as if the community is mostly growing stronger in the midst of everything.
Many thanks to the Titans, Mods and Admins for working so hard to keep this from destroying us. I think I speak for everyone when I say your efforts are thoroughly appreciated! :wub:
Thank you for the update, GG...
Dana
Quote from: Jakew on March 08, 2009, 12:18:28 AM
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 07, 2009, 10:36:40 PM
i still don't know what to think
:huh:
it's mainly a thought, as glad as i am the board is staying up without the FF section, there is very little i post here. so like i said i still don't know what to think about my future here and such, and i'm sure a lot of other are the same
this is not a knock on the boards or the titans and i would never mean it as such.
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 08, 2009, 04:56:21 PM
Quote from: Jakew on March 08, 2009, 12:18:28 AM
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 07, 2009, 10:36:40 PM
i still don't know what to think
:huh:
it's mainly a thought, as glad as i am the board is staying up without the FF section, there is very little i post here. so like i said i still don't know what to think about my future here and such, and i'm sure a lot of other are the same
this is not a knock on the boards or the titans and i would never mean it as such.
This will be rectified sooner than later.
I have complete faith in y'all.
Thanks for the update, GG...
I'm hoping this will pass quickly.. so we can get past all of the insanity and move forward to a stronger community.
And a big thanks to all of the Titans, Mods, and Admins for their quick actions and hard work.
- CQ
Glad to hear it. Thanks to you and everyone involved with making sure we stay afloat.
just wanted to say thanks also :thumbup: and to the evil doers..... :thumbdown:
Was away and missed everything. So I'm glad that at least this much has been resolved.
Obviously I want the FF stuff back, but even without it I'm glad this place will still be around to talk about comics, TV, and movies.
Don't give up on the FF stuff just yet.
And thanks everyone. I didn't do this alone. Randy did the board modifcations and Panther Gunn and Zapow advised me how to respond with leagaleze that is far beyond this poor Bachelor of Arts' head. :) Plus we had a great response from the titans when the word went out which helped make this go a ton smoother.
You guys are champions. It would have been very easy for you all to have just binned Freedom Reborn to avoid the threat of legal action. But you've all gone the whole nine yards to keep the forum open and protect all the people creating new Freedom Force stuff.
Nice! :D
Ok, so, what on earth did I miss?? I'm gathering that IPS left the community, complained that his work was still being shown here, then went even further to complain about Marvel and DC owned property being shown here? When did all of this happen? I thought things were fine..?
*really confused*
http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=49696.0 (http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=49696.0)
Take a peak at the "The Removal... (http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=49696.0)" thread. The discussion there covered most of the basics (at least in as much detail as needs to be aired here). Just keep in mind that some of the posts have a bit of a fatalistic take on things, but I don't think FR was ever quite on the brink of disappearing permanently and the final word on the FF forums isn't written yet, either.
D'oh! Ninja'd.
Oh, hm. I thought I read that thread, but apparently I read the thread that had that one quoted in the first post. :wacko:
Anyway, I'm shocked that he was banned, which is news to me. I was convinced that the mod issue from last month had died down.
Such a pity. I can't believe he's gone, and I can't believe that he tried to get us in trouble.
Believe it, FF...He did it and now claims he's sorry, yet still states this forum is run by fascists.
Dana
No, he claim's he's sorry people he "cared" about got hurt, not sorry he actually did it. He made that distinction.
Quote from: Figure Fan on March 09, 2009, 12:25:14 AM
Ok, so, what on earth did I miss?? I'm gathering that IPS left the community, complained that his work was still being shown here, then went even further to complain about Marvel and DC owned property being shown here? When did all of this happen? I thought things were fine..?
*really confused*
No, that's not right. ips was banned because of his behavior and then he threatened to be petty and vindictive. He never asked for his posts to be removed, which he easily could have and no one would had a problem doing, but instead filed a complaint in hopes of getting FR shut down to hurt the Titans for banning him. ips threw a tantrum like the child he is. That's the reality of the situation.
The ips version is that the Titans, mods, and admins have so little going on in their lives that they relish any opportunity to abuse the massive power of running a message board dedicated to modding a computer game based on superheroes. That despite being married with a kid, working a full time job, making comics on the side, running a non-profit charity, not even having Freedom Force on my computer or posting at FR anymore that I am obsessed with carrying out my fascist dreams on truly just and noble souls like ips in hopes I'll crush their amazing spirits. Surely years long grudges must be at play. That can be the only explanation. It must be that Randy, Mike and I somehow strong-armed all the Titans into banning the innocent ips for no reason at all. There is no way ips, who has always displayed his totally selfless attitude toward the community could ever be to blame for what transpired.
Zap stop, just stop.......that is totally uncalled for.....'cause you're going to kill me I'm laughing so hard. :lol:
I'm sorry. His absurd claims just needed to be put into perspective.
Hehe, this part still has me chuckling, "truly just and noble souls like ips."
Well, I'm not helping things, so I'm going to shut up now.
Wow! Turn your back for a minute...
Glad to see the forum has survived this ridiculous assault. (From a guy who did copyrighted skins!!! Jeez!) My thanks to Glitch Girl and everyone else who's had to dealt with this emergency.
We will keep on trucking, I hope. I do have one question.
In the current state of the forums, what is the most apropriate place to post news of original content being produced for the game? Here in General?
Dr. Mike...don't toy with me...if that means what I think it means.....
Quote from: DrMike2000 on March 09, 2009, 03:58:08 AM
Wow! Turn your back for a minute...
Glad to see the forum has survived this ridiculous assault. (From a guy who did copyrighted skins!!! Jeez!) My thanks to Glitch Girl and everyone else who's had to dealt with this emergency.
We will keep on trucking, I hope. I do have one question.
In the current state of the forums, what is the most apropriate place to post news of original content being produced for the game? Here in General?
Doc, give us a few days. They'll be a better place to post.
No worries, Zap. I appreciate all the work you guys are doing here, and not trying to hurry anyone along. Its just the first question that sprang to my mind.
Okay......restraining rampant imagination.....
That's nice to hear. I can't wait for things to get back to normal. For me, FR wouldn't be the same without a place to come and talk about FF ^_^ Thanks to all the Admins and Titans. :thumbup:
I can't believe that this has all come about... It's just petty, vindictive, and mean to do something like this to a community that has supported and, in a way, been a second home to ips, providing feedback and criticism as well as friendship. But hey, it's "on the internet" so it doesn't affect anyone, right?
My appreciation to the Titans, Mods, and Admins who, even if we do disagree with from time to time on individual issues, have the best intentions for the community as a whole, and work tirelessly and effortlessly towards that goal, even with such time-destroyers as family, full time jobs, and real life issues in the background. Probably been heard countless times over the last few days, but:
Thank you.
Thank you for the work that you do, even if we don't always appreciate it. Thank you for being level headed, even in the face of countless accusations of fascism, an internet dictatorship and not caring. Because you do. Care. And that means more to me, personally, than any of the people who try to bring down such tightly-knit communities simply because they, themselves have been slighted, outed, and outcast by that community.
Wow, I`ve been away for a week and it seems that I missed a lot.
Dunno the reason behind this, I thought that compromise was reached, but it seems that it wasnt enough. I find this behaviour immature and uncalled for.
Thanks to all the people that struggle to keep this place running!
right i know i'm gonna be made the bad guy with this post, but honestly i feel the one thing we can take from this is that FR could do with a few new more currently active mods.
not a bash on the current group but honestly how many still post or play the game, with the whole fighting that started the recent trouble could have been nipped in the bud if there was a few more active one
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 09, 2009, 01:05:06 PM
right i know i'm gonna be made the bad guy with this post, but honestly i feel the one thing we can take from this is that FR could do with a few new more currently active mods.
not a bash on the current group but honestly how many still post or play the game, with the whole fighting that started the recent trouble could have been nipped in the bud if there was a few more active one
I respectfully disagree.
There were efforts to moderate things, and I was contacted by moderators who were getting all sides of the story, and we were told publicly to rein it in.
It's very hard to judge when an argument, discussion or dispute is becoming "too much".
With hindsight you can talk of nipping it in the bud, but where is that bud? IPS's first objection to Benton's mod? The first replies against and for him? The second or third thread on it? The Poll I made?
At what point does a disagreement or discussion need to be censored?
It's a fine line on a slippery slope.
It may seem easy to say "the first insult gets the thread locked", but there are many ways to skin that particular cat, and some of us are quite adept at insulting "below the radar", so that's harder to apply than it seems.
No, the responsibility lies as much with the posters as the Mods, maybe more so. That's why I do personally feel responsibility for this whole mess, because I should have acted better, not had a Mod tell me how to act. If any lesson needs to be learned, it's that one, for me.
i agree with tommy in that it falls on us as adults to act like responsible adults.everyone knows right from wrong,when enoughs enough, and when to just walk away.i see things like this at work all the time.people know the rules and policies and they still do what they know they shouldnt do.
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 09, 2009, 01:05:06 PM
right i know i'm gonna be made the bad guy with this post, but honestly i feel the one thing we can take from this is that FR could do with a few new more currently active mods.
not a bash on the current group but honestly how many still post or play the game, with the whole fighting that started the recent trouble could have been nipped in the bud if there was a few more active one.
I don't post or play the game yet I'm still here along with a lot of the other mods on a daily basis making sure things are running properly.
Do you know what I find funny about this post? We are endlessly accused of being heavy handed and that we overly mod FR. That we don't let posters moderate themselves. Yet, as you can see, this is a case where we let a discussion continue and watched it closely so as not to stifle dialog.
As a moderation team we didn't have a problem with what ips had to say. He was expressing an opinion regardless of whether we agreed with it or not. We did have a problem with how he said it and what it did to the community.
When I'm getting messages like these for posters it became clear we needed to take some action regarding ips.
QuoteFirst an apology -- This rant is directed at all admins, you just happened to be the first I stumbled across.
I''ve been away from the FF community for a while, and just dropped by yesterday to see what was up. I was saddened by what I found. On the FF side of the board the old, happy community I remembered had vanished and been replaced by an atmosphere of hostility and suspicion.
If I was still a regular participant in the community this is the bit where I would try to be all balanced and even-handed and say "On the one hand this, but on the other hand that."
But now that I'm just watching on the sidelines I'll come out and say it plain: ips is behaving like an arse. He seems to think that someone died and left him in charge, so he's made up a bunch of rules about how other people should act on FR and is now engaging in his own little witch hunt with poor Benton as his target.
All he's managed to achieve, apart from gratifying his own endless appetite for drama, is to drive people away from a community that used to pride itself on being welcoming and open.
And, strangely, the admins have let this happen. One thing I always admired about FR was that it was a very well-run board, where the admins did a fine job of preventing flame wars. But this fire has been allowed to continue to burn.
Here's how I see it: either FR has a rule against something like Benton's mod or it doesn't. If it does, the admins need to state that rule clearly (preferably before someone spends years working on a mod.) If there is no such rule, then the admins need to prevent random posters from endlessly harassing modders working in good faith.
In other words, it's time for the admins to awake from their slumbers and forcefully remind ips that he is not, in fact, in charge of setting the board's policies. I'd say an appropriate action is that he refrain from commenting on mods (as opposed to keyframes, skins, etc.) in general for six weeks or so, or risk the ban-hammer.
Again, apologies for hitting you with this rant. And now I'll vanish again for a while. I hope the next time I return to FR it is a happier place.
Quotei never sent you a message befor..
can you please remove me from the community just these last few weeks its really been to dramatic here,
had my fun
time to move on with really life events
figured as much... I can be a pesimist but I've seen this site in trouble so many times that I know it is not going anywhere. If anything the boards where highly active, which is nice.
Quote from: tommyboy on March 09, 2009, 01:33:23 PM
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 09, 2009, 01:05:06 PM
right i know i'm gonna be made the bad guy with this post, but honestly i feel the one thing we can take from this is that FR could do with a few new more currently active mods.
not a bash on the current group but honestly how many still post or play the game, with the whole fighting that started the recent trouble could have been nipped in the bud if there was a few more active one
I respectfully disagree.
There were efforts to moderate things, and I was contacted by moderators who were getting all sides of the story, and we were told publicly to rein it in.
It's very hard to judge when an argument, discussion or dispute is becoming "too much".
With hindsight you can talk of nipping it in the bud, but where is that bud? IPS's first objection to Benton's mod? The first replies against and for him? The second or third thread on it? The Poll I made?
At what point does a disagreement or discussion need to be censored?
It's a fine line on a slippery slope.
It may seem easy to say "the first insult gets the thread locked", but there are many ways to skin that particular cat, and some of us are quite adept at insulting "below the radar", so that's harder to apply than it seems.
No, the responsibility lies as much with the posters as the Mods, maybe more so. That's why I do personally feel responsibility for this whole mess, because I should have acted better, not had a Mod tell me how to act. If any lesson needs to be learned, it's that one, for me.
Tom, Please stop...I don't feel this situation was your fault. Do not blame yourself for the actions of another, they made their own decisions. I agree that we all need to be mature and stop acting like jerks to each other, but you're not the only one and you're not solely responsible either.
Dana
Here HERE! I understand where your senses of responsibility are conjuring up from nad understand them because i have been put into your situation many times before. Not necessarily on here, but, in RL as well. The simple fact i had to learn is people will do what they want to do! If man wants money, it is his choice how to find it. Instead of working for it at a job, he robs a bank. Even if you were one factor in this equation, It was up to IPS to solve it in a rational manner. And beleive me when i say this was NOT a rational manner. :angry: Keep ya chin up tommy, you have an oppinion just as IPS did. You are however, are mature enough not to go have a hissy fit when things don't go your way!
And to the community Admins to casual followers, let us not dwell on IPS because if i have ever learned one thing it is that KARMAs a
Spoiler
HOLD UP! No fowl language here, no sir! (You can finish the last word of that phrase if you like. ^_^) It is already taking effect. If IPS is casually looking over our responses, how do you think it would feel to be hated by an entire community of anonomis people... once again Karmas a :) (insert previous fill-in-the-blank here) :D
Quote from: Zapow on March 09, 2009, 02:12:48 PM
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 09, 2009, 01:05:06 PM
right i know i'm gonna be made the bad guy with this post, but honestly i feel the one thing we can take from this is that FR could do with a few new more currently active mods.
not a bash on the current group but honestly how many still post or play the game, with the whole fighting that started the recent trouble could have been nipped in the bud if there was a few more active one.
I don't post or play the game yet I'm still here along with a lot of the other mods on a daily basis making sure things are running properly.
Do you know what I find funny about this post? We are endlessly accused of being heavy handed and that we overly mod FR. That we don't let posters moderate themselves. Yet, as you can see, this is a case where we let a discussion continue and watched it closely so as not to stifle dialog.
As a moderation team we didn't have a problem with what ips had to say. He was expressing an opinion regardless of whether we agreed with it or not. We did have a problem with how he said it and what it did to the community.
When I'm getting messages like these for posters it became clear we needed to take some action regarding ips.
ok maybe like i said i was over stepping my boundary's into topics i shouldn't be. i was only speaking from personal experience on other art based board where i have seen situations like this happen.
i wasn't saying the mods/admins/titans were not doing there job far from it, i was just throwing out ideas that could be used or dismissed. maybe i should have explained myself better
my idea which i have seen work on other boards would be that select indivuals are given mod ability's over select forums ie one for skins one for meshs. to keep the forums tidy and organised thus keeping the global mods/admins/titans the abilty to be free to do more important board related stuff rather than have to deal with little things like posts in the wrong section or doubles posts etc
but like i said i'm just a normal member here so maybe i'm sticking my nose into things i don't have a place in
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on March 09, 2009, 02:17:20 PM
Tom, Please stop...I don't feel this situation was your fault. Do not blame yourself for the actions of another, they made their own decisions. I agree that we all need to be mature and stop acting like jerks to each other, but you're not the only one and you're not solely responsible either.
Dana
You are correct it wasn't his fault. IT WAS MINE MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 09, 2009, 04:08:18 PMmy idea which i have seen work on other boards would be that select indivuals are given mod ability's over select forums ie one for skins one for meshs. to keep the forums tidy and organised thus keeping the global mods/admins/titans the abilty to be free to do more important board related stuff rather than have to deal with little things like posts in the wrong section or doubles posts etc
If I remember correctly, that is the way it used to be, when we were way more active, and just about all of the mods stopped by every day or so (or even more frequently). Attrition has done a number on us, but I think we've been doing a good job staying on top of things, since this place is (to my only Titan eyes) is relatively easy to manage on a daily basis; the incident that led to all this was definitely an aberration.
It may be time to cycle in some new Mods (not my decision to make, but I do get a vote on it), but not because we're falling apart. I think the Titans do a good job of alerting the Mods/Admins to anything that might have slipped through, or not been immediately noticed; and there's still enough of us active that we see most things.
Even though a lot has happened here, I'm not sure any big changes are called for. It may be important to keep a couple things in mind. 1) With a system that generally works, making changes right after an incident like this is often unwise because the tendency is to overcompensate and also to come up with approaches that focus on the issue central to the incident but which may not function that well in general. And 2), we don't want to get distracted fixing a problem that, for the most part, really doesn't exist. I mean, this has happened once in all the time I have been here, so keeping it in perspective is important.
Meanwhile, compared to any moderated site I visit regularly, we have a pretty healthy system. Obviously, there are cases when a thread goes too far before a mod sees it, but the reporting feature works to allow any member to alert us about posts that cross the line. With all that, some things will still slip past, but there is no perfect system. As mentioned before, the thread that got so heated last month was a tough one to moderate because we don't want to blunt discussion on issues that interest members and, with that in mind, it is difficult to determine when things have gone too far.
BTW, as sort of a general "silver lining" note, as much frustration as everyone has felt during this incident, I must say that I have been heartened by the way this community has pulled together, in support for one another, and in appreciations for the titans' and admins' work to keep us up and running. This is a great bunch of people and I am proud to be part of it.
Quote from: stumpy on March 09, 2009, 06:56:47 PM
BTW, as sort of a general "silver lining" note, as much frustration as everyone has felt during this incident, I must say that I have been heartened by the way this community has pulled together, in support for one another, and in appreciations for the titans' and admins' work to keep us up and running. This is a great bunch of people and I am proud to be part of it.
Nicely put Stumps (may I call you Stumps?). In fact I agree whole-heartedly with all you've said just there, but it was the last bit that warmed the cockles of me heart...
:o
I happend to click on the wrong bookmark and...
:o
From a legal standpoint, the Freedom Force Forum can continue without issue with original content and characters. The End User License that came with the game allows for that.
I'm not condemning or condoning anybody or their beliefs or actions, but individual artists do have the right to control work they produced, even it was done in violation of an existing copyright law.
As far as your personal portfolio sites, you should be able to continue to display copyrighted characters as long as you don't distribute any of the work. Most companies have "fan art" allowances in their copyright policies and, from what I understand, web sites are o.k.
Please keep in mind, however, that art is not my specialty, so if you have any concerns you may want to consult somebody.
Of course, I'm not active in the community any more, but, Stumpy is right, this appears to be an isolated incident and you don't need to overreact. If anything, you can remove the posts of members who may be banned in the future.
I am admittedly ignorant on file sharing laws, but it seems to me that, unless his work was being distributed by the forum itself, the forum could not be held liable for how it was used (or for the actions of it's members). This is particularly true if he voluntarily posted images of his own work on the forum (which, if I'm not mistaken have to be hosted somewhere else anyway?).
If this is the case, a simple disclaimer stating that, by posting images on the forum you give the forum the right to display (but not distribute) said images, might be enought to protect you.
Again, this is not my area of expertise, I can only go by what I know of property rights and contract law, so please don't take my word as anything other than my own opinion.
B92
Quote from: The Phantom Eyebrow on March 09, 2009, 07:15:04 PM
Quote from: stumpy on March 09, 2009, 06:56:47 PM
BTW, as sort of a general "silver lining" note, as much frustration as everyone has felt during this incident, I must say that I have been heartened by the way this community has pulled together, in support for one another, and in appreciations for the titans' and admins' work to keep us up and running. This is a great bunch of people and I am proud to be part of it.
Nicely put Stumps (may I call you Stumps?). In fact I agree whole-heartedly with all you've said just there, but it was the last bit that warmed the cockles of me heart...
What the heck is a cockle, anyway?
(Oh, I agree with TPE and Stumps too, I guess... :P)
Good to know that everything seems to be setting down a little bit, GG. Thanks for your hard work in order to solve this problem. And thanks to everybody else responsible for keeping this together.
Sheesh... leave the kids alone for awhile and look what happens....
I'm like a lot of folks. I don't play FF anymore. I have no particular skill as an artist. And I'm not as active on FR as I used to be since real life snuck up and whacked me on the back of the head.
But I will re-iterate that I'm glad FR is still here and I completely applaud and appreciate the efforts of the Titans, Admins, and Mods to keep it that way.
And I will remind everyone that this isn't the first time that the community was threatened by the extinction of its' message boards... nor is it the first time that someone childishly decided to ruin peoples' enjoyment of them. Okay, maybe it is the first time both happened at the same time...
Just remember that there are no copyright restrictions on friendships and that you can't break up a community by filing a complaint with an ISP.
One thing does occur to me, though. Could the Titans and Admins publish a policy that all posts hosted by FR are the property of FR management (or whomever might be appropriate). Let's shut down the ridiculous argument that somehow any nonsense someone happens to type here is their own property. If people want to post their own copyrighted material, they can link to it... which is pretty much what normally happens anyway in the case of artwork.
This episode does have me wondering about forum message copyright and charging royalties whenever I get quoted. Forget that actually, I rarely get quoted... :wacko:
Quote from: BlueBard on March 11, 2009, 06:05:09 PM
One thing does occur to me, though. Could the Titans and Admins publish a policy that all posts hosted by FR are the property of FR management (or whomever might be appropriate). Let's shut down the ridiculous argument that somehow any nonsense someone happens to type here is their own property. If people want to post their own copyrighted material, they can link to it... which is pretty much what normally happens anyway in the case of artwork.
Not many people would go for that and that's the kind of thing that could get FR into more problems. If any policy is introduced it would need to say something to the effect of "Any posts made by forum members are done by their own free will, and products posted by members are done with their consent. FR does not host images or files and is therefore not responsible for any copyright infringing products posted by the members -- just as a lamppost is not responsible for the flyers someone tapes to it." That's not very legalize, but you get the idea.
We're all adults here (well, most of us act like them anyway) and we all make our own choices. Once you make a choice you have a responsibility.
my question is...when is the resource part of the forum coming back?i'm sure theres quit a few skinners/meshers out there with things theyve created because of their love of the game and the enjoyment they see their stuff brings people that are just waiting for a green light.
Quote from: Tortuga on March 11, 2009, 06:19:10 PM
Quote from: BlueBard on March 11, 2009, 06:05:09 PM
One thing does occur to me, though. Could the Titans and Admins publish a policy that all posts hosted by FR are the property of FR management (or whomever might be appropriate). Let's shut down the ridiculous argument that somehow any nonsense someone happens to type here is their own property. If people want to post their own copyrighted material, they can link to it... which is pretty much what normally happens anyway in the case of artwork.
Not many people would go for that and that's the kind of thing that could get FR into more problems. If any policy is introduced it would need to say something to the effect of "Any posts made by forum members are done by their own free will, and products posted by members are done with their consent. FR does not host images or files and is therefore not responsible for any copyright infringing products posted by the members -- just as a lamppost is not responsible for the flyers someone tapes to it." That's not very legalize, but you get the idea.
We're all adults here (well, most of us act like them anyway) and we all make our own choices. Once you make a choice you have a responsibility.
I'm cool with that sort of language, too. You'd think "post by consent" would be inherently understood, wouldn't you?
I just don't want to see numbskulls thinking they can hold the site hostage by crying wolf. Now that someone has essentially done it, it opens the door for future disgruntled persons to try the same. I'd like to see that door shut, locked, and barred to the extent that it's possible to do without ruining the site for everyone. At a minimum, some recognition that when someone decides to post here it is not the responsibility of the admins to remove that text or link.
I guarantee that if it's clear that if you want your own posts removed you go do it yourself, that will put a kink in things.
(I'm chuckling at the image of someone rooting through hundreds of posts trying to delete all of their own.)
Nevermind... the technical difficulty of having a banned person remove their own posts escaped me momentarily.
:doh:
Quote from: BlueBard on March 11, 2009, 06:42:53 PM
Nevermind... the technical difficulty of having a banned person remove their own posts escaped me momentarily.
:doh:
...HA. :lol:
It's not uncommon for boards to have a couple lines in the board rules or user agreement that make it clear that posters are giving permission to host the content that they post. I saw something pretty extensive in the Washington Post's rules for submitting comments and I am pretty sure that if someone demands that all their posts be removed, the WaPo could legally just ignore them.
Anyway, it may be worthwhile to have a short statement like "FR does not host members' images, files, or other content; such content linked in posts must be hosted elsewhere. Posters give permission to FR to host the text and formatting of the posts indefinitely."
Quote from: stumpy on March 11, 2009, 08:10:16 PM
It's not uncommon for boards to have a couple lines in the board rules or user agreement that make it clear that posters are giving permission to host the content that they post. I saw something pretty extensive in the Washington Post's rules for submitting comments and I am pretty sure that if someone demands that all their posts be removed, the WaPo could legally just ignore them.
Anyway, it may be worthwhile to have a short statement like "FR does not host members' images, files, or other content; such content linked in posts must be hosted elsewhere. Posters give permission to FR to host the text and formatting of the posts indefinitely."
Sounds good to me.
What the heck?!?!?! I popped in to find my happy place, but it's not all here. I skimmed through some of the posts here, and am blown away. I want my happy place back! :banghead:
But seriously, I'm glad the boards are continuing. There's alot of good people here, and I hope that the resource threads do come back. But if for any reason that FR does go under and a new board is created, could someone drop me a line? There should be a few people around here who have my e-mail, I know Benton does for sure.
Until later, everyone take care. :thumbup:
Quote from: stumpy on March 11, 2009, 08:10:16 PM
It's not uncommon for boards to have a couple lines in the board rules or user agreement that make it clear that posters are giving permission to host the content that they post. I saw something pretty extensive in the Washington Post's rules for submitting comments and I am pretty sure that if someone demands that all their posts be removed, the WaPo could legally just ignore them.
Anyway, it may be worthwhile to have a short statement like "FR does not host members' images, files, or other content; such content linked in posts must be hosted elsewhere. Posters give permission to FR to host the text and formatting of the posts indefinitely."
Yeah, sounds like a good idea to me.. because really all FR was doing was providing links and those that don't wanna share anymore just have to remove their pics from their source and break their links.
- CQ
Seriously, there are much larger forums based on illegal torrents, roms,(actual copies of copyrighted material) that are legally safe because they do not actually host the content themselves.
In our case, it's fan art, and it's free. Nobody is bundling their skins with a scanned comic book or video file from a movie. I'm not sure about the legal implications of distributing skins, but I don't see any reason why FR wouldn't be perfectly safe without a disclaimer stating "We do not host files here" (or any other variation that has been previously worded, and better phrased)
Possibly, but I think I remember one of the mods saying on another thread that the board is down to protect others as well as FR.
Not only that but it seems like IPS threatend FR more than individual sites (if at all) because he knows this is the nerve center. I think if a holder of any infringed copyright saw it as such they could possibly set their eyes on it the same way the RIAA used to keep the evil eye on torrent sites (and probably still do). Not that I think that would happen, but for some reason putting up a disclaimer doesn't strike me as something that would change much for FR.
I think in reality if Marvel/DC did take an interest they would go stright to the artists than a forum where nothing is hosted.
That would in turn probably just cause FR to lose the posts/sections that pertain to the Marvel/DC stuff simply cause there would be no more need for them.
Legal questions:
If I spray graffiti on a wall, is it copyright protected? If someone comes by, takes a picture, then posts it on the internet, have they violated any copyright protections?
If I fax somebody my mother's recipe for oatmeal chocolate chip cookies for free, is the recipe copyright protected? Can Mom sue me?
If I send somebody an email and they forward it on to a million of their closest friends, have they violated copyright protections?
I'm a little hazy on the distinction between what's public domain and what's subject to copyright, but common sense ought to apply here. Posting on FR in my own words should be public domain and I think the ISP ought to recognize that.
Am I wrong?
Quote from: BlueBard on March 12, 2009, 07:14:27 PM
Legal questions:
If I spray graffiti on a wall, is it copyright protected? If someone comes by, takes a picture, then posts it on the internet, have they violated any copyright protections?
- technically yes. Your art. but you may have issues about the wall itself (if you don't own it)
If I fax somebody my mother's recipe for oatmeal chocolate chip cookies for free, is the recipe copyright protected? Can Mom sue me?
- I can't remember about things like recipes... I don't think it falls under copyright..but there are other protections which may apply
If I send somebody an email and they forward it on to a million of their closest friends, have they violated copyright protections?
- depending on the email... there could be privacy issues, slander issues, copyright issues, etc
I'm a little hazy on the distinction between what's public domain and what's subject to copyright, but common sense ought to apply here. Posting on FR in my own words should be public domain and I think the ISP ought to recognize that.
Am I wrong?
Most of what you asked are vague and thin lined wtih no clear cut answer... thus is the nature of copyright laws.
But let me throw a few tidbits out there.
I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with the musician Prince...and his recent 'war' vs. the internet... in this relevant case... his own fan sites. In order to avoid legal ramifications, the sites which 'DO NOT' and never did host any files... have been forced to remove any links to videos, links to music, unauthorized images, etc The sites banned together vs. his threats of legal actions... but were advised by their lawyers to comply voluntarily or be forced to comply and face real penalties. As part of a compromise... the fans can post images of Prince with the exceptions of a few which were never released to the public either officially or taken by the paparazzi or fans. But... no links directly or indirectly to any music or videos...period.
This is not unlike how 'Freedom Fans' treated 'copyright' material. We were not allowed to display... link to... or even discuss any material of a 'copyright' nature on those forums..ie no DC, Marvel, etc. We couldn't even link to sites which had the material.
Both of these examples lead me to believe that there may not be exact wording in the laws against this, but at some point legal precedence has been set which allows for legal actions to be taken vs fan sites and the like by copyright/trademark owners. And in these, cases hosting the files aren't relevant... its the distribution aspect. Even posting a picture on a forum is in essence distributing a file.
I'm pretty sure it may blanketed by file distribution issues which have been decided over the years.
Detourne_me, mentioned how some site are, "... legally safe because they do not actually host the content themselves." This is only true in part. Those sites are usually safe because they do not fall under specific copyright jurisdictions. Pirate Bay is one of the most notorious in this aspect because their site is hosted on servers in a country which U.S. copyright laws aren't enforced nor are any other copyright law which would make what they do illegal. This is a common safety net for sites which distribute copyright protected material... they find hosting in countries with more relaxed laws who don't honor U.S or most other international copyright laws.
Tommy,
Please do not blame yourself any longer. You were the victim here. From the beginning you have helped this community to better the game where the other guy had a totally selfless attitude toward the Community . Me Me Me. I always new that some day he would be the cause for FF's downfall here. Hold your head up and keep doing what you do here and with MUA.
God Speed.
I was curious, and please don't take this as an insistence more than an inquiry, but is there a general timeline of when the FF forums may be back up?
The part I don't get is how an artist can draw the Flash, for example, and put the picture on a website and not get in trouble, but another fan can create a skin or mesh of the flash, put it on a website, and then get in trouble. There is no difference between the two other than the media used. Heck, a lot of professional artist get paid to draw the Flash and none of that money goes to DC.
From what I've heard, there is a provision somewhere in some document (that I've never seen a copy of or even named) that allows for private artsits to create comissions using Marvel ad/or DC characters. Does anyone have a copy of that?
Maybe I'll dig around a little bit.
Later...
Found this on the Marvel website:
If you are aware or suspect any persons infringing on the intellectual property of Marvel, please describe the suspected infringement below. Please be as detailed as possible so that the claim can be investigated properly. Please also provide as much information as possible on the suspected infringer (ex. name, address, website, e-mail, phone number).
Such examples of intellectual property infringement are: 1) Unlicensed merchandise using Marvel's characters or names; 2) Unapproved commercial use of Marvel characters or trademarks; 3) Counterfeit products; and 4) Illegal copies of Marvel material being sold or distributed.
Certainly none of that applies here, but they are only examples.
I can't find anything on the DC site. Really strange.
i know a lot of lawyers would say 4 applies here and to fan art, basically you are taking a copy of there character design and passing it around without there permission
Yeee-Haw! :thumbup:
As Benton noticed, the FF section has been restored. :D
I'm not sure "illegal copies" applies to fan or commissioned art. Fan art isn't a "copy" unless they are directly recreating comic books or merchandise, right? I mean, if it were, then people like John Byrne, who is likely making several tens of thousands a year doing comissions, would be paying Marvel royalties.
I just want a reason why they can do it but we can't?
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! :thumbup:
Thanks to all the mods, admins and titans yet again for doing all they could to get everything back in working order.
I must admit, I gave a cry of triumphant victory when I saw it was back up! ;)
Thanks powers that be!!!!
Thanks for resolving this.
:thumbup: wat i'm i doing here :thumbup:
Even though I haven't actually played the game, or even downloaded anything for it, in a while (something that may change soon... I do miss it), I'm very happy to see that section of these boards that they originally centered around back. Felt like something important was missing. Great job, everyone involved.
Huzzah! All is right with the world again!
Hurrah! Thanks for restoring the FF forums and for your efforts through the whole ordeal, guys! I didn't dare to hope the rebirth to be complete and to happen this soon. :thumbup:
I can't see the FF sections, just community forums then the CoX section :(
OMIGAWWWD! I didn't know it was back and I was here twice already today...And all I had to do was scroll down a bit to see it....Urgh!
Thank you guys and gals for bringing it back.
Dana
Just to let you all know, Vertex said that IPS is getting read to contact the ISP again to shut us down again, so we may lose the resource section again. I think he wants it down permanently. Now that he's in control of Freedom United, he's probably hoping to have exclusive control over all content releases so he can decide what is and isn't acceptable. Watch out folks.
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 14, 2009, 05:03:48 PM
Just to let you all know, Vertex said that IPS is getting read to contact the ISP again to shut us down again, so we may lose the resource section again. I think he wants it down permanently. Now that he's in control of Freedom United, he's probably hoping to have exclusive control over all content releases so he can decide what is and isn't acceptable. Watch out folks.
Wow..
I mean, is there anything left that he can do? We've pretty much gotten rid of any problem he might have, etc.
If anyone had any doubt about whether the FF community matters to ips or not this should make it perfectly clear that he only cares about himself. His statement about not considering the cost of his actions with the last complaint rings pretty hollow.
I just noticed that the FF Resource Forums are back up. Doesn't this give IPS leeway to attack the FF forums again? Is that why he's talking about 'hidden content'? And since I haven't posted about the issue yet, let me just say that like everyone else, I was not happy with what went on last time, and will not be happy with what may go on this time.
Guhh! Isn't it enough that he's now reviled by everyone in the FF community?
Quote from: kkhohoho on March 14, 2009, 06:03:01 PM
I just noticed that the FF Resource Forums are back up. Doesn't this give IPS leeway to attack the FF forums again? Is that why he's talking about 'hidden content'? And since I haven't posted about the issue yet, let me just say that like everyone else, I was not happy with what went on last time, and will not be happy with what may go on this time.
No, because we don't host any copyrighted material. We removed the FF sections of the board last time to protect the members with content on their sites from the threat ips made about going to Marvel and DC. That wouldn't have hurt us, it would have hurt the community, but ips doesn't seem to care about that.
Quasi technical question - what would it take to host the forum "offshore?" I'm thinking that if FR were hosted on a server in, oh say, Sweden it would potentially be less vulnerable/exposed. I have no idea if this is feasable . . . just putting it out there.
Quote from: BentonGrey on March 14, 2009, 06:15:18 PM
Guhh! Isn't it enough that he's now reviled by everyone in the FF community?
Just like many of the 10 year old kids I teach, people do these things because they crave attention. Getting attention through negative means is always easier, faster and gets a bigger reaction. Unfortunately for them, it's never enough to be reviled by many people, because ultimately what they want is to be praised. They just can't figure out how to do that.
::sigh of relief::
I'm glad we're back up and running with the FF stuff. I want to express my most sincere appreciation to all the powers that be for not giving up on the community. To everyone here at the forums, I want to say that seeing the way we all came together when all of this went down was truely inspiring. Glad to know that there are still decent people in the world. haha.
Glad to be back.
Great that the FF stuff is back. I really appreciate all the effort all of you went through. You really went beyond the extra mile!
Much appreciation to all involved in keeping this place going! Like many, I'm something of a lapsed FF-er, but I still keep an eye on what folks are making and I'm pleased they still have the outlet here! :thumbup:
Thanks for all your effort guys. :thumbup: (Now does anybody know a good lawyer ?)
Quote from: President Raygun on March 14, 2009, 10:34:55 PM
Thanks for all your effort guys. :thumbup: (Now does anybody know a good lawyer ?)
Zap?
I would just like to add my thanks for bringing the Freedom Force forums back. :)
Awesome news.
Still unsure why deleting all of his posts was a solution to his copright claims, though. He put them there, after all.
Um... the fact that you've brought back the FF forums is great and all... but is there any chance I can be allowed to see them when I'm, y'know, logged in?
Nope, everyone but you, Tomato.
Yeah, Tomato, I am pretty sure everyone can read them. If they aren't showing up for you, maybe restarting your browser, clearing the cache, etc. might sort it.
Oh, I can read them, it's just that I have to log out to do it. It's very weird... if I had to guess, it probably has to do with my still being in the group for the FR calendar.
Yep, that's the problem. I fixed it for you. If anyone else is having the same problem and was part of the calendar group let me know.
Quote from: The Hitman on March 14, 2009, 01:38:24 PM
Huzzah! All is right with the world again!
*high fives Hitman and the rest of the crew* Ditto! Well done all involved. Great to see this section of the forum back!