I came across this site after seeing it on the news, .http://www.worldsuperheroregistry.com/world_superhero_registry_maine.htm. I thought it was interesting and wonder if life imitates art or art imitates life? :unsure:
(Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but wasn't sure what it would fall under).
We've discussed this before. I actually really appreciate what these guys do, and haven't heard any stories of violent death...I was on their message board a little earlier today, actually. They got raided by 4chan a bit ago...it was rather pathetic seeing all the trolling. >_<
Quote from: Iamrell2 on March 11, 2009, 07:09:22 AM
http://www.worldsuperheroregistry.com/world_superhero_registry_maine.htm
Maine? There's real life superheroes in Maine?...Or did they just mispell main?
Dana
I don't mind these guys if they're just dressing up in costume, helping get kittens from trees, and calling the cops if there are disturbances, etc. Like that Mr Silence guy.
But they really shouldn't carry weapons or get involved in physical altercations ... that's a pretty scary thought.
I wonder if they have any martial art training. It would be embarrassing to get your arse handed to you while in costume I would think.
Quote from: Gremlin on March 11, 2009, 07:35:47 AM
They got raided by 4chan a bit ago...it was rather pathetic seeing all the trolling. >_<
i haerd u leik it.
As long as they are not chasing illegal immigrants like those #T#@ minutemen I'm ok.
QuoteAs long as they are not chasing illegal immigrants like those #T#@ minutemen I'm ok.
As a Minutemen supporter, I don't appreciate that statement. I'm pretty sure you aren't supposed to go arguing about politics hear on FR.
:(
Mr. Silent claims to know some form of martial arts, but I don't know about the others.
Back on topic, some of the others do have some martial arts training and some carry legal stunning type devices.
In this case, though, the only one I recognized was Mr. Silent. None in my neck of the woods, though. I doubt folks around here would even tolerate such a person.
Red Arrow is the coolest superhero I've ever seen.
Quote from: BWPS on March 11, 2009, 05:54:26 PM
Red Arrow is the coolest superhero I've ever seen.
True. But what is his chest arrow pointing at? :o
Makes you wonder if there are any like Rorschach or Ozymandias..
modified for a Family Friendly Forum :blink:
:unsure:
You... you beat up a homeless guy...
He might have gotten some jail time or a fine or something...
WHAT IN THE HELL?
LoL I didn't say he was homeless - I said he was a thief & I don't do citizens arrest :blink:
Quote from: electro on March 12, 2009, 03:35:57 AM
LoL I didn't say he was homeless - I said he was a thief & I don't do citizens arrest :blink:
Oh if he's got a home it's ok! Did he tell you that stuff was stolen?
Don't DO citizens arrest? You can call the police and they can do an arrest, and guess what? They won't assault him for a minor crime. Do you know how stores punish people who shoplift? They get banned! It's a good thing you didn't wear a mask so hopefully he can describe you to the sketch artist.
I hope you're joking, if so that's funny, good stuff. If not, just... wow.
Electro = I hope you're joking.
re: Mr Silent ... that guy is tiny. I doubt he could defend himself from more than one person. He just strikes me as a harmless eccentric.
I'm surprised the people on that site admit to carry tasers and stun guns. That's scary! :unsure:
Modified for a Family Friendly Forum :blink:
The lines here are...fuzzy at best. This is why we have codified laws and cops paid and trained to enforce them. It seems to me that intervening in an attempted robbery and knocking the prospective thief around in the process is one thing, but to seek someone out after the fact...well, that is something else. Yes, people who do bad things deserve to be punished...but to quote a wise old wizard: "Many who live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death [and] judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." Admittedly he's talking about a more serious matter, but I think the point still stands.
Name me a superhero who beats up people who sell clothes that he thinks are stolen. Rorschach (the most extreme case I can think of, not meant to be a hero you really root for) went after child murderers and BAD criminals.
I myself may have issues with separating fantasy from reality, but I have enough sense not to take the law into my own hands and IF I did, I would be able to fit punishments to crimes a little better.
You're a way worse criminal than that guy even if he did steal that stuff. You think you're a hero for beating up some guy because he PROBABLY stole some clothes? Jesus, maybe he got them from The Salvation Army and wanted to sell them instead of wear them. You keep saying aggressive. But did he even hit you at any point? And does ANY of that, even assuming all your assumptions make beating up some hobo or crackhead or whatever he was okay?
You think you're allowed to do something like that because you don't think prison is a good enough punishment? What if someone jaywalks? Does that just get them a black eye or does every crime get the same?
As for that old guy, he was paranoid and did something stupid, though arguably legally:
QuoteUnder Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.
Definitely is a law that needs to be analyzed on a case to case basis.
QuoteUnder Georgia law, people and their brothers may use force if a guy at Burger King tries to sell them clothes that might be stolen.
hasn't passed, I'm sure of it.
You have a serious problem, and it's scary that there are people like you out there.
wow... the world may end... I agree with BWPS o_O
suspecting someone of a crime, and then geting help to go beat him up is certainly not the right thing to do, and certainly nothing to brag about ¬_¬
I guess irony woulda been someone seeing 2 guys beat up a panhandler and calling the cops.
Electro, what you did was messed up.
The guy wasn't getting violent with you, just harassing you, so you get your brother and "bashed him something serious"? This isn't cleaning up society, its brutality. You cant go around beating up anyone who annoys you.
And the fact thatyou think anyone who reads superhero comics should agree with you is extra scary. Thats a ridiculous stance - these are fictional characters in a relatively consequence free environment. Watching Tom and Jerry doesnt give you licence to hit people with anvils and frying pans does it?
The supposedly stolen clothes ended up in a bin thanks to you, not returned to the "hardworkign business" who may have been stolen from, so no actual justice was done here, just retribution.
For thousands of years there where no cops in every city, town, village in the world or cell phones to call them at the smallest whim of trouble - This is how punishment was met & still goes on to this day - As for naming a Hero I already did - Go pick up Daredevil Visionaries volume 1 & 2 Frank Miller - DD will nearly cripple someone just for the simplest of info - Heck he beat the snot out of Turk nearly every issue - If you find yourself having trouble with what he's doing then again I say why are you reading Vigilante/Superhero comics but, then again you where probably one of those readers going against Captain America & his gang in Marvel's Cival War saga - At my local comic shop we call these readers posers but, whatever I like you all & sorry to shine light on myself that makes you unconfortable guys - sometimes silence is a virtue :blink:
No way, Iron Man became the biggest jerk of all time and I was hoping he would be responsible for Cap's death and that Wolverine would eviscerate him as promised (and I don't even like wolvie that much). But Caps' issue was that people who had no control over who they were had to register themselves to be looked after by an untrustworthy government.
Also that wasn't real life, the laws are there for a reason and you aren't supposed to just follow the ones you agree with.
The fact that there used to be lynch mob justice instead of cops doesnt make it right today. There also used to be witch hunts, slavery, much greater oppression of women, child labour and a host of other social ills.
I read comics and play superhero games because I like violence. The testosterone-fuelled mammal hunter in me thrills to watching fictional people punch each other through buildings, or beat the snot out of each other or whatever in their little fantasy fishbowl of the comic page or monitor.
But I also detest violence in real life. It's ugly, and leaves mental and physical scars on real people. You do get the difference dont you?
The two are not equatable. Fantasy violence can be a good safety valve in my opinion, to help prevent the real thing, not encourage it.
It's hard to talk indepth about this topic here but, violence or war to me is just a tool - A tool that can be used for good or bad - Like a wrench I could kill someone with it or make machines to help humankind - All i'm saying is that it is a tool I have used before to try and do good - Like you said Mike violence in real life is a line that you draw in the sand that you won't cross because you find it detestible & your boldly saying it right to my face - Well everyone has there own lines in the sand that they find detestible Lugaru thinks Minutemen are horrible and probably thinks that about borders in general, while Cat finds them completly ok & encourages them - I myself find murderers, rapist, thieves detestible, Thieves so much so that I wont even download a song from the inter/web or guilt will consume me - I have no disaprovements of cops & I love/em and have used them when needed but, there slow & sometimes inaffective in emergency situations - Like if i'm in the city & see a woman being Violated my first reaction would not be to pick up a phone & call someone & twiddle my thumbs until someone can show up, it would be to immediately come to her rescue but, thats just how I was brought up to act like - That's what ultimatly drove me to liking Superhero comics because of this philosophy - I will take this time again to apologize to the forum members for describing in detail what I did in that situation seeing how it is against the rules to talk about real life violence you have commited - it's just that the question was posed if people really did Vigilante things & I responded & got caught up in the moment & should have realized that it would lead to trouble but, whats done is done right & the chips fell where they did :blink:
you hate thieves SO much, when you found a guy you SUSPECTED might be one... you beat him up... and took his stuff???
i'll let you decide who's the pot and who's the kettle here
[edit]
I just wanted to point out, a hero helps people in their time of need, they dont go out looking to beat up guys that they dont even know for certain are guilty, thats a thug mentality and pre-meditated assault, out of the 2 in a court of law i'm pretty sure you're the criminal
Uh...electro...that's messed up. I find it unlikely you'll find any 'heroes' that would agree with you. That's vigilantism, without due cause or legal reason. The Punisher might agree with those kind of tactics but, well, he goes on murder sprees from time to time as well.
Being a hero and taking the law into your own hands are two different things. One is protecting, and the other is actively attacking.
There's a reason why cops exist - justice when taken into the hands of the people is ugly and brutal, and usually creates more harm than good.
See part of the reason I love Watchmen and The Punisher so much is that they play to my distrust of vigilante justice. I grew up in the North of Mexico, which is no Sudan but still probably a lot worse than a lot of people on the boards can imagine. Drug dealers sell protection, kill cops and if somebody is suspected of a crime (such as defile) they will often end up dangling from a tree instead of in a court room. I'm sure a few people are pumping their fist and saying "Yeah!" but remember that I said SUSPECTED. And I grew up during the peso crisis when shop lifting was common, but I never beat the crap out of those barefoot kids I caught shoplifting glue so they could get high.
That's why I have an easier time believing in Rorshack (ultra nationalist, ultra right wing, ultra violent) than I do in Batman (never wrong, perfect judgement). One thing I loved about the new punisher movie was that Frank Castle shoots firsts and asks questions latter, which means he ends up shooting an undercover FBI agent. Real violence rarely is as precise as Fantasy Violence. In the end I'm like Dr. Mike, I recognize that violence thrills me but I see a huge chasm between the fantasy stuff and the real stuff.
I'll also joint in with the cries of disgust at electro's criminal vigilantism. It's one thing to stop a crime or arrest a criminal (which you can do within the law under the right circumstances) it's another to impose your own thuglike justice on anyone you believe has done wrong. Such behavior ALWAYS results in innocents being hurt. The little guy always suffers and the person claiming justice becomes the very worst of oppressors.
Yikes!
Ok I think yall have enlightend me now with your wisdom - Don't do Justice yourselves - Rely on scetch artist, store bannings, goverment to be the deterent seeing how it's working so well thus far in my neck of the woods & here I thought it was just tolerance run a'muck :doh: Man i'm dumb - So that's why I thought comics like Marvel's The Intitative where so stale because I just wasn't enlightened yet :banghead:
Let's keep it on topic guys.
Actually, this discussion isn't totally off-topic, but I think backing away from the harsher targeted posts is a good idea.
I suppose that these real world superheroes carry weapons on them for self-defense, which makes sense. Even if they were only out there to serve as eyes and ears for local law enforcement, it doesn't mean that someone wouldn't attack them. So that, to me, makes sense. Hopefully they aren't out there maiming those who they suspect to be criminals. That's why we have court systems and laws. But, what happens when these fail? Just because a case couldn't be proven to a judge and/or jury doesn't make that result correct, or even acceptable. So what do you do when this happens? Typically, this is where the urge to commit acts of self-initiated justice come in. Since I'm not siding either way, I'd like to put a few questions out there. What happens if someone you loved was killed, and the killer got off free of charge? Would you take it as it is and let it go? In this case, I fear that vigilantism may prevail. Maybe not, though. If it didn't, could you live with such a result?
Who exactly is a superhero, or even a hero at that? I don't consider heroes to be those who wear masks, necessarily. Take Martin Luther King, for example. He is a true hero to me. Through the use of non-violence, he was able to achieve so much in the way of equality. He wanted to make the world a better place, and he set out to do so. Did he wear a costume? Not really, unless you count his dressy suits. Now take a character like Ozymandias in his post-adventuring days. He was a hero just as Martin Luther King was, especially in the way that he set out to improve peoples' lives with renewable energy and scientific advancements. However, as most of us know, he didn't totally rely on non-violence to achieve his ultimate goal of a prosperous world. In this case, and as far as we can speculate, violence proved to be a useful tool in bringing positive change.
Now, I'm not saying I agree with his methods, so don't be afraid of me or something crazy. But, I guess I'm just trying to say that discounting violence as totally destructive and unnecessary isn't correct, either. After all, we still do go to war to bring about change. Think whatever you will about that. Without violence, there would be no non-violence. They must both exist in order to justify one another.
Okay, I'm done for now. Feel free to quote me or what have you. Hopefully I haven't overstepped my posterly bounds.
I think going more general with this is probably a good idea. As far as Ozy is concerned...I think the necessity of his actions is still somewhat undetermined. Was nuclear war inevitable? Perhaps, but perhaps not. I stand by the idea that true heroism is about self-sacrifice rather than sacrificing others. To return to Frye's Archetypal theories once more, Ozy might be classified as a "Leader," one who stands out from his fellow man and makes difficult choices, but who is ultimately subject to moral judgments.
As to the more...difficult questions here. Well, let me add this for us all to think about. The following is a story I don't tell very often. A very good friend of mine, a girl whom I was quite close to, had something terrible happen to her one night. I'm sure you can all fill in the blanks. I was around three hours away, but when I heard about it I prepared to drive home from school, get my gun, and go after the man who had done this. Maybe I would have killed him, maybe I just would have hurt him, I don't know. She refused to tell me who it was, and that may have saved this man's life. However, that refusal also spared me a terrible decision. Who are we to judge even the worst of crimes? If I had done that, I would have had to live the rest of my life with the knowledge, maybe gone to jail, and all in the search for a vengeance that wasn't mine to take. There are good reasons for an impersonal justice system, and although it doesn't work perfectly...it is better than the alternative.
Weird thread :huh:
Basically, patrolling the streets and dispensing rough justice to people doesn't work, because people aren't infallible and you'll be putting yourself or others in danger. Police officers go through training in order to be allowed to judge who is "wrong" or "right", and even they are held accountable for their actions.
Defending yourself or others if the situation calls for it = fair enough, although I can totally understand BentonGrey's story about wanting revenge when something awful happens to a close friend.
Getting involved in the community through charity work or social awareness programs is also a great way to help people. It isn't as "cool" as disguises, and a hidden lair full of gadgets but its rewarding ... well, more rewarding than whaling on them with your family members, I'd assume.
On another subject, has anyone ever seen one of these "real-life" costumed vigilantes?
Good points both of you.
And Benton--WOW. It does make you wonder, that's for sure.
As for your comment on Ozymandias..I was thinking that he DOES sacrifice himself, to some extent. His sanity for sure. I mean, like he says in the book, someone had to the bear the burden of making a choice like that. Say it were the only alternative to a nuclear crisis, and he didn't decide to do it, what would have happened? I wonder how I'm even able to make a case for such an atrocious act, but then again, it is better than having the entire planet destroyed. As sad as that may be to say..
As for seeing heroes in public--no, I haven't. I wish I could, though, if only once.
Quote from: Jakew on March 13, 2009, 04:35:51 AM
On another subject, has anyone ever seen one of these "real-life" costumed vigilantes?
Never SEEN one, that is for sure, although I've been around a lot of masked protesters both in Mexico and here. Honestly I cannot picture myself putting on a costume unless I was doing some charity for kids or if what I felt I needed to do was potentially illegal like harrassing CEOs or something.
I suppose the things to ask about real-life vigilantes (they aren't "super" heroes to my mind, masked adventurers, mystery men maybe) is what is the motive?
Do we (and/or they) believe that;
1. the criminal justice system works
2. it works mostly but wrong doers get off entirely or are punished too lightly sometimes
3. it works sometimes but wrong doers get off entirely or are punished too lightly often
4. it doesn't work at all
If you believe 1, then your motives maybe are thrill-seeking, a need to commit violence, a death-wish or other. Mainly you probably need counseling at the very least.
If you believe 2 or 3, is the best way to improve things to take the law into our own hands? Are we better trained, or informed than the "system". Are we more impartial? Is a beating more of a deterrent or tool of rehabilitation than what the "system" offers? If we eschew the law, and a system of trials, and evidence, and proof beyond reasonable doubt in favour of Might Makes Right, can we claim any sort of moral high ground? What makes a Vigilante beating a man for selling stolen goods better than a Mugger beating the same man in order to steal the goods? How do we know we are Right? What standards of proof are Vigilantes held to, and if you question them on it, will they just tazer you and beat you?
If you believe 4, everything I've said above applies to you, particularly the bit about counseling.
actually here in mcminnville tenn. we have a young guy that has a homemade costume who has been seen at night walking the town.also seen during the day.hes dressed in black and his mask has ears.he works during the day as a mild mannered cook at the waffle house.havent heard of any foiled crimes yet.then again...he could be a villian.
Quote from: herodad1 on March 13, 2009, 03:52:37 PM
then again...he could be a villian.
You would probably know by now, unless his villain name is "The Loiterer".
QuoteI suppose the things to ask about real-life vigilantes (they aren't "super" heroes to my mind, masked adventurers, mystery men maybe) is what is the motive?
You forgot
5. Believes that the justice system works, but is dependent upon individuals helping and working with the system.
that was a good one lugaru! :lol:
Ok, had to really search to find this thread but wanted to share this. i mentioned a guy in our town that dressed in his hero garb and patrolled our streets. well, he made the news. here's the exclusive on...CATMAN! http://www.newschannel5.com/global/story.asp?s=12862446
:wacko:
Seriously, though....It's good to see some folks wanting to help others...That's what matters most.
Dana
/em Reads title
"Rorschach's journal. July 28th, 2010:"
yeah, your right dana...thats what really matters. :)
I love the idea of dressing up and helping people, it's a great thing. Making a website and promoting yourself.....not very fond of. I can understand why they are doing it, so people won't be scare of think of them as a joke, but it feels like they are looking for attention. Maybe it's just me.
Quote from: JeyNyce on July 29, 2010, 12:25:22 PM
I love the idea of dressing up and helping people, it's a great thing. Making a website and promoting yourself.....not very fond of. I can understand why they are doing it, so people won't be scare of think of them as a joke, but it feels like they are looking for attention. Maybe it's just me.
He's named himself CATMAN and wears a costume. I think the only reason you would ever do that is you're looking for attention.
I read something like this in Yahoo! news a few months ago, but most of those guys weren't doing crime fighting. They used their costumes as an argument for a cause the way some artists and actors use their skills for a cause, and personally, if I saw a crime happening and had reasonable chance of stopping it without dying in the process, I hope I would have the courage to do something about. I do have a martial arts background, but I hate fighting (I never said I was entirely consistent). Dressing up in a costume to go out looking for crime to fight, that sounds problematic. First, you would have no authority to arrest anyone; so, apart from bruising them up a little bit you aren't doing that much.
As for carrying weapons, I come from a gun state. If I was terribly afraid of crime, I'd by a pistol and a conceal and carry license; however, I would be somewhat peevish about masked men carrying guns. My state is also an old west state, and I do have outlaw ancestors.