Well ladies and gentlemen...
I figured I'd clear the air about Freedom United and let everyone know where the forum stands. I had VERY high hopes about the forum and presenting a new angle on the whole Freedom Force creation aspect. I was really getting worked up on what I was gonna be able to achieve with it, was working trying to get the freedom wiki moved over to link to it and make it a real creative hub.
I know a lot of people are furious with IPS and have every right to be. Join the club... guy kept telling me he was giving me the space to try to put some new life in this old girl we call FF. Instead what he ended up doing, was shooting me in the back as he blasted the Freedom Reborn forum for payback. I know what I was trying to get started woulda been good but now it's just a waste. I'm completely drained by what went down and how it ended up looking to everyone and apparently I was the only one too blind to see I was making a deal with the devil.
This being said, I've spoken to IPS and he's set it up with his space provider to break off the forum from his control to mine. The forum's space and bandwidth is pre-paid for at least a year so I'll leave it up for anybody that feels like using it as a playground. I've already spoken to HG to not bother modding it anymore and just let it go however it ends up.
To any who resent Freedom United and think it was just some sham to draw people away from FR... well I can assure you on my part it wasn't. This being said I just wanna apologize to the community for the ... impression it gave everyone and reassure any people still wondering that it was (on my part) a real hope to add something new. This has all been a lesson to me on blind altruism and I guess being as stubborn as I am it ended up as it had to, learning the hard way. Anyways to those who attempted to support Freedom United I thank you and wanna let ya know I appreciated the support.
See ya in the funny pages folks,
Bobby
Hey VX, you know how I feel about everything man, and let me add my support for you, personally, at least one more time here. I'm sorry things went down this way man. Don't let this sour you on FF in general, there are still awesome people here and tons of great ideas. I still believe that we are on the cusp of a new age for FF!
We still could be if people are interested I do not have remove my set up from my site. I have the basics and if you want to move the set of the forum to my server and what not it would not be an issue. I could set you up no problem. I want to see creations and ideas shared. I want to see new OC. pm me if you want to take me up on the offer. and it will always be ther because I believe in this community and talent that exists here.
Sorry to hear that, man. Timing and circumstances screwed up a genuine effort to provide an alternate place for more intense discussion and dissection of the creative side to FF modding.
Bobby, I'm sure anyone that knows you has no illusions about who's wearing the black hat and who's wearing the white hat in this snafu. Please, don't let one rotten apple sour you on the entire community and those that still want to contribute to it for no other reasons than blind altruism and a love for comics.
I for one am not going to let one immature fool's hissy fit spoil my love for the game and the sense of connection I have established with the people on FR. His stupidity will only serve to galvanise those that remain to do greater things and we will endure as we always have. I urge everyone to put this behind us and move on into the future with a renewed sense of purpose and determination.
Hey, I still think you're cool ;)
Noooo :(
Vertex - I thought, and still think, that Freedom United is a good idea. I don't think anyone blames you for the IPS situation, and as long as he's no longer involved with FU in any capacity, there's no reason why it shouldn't continue. I don't blame you for wanting to back off and take a breather, but I hope that ultimately you'll decide to keep it going. If not, it was fun while it lasted. ^_^
Wha-huh?!
I certainly don't blame you for what happened with IPS and I was ready to support FU (which is why I started a map thread)...That however soured for me after what happened to FR and the fact that IPS was still at FU. One other member, by his rude comments soured me on the forum further...None of this is your doing Bobby.
You did a good thing by starting an alternate forum and trying to add a little variety into the FF community, don't feel it was a bad thing.
Best.
Dana
BTW: It's down for maintenance and I was very frustrated in not being able to get to it.
UPDATE:
Talked with IPS about the seperation, it's not going through and now he's sole "owner" of FU since I gave it up. Also I hear from IPS he's launching another attack to Lunar pages trying to shut FR down. So... stand by for heavy seas folks it's not over yet. I ask that none of you go near FU cause it's not a place to be.
I still think that FU is a good idea. As I said before, I'd be more than willing to host such a thing, or a new version, no strings attached.
As for his launching another attack on FR, how? He has no claim to anything further.
oh geeze.. i cant believe this :banghead:
thanks for the heads up bobby
Ouch, man.
That is very weak. It's so weak it did a 360 and became strong. It's so weak it went past strong and back to weak again.
But yeah, this is a darn shame right here. I was getting used to FU's layout... but then I actually couldn't log on for most of last week. I dunno why. Typing my name and password just reloaded the login page for me.
But now it seems it doesn't matter. Again, it's a darn shame. Too bad this did not go through how you wanted it. I definately supported this endeavor.
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 14, 2009, 05:01:10 PM
I still think that FU is a good idea. As I said before, I'd be more than willing to host such a thing, or a new version, no strings attached.
As for his launching another attack on FR, how? He has no claim to anything further.
Not quite sure it didn't make much sense to me, but something about how they didn't get rid of material but hid it. Basically he's out to try to remove FR's ability to host FF material altogether. His ultimate goal apparently is to force everyone away from FR to either a new forum or to his.
Again, his illogical complaint is that we host copyrighted material. We don't. The posters here do. Again he makes the community a target while throwing his tantrum.
That lousy, scum-slurping, son of a....
I hope nobody from this forum goes there and panders to that back-stabbing so-and-so...Any forgiveness I may have had for him is now long gone...May he rot! Oh and I'm removing my bookmark to it, right now.
FF does need an alternative forum, though (like FU, the old NPI forums or even like the Official FF boards of old, etc...)...I'd like to see one created, somewhere, sometime.
Dana
I don't think anyone really believes you had anything to do with it, and if they did, it was probably a blind kind of 'attack' on anyone associated with PIS, in any capacity.
I think most of us know better than that and are in no short supply to back you up. It's a shame that things occurred the way they did, though.. You really seemed genuine in providing a new venue for FF fans to check out and it sucks that it was mired with so much negativity due to one person's actions.
PIS is trying to shut down the forums again, huh? He does realize he's in his 30's, right, and not some teenage girl who just lost her boyfriend? Sad.
well what do you expect.. he dont get his way and like a child he takes his toys and goes home..
Spoiler
must of been the abuse as a kid :lol:
ok LP your point PIS? :unsure:
I think personal attacks of that nature should not be done. We must not sink to his level.
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on March 14, 2009, 05:14:09 PM
FF does need an alternative forum, though (like FU, the old NPI forums or even like the Official FF boards of old, etc...)...I'd like to see one created, somewhere, sometime.
Dana
Do we "really" need another forum when so many are sitting about going unused? We should make use of what we have first, me thinks, as no one site outside of FR is really all that active.
Regardless, sorry "FU" is going down, Vert, and all this drama that keeps interrupting calm periods is beyond irritating at this point. I now question why I even decided to come back, as every time I think things are cooling down and going back to normal, someone kicks dirt in our collective eyes. I say goggles needs to drop the pop star act and make us all goggles. Yep. Get on that Shirley.
Quote from: Previsionary on March 14, 2009, 05:34:17 PM
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on March 14, 2009, 05:14:09 PM
FF does need an alternative forum, though (like FU, the old NPI forums or even like the Official FF boards of old, etc...)...I'd like to see one created, somewhere, sometime.
Dana
Do we "really" need another forum when so many are sitting about going unused? We should make use of what we have first, me thinks, as no one site outside of FR is really all that active.
Regardless, sorry "FU" is going down, Vert, and all this drama that keeps interrupting calm periods is beyond irritating at this point. I now question why I even decided to come back, as every time I think things are cooling down and going back to normal, someone kicks dirt in our collective eyes. I say goggles needs to drop the pop star act and make us all goggles. Yep. Get on that Shirley.
Well Prev my pal/buddy/friend, some of those forums have been forgotton, and I'm trying via PMs to get them active again...So no, I guess we don't need a bunch of new forums, let's just use the ones we have. However, advertizing/linking them openly here might be a bad idea, since we're being watched by vengeful eyes.
best.
Dana
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 14, 2009, 05:21:21 PM
I think personal attacks of that nature should not be done. We must not sink to his level.
I agree.
Dana
Vertex, I'll restate that for my part I don't hold you (or any other FU contributor) responsible for anything IPS might say or do.
I hope that you will continue to be part of the community, and to make the great meshes we all have come to love.
I'm sure that the last couple of months have been unpleasant for you, but hope that the bigger picture is the years you've been in the community outweighing the last few months.
Vertex, I'm sorry to hear it if you've copped any flak over recent events. I've always been a big fan of your work and I hope you've not been soured on things FF and FR related.
... sad.
At some point some of us get upset and have issues with the head honchos and most of us blow off steam and swear the place off. People quit, leave, take sabbatical - whathaveyou. They just simply decide to remove themselves from the community until the steam blows off, they change their minds, think better of the situation or come to some common sense.
Until this point no one has took it to themselves to remove the community.
I have to say, this hurts. It doesn't make me angry. It just plain hurts.
Its one thing to have people randomly attack the place with hacks.
Its another to have someone who was part of the community, who decides the best way to take their anger out on a select few, is to destroy the community as a whole. That kind of anger hurts. The heart and soul of this community is creativity and sharing it. While the community is not 100% full of those who contribute something.... it is full of 100% people who appreciate it. While I may not have cared for some people or was the best friends with everyone --- I can certainly say I 100% appreciated everything they contributed.
Its disheartening to say the least when someone who is of the creative community decides to do something like this --- and they don't care. The first attack may have been of anger, but with the second reported oncoming attack, its clear that this is personal and not just against a select few... but against the community as a whole.
They just don't care and that hurts.
I'm glad we weathered the first storm just fine. One would hope that FR's provider just visiting irrationalgames.com and its sister sites freedomfans.com with freedomfans.com/modforce would be enough to show them the developers of the game whole heaterdly support modding and thus this community. One also hopes they have enough sense to see, the complaints are more about harassment and not legitimate complaints considering the complainer also was one of the "offenders" themselves.
This community was built by those who are creative and wanted to share. May it live as long as those who are willing to do such, do such. Best of luck to the one who made his intent fully visible and wishes to build a community founded on hate, anger and what they themselves wanted destroyed, so that they could only control it themselves.
RTT
honestly this make you just want to lose it
i never understood what my dad ment :unsure:
when he use to tell me keep my friends close and my enimies closer till now :doh:
itssa shame 20 years later it finally struck me :banghead:
Part of the issue, is that regardless of what we have said concerning the matter, some people continued to question the circumstances under which FU was created in the first place.. and they directly or indirectly cast judgment onto Vertex's (and a lesser extent my own) integrity. Also, adding to what was already a betrayal from IPS, there was a healthy contingent of the 'you should have knowns' from various community members. These judgments were not necessary and for the most part have been way off base. I could go on a lot more... but I'm not because it won't serve a point. Whats been said has been said... if you missed it.. then maybe you're better off in ignorant bliss.
Over the past couple of months there has been projects which should have strengthened the community... but instead... egos, agendas and vendettas have made it even weaker. But... heh... what else is new. For better or worse (more worse) that has been the story of this community. I wish I was a part of the 95% of you who just don't know what has been said and what has gone on in this community over the years you are not privy too. Maybe then I would see things in a nice contrasty black and white... instead of this big blur of grey.
Whatever may have been done in the past HQ, I've gotta' say I don't see too much that's gray about this...and I happen to like gray quite a bit.
I can think of one or two people who really accused FU and pushed the idea that there was something inappropriate going on. It seems to me like that is a vast minority...of course, I don't know what went on in PM's. Still, there is only one person to blame for this debacle HQ, and it ain't too hard to figure out who it is.
Quote from: Vertex on March 14, 2009, 04:55:04 PM
UPDATE:
Talked with IPS about the seperation, it's not going through and now he's sole "owner" of FU since I gave it up. Also I hear from IPS he's launching another attack to Lunar pages trying to shut FR down. So... stand by for heavy seas folks it's not over yet. I ask that none of you go near FU cause it's not a place to be.
Quote from: TaskmasterXXX at Freedom United
Going by past behaviour of IPS, he could suddenly decide to shut FU down because he's not being agreed with. Or, because he has no fear of being banned here at FU, because he hosts the forums, he can wreck havok with FR and no one can do anything because he has his new FF home.
Maybe I should change my name to NostradamusX? So, now the little creep has basically taken down two FF forums. I would guess his aim is now to be the one who single-handedly wiped out the FF community because he has nothing else to lose.
Quote from: House Quake on March 14, 2009, 10:23:16 PM
Also, adding to what was already a betrayal from IPS, there was a healthy contingent of the 'you should have knowns' from various community members. These judgments were not necessary and for the most part have been way off base. I could go on a lot more... but I'm not because it won't serve a point. Whats been said has been said... if you missed it.. then maybe you're better off in ignorant bliss.
I knew. I would have never thought of asking someone with IPS's attitude to host something that I put a lot of hard work and effort into especially right after he was banned from a forum that had to do with what I was working on. IPS has a history of
getting back at those that he thinks have wronged him. I knew his banning wasn't going to be any different. When the FF forums came back up and I heard that Vertex was trying to drop IPS from his site, I knew that this still wouldn't be the end of 'ol IPS and I told some people this via PM. So here we are. It's obvious now he isn't going to stop. What's the next step we take?
Quote from: TaskMasterX on March 14, 2009, 11:11:04 PM
Quote from: House Quake on March 14, 2009, 10:23:16 PM
Also, adding to what was already a betrayal from IPS, there was a healthy contingent of the 'you should have knowns' from various community members. These judgments were not necessary and for the most part have been way off base. I could go on a lot more... but I'm not because it won't serve a point. Whats been said has been said... if you missed it.. then maybe you're better off in ignorant bliss.
I knew. I would have never thought of asking someone with IPS's attitude to host something that I put a lot of hard work and effort into especially right after he was banned from a forum that had to do with what I was working on. IPS has a history of getting back at those that he thinks have wronged him.
Well see...That's where quite a few folks got it wrong, TMX....Vertex set up the United forum
before IPS was banned...He didn't know what was coming.
Quote from: TaskMasterX on March 14, 2009, 11:11:04 PM
I knew his banning wasn't going to be any different. When the FF forums came back up and I heard that Vertex was trying to drop IPS from his site, I knew that this still wouldn't be the end of 'ol IPS and I told some people this via PM. So here we are. It's obvious now he isn't going to stop. What's the next step we take?
We forge ahead, full speed.
Dana
QuoteI would guess his aim is now to be the one who single-handedly wiped out the FF community because he has nothing else to lose.
I would think it more likely that he wants to control the main FF forum so his standards are what goes.
However, FUnited has a closed indefinitely notice right now, so maybe that isn't quite true.
EDIT: Nope, it's gone completely, so I was wrong there.
Quote from: Vertex on March 14, 2009, 05:03:46 PM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 14, 2009, 05:01:10 PM
I still think that FU is a good idea. As I said before, I'd be more than willing to host such a thing, or a new version, no strings attached.
As for his launching another attack on FR, how? He has no claim to anything further.
Not quite sure it didn't make much sense to me, but something about how they didn't get rid of material but hid it. Basically he's out to try to remove FR's ability to host FF material altogether. His ultimate goal apparently is to force everyone away from FR to either a new forum or to his.
Definitely wouldn't be to his. If he thinks he's going to poison things here then expect everyone to migrate to someplace where's he's in charge - let alone posting - then he's not just being petty, he's lost his mind.
i just can not see this happening, its got to be a bad dream :(
i think ill go back to bed
Quote from: Vertex on March 14, 2009, 04:55:04 PM
UPDATE:
Also I hear from IPS he's launching another attack to Lunar pages trying to shut FR down.
O_o It's beyond belief...
In and of itself ,that's not very healthy to be driven by resentment like this.
I've been hurt deeply by 'so called' friends twice during different period and I can tell rancour can easely poison your every day life.
Freedom force(s) are rare games ,only known by a few. (FFVTTR is still avalaible in most shops , but the european version was so badly done that it's not compatible with mods and you can't even add some custom meshes without some handling that casual gamers can never guess. It scare away players...)
What I mean is the fact that FF community is rare like endangered species
And, although he obviously love that game he's actually killing his own kind...
I remember of the crisis of infinite posts and its quiet conclusion.
But I missed some posts, since I never knew why and when Ips was banned.
By the way Vertex, your dream is not bound to a specific url. You can 'build again' somewhere esle. You got the proof that no one is charging you for what happened.
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on March 14, 2009, 11:40:25 PM
Well see...That's where quite a few folks got it wrong, TMX....Vertex set up the United forum before IPS was banned...He didn't know what was coming.
Dana
Yes, but Vertex told me that the existence of FU gave IPS the incentive to fight the Argument he did against BG's mod, here at FR. It was IPS's plan all along to tear down FR so that people would look at FU as alternate place to hang out. Vertex has been very vocal about the things he dislikes about FR and how those dislikes were the motivation to start his new forum. And even though Vertex set up the forums
before IPS was banned, it's common sense to find another host for your forum
before you make your new forum known at another forum that your host was banned from two days
after he was banned.
TMX... I hate to be rude here, but having been on FU after IPS got banned, the only two threads I saw him contributing to were his own skin thread and the thread AA started to vent his frustrations about what happened on FR. He was not a moderator, he made no executive decisions at any point as far as I could tell. And aside from making some rediculous anti-FR statements on the latter board(which, to be fair, would support your theory that he did this to undermine FR) he didn't even go into any of his usual politics. Hell, he left the boards shortly after the whole thing blew up, apparently to shut them down, the little... *cough*
As I see it, your entire argument is "Well, he hosted it." Because, as we all know, the host automatically mind controls everyone on the staff. So if Cat does something insanely vindictive, TUE and Podmark must be evil conspirators. After all, cat's the one paying for their servers. Or if Renegade does something horrific, C6 must be in on it.
I'm not saying I think Vertex is comfy cozy with all of FR's admins. Nor do I think IPS didn't have support from the mod staff on FU when he was perma-banned on FR. Hell, I wouldn't even say I didn't have some sympathy (and might have even supported him) for him, even though what I heard from Prem put me on tommy and Benton's side. But all this... Grah, I don't think there's even an ounce of sympathy left for him in me. I even said some things about him to to Prem I didn't think myself even capable of thinking about. But that's just it, this was IPS, not Vertex, and all your little conspiracy does is further damage the community.
Vertex, I know we're not friends or anything, but know that I personally would love to have FU back up. A different layout would be nice maybe, but still, the board was nice.
TMX, please drop it. There is nothing productive to come from your posts.
Quote from: TaskMasterX... Vertex told me that the existence of FU gave IPS the incentive to fight the Argument he did against BG's mod, here at FR. It was IPS's plan all along to tear down FR so that people would look at FU as alternate place to hang out. Vertex has been very vocal about the things he dislikes about FR and how those dislikes were the motivation to start his new forum. And even though Vertex set up the forums before IPS was banned, it's common sense to find another host for your forum before you make your new forum known at another forum that your host was banned from two days after he was banned.
You really need to use some 'common sense' and just leave it alone. All you have succeeded in doing is to continually pour lighter fluid onto the fire with your accusations and speculations. In your quest to some how prove you were 'right'... you have aided in the spread of mis-information. You are drawing conclusions based more on your own speculations and and less on facts. And then spreading this rhetoric and exasperating the problem... as if it needed it.
You keep crossing Vertex's motivations with IPS'... and that simply isn't fair. MANY people have been banned from FR in the past and not resorted to what IPS did. I can think of at least one situation which involved persons who had been banned or at the very least had become community pariahs, who had their own forums... where you were a regular at yourself.
But I should thank you for proving my point.
Quote from: Zapow on March 15, 2009, 01:17:58 AM
TMX, please drop it. There is nothing productive to come from your posts.
I agree. I think that we should stop letting the forum's life revolve around Mr. Drama. We're only feeding his ego, after all. Let's emulate Londoners from the Blitz, and just get on with "business as usual."
off the subject a bit not really tho
question please be honest as possible
now IF FU was to get back on there feet
with a laid back person to host them
with just the love of the game only in mind
to make it as right as possible with out you know who anywhere near it
funny i cant even remember his name ..see how that works guys ;)
would this be a good move in the direction for freedom?
how would everyone feel ?
I am totally out of the loop regarding the behind the scenes work of FR, but, if something did happen to the site, will someone be able to contact members through e-mail or IM to let them know of a possible new forum? This is obviously a worst case scenario, but still..
Just wondering.
Quote from: Figure Fan on March 15, 2009, 02:34:29 AM
I am totally out of the loop regarding the behind the scenes work of FR, but, if something did happen to the site, will someone be able to contact members through e-mail or IM to let them know of a possible new forum? This is obviously a worst case scenario, but still..
Just wondering.
good point and cant you just rename it .com if something should happen.
http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=49697.0
Quotegood point and cant you just rename it .com if something should happen.
You've got it backwards. The hosting is the problem, not the domain name.
Sorry to hear this Vertex. I believe you had the best of intentions when you made the new forum. Personally, it makes me happy to see more and more sites dedicated to Freedom Force. But to tell you the truth, I had my doubts as to why another freedom force forum was actually needed. To me, it seemed like it would be dividing the FF community. With the exception of the Thunderdome, the freedom to say almost anything you want (like foul languages) :o, and some adult ( :blink: ) topics (not really a big fan of those 3), content was pretty much similar to the Freedom Force forums here at FR. Nevertheless i still joined, curious to see how different things would be there. I think things were doing pretty ok up until one of the members (or founding members) there decided to attack FR. FR was then forced to temporarily close the Freedom Force forums while deciding what to do next. This was a large blow to the FF community as a whole and well your forum was part of that community.
It's sad. I don't know why IPS decided to resort to that kind of retaliation. I didn't even know he was banned when he stopped posting here at FR. I mean he was still a member there in your new forum, where he could still post his work and have contact with some of the active Freedom Force modding community, I just don't see why he needed to attack FR. He could have just made another identity here in FR right?
Well I think this whole thing has made some if not a majority of us weary. So i guess i could understand what you guys must be going through. Even though i believe we shouldn't let anyone or anything affect us in pursuing our dreams (in your case, meshing would be my guess ), i do believe there's a time to play and there's a time to rest. Do whatever feels right to you sir. I can only wish you the best of luck.
I kinda agree with the mods here. There is really nothing to gain from further personal attacks against one another. (Even against IPS.) I can only hope that IPS realizes that he will only be hurting himself and his friends if he continues in his quest for revenge. :(
Honestly as to why IPS chose to attack FR, I don't think anyone can say for sure but my opinion is that it's all about pay back and hurt. The FF community has always been very much like a family to many including IPS and he's hurt and furious that he was kicked out. I think he expected everyone to rise up and challenge his cause and fight for him to stay a member. I also think he hoped FU would give him a second chance at belonging... but then wasn't satisfied by how well it was doing. I think in a very twisted way he thought attacking FR would gain him two things. He hoped it would take the community out of the Titans hands and also drive people to FU where he would belong again.
IPS just doesn't get you can't force people to accept you, noone likes being pushed in any direction and he's a pusher. I can't claim to understand the type of mentality that feels it's okay to do absolutely anything to do what you think is needed. If he really felt he needed to lash out, (which he didn't) the least he could have done was attack directly those he felt wronged him. However, I think IPS believes we all did in not supporting him and fighting along side him. I disagree with what he did, how he did it, and even why he did it. At this point the guy says he's not a part of this community anymore yet is still launching attack after attack in retaliation for being kicked out, if that doesn't show how blindly he's lashing out.. well I'm not sure anything can convince him to see reason till he gets this out of his system.
QuoteHe could have just made another identity here in FR right?
That's a big no no. Trying to sneak back into FR after being suspended/banned just cements for us your suspension/banning.
We rarely perma-ban anyone. There are people who were banned at one time with full forum access now. The difference is attitude and behavior. If someone is banned but during their time away can prove to us they can be a valuable member of the community and are willing to follow our rules, we are willing to reconsider a ban.
ips had a chance to do just that with Freedom United. Instead he decided to use FU (the irony of those initials are not lost on me) as a platform to attack FR and the entire community.
If IPS does try something, can't the hosts just be notified that its a case of someone who was banned -with exactly why they were banned explained to the hosts - trying to get payback rather than accepting his punishment and moving on? In other words, destroy any credibility he may think he has with them?
Also, would it be possible to add an Ignore function to the board, if there isn't already one?
After reading some of IPS' comments on AA's thread in Freedom United, I can honestly say that IPS appears to be a bit unbalanced/upset/whatever the polite word for "in a weird place, mentally".
I think its a bit much to expect him to act logically, in regards to his intentions towards this forum.
I also read a few comments he'd made about his personal life recently on Freedom United (losing work, getting dumped by his boyfriend), which I personally couldn't really care less about, but may be a contributing factor to his, um, rather obsessive "battle" with the Freedom Reborn forum.
I'm not making excuses for him (never liked the guy) ... but perhaps his harassment of this forum will end once he's sorted himself out IRL.
It's a shame that FU is no more, for the short time I was registered, I thought it was a nice alternative. It was nice to be able to "cut loose" and really express myself. I for one don't think it would have caused a divide within the community, that's an absurd suggestion. It would have been no different to when we had the NPI forum.
Thank you for the effort Vertex, it was very much appreciated.