So, I'm about to get the ball rolling on my next order from loosecollector (yes, I haven't forgotten these, just RL and less money getting in the way). It's going to be a small order this time, with only 3 figures in it: Hitman's because he won the poll, Marauder to round out Influx, and a character some of you might not be familiar with... J'edd J'arkus, a relatively one-note character from the "Crisis on Two Earths" animated film, the Earth 3(is it earth 3 again now? Urgh DC hurts meh)/Antiverse equivalent of Martian Manhunter.
Y'see, among the many fine christmas gifts I recieved this/last year was the Crime Syndicate box set. Now, I'm a sucker for pretty much anything Mirror Mirror/antiverse/Earth 3/whatever (I even did designs waaaay back for an earth 2/3 Titans group back when people still used yahoo groups for that sort of thing) so this set is one of the favorite things I now own. That said, I've always been meh on the fact that the CSA was only ever those five characters... All cracks on Benton aside, there's a reason Aquaman and Martian Manhunter are part of the JLA's big 7. Crisis on Two Earths presented us with a Crime Syndicate that realistically included more than just 5 super-villains, while still maintaining the power of the JL counterparts. So, even if I can only do it on my shelf, I am bloody well rounding out the CSA with the final two Big 7 counterparts.
The major problem with my plan, however, is that the plan rests upon there being legitimate counterparts to both Martian Manhunter and Aquaman... and while Crisis on Two Earths gave a great look at a variety of different antiverse characters, including Boss J'edd J'arkus, Aquaman's counterpart never showed up (this despite Aquaman actually showing up as one of Batman's recruits, GRAH). The ONE canon image I have ever found is of a character called the "Barracuda," who quite frankly looks like a weird cross between Black Manta and Ocean Master, NOT Aquaman's evil counterpart. And before anyone asks, I've even gone to Benton about this... even he was muttering some vague nonsense about MAAAAYBE using the design of Emporer Aquaman, a character I really can't care less about and whose design I really dislike.
So, here's my thought. We have some awesome artists around this place. And instead of some hokey chat or guessing game for the next batch of figures, I'd rather do something more meaningful... so, for the rest of this year, I'm going to open up the floor to every artist here: I need your help to make a proper Earth-3 Aquaman. You can submit drawings, micros, hero creator customs, skins, whatever you want. I will choose whichever design I like best to make it to my shelf... and the winner's current av will also be included in the same batch (unless he's already represented, in which case they can choose someone else's to add).
I won't be resting on my hindquarters either though. I'll be making designs of my own as well, whenever I get the itch... it's unlikely I'll go with them (I'm my own worse critic) but I'm just letting you know up front I'm in this too.
Here's some rough criteria for you guys, just to see what I'm looking for:
-Like most comic book fans, I've always preferred Aquaman's Orange and Green look... and while I won't say keeping to that scheme is 100% necessary, I'm going to be honest up front and say that anything using those colors creatively will probably get much greater preference then half-naked pirate Aquaman or dumb red-black emporer Aquaman.
-In the end, this design has to fit reasonably with the rest of the collection. This isn't a huge problem (the collection will already include J'edd from Crisis; Ultraman, Owlman and Superwoman from Anti-Earth; as well as Power Ring and Johnny Quick from the original Earth 3) but it does mean I don't want to see either overly-pouchy ninties type designs OR more modern "seams=realistic" type designs.
meee likey the challenge.
I'll try my hand at it
Just to get things moving... First, here's a pic of my collection as it currently stands (plus my Aquaman figure, to give you a better idea of what anti-Aquaman would be compared with)
Spoiler
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/847/0000002w.jpg)
And my initial Anti-Aquaman design, dubbed "the Atlantean" temporarily (If anyone has a better name, go right ahead. Barracuda is even workable, though as far as I'm concerned ATM that's anti-Orm)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5936/atlantean.jpg)
i'm absolutely interested, i looove all the things dc earth 3 related :thumbup:.
Sounds cool. I'll think about it & see if I can come up with a design. No promises. :P
the idea behind this concept: are you sure there is atlantis on earth 3?
maybe on earth 3 another race who live under the earth crust have conquered atlantis, in ancient times...
this race (like the ancient romans) have adopted some of the gods and culture of atlantis, so even the tradition of "blonde hairs are no good" so the little Nyro born in a magnificent (lava look like-kingdom) but was quickly abandoned for his hairs, and bla bla bla you know the rest...
but Nyro for this fact have evolved an undomitable rage ...
the humans know him as Flame man (cause he can travel under the earth crust and emerge with a violent fire explosion, sometime in company with strange animals of his realm...)
the "race" physical attributes: they are highly resistant to heat, fire an pressure, they are weak versus cold temperatures, superhuman levels of strenght.
Nyro can of course telepatically comunicate with the creatures who lives under the earth crust.
(http://s7.postimage.org/y0aeth3nb/flame_man.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/y0aeth3nb/)
Quote from: naitvalis on February 20, 2012, 10:30:46 AM
the idea behind this concept: are you sure there is atlantis on earth 3?
maybe on earth 3 another race who live under the earth crust have conquered atlantis, in ancient times...
I think that is an *excellent* idea, and I think it fits in with Earth 3 really well. I'm not completely sold on the costume design, but I think the character design is spot on. The only thing I would tack on to that would maybe be able to have telekinetic control over fire/flames, and to have a higher body temperature, requiring some frequent fire immersion, with a side-effect of his touch/footsteps ignite things that are highly flammable (tissue, dry grass, paper, etc).
well that flame control look obvious...but i think if aquaman don't control water, why flame man must control flame?
the side effect and the recharge thing are both good suggests, i'm glad you have entered in this idea to ;).
for the costume ive tried to resemble some thing from aquaman, and other things from a "dijin", but there always can be retouch if i found the time. but just think to this character emerge from fire with that pose typical of black adam, i think he is cool even in this shape.
Not sure if we should be commenting on the art, but Imma do it anyways. Once again nait, your art is pretty amazing. I love the detail on the face is awesome, and I can definitely see the dijin aspects in there. . Though I am not sold on the colors. The bright yellow on the scale-mail(?) reminds me a bit of a chicken.
:D hehe i know what you mean about colors vamp, well all can i say is i have tried to use the aquaman orange, on the mail, but unfortunately ive used that "dodge" effect to much later (result in a yellow, my bad). so is basically that was an orange on the original concept...
Meeehhhh... I feel like kind of a jerk saying this naitvalis, particularly in light of the fact that I actually really do like the design overall... but quite frankly, I completely disagree with your take on the character.
Firstly, there is CLEARLY an Atlantis in the CSA universe. As I mentioned in my previous post, a character called the Barracuda (who looks a lot like Ocean Master and Black Manta's love child) is shown in one panel (http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/e/ef/Barracuda_Crime_Syndicate_001.jpg) of a Crime Syndicate story in JLA #114, where he's leading an Atlantean army in rebellion against the Crime Syndicate. Now, in my mind, this is actually a Earth 3 Orm, not Arthur Curry(thus why I disregarded it), but it's a pretty clear indication of Atlantis at least existing.
Secondly, in no adaptation I've seen of a Mirrored DC universe (even the bizarre Earth 3 shown in 52) has a character's power been the reverse of his counterpart... In almost every case, the counterpart's abilities have been roughly equivalent to that of their counterpart. Johnny Quick's power, for example, isn't the ability to slow down speedsters, nor is Power Ring's draining energy... Johnny Quick is a speedster and Power Ring uses a cursed ring to make constructs. There are differences to be sure, but never outright reversals.
Thirdly... my own avatar aside, I feel like there are plenty of fire-related characters out there already. Aquaman's one of the few notable water based heroes out there, and it just seems silly to mess with that, at least in my opinion.
Does this mean I dislike the design? No, not at all. Your design evokes imagery of old school Chinese warlords, and I do really like that. Turning Arthur from a benevolent king to a bloodthirsty Warlord is the kind of thing that would indeed happen in a mirrored world. I just don't think reversing his powers is necessary.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/Cyber_Burn_33/CSA_The_Aquatic.jpg)
The Aquatic - Warlord of the 7 seas.
Kind of rough, but I see the CSA's Aquaman as being more of a Warrior/Conquorer more than anything else.
to Tomato: is good to read you like the design overall .
It was just a quick sketch idea (with a minimal background line) wich have fashinated me.
talking more "in general" fire, water, nature or whatever are just inspirations, the character can always be original.
( by the way my colour is green: bla bla bla (that magic the gathering soup :lol:)
So, I was bored, and decided to take a leaf out of Juancho's book and make the next design a micro.
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1025/barracuda.gif)
Here's a new version of the Barracuda (I know I said I feel like the character in JLA was Earth 3 Orm, and that still applies... but Barracuda is as good a name as any until someone can come up with a better one) Also working out a rough history in my head to go along with it, which I'll keep in spoilers (coincidentally, if anyone wants to write up their own ideas for a background, I'd love to hear them) so anyone who doesn't want to read them doesn't have to.
Spoiler
Codename: The Barracuda
Real Name: Arthur Curry
Background: ambiguously foreborn son of Atlantis' former King Arthur and human Atlanna Curry, Arthur's mere existence raised scandal among the royal house of Atlantis. However his blond hair, a rare trait among Atlantians, caused his father great distress. Superstition among the Atlantians had long since associated those with blonde hair of great wisdom and power, but as Arthur was born out of wedlock, he could not become king... not while his half-brother Orm still lived. Nevertheless, the king chose to raise him as though he were his own son.
However, while Orm grew to be an insightful, intelligent leader, Curry quickly became spoiled and viscous. Despite being born outside wedlock, Arthur's blonde hair gave him much more power over the common population then he would have otherwise had. Cruel and cleaver, Curry delighted in tormenting the subjects of Atlantis, often using the abilities gained from the royal bloodline to their most awful effect. Eventually, King Arthur was forced to intervene for the good of the population... but it was too late. Curry used his contacts within Atlantis' criminal network to hire an assassin to murder his father. However, the assassin was careless, and left enough evidence for the murder to be traced back to young Curry.
But when the royal guards, spearheaded by newly-crowned Orm, went to capture Curry, he was able to fight them off and escape. Rechristening himself "Barracuda" to once and for all rid himself of his royal heritage, Curry was able to claim power over Atlantis' underworld by leveraging his connection to the surface world, trading unique goods and services to the Crime Syndicate in exchange for their support.
the idea behind this concept: was to create a spooky creature of the sea, an implacabile preadator of the abyss.
so just to suggest even anothor perspective for this "aquaman", here is Maelstrom:
like the "real aquaman, Maestrom was rised by the creatures of the sea, but not from dolphins, he learned the life of the sharks...
in time he became a dark predator of the deep.
(generally Maelstrom not talk, but his telepatics powers are much stronger then aquaman, he can "influence" even the humans to understand his will.)
(http://s16.postimage.org/z5keuav8x/maelstrom.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/z5keuav8x/)
black and orange version.
(http://s18.postimage.org/g6hzl5jgl/maelstrom_black.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/g6hzl5jgl/)
I always thought barracuda was Aquaman's counterpart.... coulda sworn I read some backstory somewhere to do with his dad doing tests on him and him growing up in atlantis.... tho my brain might just be fried, and all my comics are in storage from before I moved...
(so people can see barracuda from the comic -> http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110823071458/marvel_dc/images/e/ef/Barracuda_Crime_Syndicate_001.jpg (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110823071458/marvel_dc/images/e/ef/Barracuda_Crime_Syndicate_001.jpg) )
Quote from: UnfluffyBunny on February 25, 2012, 11:57:08 PM
I always thought barracuda was Aquaman's counterpart.... coulda sworn I read some backstory somewhere to do with his dad doing tests on him and him growing up in atlantis.... tho my brain might just be fried, and all my comics are in storage from before I moved...
(so people can see barracuda from the comic -> http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110823071458/marvel_dc/images/e/ef/Barracuda_Crime_Syndicate_001.jpg (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110823071458/marvel_dc/images/e/ef/Barracuda_Crime_Syndicate_001.jpg) )
*cough*
Quote from: Tomato on February 19, 2012, 10:55:34 PM
The ONE canon image I have ever found is of a character called the "Barracuda," who quite frankly looks like a weird cross between Black Manta and Ocean Master, NOT Aquaman's evil counterpart. And before anyone asks, I've even gone to Benton about this... even he was muttering some vague nonsense about MAAAAYBE using the design of Emporer Aquaman, a character I really can't care less about and whose design I really dislike.
Quote from: Tomato on February 20, 2012, 11:14:22 PM
Firstly, there is CLEARLY an Atlantis in the CSA universe. As I mentioned in my previous post, a character called the Barracuda (who looks a lot like Ocean Master and Black Manta's love child) is shown in one panel (http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/e/ef/Barracuda_Crime_Syndicate_001.jpg) of a Crime Syndicate story in JLA #114, where he's leading an Atlantean army in rebellion against the Crime Syndicate. Now, in my mind, this is actually a Earth 3 Orm, not Arthur Curry(thus why I disregarded it), but it's a pretty clear indication of Atlantis at least existing.
The truth is, there are VERY few canon crime syndicate stories out there, and of those, only about 2 or 3 are worth the pages they're printed on (Morrison's being the gold standard, but "Syndicate Rules" was pretty decent too). Add to that the fact that there were at least 3 different versions of the CSA (Pre crisis, Antimatter, post Infinate Crisis, and potentially a new one now that the new 52's branching out into multiverses again) and you can see why much of it is open to interpretation. That said, the panel you showed is the ONE image I've ever been able to find that's potentially a canon CSA Aquaman, and it is VERY ambiguous. Having literally
just re-read the story it comes from, I'm pretty sure it's left that way on purpose... the story exists to open the CSA to further stories (which is kinda sad since the only story to include them since was so very very bad...) so they throw out a lot of stuff at the end for other writers to potentially move forward with.
Either way though, the design is fugly and boring, and I refuse to use it, regardless of how "canon" it is.
i like that new Barracuda design Tomato, there is a chance you skin for :ff: whatever character emerge from this ?
Potentially? I'm not going to say it won't ever happen, but I'd almost be required to skin the entire CSA first (Including J'edd) and my track record towards finishing projects... not so fantastic
I've got a bit of a "rant" that's going to be spewing forth in a minute or so, but before I get into that, quick update: During my weekend shopping excursion thing TRU had some of the older DCUC two packs on clearance, so I took the opportunity to get better versions of GL and Aquaman. It's not a huge deal here since Loosecollector would be doing the final paint apps anyway, but it does mean the Aquaman he'll ("he" being whatever version of CSA Aquaman ends up winning) be facing off against has a proper orange shirt now, not the ZOMG GOLD one I showed before.
Spoiler
OK, so on top of looking at the designs you all have been doing and bashing my own head against the wall trying to design a semi-decent version (I'm okay with the one I microed for the moment, but I'm torn between it and Cyber's design and I'm still very open to something that looks better), I've also been scouring the net trying to find a fan design that works as well. My search on that end has been... disappointing. I'm not trying to be nasty, but the worst of the designs in this thread could be half as good as it is and
still be more appealing than most of the designs I've found elsewhere.
That said, I wanted to take the time and address some of the issues I have with those designs so that I don't have to deal with similar nonsense here.
-The Iron Aquaman-
This isn't the worst mistake I've seen per se, but it seems to happen more often so I'll address it first. Unlike Cyber's design, which strikes a good balance between having a guy who wears a bit of armor because he's a warrior, many of the "Barracuda" designs seem to take their cue from the worst Aquaman designs in the comics... overly busy designs with unnescessary lines and details that are intended to indicate some mystical Atlantis technology, but that just look goofy.
-Flashpoint Aquaman Knockoffs-
This is perhaps the most irksome for me personally... I've said before that I really dislike Flashpoint Aquaman's design. This s because, instead of trying to come up with an interesting design that makes Aquaman more menacing, they basically gave him a palette swap. Now, I'm not one to bash characters with Black and Red costumes *significant look at his av* but Aquaman is the only hero I can think of who can get away with an Orange-Gold-Green color set. Instead of faking a more "evil" Aquaman by making him red/black, I'd rather see someone use his existing palette creatively.
-Merma... I mean, "Aquaman"-
As I mentioned above, I recently bought one of the Mattel two packs because the version of Aquaman it had was superior to the one I was using. This pack had Arthur facing off against "Merman," one of Skeletor's cronies... ironic to me because many of the designs for CSA Aquaman seem determined to turn Aquaman into a clone/variation of Merman. As I've mentioned, the existing CSA may have minor differences from their counterparts, but they are pretty similar in most respects. None of the Atlanteans have ever been depicted as crazy semi-fish people (the only thing even remotely close was a period where Manta was a sharkish thing, but the less said about that the better) so there'd be no legitimate reason for Arthur to be.
it's not that I misread about barracuda, I think it's more that I misunderstood :P
unfortunately now this whole CSA aquaman thing has been stuck in my head, so I began blocking out a design, and it's in early stages >.>
Spoiler
my thinking is based around him being the king of atlantis, if he's a bad guy he's going to be more of a tyrant that got the crown by killing off his opposition, rules with fear, possibly slavery.
directly, i'm aiming at a warrior, my brain keeps going to roman gladiator, so he'd be wielding the trident with his right, and swinging with both, so I moved towards a buckler for his left forearm, if you're going to be in close fighting with any pole style weapon there's no reason not to use one >.>
secondary defense would be with the right arm forward, so I went for a single arm in scalemail, again, roman gladiator influence, so I added the closeform shoulder armor and the gladiator style chest straps, I will probably be adding a gauntlet, or atleast a bracer and hand guard of some sort to the design of this arm.
with the defense mostly covered secondary thoughts fall to manouverability, especially underwater, so I left the left side bare, and aim to kee the rest of the costume as bodyformed as possible, I "decorated" the left arm with some tattoo effect, possibly atlantean runes or prayers, or scenes depicting his victories.
I almost want to go for a uniform look with the body of the costume, tho i'm really unsettled on it at this point, I was feeling the regular aquaman belt shape, but with the triangular shape formed into an "A" (incoming tangent again)
I felt the name "Atlas" would serve well as an adopted name, as it's the name of the first king of atlantis in mythology (one of poseidon's sons)
the legs are lacking as of yet, I was debating between boots, greaves or an almost scale sort of layed armor up the foot > shins.
keeping in with the streamlined thing, shaved head and face, probably adorned by scars, I was thinking some kind of gold circlet to emphasize the king of atlantis thing.
anyway, babbling on, that's the large parts of the design in my head so far, probably missed some points but i'll be revisiting this, i'm planning on finalizing this onto a skin once the design is down, even if you hate it :P
here's the crappy block out image as this stage, ignore the crappyness, this is just me getting ideas out before comitting to trying to skope something together :P:
(http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx264/synthos84/aquamanredblocking.jpg)
Now you know how I feel. I've had this buzzing in my brain since I got the CSA 5-pack at Christmas.
I like the design so far actually. It kind of builds on what I liked about CB's design, but it's still not as busy as some of the other designs I've been running across. I could totally see "Atlas" as being Aquaman's CSA counterpart. I might suggest a few things later on, but I'll wait until you've wrapped your head around the design before I make them.
I also want to comment (mostly because I feel like I unintentionally ignored it, which wasn't my intent) on nait's second design. I love some of the ideas you brought up about his background and powers (particularly the idea of his telepathy being able to "speak" to others... if he can do that, then perhaps he could put it to more nefarious means? ;) ) but the design... it's not "bad" (Trust me, you have not seen bad until you have attempted to look at other fan designs for this character. UGH!) but I think my biggest problem with it is that other then the cape and cowl (the mask is very nifty btw) the design is almost too close to Aquaman's. In a way, it's the reverse of the first one... with that one I liked the costume but could have done without the powerset, this one has s cool background and interesting powers but has a blah design from the neck down.
here is another design for maelstrom, i taked note about his costume and mask, so i preserved only the mask and the cape.
i think this one is pretty cool, if i can say such thing for my own work hehe.
(there is some space on the right for an eventual detailed background.)
(http://s18.postimage.org/obwx2rtud/maelstrom_colour.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/obwx2rtud/)
Alright folks, I suppose that my comments here are long overdue. As I told Tomato when he messaged me, asking for my thoughts, I discovered this thread recently and immediately tried to design an appropriate costume for Aquaman's evil twin. However, I am simply not someone who is visually creative. Even using Champion's Online as an artistic crutch, I couldn't quite come up with anything decent, and certainly not anything like the caliber of the excellent designs here. I've been putting off commenting until I had more of substance to offer, but I suppose I can at least add my thoughts, such as they are, on the designs already in evidence here.
First off, let me say that this thread is really a great idea. If anyone can design a good identity and look for the CSA Aquaman, it's the folks in this community. I agree with 'Mato that his Flashpoint redesign leaves a lot to be desired, as does the one canon appearance of "Barracuda." I'm sure the FR community can do much better. I remember the response I got for my CSA design contest for the DCUG. It was fantastic, and FR came up with some really amazing designs, many of which actually show up in my JLA/JSA/CSA crossover campaign. I'm really impressed with what y'all have come up with so far. I think the discussion about the nature of the character himself is particularly interesting, so before I address individual designs, let me comment on that.
The CSA characters are all inversions of their heroic alter-egos, right? The selfless and heroic Superman is a selfish low-brow thug. The good hearted, down to earth Barry Allen is a drug-addict obsessed with his next fix. It's not necessarily a 1:1 correlation, but there is a certain sense to it. I think that the same should, obviously, be true of the CSA Aquaman, and Aquaman is defined by his relationship to the two worlds of which he's a part. We know what the CSA surface world is like, chaotic, splintered, self-ish, and utterly beaten down. The underwater world needs to be defined to define Aquaman. It makes sense to me that the ideas many of y'all have already brought up for Atlantis would fit perfectly. The original Atlantis is an advanced, peaceful society based on ancient Athens and Greece at large. It seems to me that the logical inversion here would replace the Athenian model with Sparta, or perhaps Rome. Either way, they'd be militarisitc empire builders.
So, the adventurer/hero/unwilling king that is Aquaman would, in turn, become a powerful but vicious conqueror, after power and domination above all else. He's a tyrant, an emperor who gains glory and holds power only so long as he continues to win victories and bring in wealth and influence for his people. It's Rome at its worst, but a Rome mixed with the Germanic culture that replaced it, so the leaders must constantly prove their strength and "heroism" in battle. I like the idea that our evil Aquaman has struck a deal with the CSA, an uneasy balance of power. He's got the oceans, they've got the land. They work together purely to maintain their dominion over Earth.
All of these things being given, our Aqua-doppleganger, or Aquaganger ( :P), would then be more warrior and king than hero. Still, 'Mato's right, and the other CSA characters have relatively small changes to their costumes. Superman and Ultraman look very similar at first glance, and that's true of most of the others. The trouble is that Aquaman's costume is SOO distinct that it's tough to switch it around and end up with something that works. That was my problem. The color scheme has a hard time looking evil. Y'all have done a great job working around that, though. I think the route many of y'all have taken, with a Roman/gladiator-esq style is the right way to go. I'm going to try to revisit my own poor design tonight, inspired by y'all's efforts.
Anyway, I've got to run, but I'll be posting my thoughts on the individual designs a bit later on, in case y'all are interested. I hope these thoughts of mine have been helpful!
See, it's more that sort of stuff which I PMed you about... You may not be the more artistic of people, but you understand the Aquaman character in a way none of the rest of us really do. We could be sitting here working on designs until our brains turn to mush, but without getting at least a passing understanding of what his background should be, all we're really doing is shooting spitballs through a straw at the wall hoping to make an interesting splat.
That said, as I wrote in my little quasi bio, I like the idea that even if he is ruler of Atlantis, he's not a legitimate king... To put it bluntly, I like the idea that this version of Aquaman is
literally a b@$7@rd. Granted, he's technically one in the mainstream U as well (depending on the origin DC's using this week) but I think in this case it works as a driving force... where our Arthur accepts it as an accident of birth, for CSA's Atlas (I've taken a liking to that moniker, sue me) it's a driving force. He feels like he's defined by his parentage, and so is more ruthless and demanding then he might have been otherwise.
Oh, BTW, I was reading through some more CSA comics (they apparently appeared quite heavily in one of DC's other 52-esque books, one called "Trinity"... to be honest, I'd never really heard about it until this whole obsession) and I found another Barracuda one panel wonder, this time with a completely different costume:
Spoiler
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5299/barracudae.jpg)
Now, as with the last "official" design, this one is just kinda bad (wtf kind of mask is that!?!) but I thought I'd mention it now that I've run across the panel. To be fair, if I'd come across it to begin with I might have adapted it into something more manageable for the sake of a "canon" Arthur... but really, I like all the designs here better at this point, so I'm just as happy to ignore it exists.
Kind of bad... nah...horrendous...yes.
My final version of the Aquatic:
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/Cyber_Burn_33/CSA_The_Aquatic_Final.jpg)
Yes, it really is... but take away the mask and whatever those things are under his arms (I STILL don't understand what they're supposed to be, and I've been staring at them since I came across the panel.) and make the red areas green... it's at least passable. There really wasn't enough to the all-black barracuda to build from, whereas this one, for all the bizarreness, has some interesting, if lackluster, segments buried underneath. But again, it's a moot idea since you've all kicked it's butt anyway.
Edit: I think I'm going to have to cut back on my commentary as far as the designs go... I feel like we've kind of reached the point where all the designs you guys are making are good, but it's just a personal preference kind of thing. Since I don't really feel comfortable saying "I like X over Y because... reasons?" or whatever, unless there's something legitimate I can add to one design or another (like "hey, that could use gloves" or "belt symbols would be cool", etc.) I'm just going to keep my vague unreasoning opinions to myself. I will however, be more than happy to discuss backgrounds and histories for the character... because I am a total nerd like that :P
I kind of dig this Alex Ross armor...
http://clonesparadise.blogspot.com/2008/01/dc-direct-need-list-part-1.html
But, also...
That image of "Barracuda" and your insistence that he is actually Ocean Master keeps making me think of something.
What if Ocean Master is the king of Atlantis? The rightful king, and he's a good king and people love him.
And Aquaman is a guy who wants to be king and tries to take over? Or is a wandering terrible nomad.
Of course that goes against the same people winning and losing the battles, just on opposite teams, so maybe nevermind. Ocean Master can still be a rebel with rebel forces, who fight for good but always lose.
This is a terrible description of what I am thinking about, but I am at work and have to go.
Quote from: UnkoMan on February 29, 2012, 02:10:35 AM
Ocean Master can still be a rebel with rebel forces, who fight for good but always lose.
I'd venture this would be the way they'd go if they did a storyline, a whole freedom fighters vibe would give it the full spin you'd expect
I agree 'Mato, the CSA Aquaman would really NOT be the legitimate king, as that is Arthur's role. Arthur fits the archetype of the lost prince. It's one of his defining characteristics, the heroic youth who turns out to be royalty. I think his doppelganger would undoubtedly have to be a usurper, by one method or another. I think that the world of the CSA is one in which the family unit would be even more rare than ours, thus the idea of an illegitimate claimant to the throne would make sense. I definitely like the idea that HE is the less favored son. Perhaps he's the second born, more likely, he's simply illegitimate. Either way, he deposes the rightful king, Orm, and takes over. Tom Curry, Arthur's human father, was a decent, principled, and honest man that taught his son what it was to be a hero. What if, instead of a lighthouse keeper, our alterna-Arthur's father might be a pirate, a thief, selfish and cruel where his double was altruistic and kind. Think of the lessons THAT Tom Curry would teach his son. I definitely see this Aquaganger as ending up somewhat similar to Attuma in Marvel. He's Siegfried more than Aeneas, no doubt; a barbarian.
Unko, I think you've got it there. Orm would be fighting the good fight, but always being repulsed, unable to unseat his tyrannical brother.
Alright gents, it's taken me a bit of time, but here are my comments on the individual designs previewed so far.
The Atlantean:
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5936/atlantean.jpg)
[/quote]
I like this design, 'Mato. In many ways, this is the design here that fits best in the company of the CSA. He's got that simple, sleek, classical superhero costume. He's got Arthur's basic color-scheme, and he's got a few touches that show him as more militaristic and vicious than Aquaman. I think a lighter/brighter green would work better, though. I see what you're going for, but you lose that clear connection to the other CSA members when the shades of his colors are so far off from the original. Despite the fact that he seems most like one of the CSA members, I do think there is something missing, but I'm not really sure what it is. I suppose the costume doesn't give us that many more clues in how he differs from Aquaman. However, as I said earlier, the other CSA members don't. I think we're all wanting something from the Aquaganger that we really don't have with the others, and that's probably because Aquaman's costume is so very, very distinctive.
Nyro:
(http://s7.postimage.org/y0aeth3nb/flame_man.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/y0aeth3nb/)
I love this design, just love it. I love the idea of a firey character, and I love the Hun-ish, Mongol-ish elements of his costume. However, I think that this is more like another alternate Earth Aquaman than the CSA version, because the CSA figures usually have the same power sets. Despite that, I love this design, and it seems to beg for a story to be told about it.
Maelstrom:
(http://s16.postimage.org/z5keuav8x/maelstrom.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/z5keuav8x/)
This is probably my favorite design, taken purely for the design, of everything in this thread. This is soooo cool! I think it's probably a bit too far off of Aquaman's design to fit in easily with the CSA, but it's so neat that I could probably get around that. I like the idea that, instead of the defender of the oceans, Aquaganger is a monster from the depths! I will say that Aquaman's scaley shirt is probably too jarring to go with the rest of the design. Perhaps a darker, more reddish gold might work? Also, just to take this in a different direction, this looks the beginning to a really awesome design for an Aquaman villain. I think you addressed all of these things really well in your redesign:
(http://s18.postimage.org/obwx2rtud/maelstrom_colour.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/obwx2rtud/)
Quite excellent! I do have to say, though, Maelstrom is probably my favorite name so far.
Atlas:
(http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx264/synthos84/aquamanredblocking.jpg)
This is my favorite overall design for an Aquaganger, though the next one is a very close second. I'm sure when Syn finishes it the rough edges will be polished to brilliance, but even unfinished I very much like what he's doing. The streamlined, modern approach to a Roman gladiator is something that I've been trying and failing to capture in Champions in my own ill-fated designs, but this does it quite well. This character is easily recognizable as Aquaman, the armor gives him that barbaric, militaristic look he needs, and his color-scheme is intact. It's an excellent way to solve the problems of this design. I think maybe gloves might help complete it somewhat, though. Ohh, and the tattoos should totally glow, like the new Aqualad's.
The Aquatic:
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/Cyber_Burn_33/CSA_The_Aquatic_Final.jpg)
[/quote]
My second favorite design for Aquaganger, I think the helmet, a nice blend between Roman and Aquatic themes is excellent. Maybe some stylized shells or something on the ears would complete that. I like the slight touches of armor, and the clear connection to Aquaman's costume. I'm especially impressed with the shirt. I didn't think that a green version of his armored shirt would work, but you made it look very nice. I think the only real problem is the coloring for his boots and pants. Perhaps a richer, more reddish orange might work better, instead of the dusty color you've got.
Well folks, I hope that was interesting and/or helpful.
:EDIT: Alright, finished.
Quote from: BentonGrey on March 01, 2012, 10:21:06 PM
Well folks, I hope that was interesting and/or helpful.
:EDIT: Alright, finished.
Quote from: Tomato on February 25, 2012, 10:22:00 PM
So, I was bored, and decided to take a leaf out of Juancho's book and make the next design a micro.
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1025/barracuda.gif)
Lol nope.
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(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/Cyber_Burn_33/CSA_The_Aquatic_V5.jpg)
Taking Benton's advice into effect.
many thanks for your positive feedbacks on this characters concepts Benton ^_^.
Quote from: Tomato on March 01, 2012, 11:58:38 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on March 01, 2012, 10:21:06 PM
Well folks, I hope that was interesting and/or helpful.
:EDIT: Alright, finished.
Quote from: Tomato on February 25, 2012, 10:22:00 PM
So, I was bored, and decided to take a leaf out of Juancho's book and make the next design a micro.
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1025/barracuda.gif)
Lol nope.
Well, that one was terrible, I was just ignoring it.
Ha, just kidding. Yeah, that one has the same strengths as your first design, 'Mato. He's easily recognizable, has the smooth, clean costume design of the other CSA members, and the same color-scheme as Arthur. I also liked your history for him. It's a good design, and once again, I think he fits the CSA very well. However, he's lacking that je ne sais pas that really says "evil Aquaman."
CB, I think that looks better!
Great thread.
Like Benton, I always saw Artie like the noble, true king (he's King Arthur, after all), the guy that leads by example an tries to help his subjects. So, his counterpart should be an usurper, a guy who uses people to get his goals. So, please welcome Mordred, The Usurper.
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/064/f/c/mordred__the_usurper__by_kevmann-d4rt081.jpg)
Be the prince of the powerful Kingdom of Atlantis would be considered something great to most people, but not to Mordred. The second child of the legendary conqueror who unified the atlantean cities by war, he was always in his brother's shadow. Mordred trained, to become stronger and a fitful heir, but he never could be so strong or vicious like his older brother. Since he couldn't get the throne by the rightful way, he just tried to get it by force. Defeated Mordred was exiled and became just an outcast. Undaunted, he traveled the world searching for power. He became stronger and learned the dark ways of magic. He gave an eye and the lives of several followers to get more and more power...So he could return to Atlantis and finally get the throne.
In one of his travels, Mordred met the CSA and saw how powerful they were. He joined their ranks, scheming how they could be used to help him to get his goals.
Mordred demands to be called "The Aquamaster, Sovereign of th Seas", but he always will be Mordred, the Outcast.
BTW, I just loved Cyber's warrior like version, great concept.
welcome Mordred :thumbup:
nice one Jhon! i like the character and his background, its simple and effective.
if i can express a little suggest, i would love to see this Aquamaster with a body full of scars, this can give to him even more "evil look".
Thanks.
I gave him a lot of scars in the body and arms, but they're not very visible in the image. I wanted to show how our scheming outcast isn't afraid of a fight.
Quickie update: LC and I finally managed to stop playing email tag long enough to get the latest batch of figures ordered and on its way, including J'edd J'arkus. It'll probably be 4-5 months before the batch finishes (normally I expect about a year, but it's only 3 this time around.), but I'm making my decision on Aquaganger when the figures are shipped, so... the countdown begins?
..... I just started working on mine yesterday, but I was disgusted by how it was turning out, so I have to re-start.....
Quote from: naitvalis on March 04, 2012, 07:29:58 PM
welcome Mordred :thumbup:
nice one Jhon! i like the character and his background, its simple and effective.
if i can express a little suggest, i would love to see this Aquamaster with a body full of scars, this can give to him even more "evil look".
I gotta agree about the battle scars, he looks to pleasant (?) to be evil. Also, maybe give him a more viable weapon? Otherwise, looks great.
Mato buddy, my pc crashed and I i think I lost everything. I have a few back ups here and there, but not sure what I'm going to be able to salvage. So do not count with an entry from me. Sorry
I have a laptop at home as well as my Android tablet but I do not have any of my resoruces there :S
Quote from: Cyber Burn on March 06, 2012, 03:51:05 AM
Quote from: naitvalis on March 04, 2012, 07:29:58 PM
welcome Mordred :thumbup:
nice one Jhon! i like the character and his background, its simple and effective.
if i can express a little suggest, i would love to see this Aquamaster with a body full of scars, this can give to him even more "evil look".
I gotta agree about the battle scars, he looks to pleasant (?) to be evil. Also, maybe give him a more viable weapon? Otherwise, looks great.
I didn't wanted Mordred to have an "evil look" , CB, because I like the way the CSA guys look like the JLA with different clothes (I think this was even used in a story years ago...), so Mordred looks a little as Arthur. I'll work in more visible battle scars though.
The mystic thing in his hand is only to show he doesn't have a trident like Artie, because he never got to be a king. Since Artie was called to be king (so it was "easy"), I imagined Mordred would never get the throne.
Quote from: juancho on March 06, 2012, 09:30:12 AM
Mato buddy, my pc crashed and I i think I lost everything. I have a few back ups here and there, but not sure what I'm going to be able to salvage. So do not count with an entry from me. Sorry
I have a laptop at home as well as my Android tablet but I do not have any of my resoruces there :S
dude, you have like, half a year. chillax.
As requested, battle scarred Mordred:
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/066/8/4/mordred_close_by_kevmann-d4s1e5t.jpg)
What's about the eye?
Arthur lost a hand in the "let's make Artie's life miserable!" era, some time later he traded his fashionable hook by a mystic water hand. Once again, he was chosen to receive a great power.
Mordred never was chosen, he just took over whatever he wanted. He gave his eye (and the lives of some subjects) to get a mystical artifact that gave him control over marine life. He didn't born with the power, he got it by treason. He doesn't talk to or commands the marine life, he just control them like puppets. He usually uses them as cannon fodder.
He's no Aquaman...
Quote from: juancho on March 06, 2012, 09:30:12 AM
Mato buddy, my pc crashed and I i think I lost everything. I have a few back ups here and there, but not sure what I'm going to be able to salvage. So do not count with an entry from me. Sorry
I have a laptop at home as well as my Android tablet but I do not have any of my resoruces there :S
I'm sorry to hear it, Juancho. I'm still trying to recover my last pc crash. I wish you the best luck with the recovery!
Quote from: John Jr. on March 06, 2012, 10:03:12 PM
As requested, battle scarred Mordred:
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/066/8/4/mordred_close_by_kevmann-d4s1e5t.jpg)
What's about the eye?
Arthur lost a hand in the "let's make Artie's life miserable!" era, some time later he traded his fashionable hook by a mystic water hand. Once again, he was chosen to receive a great power.
Mordred never was chosen, he just took over what he wanted. He gave his eye (and the lives of some subjects) to get a mystical artifact that gave him control over marine life. He doesn't born with the power, he got him by treason. He doesn't talk to or commands the marine life, he just control them like puppets. He usually uses them as cannon fodder.
He's no Aquaman...
Battle scars work for him. I like your version better than mine :D , maybe a combonation of the two would work?
Quote from: Cyber Burn on March 07, 2012, 01:44:09 AM
Battle scars work for him. I like your version better than mine :D , maybe a combonation of the two would work?
That's funny, because your version is still my favorite :)
A combo could work, because we both used a militaristic- barbarian take on our "CSA Aquaman".
Quote from: John Jr. on March 07, 2012, 02:34:15 AM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on March 07, 2012, 01:44:09 AM
Battle scars work for him. I like your version better than mine :D , maybe a combonation of the two would work?
That's funny, because your version is still my favorite :)
Heh, wanna know something even funnier? I hate both versions :angry:
lol, just jking guys.
I gotta say though, while I like some of the thought process here John, I agree with some of the others in here... there's just something missing on this design to really make it stand out as a true antiverse Aquaman. I think the main problem for me is that I look at the first image and I can totally see it being an alternate Aquaman design taken from one of his old books. It just needs a few more intimidating design elements to push it over the edge into "Evil"
Quote from: Tomato on March 07, 2012, 03:23:07 AM
Quote from: John Jr. on March 07, 2012, 02:34:15 AM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on March 07, 2012, 01:44:09 AM
Battle scars work for him. I like your version better than mine :D , maybe a combonation of the two would work?
That's funny, because your version is still my favorite :)
Heh, wanna know something even funnier? I hate both versions :angry:
lol, just jking guys.
I gotta say though, while I like some of the thought process here John, I agree with some of the others in here... there's just something missing on this design to really make it stand out as a true antiverse Aquaman. I think the main problem for me is that I look at the first image and I can totally see it being an alternate Aquaman design taken from one of his old books. It just needs a few more intimidating design elements to push it over the edge into "Evil"
I know! I know! I'll give him a hook and...Wait a minute!
I still think guys like Ultraman and Superwoman don't like intimidating or evil, they look like Superman and Wonder Woman with different costumes. But could be fun to try another design, what you suggest? I agree with one of your earlier posts against giving "Aquaganger" a monstrous/weird appearance. I tried to give Mordred a barbarian warrior look against Arthur's noble king one. Maybe more armor pieces or a weapon? I just wanted to avoid armor since he's a swimmer, but I can try it.
Costume design is far from my strong point anyway...
Hey, great designs guys! I love the name Mordred and the King Arthur element. JJ is right, and this is what I've been talking about. What fits in with the CSA setting isn't necessarily what "feels" right to us. These clean designs don't really look evil, although the scars help. Then again, Ultraman doesn't really look evil. Super-Woman does, but that's about it. Anyway, JJ sorta' hinted at this, but these designs reminded me that the perfect design for an evil Aquaman has already been created! If you want a true Aquaganger, look no further than.......
Hook-handed Aquaman!
http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/b/b8/Aquaman_Vol_5_17.jpg
Look, he's even fighting a disturbingly muscular Wonder Woman!
http://www.comicbookbin.com/artman2/uploads/8/aquaman16.jpg
Haha, if this ugliness hadn't already been in the real comics, it would work pretty well as an alternate design...though in terms of the design in general, y'all have all blown this sucker away.
Even so, the designs the characters use are distinctly their own... You don't expect Superman to run around in a full bodysuit with gloves or Batman to run around with tassels on his back. There's not enough unique to this look for me to be able to distinguish it.
Honestly, my suggestion would be to find ways to emphasize his background as a sorcerer, as opposed to making him a warrior like Cyber and Syn have. It sets your design apart from what's been done so far, but remains true to the character you've created.
Edit: As to hooked Aquaman... You should know I seriously considered using a variant of it for Aquaganger... but then I decided it didn't even look enough like Aquaman for that.
Quote from: Tomato on March 07, 2012, 05:13:07 AM
Honestly, my suggestion would be to find ways to emphasize his background as a sorcerer, as opposed to making him a warrior like Cyber and Syn have. It sets your design apart from what's been done so far, but remains true to the character you've created.
I've been contemplating something similar to this, and what JJ has done, but haven't had the time to devote to fleshing it out. I was looking at going further back, possibly somehow linking him to Arion or perhaps his brother Garn (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Garn_Daanuth_(New_Earth)). Maybe giving him a complexion like that of Garn, with the scars, mystic tattoos and missing eye (perhaps replaced with an artifact, ala Moorcock's Corum), maybe having something in his history about him sacrificing his son to get more of this power (not that there's much that adds to the visual design, but I know it covers one of BG's pet peeves). Feel free to incorporate, as illustration is not a skill I possess, unless ya want stick figures.
Benton,
I'm very glad you liked Mordred, buddy. We have similar opinions on the subject of the look of an "Aquaganger", not surprising, since we have similar tastes.
Tomato,
While I'm kinda of satisfied with Mordred's look, I'm kinda of intrigued with your suggestions. I thought about two "alternate versions", one with a sorcerer look (and like Panther I thought about mystical symbols as tattoos, since it would be weird have a cloaked/hooded guy swimming in the deep), and other with a more "barbarian" look (I'm looking for a face concealing helmet, like Perez used with Ares in the 80's Wonder Woman).
Panther,
I agree with the tattoos idea and the Garn/Arion angle is a great idea.
This topic is becoming more interesting with each post...
Haha, this is some good stuff here in the last few posts. 'Mato, yeah, I know exactly what you mean about the 90's design.
PG, that sounds pretty cool, and I LOVE the bit about him sacrificing his son for more power. That's something truly opposite of Arthur. Seeing as this is what SHOULD have happened in the comics:
http://youtu.be/B8m6WxvZHmo
A twist like PG describes would really capture the opposite of the heroic spirit of Aquaman.
JJ, I like the idea of a helmet to go with it, and yeah, some tattoos would be neat. What if we play up the barbarian/Roman(or Greek) thing, maybe do something slightly Pictish? Perhaps that would be going too far afield, but maybe not.
It's weird... I didn't mind it back during Morrison's JLA run (to be fair, I was what, 10 when I first read the graphic novels?), but looking back I'm just like "wtf is that noise?" Aquaman's look, for all the complaining about orange and green, is iconic and unique. At least the design in JL/JLU strikes a balance between the old look and the silliness of the comic look.
Well, generally the art was better during Morrison's run, and even that design doesn't look as bad when it isn't covered in 90's stink.
All I can say is it looks like John Jr's been practicing on his Poser work...looking great, man!!!
Thanks, DJ! Yeah, I'm have been practicing a lot, and following your advice about camera and lighting.
I had no time to finish the "Alternate Mordred", I hope to be able to finish him in the next days.
Looks great John, great work on Poser. Good to see the progression you made on the character.
Quote from: martialstorm on March 24, 2012, 01:21:51 AM
Looks great John, great work on Poser. Good to see the progression you made on the character.
Thanks!
I followed Benton's suggestion and made "Mordred the Barbarian". Next is Mordred the Wizard...
I didn't wanted a realist helmet that could looked like something by "A" or "B" people, so I got this one, the author (I have to find the Read Me and his name) was inspired by Frank Frazetta.
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/088/1/2/barbarian_mordred_by_kevmann-d4ucwge.jpg)
As I've stated before, I'm really trying to keep most of my commentary out of this thread from now on (good and bad mind you), mostly because I felt like I was limiting the creativity by doing so. However, two things really nagged at me on an artistic level, and I'd be doing a disservice to John if I didn't mention them.
-This first one is something that's plagued both designs, but it's more noticeable with this one because of the new belt and helmet... that bare chest on Mordred just isn't visually interesting. In my mind, it's almost like a black hole or something... there's visually interesting bits of design work here, but it all just COMPLETELY STOPS with the bare chest. It wasn't a huge deal with the last design because, in the end, that design had more of a less-is-more look. But here it just looks like something was removed from the design.
Really, there's any number of things you could do to fix that... give him some kind of mystical looking vest, some goofy magical shoulderpads, a physics breaking collar (possibly with cape), whatever. On a purely if-it-were-me level, I'd actually keep the bare chest, but give him tattoos (either arcane symbols or something like the eels YJ's Aqualad has). Just play around with it, see what suits you best.
-The belt... I can understand why you went with it, but it is so obviously from a version of Thor that it hurts meh.
Just a matter of different points of view. I don't like the idea of cape/cloak/armor in a underwater character, just a quirk of mine. Similarly, I believe the bare chest works in a barbarian/underwater guy. The belt would be better if I could find a more generic one, but I can't make 3D items, just textures...So I used the one I found with minor edits.
Hey, very nice JJ! I like that helmet, and it definitely captures the "Aquaman the Barbarian" idea. I understand your thinking on cloaks/armor. I do think that tattoos would be interesting. That might help lend him an even more savage appearance. I like this design, though.
DJ! Are we ever going to see a finished version of your earlier draft?
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 03, 2012, 10:14:11 PM
Hey, very nice JJ! I like that helmet, and it definitely captures the "Aquaman the Barbarian" idea. I understand your thinking on cloaks/armor. I do think that tattoos would be interesting. That might help lend him an even more savage appearance. I like this design, though.
DJ! Are we ever going to see a finished version of your earlier draft?
I never posted a draft or such in this thread or any threes for that matter...jeez,Benton what have you got against me lately?
Haha, whoops! Sorry DJ, that was UB. My mistake!
Syn mentioned something about being sick like, a month ago, then vanished. Obviously he died from swine flu.
Hmm...more likely Murs gave him the pox.
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 10, 2012, 01:44:35 AM
Hmm...more likely Murs gave him the pox.
Who let Murs out of his cage??? :P
Hey, it's not MY fault he was able to chew through the bars while I was distracted by Ponies. Ya'll should have scheduled my shift differently
Quote from: Tomato on April 10, 2012, 07:08:00 AM
Hey, it's not MY fault he was able to chew through the bars while I was distracted by Ponies. Ya'll should have scheduled my shift differently
Is so Tomato's fault..this would've never happened if I was allowed to oversee the incarceration of Murs! But noooo, you all wanted to go with the cool kids instead.
Wait, wait, are you trying to imply that Tomato is cool? That's just nonsense.
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 10, 2012, 06:12:03 PM
Wait, wait, are you trying to imply that Tomato is cool? That's just nonsense.
Noooo...was implying htat you blokes had to go with what you people call the "cooler" answer...which is whoever employed tomato to watch the cage....and proved the cage...I would've never kept Murs in just a cage...too weak....but of course, I'm no the pretty, happy, user-friendly answer that you guys were looking for...
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 10, 2012, 06:12:03 PM
Wait, wait, are you trying to imply that Tomato is cool? That's just nonsense.
Agreed. Neither one of you has any right to decide what "cool" is for anyone else, even if it does happen to be right.
Quote from: Tomato on April 10, 2012, 06:43:02 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 10, 2012, 06:12:03 PM
Wait, wait, are you trying to imply that Tomato is cool? That's just nonsense.
Agreed. Neither one of you has any right to decide what "cool" is for anyone else, even if it does happen to be right.
Mato...I think you need to re-read those posts...cause I said most defiently that cool was not right...it was wrong!
Quote from: Tomato on April 04, 2012, 03:21:04 AM
Syn mentioned something about being sick like, a month ago, then vanished. Obviously he died from swine flu.
not quite :P
I do fully plan on finishing, just been a little hard arranging time between my daughter attending dance competitions, doing some SL work for monies, and adjusting to my depressing new gluten / dairy free lifestyle :(
Loosecollecter's been finishing up the last few commissions, so if anyone was still interested in this, the deadline is probably going to be the end of this year.
Well, if any of you have seen my skin thread, it should probably be obvious by now but... I'm ending the contest a bit early. I figure by now, anyone who was ever going to design something for this probably has, so I'm just going to get on with it and announce a definitive winner:
Cyber Burn, you win teh Aquaganger contest!
I'll be posting my full thoughts on all the designs in a moment, but I just wanted to get this posted BEFORE I spend 3 hours typing them up.
Ok, going down the list from first design posted to last:
Tomato: (Yes, I'm critiquing my own submissions. Deal.)
Spoiler
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5936/atlantean.jpg)
Mk, I'm just going to ignore my first design offhand... I was trying to be more military-ish and grim like the flashpoint Aquaman here, and it just ended up looking boring.
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1025/barracuda.gif)
This one was far better in terms of design, but it honestly looks more like an Elseworlds Aquaman then it does an Anti-Aquaman. I'd be ok with it if no one else had posted anything, but with such better designs competing, it just fell flat.
Spoiler
(http://s7.postimage.org/y0aeth3nb/flame_man.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/y0aeth3nb/)(http://s16.postimage.org/z5keuav8x/maelstrom.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/z5keuav8x/)(http://s18.postimage.org/g6hzl5jgl/maelstrom_black.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/g6hzl5jgl/)(http://s18.postimage.org/obwx2rtud/maelstrom_colour.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/obwx2rtud/)
These ones were very hard to judge for me, because there's actually nothing wrong with any of them. The ideas are fun and creative, the costumes are visually interesting, and they're generally good drawings. The only "problem" with them was just that Nait and I just had/have very different ideas for what type of character Aquaganger was. I was looking for something more conservative... a character with a similar, though not exact, power set, and with an outfit that looks like it could have been made by the same guy in a different circumstance. Nait was trying to be really creative, trying to push the boundaries... and while he wasn't wrong, it's just not what I wanted.
Sadly, at the end of the day, the intent of this was to create a design that fit with the design and mythology of the other Crime Syndicate members, and none of these designs really fit that criteria.
Spoiler
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/Cyber_Burn_33/CSA_The_Aquatic_Final.jpg)
And now we have the design that ultimately won this little contest. And it is a weird choice, admittedly... you've got nait doing absolutely brilliant drawings at the start of the thread, and John doing some sweet poser thread toward the end. But this design struck me right from the time Cyber first posted it, for many of the same reasons Nait's did not. Here was a design that stayed true to Aquaman's basic look and color scheme, had elements of Atlantean/greek/roman culture, but that also didn't just feel like an elseworlds costume or a cheap knock off. And while it may not have been the best from a technical "this is amazing skinwork/artwork/poserwork" point of view, the contest was about the design.
Spoiler
(http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx264/synthos84/aquamanredblocking.jpg)
This was a tough one to judge, because by all rights, it should have been the winning design. Where Cyber incorporated some interesting greek/roman design elements into his design, Syn took those greek/roman influences and perfected them. And when it comes to the skin I'm going to have the figure based on, it's primarily based on this design.
The only issue with this design, and it's what ended up disqualifying it, was that Syn never actually completed it. And while it might still be slightly better then Cyber's, Cyber Burn and all the other contestants put the work and time in and gave one or multiple finished designs. And it would not be fair to any of them to choose a design that was incomplete.
Spoiler
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/066/8/4/mordred_close_by_kevmann-d4s1e5t.jpg)(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/088/1/2/barbarian_mordred_by_kevmann-d4ucwge.jpg)
I apologize in advance for this one in advance, it's going to be a bit of a rant.
Whereas I can honestly say that I had no issues with Nait's designs despite being in a completely different place then he was, John's designs have some pretty serious flaws. Where Nait's designs tended to take a more liberal stance with Aquaganger then I was looking for, John's designs tended to be more conservative and... not boring, exactly, but not particularly unique either. Instead of building on some really interesting ideas with Aquaganger being a sorceror and all the cool ideas he presented in his Aquaganger bios, the first design just looked like something Aquaman would have worn in a comic from the early 90s (right before he became Captain Hook-man).
The second design, however, is worse, and it's probably the one I like least in the entire thread (outside of the official ones, obvsly). John added a few pieces of armor in the belt and helmet, which only served to underline the fact that he'd refused to add any sort of visual detail to the chest area. Now, John insists that he doesn't think a swimmer should wear a shirt/cloak/whatever... which is not only silly (yes, most professional male swimmers don't wear tops, but some do, and there is a legitimate purpose for wearing something to protect your heart and lungs when you're the barbarian king of a nation) but also willfully ignores that there are about 50 other things that could have been done to keep the design interesting without giving him a shirt, some of which I even tried to point out (Like Aqualad's tattoos). Instead, we have this black hole of a design, which has these interesting pieces in the helmet and belt, but they don't work properly because there is nothing on the chest or shoulders to tie the two together. It just sucks the viewer's eyes back to that bare chest, and unfortunately there's nothing there to look at.
Well, i guess I should be happy I didn't enter my version in...that way I wouldn't be torn a new one by tomato! Jking, of course.
It means a lot that you appreciate the work that I put into this creation, 'Mato. I will say, that since I'm not an artist, execution of my skins will always be lacking, that's why I always include a wiremap with my skopes, so that other skinners will hopefully give them better skins. That said, it's a shame Syn didn't finish his, I really expected him to take the winning position in this contest. His design was very well implemented.
Well, like I said, it might very well have won if he had finished it, though I'd have had a very hard time making a final decision. While Syn's design is better, you deserved the win more... Syn doesn't really need me to tell him he's a good artist, he's been around longer then I have. Had it really come down to it, I might have worked out something with him behind the scenes so you either got a joint win or something akin to that.
While it's obvious me and Tomato have very, very, different views about art I have to say CB's take was great and I'm happy he's receiving a well deserved praise.
AAArrrghhh ive lost!!! no really, this was a nice thread, and CB have done a very intersesting design, i like very much the idea of the helmet :thumbup::thumbup:. And is good to see tomato have found what he really search for the action figure .
i want to congratulate with Syn and Jhon to for the good works ! :thumbup:
and last but not least even the vegetable head himself have evolved some nice designs :P
This was a fun thread, I hope to see more like it, maybe in the skins forum something could be started. I don't know, I'm just rambling now. I'll stop now.
Nice designs everyone! :thumbup:
Now I'll stop rambling.
Quote from: Cyber Burn on October 05, 2012, 01:07:13 AM
This was a fun thread, I hope to see more like it, maybe in the skins forum something could be started. I don't know, I'm just rambling now. I'll stop now.
Nice designs everyone! :thumbup:
Now I'll stop rambling.
I was thinking of something similar, actually. meant to pm some people about it, never got around to it.
Quote from: Tomato on October 05, 2012, 01:15:00 AM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on October 05, 2012, 01:07:13 AM
This was a fun thread, I hope to see more like it, maybe in the skins forum something could be started. I don't know, I'm just rambling now. I'll stop now.
Nice designs everyone! :thumbup:
Now I'll stop rambling.
I was thinking of something similar, actually. meant to pm some people about it, never got around to it.
Even though i think there's little chance that people will be interested in this, i think it's worth a try to let people know what you have in mind.
As they say, you'll never know unless...
Quote from: Outcast on October 07, 2012, 04:41:31 PM
Quote from: Tomato on October 05, 2012, 01:15:00 AM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on October 05, 2012, 01:07:13 AM
This was a fun thread, I hope to see more like it, maybe in the skins forum something could be started. I don't know, I'm just rambling now. I'll stop now.
Nice designs everyone! :thumbup:
Now I'll stop rambling.
I was thinking of something similar, actually. meant to pm some people about it, never got around to it.
Even though i think there's little chance that people will be interested in this, i think it's worth a try to let people know what you have in mind.
As they say, you'll never know unless...
I don't know if I currently have the same level of energy or enthusiasm to put into another project, as I did with this, but I'd at least be willing to make an attempt at the design stage.