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Community Forums => Comics => Topic started by: BentonGrey on May 03, 2023, 04:40:11 AM

Title: Comics for Marvel Movies Class
Post by: BentonGrey on May 03, 2023, 04:40:11 AM
Howdy folks, I'm popping back in for a moment to share something cool and ask for the community's help!  I'm teaching one of my dream classes next semester, "The Marvel Cinematic Universe and Modern Mythologies," and I'm designing it this summer.  I'd love to have the community's input on what supplemental materials to use.  The basic concept is exploring the metanarrative of The Infinity Saga of the MCU as a modern iteration of the mythic stories we've been telling for as long as humans have been around.  I'm going to have my students watch the films out of class (we'll do roughly one a week), and we'll have a couple of books that will provide some extra context.  The chief text will be The Hero with a Thousand Faces, and we'll focus on archetypalism and mythic heroes.  I'm also planning on having them read a bit of the actual myths, like some stories about Thor and Achilles, etc.

The reason I'm posting this, though (other than to share my cool news!), is that I'm going to assign a few comics to coordinate with each movie and give students points of contact and comparison.  I'm looking to give them books that inspired the films or that have important characters or themes in common, or sometimes just particularly good stories for the characters.  For each first film, I'll probably give them the first issue of the character/team, and in general I'll assign a few issues per film.  I can't go too crazy with this, as there will be other reading assigned, in addition to the films themselves. 

Oh!  I almost forgot one of the coolest things!  As a hail Mary, I randomly decided to reach out to some of the creators of these stories, to see if they would be willing to talk to my class.  I was astonished I was able to contact some of them in the first place, but even cooler, Walt Simonson has agreed to Zoom in and talk to my class when we read some of his Thor stories!!!

Anyway, here's my list: I've got a set of possibilities sketched out, but I'd love to hear y'all's thoughts and get your feedback on the plan.  I don't have time to do all the films in the Infinity Saga, so I've had to make some cuts, though I can hit most of them, and I've tried to cut out the films that are least important to the metanarrative. 

So, here's what I've got.  What do y'all think?


Title: Re: Comics for Marvel Movies Class
Post by: SickAlice on May 03, 2023, 01:13:35 PM
Just seeing it and waking up (it's been one of those weeks) my immediate thought is to illustrate metanarratives exclusively on mythical stories do to both the comics and based films being a hodgepodge of mythical tales, religious in real life, the sciences, particularly metaphysics speaking of and more. Superhero stories and very much they and the continuities came into being are like someone took every popular story and concept and mixed in a bowl then figured how all of these things would interact. An easy example is superhero canons typically depicted pantheons of deities, going way past the norm in this regard. That too always abstract concepts and all the confines of a defined as imaginary world within our own subconscious, a reflection rather as opposed to what we think is on the outside of it (the characters and their alter egos representing aspects of the human condition in a metaphoric sense including faith). Another easy get is that in superhero canons mystical, spiritual and science are defined is different perceptions of the same exact thing. It is the thing above all else that makes superhero canon stand out among others.

Else off the top of my head and just waking up, Thor is obviously easy and you know what mythology that stems from. And if we said Norse it would be wrong because it stems from Pantheons and the interactions between. And that in itself sets the stage for the rest of the Marvel Universe, at least traditionally and can be cross applied therefore to everything else. Infinity Gauntlet and maybe more Thanos Quest really puts it all one place. As does the less spoken of Chaos War at least in regards of acting as a field guide of how various mythical and more incarnations are positioned in the Marvel canon. And while on the subject, Eternals as you are missing is easily one the most laden in being a metaphor for classic mythology, the comics more so depending on the writer. Maybe even as a bridge of sorts between the distinct metanarratives. Else as it was brought up Infinity Crusade is directly this, a meeting of mythological and religious aspects. The Goddess presents herself as an example of whichever faith is followed by whichever character in this sense and their spiritual energy becomes the subject at hand.

Iron Man typically is within the Norse fiction though skitters to Asian mythology (over into the worlds of Iron Fist, Shang-Chi). Captain America slides into the Norse mythology as well and that is of course due to history where the Nazi movement was very tied to that ideology and it's symbolism, them and their ideals being his chief antagonist are represented often directly. Black Panther to mythology found in the African continent, it seems sort of a mix and takes deeper research (I have not read the volumes of those beliefs in my lifetime to be able to put my finger on what exactly writers drew from, sorry). Shang-Chi, well best not to leave this one out because it is glaringly tied to Asian mythology. Especially the film.

Dr Strange and the second film is the better option imo in this case (the first does explore Tibetan lore but more so hard metaphysics) and this brand is itself maybe is stronger in exploring mythologies than most, especially the comics. It's a thing were could take your pick of anything in the comics. "Mystic arts", right in the title and everything I've ever seen from Strange albiet when he is a support of a team draws directly from one mythology or another, all mixed together as it were.

I would suggest perhaps exploring the streaming shows, it does appear going to intersect with the films. Moon Knight and Ms. Marvel are clearly easy gets though Loki and WandaVision do not shy away from it either if you know lore and can recognize them in those bodies of work (hence Strange 2 also being such a glaring example).

I note on the side Native American mythology, which I've studied a bit of is represented in a different way in the Marvel comics where it seems to mostly stand alone in it's own pocket rather than part of the entire mechanism in play. Where it is absent in the MCU canon. X-Men more heavily seems to illustrate this (though Dr Strange depending, it his world after all) than most brands.

Else my mind goes back to examples that are not just saying it bluntly but rather are metaphors for one well known mythology or another. Hercules comes to mind for blunt as during the same era as Chaos War it was suggested that popular superheroes were incarnations of well known deities.

Last point I can scrape is Spider-Man and "Verse" as the family brand has become is very blunt about mythology and religion being a mix thereof. Everything from Christianity, Mesopotamian/Akkadian (Example: Ereshkigal), Kwaku Anansi derives from multiple lore and is a blunt representation, Haitian Voodoo (Kraven, directly shown in Last Hunt, Dr Strange also explores at times and of course Brother Voodoo is a direct example), Mochica (Example: Ai Apaec), Totems (well that's easy enough), Kaine (even easier) and so it goes.

Ant-Man I sort don't address because it's mostly removed from all this, especially the films. Quantumania is mostly derived from Kang War/Dynasty, heavily from the parts where Wasp was central to the story and much of that is more an illustration of historical empire in real life than any sort of mythologies. Ant-man stories generally center around science, obviously Ultron was early imaginings on the potential benefits and perils associated with AI (Babbage/Lovelace).

I suppose in searching than the easiest way I think is to look up mythological names and references and add keywords "Marvel Comics" and you will hard pressed to not come up with examples. Aside wiki's, Marvunapp when you stand above it is a literal run-down of all this and the connections therein and ComicBookReligion is a database of different beliefs, in this case of course not just belief but it is shown to actually in their stories and examples are given of where they intersect.

Hope any of this helps you lock in what you are looking for. And I apologize but when you say mythology in superhero canon, especially Marvel, that is vast subject, almost too many examples to count. Metaphor especially is where to look rather than blunt examples imo.
Title: Re: Comics for Marvel Movies Class
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 03, 2023, 02:13:44 PM
For Black Panther the obvious one would be Fantastic Four #52-53. The movie takes some very broad inspiration from the Marvel Knights series. Which really is a problem with all of them,as you can't really point to an issue and say they adapted that.

Avengers leans heavily on The Ultimates,there is no getting around that. I do have a soft spot for it,but it's very much a product of it ,post 9/11, time.

GOTG- The Abnett and Lanning series. That volume 2 IIRC.

Thor Ragnarok - Planet Hulk,I guess?

ON HEROES, HERO WORSHIP, and the HEROIC in HISTORY - Thomas Carlyle

Title: Re: Comics for Marvel Movies Class
Post by: SickAlice on May 03, 2023, 04:47:19 PM
Thinking now (between errands) how Marvel's 2099 is a twist in that the "present", which itself is mythology driven eventually becomes the very mythology itself driving the future populace. That's rather a tricky play now that I think about it.
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