DCUG - Canceled

[billdamn22]

Why is this even still happening? This discussion/debate is doing nothing but hurting this community as a whole. It is demoralizing.
As a skinner who is not as popular as C6, AA or even IPS. I do not feel slighted by this in any way. So before becoming the voice of the voiceless......why not check with some of us first. You know.... for permission....

[Vertex]

Bill that's just it.. personally I WANT that old agreement gotten rid of or changed.. but I don't agree that just allowing those people's work he did decide to use to vote.. is a fair way to change a rule that applies to everyone.

[billdamn22]

Bill that's just it.. personally I WANT that old agreement gotten rid of or changed.. but I don't agree that just allowing those people's work he did decide to use to vote.. is a fair way to change a rule that applies to everyone.

I would agree with that statement.

[BentonGrey]

what compromise do you suggest? that we allow him to only screw us over a little bit?

you know what... i'm just going to say what everyone knows and doesn't want to admit.

we ALL love c6. BUT most of us don't care for the cult following his work has earned though (and it's not his fault). but the fact remains people justifiably love his work. when people request characters, their preference 90% of the time is it is a c6 skin or something that is close to it (like AAs style or my own) for consistency with their collections. and i'm also guilty of this.

if you create a 30 character mod with one artists work - fine no problem it's only 30 characters. BUT, if you create a content torrent or mod as sweeping in scope as this (he uses about 50 of the 407 included characters in his mod), using primarily c6 skins as benton has done and release it, it will result in less people asking for characters in the requests section of the forum and most people will be satisfied with the great c6 skins they have - they will never need to ask for replacements or alternatives. in the long run that means people like cyberburn and laughing paradox may never find their stride because their work will never be given as an option for a request.

sure there are exceptions. but generally speaking this is how it is. why do you think benton used ONLY c6 skins where he could.

i AM NOT alone, you ALL KNOW this is the truth.

this arguement isn't for ME? you think i dont have better things to do with MY time? people know my work already. i skin for my portfolio and the fans i do have. this arguement is for every skinner in our community who's work just isn't that good yet. at least if people are still downloading their work they can feel some appreciation when their stuff IS offered in that request. but if this mod comes out and it becomes the defacto of content there's gonna be a lot less opportunities to have their work offered in requests.

so go ahead... villify me some more. i'm SUCH a bad guy because i'm trying to ensure that people like laughing paradox and cyberburn get some attention.

FigureFan: iirc from conversations you and i had at the time, you were one of the people that retired from skinning a few years ago because you weren't getting the kind of reception you wanted from the community because of c6's popularity at the time so exactly what are you defending?

Benton: it's called HUBRIS.

you made a mistake that will hurt people, not everyone immediately but everyone ultimately. rather than admit your mistake you're going to just play on people's sympathy here "oh i worked so hard, oh it's just one guy that has a problem with it." until the community caves in and says you know what benton we want it. all because you can't admit you're out of line including content you shouldn't have.

if you really care about 3 years of work just remove the content, release your ACTUAL MOD, and stop playing the community.

IPS, I have said everything that I have to say to you...no, that's not true, there are several hundred things I'd still very much like to say to you, but I am not so uncouth as to verbalize them.  You can call it a content torrent a thousand times, but it still won't make it true.  Enjoy the slow death of the community.

Vertex, thank you for your lack of understanding.

i guess that's the difference between you and i. you think i'm a villainous jerk whereas i just think you made a mistake you can't admit to. i have nothing to say to you, or about you, uncouth or not. ...but thanks for that higher road bit. - and i'm the dramatic one?

Hmm.

[AfghanAnt]

Enztead of cansaling thiz maude, y naught jus remove zee extraz? Yr haurd workz wood bee zeen 'n peepz wood stop bitching.

[bearded]

becuase it's become a matter of pride.
if the non existing rule is 'changed', then the bad ppl get to say, "yay!  rules changed to suit this guy!  anarchy wins!"
if BG backs down from his total creation, he loses face.
no matter what happens evil wins.

[AfghanAnt]

Evil winz? Wha r u talkin' about bearded?

[Vertex]

becuase it's become a matter of pride.
if the non existing rule is 'changed', then the bad ppl get to say, "yay!  rules changed to suit this guy!  anarchy wins!"
if BG backs down from his total creation, he loses face.
no matter what happens evil wins.

sigh thanks for that wonderfully impartial statement that this is a bad guy/benton matter.

[bearded]

BG is a good person.  i think we can all agree on that.  even the destoyers agree on that.  his intentions were good.  he is being brought down on a technicality.  a technicality on a rule that doesn't exist.  netiquette no one is aware of.  that alone is evil.
so a good person, with good intent, making a good thing, for the good of the community.
if you don't want to use the word evil, call it imposed anarchy.  i was told by someone i won't name, 'i wouldn't mind seeing this community destroyed'.  that is evil, in my view.
i don't think i can put it better.

[laughing paradox]

I have to say..

I understand your sentiment, IPS, about lesser skinners having unused skins.. but it's misplaced.

I've been a member of this site for a very long time and I have never been privy to these former formation of rules. Now I understand at the time it was debated and layed down as what's best for the community, but one should realize that things change over time and other people have joined the fold who have an equal voice. It's not a matter of "Let's bend the rules for Benton" but a matter of "Let's make some changes to better the community".

IPS, I know what you're trying to do is to look out for the 'little guy', but we don't need the help.. we have a voice and if we refrain to speak, it's because maybe we don't want to add to any drama. But that doesn't mean we don't have an opinion or that we are scared to say it. As Bill already said, and as I'm saying now, I support Benton's project and I don't feel slighted that someone's work like C6 is looked at over mine. I also don't hold any jealousy over it.. it actually inspires me to do better. Just recently I was finished up an Amalgam Hawkeye skin and looked at C6's extras and thought, "Damn, how does he do it?!", in admiration.

This place isn't meant for the small emotions. We don't need jealousy or anger or resentment.. I really see this group as a group that loves comics and loves this game. And I'd hate to be proven wrong on that front.

[AfghanAnt]

Honestly are you guys reading this anymore? It reads like the Big Book of Epic Fail and maybe we should put the book down and have a cookie or two and think about how much we really care about being right because right now everything in the forum (besides my amazing images) are:


I suggest we solve this with posting pictures of things that epic fail and compare it to both side then we would realize how epically we are all failing as a community and it's not even worth it.

[Figure Fan]

FigureFan: iirc from conversations you and i had at the time, you were one of the people that retired from skinning a few years ago because you weren't getting the kind of reception you wanted from the community because of c6's popularity at the time so exactly what are you defending?

WITHDRAWN

[AfghanAnt]

OMIGAWD DUDES!? Take that personal ish into the pms, seriously. This is about Bent's mod and whether he should release all the extra content. It is not a point the finger and make other people feel awkward.

I wish I was a mod and I would say:



I'm going to go eat some crab legs now, someone throw in bits of humor so this thread is not so serious business. I mean we don't even get this heated at work about the direction of the company.

[GogglesPizanno]

I wish i could get my house this heated.
Winter time is cold.

But let me add this to the discussion....

I'm a pepper.
They're a pepper.
He's a pepper.
She's a pepper.

Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too?

... Think about it....

[Johnny Patches]

WOW.. i seen alot of debates over big things and even  smaller ones, i was involed in a few.. but from my experence in my last debate over skopes (sorry to get off this topic..)  it threw alot of good skopers in to a silent mode. and if you guys havent noticed where are they all at now? ill tell you.. doing their own thing.. keeping to them selfs.. what im trying to say is that its going to get done with the comunity or without.. so id rather keep my kids in my back yard knowing what they are doing. then going in some other kids yard wondering..
we are like one big family we have are ups and downs, keep it together guys..
just an opinion

[deano_ue]

no matter what happens evil wins.

WHOOOHOOOO


In the more serious mood, i have spoke at length in the shack and in pm's with other artists and BG, and basically the pm i sent to bg was

honestly i said the same as vetrex. the whole mass pack/torent idea was settles as a no in the community a long time ago.

the whole thing is people in the thread are missing the point and turning it into a skinners vs mod debate which is shouldn't be. BG it is not an attack on you and you shouldn't take it as such.

the main thing that concerns me is that if it was just the missions and not the extra content then there would be no problem, but the idea of someone being able to just download your mod and just basically for the lack of a better term, cut and paste to make a new one.  you did it the right way and got the permission and kept the creators credits, sadly i don't see others doing the same and that's what bothers me.

the more i've thought about it, the more i'm leaning towards the artists side of my personality rather than the gamer. i've had more work stole be it photos, illustration or skins, and trust me now matter what the end result it is in simple terms a kick in the nut sack. now before anyone says i'm accusing BG of stealing, wind your neck in. I'm not. BG did the right thing and got permissions, would i prefer he used my versions of characters rather than c6's or aa. bloody straight i would. thats not a slight at the other creators i'm sure everyone would feel the same. my main point is what is to stop someone who doesn't give a crap about the artists coming along and using BG's work as a base and basically screwing over the artists along with bg by releasing a mod or pack with no credit.

with what has happened here it has made think about giving permission for my skins to be used in mods, i'm not saying no but i am considing adding guide lines that i would prefer to be consulted on what the modder has planned for my work, and thats for mainstream i'm still not sure where i stand on my originals. that may sound self important and stuck up, but sorry thats the way it is, if a magazine came to me and asked me for the rights to use my photos i would damn sure like to now what the magazine is planning and what it's content is, it's something my tutor told me in college, no matter what happens its something people have to remember how your work is used by yourself or other it is stil your work and all of the public reaction come back on you as the artist be it good or bad

and to channel some of what AA's one

Spoiler