DC Comics Reboot

[HarryTrotter]

Deadshot. Typo on my part.

Yeah,Streets of Gotham and Dini's Detective run. Everyone should read it. Apparently,Gotham used to be the Atlantic City of [ wherever the hell it is,somewhere around New York].

Yeah,Arkham Knight arc is kinda similar to Victim Syndicate,but with established villains. Since she thinks they are all just victims and good guys and Batman is a bully.

[Silver Shocker]

Yeah,Streets of Gotham and Dini's Detective run. Everyone should read it.

I should put it on the list.

Since she thinks they are all just victims and good guys and Batman is a bully.

Villains often think they are the heroes of their own stories.

"Y'all think you're the heroes of this little adventure, but you're not."
~Handsome Jack, the villain of Borderlands 2, and a total heel.

[HarryTrotter]

Well,she was raised by Arkham inmates and blames Batman for the death of her mother. Again,Jeremiah Arkham having a wife and her dying in a prison riot seems like a thing Batman should already know. Like,he was there.

[Silver Shocker]

Was that tying into an earlier story by a different writer or was it a retcon in that book? Because if it was the latter, then that's bizarrely sloppy on the part of that writer.

[HarryTrotter]

It came out of nowhere,afaik.

[Silver Shocker]

Speaking of recent Batman comics.....

I did a thing.

I'm been chipping away at some Batman/Joker/Scott Snyder material (fun fact, my plumber is named Scott Snyder  And the irony of that just creeped me out big time)

And I started reading Joker 80th Anniversary from about a year or so ago. And I read the Punchline story.

YIKES.

(And yes, I know Harley isn't with Joker, but I'm not using that crappy half-baked Punchline.)

I think you undersold it.

I don't know if Punchline is the worst villain I've ever seen in fiction, if not, she's close. She's just the worst. She's not fun or hammy, tragic, sympathetic or relatable, fascinating or creepy, or a challenge to the good guys in an interesting way, she's just gross and unpleasant. A witch's brew of almost every bad stereotype about young people in the internet age. She doesn't seem to be intolerant, but that's about it.  I could quote almost any line of dialogue from her initial 10-page story to demonstrate this, but this part in particular stands out:

*poisons the Dean with Joker toxin* "I got the recipe off the internet. I don't know if it's going to work right. You wouldn't believe how many chemicals it takes. I had a good teacher though. Don't fight it Dean Bob, I want it all on camera [takes picture or video recording with smartphone] [...] I've been testing with some of the homeless people under the overpass. You're the first that matters, though."

Well, as a lead in to a Batman crossover, (Joker War), it's a pretty rotten one. I sure hope she's better in that storyline than she is in this story. If she isn't it might be a rough time if I do read it.

Another extra large 9.99 book I picked up very recently is Generations Forged, the direct followup to Shattered Generations. I haven't read it yet, it'll be a long while, but I looked through it for fun, and it's a such a fun, colorful book celebrating the rich history of the DC universe. Two things in particular stood out:

Spoiler

1. Doctor Light (Kimiyo Hoshi) got a power up by absorbing a large amount of light-based or solar energy, and got a new costume that was a tweaked version of her old costume, but with the multi-pointed star swapped out for a more rounded white-hot sun. I like it quite a bit.

2. From the DC Wiki:

"The comic introduces the concept of "Linearverse" where non-powered heroes like Batman age far slowly than normal and went through all stories that happened in past comics, at least in some form."

Oh DC, never change. Fluctuate less in quality, please, for the love of Rao, but never change. Keep being gloriously insane in that very DC-Comics way. 

[Silver Shocker]

Batman: The Detective #1

I've been told this book was renamed from "Batman: The Dark Knight" to avoid confusion with the universe of The Dark Knight Returns. So instead we get the underwhelming sounding "The Detective" I think "Dark Detective" would have worked better.

It's especially unfortunate because while there is some Detective work, this book is rather similar to the Dark Knight Returns. I picked it up because of the hype and because I'm a fan of Tom Taylor as a writer, and I enjoyed it enough. Kubert's art is pretty good, but he's storytelling is a bit hard to follow in spots.

Spoiler

It's an alternate future where Batman's older and rustier, we have the second Knight (formerly Squire) and a new Squire, a gang of criminals wearing knockoff Batman outfits, Alfred's apparently passed away, and someone's apparently targeting people who have been rescued by Batman in the past, which Batman describes as trying "undue all the good Batman has done".

One thing I liked, Batman saying that his two fathers, Thomas Wayne and Alfred, were a doctor and a army field medic, respectfully, so he really dislikes it when criminals target hospitals. That's a nice touch. I like that, I'm surprised noone has added that before. Unless they have and I either didn't know or didn't remember.

One thing I wasn't super in love with is Gentleman Ghost. He's in this, but they've opted to redesign him to be more monstrous, in a similar manner to Croc, Bane, Clayface and Venom. Instead of just a dabber gent who is invisible except for his clothes, he looks like a White Martian-esque hulking monster with enormous fangs. That seemed a bit unnecessarily. He is called "Gentleman" Ghost after all. The action scene with him was a bit hard to follow as well.

In other news, a recent issue of the Rorshach miniseries featured Rorshach visiting Frank Miller - yes, really, Frank Miller) and saying he's a huge fan. Um, ok. That was random.

[HarryTrotter]

Apparently,its a meta take on the comic industry as viewed thru the lens of pirate dominated comics of the Watchmen world? But its also Tom King.

[Silver Shocker]

I'm not sure if that helps.

[HarryTrotter]

IDK,because its meta and Tom King thinks he's clever again? Apparently,there are also stand ins for Steve Ditko and Otto Binder. The more I look into it,the more bizarre it gets. (It's like Mark Hamills car accident of comics. Just admit thats why you wrote the wampa scene,George!)

[Silver Shocker]

"Hello, Mr. Millar. It is such an honor to meet you. I read Dark Fife over and over again, and I just think it's a masterpiece. It totally changed everything.

I know you probably don't want to be called a legend, 'cause I think that implies you're done, but I'm sorry, sir, you are a legend."

It kinda sounds to me like Tom King doesn't like the criticism Frank Millar gets in the modern era. That's my read, anyway.

[HarryTrotter]

Certainly sounds like King is a fan.

[Silver Shocker]

And now for something completely different:

Suicide Squad by John Ostrander finds a really clever way to reference/affectionately make fun of Marvel in a way that is a good moment in the story, because this is of course John Ostrander's Suicide Squad.

Waller: Ramban, you got anything up your sleeve?

Ramban: Magic doesn't work that way, Mrs. Waller! Each spell has to be prepared --!

Waller: Can you FAKE it?

Ramban [waving wand with energy crackling off it]: Drop your weapon, woman, or be prepared for the torments of Hell! By the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth--!

[distracts enemy long enough for them to dispatch them]

"'The Hoary Hosts of --' WHAT?"

Ramban: I read it in a comic when I was small.

[HarryTrotter]

Batman: Reptilian #1 and #2 This feels like something from 1996,and I don't mean that as a compliment. Thou 1996 Garth Ennis would do a better job,I would bet. And his take on Batman is...weird. From the overly theatrical way of talking (You wretched cur!) to stabbing a guy in broad daylight in front of a courthouse. So something is hurting the Bat-villains,but not killing them,because we couldn't just make this an Elseworld story.
-Riddler has been gutted!
-Is he dead?
-No, he's in the hospital.
So like, what are the stakes here? And the artwork...not Sharp's best. Barely his style, actually. It's this painted,muddy Bisley-like mess.

[Silver Shocker]

Sounds kinda like Neil Adams' Batman Odyssey. That had a Batman that talked and behaved strangely as well.

I've seen advertisements for Batman: Reptilian and it certainly seemed like an odd project. I guess their mentality is just that Batman books will always sell to a certain degree so they'll just change up the creative teams and let them do their thing, and hope that faithful readers will read them specifically for those creators.

[SickAlice]

Hey neighbors, hope all is well for everyone. Random here but I had to drop this. A friend was pointing out how unusual it was that the first two guys were so excited about the prospect of seeing a bird or plane (which instead turned out to be Superman of course). That led to a bit of a trivia argument which is "What are the names of the two guys who said 'It's a bird!' 'It's a plane!'" Something for anyone to chew over if they want.

[HarryTrotter]

Seriously,DC...what the hell?

https://mobile.twitter.com/SierraWhiskey9/status/1477369592372613120

[Randomdays]

Harry - that's why I keep to the old stuff. I bought all the Marvel comic DVD collections as they came out with the movies, the Mad Magazine, Archie and Star Trek ones, and even way back in the day before I knew better, the bootleg ebay collections of everything I could find.

I'll stick with the Silver and Bronze Age books I grew up with - almost 30 years worth of reading should keep me happy.

This is not my kind of story, and nothing I would ever want to get into. Even though I lean left in a lot of things, this is not for me.

[HarryTrotter]

Even though I lean left in a lot of things, this is not for me.

It's not a political issues. It's just the dumbest freaking thing DC ever did. And that's really saying something.

[SickAlice]

They're trying to give Superman edginess, pretty obvious by a few recent books. To that maybe my personal things but when it comes to certain subjects, defile and suicide these are things superhero comics should tread carefully if not at all. There's reasons that stuff was kept out of the cape books for spans, more than just younger readers. More often when they attempt this it falls very flat and ends up an insult to both the readers and to the crimes and real life victims themselves. "On occasion" it's been done appropriately but this is extremely rare in my opinion and otherwise seems a subject most talent is not tempered for. Likewise a thing like that is something that approached both as the focal point of a story itself and done only for good reason. A plot highlight is not a good reason. Mind you I take that stuff very seriously in rl so it resonates when fiction tries to use it with me.

[HarryTrotter]

I don't really see any reason for a story where Superman gets r*ped in prison. Other then DC continuing with their slow suicide.

[Randomdays]

Harry and SA - totally agree with what the both of you are saying, though SA said it better than I did

Comics and Action/Adventure movies or shows, based on comics or not, to me are escapism. It lets you get away a little from the real world stress, and go where the good guy wins in the end. I want to see the hero being heroic.

[GhostMachine]

Its a stupid idea, but....how is it even possible? Is he powerless during the story?

[SickAlice]

Oh yeah, involving Superman of all characters too for that matter Harry of course. And it tarnishes the image with the fandom, defile always does with comic characters though right there I think too because it is just not a subject to taken lightly and the reader knows this. And there it is as a plot device? But edgy, I mean they're just hammering that into the Superman books more and more lately. Is it a sales grab? Do they think maybe in these times the audience is becoming numb to certain things? Trying to grab the attention of movie industry for pick-up by making profound statements? I don't know but it's seriously bad form and a huge eyesore. I am glad only you brought it to attention, not really a subject covered by comic book news sites (if it isn't No Way Home related then again it doesn't exist lately lol) so I can make sure to not read that. To be vulnerable I've had my share of trauma and prefer to avoid material that triggers me as it were.

As for the state of DC right now. It's a hard take to give because it's in this transitionary almost alternate timeline type thing. There's good work being done. Like I'd say Order Of The World for example is great Vertigo style stuff if it weren't for the art getting a little too choppy at times. But well personally I just don't do "neo" comic books well. I overstate that I like the characters for what they are and that's what I show up for so when they become these alt-versions of what they traditionally are it doesn't sit well with me. So it's a personal thing. Noted the are saturated with Batbooks right now as Marvel is with X-books and it's usually a sing of issues with the market when they do that. It seems mostly like they're trying to throw whatever at the wall and see what sticks here before a likely in due time overhaul that brings the characters back to their roots as usual.

[HarryTrotter]

Well,comic book news sites haven't actually reported about comicbooks in years.

As for how well DC is doing... probably not that great considering the last 2 years. I mean,the whole industry is not doing well.

[SickAlice]

Sadly it goes without saying about the industry. Well, yeah everything. I'm weathering it myself still.

[HarryTrotter]

I used to have this sports-fan-like loyalty to DC (they were "my team" and all that),but now,like, what's the point? I recognize nothing of the universe I liked in the current one.

[SickAlice]

I was fortunate though it made relating to fandom difficult. Art has been art to me. Variety is the spice of life and so on. Music just music and I look at composition itself. Comic books just a medium. So on. I think having a background in art in media contributes to it. I do get brand loyalty and the why's behind it of course. I am more effected by nostalgia I think though. I want to read these books to read about the characters I came to care about. So when they try and reinvent them in whatever manner it's difficult for me to absorb. Maybe the mission that I assume to reach a new generation of audience is working for them, noting again I know for fact some of it has to do with trying to grab the attention of Hollywood though, I dunno. I just know it isn't the taste I pay for and love. Mind you again any company does put out stimulating books regardless though there's much to said for the mainstays.

[WyldFyre]

I haven't read anything since around the Final Crisis story arc. That being said, I think DC, and to an extent all comics, are playing to a specific audience. Like SA said - Hollywood. As successful as the MCU has been, DC just couldn't get it right. They've had a couple of good ones, but in general they have failed. I believe they also play to what they see as an expandable reader base. "Hey, look over here. We're tackling hard issues". They did it in the 70s and 80s with GL/GA. This turns a lot of fans off but expands the readership at the same time.  I've never been upset with them tackling hard issues (Roy Harper's drug addiction comes to mind), but I wish they would use some discretion as to which heroes and villains they choose to affect. I mean really, Superman? That's a lot of the reason I quit reading "newer" comics. The editors, writers and artists try to make themselves the arbiters of what is "relevant" without regard to characters or established history. Roy Harper made sense. This does not.

I normally don't comment in this thread, but I do check in. The Superman story just floored me. I can't believe ANY editor would have thought this was a good idea. There are a lot of heroes they could have used. Superman should not have been the one.

<sneaks out of thread since he doesn't really belong here>

[HarryTrotter]

Hey,people actually posting on the forum is a red letter day.

I do hate to repeat myself,but comic industry of today isn't really tackling issues. They just put the opinions they don't like in the mouth of the villains. Everything they put out is basically "Archie Bunker effect,the comic".