An Ode to Benton (IE: CSA Aquaman thread)

[Tomato]

As I've stated before, I'm really trying to keep most of my commentary out of this thread from now on (good and bad mind you), mostly because I felt like I was limiting the creativity by doing so. However, two things really nagged at me on an artistic level, and I'd be doing a disservice to John if I didn't mention them.

-This first one is something that's plagued both designs, but it's more noticeable with this one because of the new belt and helmet... that bare chest on Mordred just isn't visually interesting. In my mind, it's almost like a black hole or something... there's visually interesting bits of design work here, but it all just COMPLETELY STOPS with the bare chest. It wasn't a huge deal with the last design because, in the end, that design had more of a less-is-more look. But here it just looks like something was removed from the design.

Really, there's any number of things you could do to fix that... give him some kind of mystical looking vest, some goofy magical shoulderpads, a physics breaking collar (possibly with cape), whatever. On a purely if-it-were-me level, I'd actually keep the bare chest, but give him tattoos (either arcane symbols or something like the eels YJ's Aqualad has). Just play around with it, see what suits you best.

-The belt... I can understand why you went with it, but it is so obviously from a version of Thor that it hurts meh.

[John Jr.]

Just a matter of different points of view. I don't like the idea of cape/cloak/armor in a underwater character, just a quirk of mine. Similarly, I believe the bare chest works in a barbarian/underwater guy. The belt would be better if I could find a more generic one, but I can't make 3D items, just textures...So I used the one I found with minor edits.

[BentonGrey]

Hey, very nice JJ!  I like that helmet, and it definitely captures the "Aquaman the Barbarian" idea.  I understand your thinking on cloaks/armor.  I do think that tattoos would be interesting.  That might help lend him an even more savage appearance.  I like this design, though.

DJ!  Are we ever going to see a finished version of your earlier draft?

[Deaths Jester]

Hey, very nice JJ!  I like that helmet, and it definitely captures the "Aquaman the Barbarian" idea.  I understand your thinking on cloaks/armor.  I do think that tattoos would be interesting.  That might help lend him an even more savage appearance.  I like this design, though.

DJ!  Are we ever going to see a finished version of your earlier draft?

I never posted a draft or such in this thread or any threes for that matter...jeez,Benton what have you got against me lately?

[BentonGrey]

Haha, whoops!  Sorry DJ, that was UB.  My mistake!

[Tomato]

Syn mentioned something about being sick like, a month ago, then vanished. Obviously he died from swine flu.

[BentonGrey]

Hmm...more likely Murs gave him the pox.

[Cyber Burn]

Hmm...more likely Murs gave him the pox.

Who let Murs out of his cage???   

[Tomato]

Hey, it's not MY fault he was able to chew through the bars while I was distracted by Ponies. Ya'll should have scheduled my shift differently

[Deaths Jester]

Hey, it's not MY fault he was able to chew through the bars while I was distracted by Ponies. Ya'll should have scheduled my shift differently

Is so Tomato's fault..this would've never happened if I was allowed to oversee the incarceration of Murs!  But noooo, you all wanted to go with the cool kids instead.

[BentonGrey]

Wait, wait, are you trying to imply that Tomato is cool?  That's just nonsense.

[Deaths Jester]

Wait, wait, are you trying to imply that Tomato is cool?  That's just nonsense.

Noooo...was implying htat you blokes had to go with what you people call the "cooler" answer...which is whoever employed tomato to watch the cage....and proved the cage...I would've never kept Murs in just a cage...too weak....but of course, I'm no the pretty, happy, user-friendly answer that you guys were looking for...

[Tomato]

Wait, wait, are you trying to imply that Tomato is cool?  That's just nonsense.

Agreed. Neither one of you has any right to decide what "cool" is for anyone else, even if it does happen to be right.

[Deaths Jester]

Wait, wait, are you trying to imply that Tomato is cool?  That's just nonsense.

Agreed. Neither one of you has any right to decide what "cool" is for anyone else, even if it does happen to be right.

Mato...I think you need to re-read those posts...cause I said most defiently that cool was not right...it was wrong! 

[UnfluffyBunny]

Syn mentioned something about being sick like, a month ago, then vanished. Obviously he died from swine flu.

not quite
I do fully plan on finishing, just been a little hard arranging time between my daughter attending dance competitions, doing some SL work for monies, and adjusting to my depressing new gluten / dairy free lifestyle 

[Tomato]

Loosecollecter's been finishing up the last few commissions, so if anyone was still interested in this, the deadline is probably going to be the end of this year.

[Tomato]

Well, if any of you have seen my skin thread, it should probably be obvious by now but... I'm ending the contest a bit early. I figure by now, anyone who was ever going to design something for this probably has, so I'm just going to get on with it and announce a definitive winner:

Cyber Burn, you win teh Aquaganger contest!

I'll be posting my full thoughts on all the designs in a moment, but I just wanted to get this posted BEFORE I spend 3 hours typing them up.

[Tomato]

Ok, going down the list from first design posted to last:

Tomato: (Yes, I'm critiquing my own submissions. Deal.)

Spoiler

Mk, I'm just going to ignore my first design offhand... I was trying to be more military-ish and grim like the flashpoint Aquaman here, and it just ended up looking boring.


This one was far better in terms of design, but it honestly looks more like an Elseworlds Aquaman then it does an Anti-Aquaman. I'd be ok with it if no one else had posted anything, but with such better designs competing, it just fell flat.

Naitvalis:

Spoiler

These ones were very hard to judge for me, because there's actually nothing wrong with any of them. The ideas are fun and creative, the costumes are visually interesting, and they're generally good drawings. The only "problem" with them was just that Nait and I just had/have very different ideas for what type of character Aquaganger was. I was looking for something more conservative... a character with a similar, though not exact, power set, and with an outfit that looks like it could have been made by the same guy in a different circumstance. Nait was trying to be really creative, trying to push the boundaries... and while he wasn't wrong, it's just not what I wanted.

Sadly, at the end of the day, the intent of this was to create a design that fit with the design and mythology of the other Crime Syndicate members, and none of these designs really fit that criteria.

Cyber Burn:

Spoiler

And now we have the design that ultimately won this little contest. And it is a weird choice, admittedly... you've got nait doing absolutely brilliant drawings at the start of the thread, and John doing some sweet poser thread toward the end. But this design struck me right from the time Cyber first posted it, for many of the same reasons Nait's did not. Here was a design that stayed true to Aquaman's basic look and color scheme, had elements of Atlantean/greek/roman culture, but that also didn't just feel like an elseworlds costume or a cheap knock off. And while it may not have been the best from a technical "this is amazing skinwork/artwork/poserwork" point of view, the contest was about the design.

Syn:

Spoiler

This was a tough one to judge, because by all rights, it should have been the winning design. Where Cyber incorporated some interesting greek/roman design elements into his design, Syn took those greek/roman influences and perfected them. And when it comes to the skin I'm going to have the figure based on, it's primarily based on this design.

The only issue with this design, and it's what ended up disqualifying it, was that Syn never actually completed it. And while it might still be slightly better then Cyber's, Cyber Burn and all the other contestants put the work and time in and gave one or multiple finished designs. And it would not be fair to any of them to choose a design that was incomplete.

John:

Spoiler

I apologize in advance for this one in advance, it's going to be a bit of a rant.

Whereas I can honestly say that I had no issues with Nait's designs despite being in a completely different place then he was, John's designs have some pretty serious flaws.  Where Nait's designs tended to take a more liberal stance with Aquaganger then I was looking for, John's designs tended to be more conservative and... not boring, exactly, but not particularly unique either. Instead of building on some really interesting ideas with Aquaganger being a sorceror and all the cool ideas he presented in his Aquaganger bios, the first design just looked like something Aquaman would have worn in a comic from the early 90s (right before he became Captain Hook-man).

The second design, however, is worse, and it's probably the one I like least in the entire thread (outside of the official ones, obvsly). John added a few pieces of armor in the belt and helmet, which only served to underline the fact that he'd refused to add any sort of visual detail to the chest area. Now, John insists that he doesn't think a swimmer should wear a shirt/cloak/whatever... which is not only silly (yes, most professional male swimmers don't wear tops, but some do, and there is a legitimate purpose for wearing something to protect your heart and lungs when you're the barbarian king of a nation) but also willfully ignores that there are about 50 other things that could have been done to keep the design interesting without giving him a shirt, some of which I even tried to point out (Like Aqualad's tattoos). Instead, we have this black hole of a design, which has these interesting pieces in the helmet and belt, but they don't work properly because there is nothing on the chest or shoulders to tie the two together. It just sucks the viewer's eyes back to that bare chest, and unfortunately there's nothing there to look at.

[Deaths Jester]

Well, i guess I should be happy I didn't enter my version in...that way I wouldn't be torn a new one by tomato!  Jking, of course.

[Cyber Burn]

It means a lot that you appreciate the work that I put into this creation, 'Mato. I will say, that since I'm not an artist, execution of my skins will always be lacking, that's why I always include a wiremap with my skopes, so that other skinners will hopefully give them better skins. That said, it's a shame Syn didn't finish his, I really expected him to take the winning position in this contest. His design was very well implemented.

[Tomato]

Well, like I said, it might very well have won if he had finished it, though I'd have had a very hard time making a final decision. While Syn's design is better, you deserved the win more... Syn doesn't really need me to tell him he's a good artist, he's been around longer then I have. Had it really come down to it, I might have worked out something with him behind the scenes so you either got a joint win or something akin to that.

[John Jr.]

While it's obvious me and Tomato have very, very, different views about art I have to say CB's take was great and I'm happy he's receiving a well deserved praise.

[naitvalis]

AAArrrghhh ive lost!!! no really, this was a nice thread, and CB have done a very intersesting design, i like very much the idea of the helmet  . And is good to see tomato have found what he really search for the action figure .
i want to congratulate with  Syn and Jhon to for the good works !

and last but not least even the vegetable head himself have evolved some nice designs

[Cyber Burn]

This was a fun thread, I hope to see more like it, maybe in the skins forum something could be started. I don't know, I'm just rambling now. I'll stop now.

Nice designs everyone! 

Now I'll stop rambling.

[Tomato]

This was a fun thread, I hope to see more like it, maybe in the skins forum something could be started. I don't know, I'm just rambling now. I'll stop now.

Nice designs everyone! 

Now I'll stop rambling.

I was thinking of something similar, actually. meant to pm some people about it, never got around to it.

[Outcast]

This was a fun thread, I hope to see more like it, maybe in the skins forum something could be started. I don't know, I'm just rambling now. I'll stop now.

Nice designs everyone! 

Now I'll stop rambling.

I was thinking of something similar, actually. meant to pm some people about it, never got around to it.

Even though i think there's little chance that people will be interested in this, i think it's worth a try to let people know what you have in mind.
As they say, you'll never know unless...

[Cyber Burn]

This was a fun thread, I hope to see more like it, maybe in the skins forum something could be started. I don't know, I'm just rambling now. I'll stop now.

Nice designs everyone! 

Now I'll stop rambling.

I was thinking of something similar, actually. meant to pm some people about it, never got around to it.

Even though i think there's little chance that people will be interested in this, i think it's worth a try to let people know what you have in mind.
As they say, you'll never know unless...

I don't know if I currently have the same level of energy or enthusiasm to put into another project, as I did with this, but I'd at least be willing to make an attempt at the design stage.